What's A Narcissist?

[CZBZ]

What makes somebody A Narcissist?

With all the publicity narcissism is getting today, we might assume everybody’s a narcissist if they too self-confident or brag about their accomplisments. Even criteria defining NPD in the DSM-IV can be misleading. A few years ago, the average person had rarely even heard of the term. Now I’m hearing ‘narcissist’ on television shows, on the radio, in magazines, and in movies. But do people realize there’s more to being A Narcissist than than braggadocio?

I think most people are hearing the term and assuming they know what it means to be ‘a narcissist’ but if they’ve never encountered someone with NPD, their understanding is limited. They likely define a narcissist as an everyday jerk, a selfish pig, or any other pejorative people use when they’ve been treated unfairly.

What makes someone a narcissist instead of a jerk?

Most people coming to message boards realize something’s OFF in their relationship, though they can’t quite put their finger on it. So what brought you to WoN and how would you define the difference between an everyday jerk and someone who qualifies as ‘a narcissist’?

CZBZ

[SydneyFireworks]

Hi CZ and everyone

For me, the key differences between a garden variety jerk, and a true narcissist is that the true narcissist constantly employs rat cunning and lies through his teeth about anything and everything, either to get what he wants, or to avoid "trouble".

I have a lot of gay guy friends, several of whom are "narcissistic" according to the definition that most 'civilians' would use - they are vain, self-centred, and often somewhat selfish.  However, they don't habitually lie, nor do they employ rat cunning to get what they want.  And they're definitely not jerks - they're loyal, kind and loving friends so long as you can accept they'll take way longer to get ready for a night out than you will!!

The empathy thing is a biggie too - a true narcissist has no idea how to put himself in someone else's shoes, or to comprehend how another person is feeling.

So, for me those three things make the difference - lack of any empathy, lying for the sake of it, and using rat cunning to get what they want.

Hugs
Syd

[CZBZ]

"So, for me those three things make the difference - lack of any empathy, lying for the sake of it, and using rat cunning to get what they want." ~SydneyFireworks

In other words, there's no limit to what they'll do to others as long as they get what they want! I'd say that's key to narcissistic entitlement. If they want something and it requires exploiting other people, they will. Most of us have 'brakes' on how far we'll go to get what we want. Narcissists don't have the same brakes on hurting other people. If someone's in their way, they'll blame, shame and scapegoat that person in order to justify their behavior.

"The Ends Justify the Means" comes to mind here.

Even when narcissists know they're being cruel or abusive, they'll lie to themselves by saying, "You Deserved It!" That's how their minds twist reality around to justify unjustifiable behavior. And we're left wondering what-in-the-world we ever did to CAUSE them to act that way. The minute we start asking ourselves what 'we' did to deserve abuse, the narcissist's task is complete. Now the focus is OFF the narcissist's bad behavior and onto ourselves instead.

Mission Accomplished.


Hugs,
CZ

[honeybearII]

As I began to accept that there was something SERIOUSLY "off" about my exNH, and the extent of his lies and deceits became clearer to me, there were several things that made me realize he had some kind of personality disorder - far beyond the regular jerk variety who cheats on his wife and tries to cover it up.

1.  I felt like I had never seen behind the mask he wore for 32 years - he was THAT GOOD at keeping it firmly in place and had an uncanny ability to make me (and many others) believe in his Good Guy image.

2.  How carelessly and without much soul-searching he allowed his wife of all those years, the mother of his children, to walk out and he NEVER TRIED TO SEE ME AGAIN.  Oh, he would call on occasion, but it was mostly an attempt to make sure I was keeping my mouth shut so his image would stay intact.

3.  The shocking way he manipulated not only me, but many friends and people who truly cared about him and all because he was scared spitless that his image as Mr. Great Church Man would be sullied.  He didn't and DOESN'T care about anyone more than he cares about his self-image - a TOTALLY FALSE SELF IMAGE.

4.  The total lack of real bonding with people in his life who love him.  That includes wives, children, mistresses, good and true friends.  He can turn and walk away and never think about them again and never have a moment's regret at what he has thrown away over the years.  Totally cold and totally passionless.  I doubt he shed even a single tear over the breakup of our marriage. 

This is NOT normal behavior when people stop loving each other.  Many couples I know who broke up after a number of years stil have warm feelings for each other and are kind toward each other.  I have a good friend who divorced her husband due to his drinking and his abusive behavior when he was drunk.  But they remained friends, shared family stuff with their children, even traveled together sometimes.  When he was dying of cancer, Susan brought him into her home and took care of him until his death.  Can you ever, in this lifetime, imagining doing that for an ex-N??

Honey

[Doveflyte]

A total lack of empathy, feeling, or cognizance on any level that another is in pain or hurting whether that pain is caused emotionally or physically. As I began to grapple with trying to put into words N's behavior that was so unacceptable this is one I mentioned to several including physicians and therapists. If he didn't feel the pain himself it didn't exist and as for emotional pain he rarely showed any ability to even feel that himself. When his father died, or his mother had a stroke I saw his grief. When any of the children were hurt it came as anger towards me for either causing or failing to prevent the hurt and being shaken to the roots on his part: unable to make coherent decisions, unable to hear and understand what is being explained to him, even trying to control the patient's response to treatment by telling them what and how to respond.

Another term I had for him was 'god'. He descended upon us with his judgements or commands at any time totally oblivious of what we were doing at the time or what might have preceded the situation prior to his attention. He had an absolute right to be RIGHT at all times.

My heart quakes at even the thought of having to deal with him. The quaking is tremors of fear to be in his presence again for any length of time at all. I quickly deposit what ever our business is and leave as soon as possible.

[honeybearII]

He had an absolute right to be RIGHT at all times.

Dove, this is one of the most concise and dead-on definitions of an N yet.  Amen, girl.
Honey

[jenrussell2]

I found out a bit more about what makes a Narcissist.

Having been working for one, and was at one time his common law wife for a few years,   

Just today I was blamed for animals escaping from their pen this morning, because of his stupidity in not fixing fences on his own animals with wire, just baler twine. I just happened to feed them for him the day before, so its my fault the fence was down and they were missing.

Got blamed  today for a missing file that was printed out over a month ago that he claimed never to have seen it, even though we had along discussion about it at the time, that he doesn't remember and said never took place and that I made it all up and was lying, getting on his nerves, mouthing off, etc etc.

Got told today that now I am fired, because I argued with him about the file and should not have spoken out about it, That I have to remove anything that belongs to me in the office of the company that I helped him bring back from the verge of bankruptcy and never step foot in there again, even though I helped build the building the office is in.

Got told that he is now going away for two weeks in two days time and when he comes back he will have all the money he owes me with him.  ?????  Found a money tree somewhere??????   

No chance to discuss the problem, no chance to voice my opinion rationally, whilst being heard with open ears.  No chance to put any part of the blame on his attitude and laziness and poor memory and poor eyesight.   Nope A Narcissist puts the blame for everything on everyone else.  They are perfect.    


 

[eyes_up]

Narcissist are not perfect they are  emotionally defective. it would be my opinion that lack of empathy is at the base of of all other narcissistic attributes...meaning every thing stems from the lack of empathy . The stalk is lack of empathy and the leaves are entitlement, lies, superiority etc...

After reading CZ's posted article on psychopath it would seem fair to say that understanding this ability to lie  with determination and  intention is different in the head of a narc than how it is for non narc people.

I am smart enough to know how to lie with determination  and intension. This is self evident  in terms of my dealing with a narcissist- but lying isn't that simple for me. It is absolutely simple for a narcissist.

I don't think narcissists pretend to be victims...I think they really believe they are victims at those moments if not continually. I don't know that they hold the conditions of connecting with that assertation.

All of the characteristics evlve from the ability to only know one truth, thier own and at that it is a limited truth since they have only one shade of black to go by. Their palate is singular. While empathy offers an array of clors and patterns, nuances and differences..that which the narcissist does not experience. So to say  narcissist can not enjoy another persons happiness they con not enjoy or be happy with themselves either.

The cover or the illusion is built to fool both the narc and every one else.

I can feel good on an ego level when my efforts are rewarded with what I desire. But this doesn't meet with the expansive state of joy and connection. Being temporarily happy or contented by receiving an A on the final exam is a pleasing sensation. Receiving a D tells me I have more lessons to learn and perhaps disappointment in my efforts . Joy means I can observe both experiences  and the uniqueness of  journey and various emotional states.

With empath in tact I can then enjoy my beloved "A" on final examination. I know how it is to ace a final and we get together to celebrate the experience of making an "A". It is a collective celebration. The union of or alignment of emotional states.   

About my opinion that lack of empathy is a primary characteristic of narcissism ...

I do not think this is a decision a narcissists makes. It is like being born with out the four senses. It is a major defect Which turns into a disorder which I feel is a nice way of putting it.

Lack of empathy  cuts the narcissist off from human connection internally as well as externally.

Not all narcissists are after money and the power associated with money . there are narcissists that are sponging off of people , not paying and still remain in their head situated at superior position which leads me to another thought.

For all the women who provided funds for the male narcissist through school ...for all the women who assisted or did the main manufacturing for the narc become successful...for all the women who felt proud of this or at least a part of it since there efforts were needed, for all the narcissists who needed help by means the  back bone of a worthy woman there is the ultimate and non negotiable ending.

The narcissist can not live with the reality that any one other than him/herself has any sort of power because this illuminates the fact that is really feels powerless. Most humans have a hard time with this reality as it is. Yet for a narcissist it is even larger. It is larger because they do lack empathy and this means they lack connection t a vast universe where every one else is living. NOW, how to disprove the unfelt unexamined unknown territory that every one has dibs on but the narcissist ?

Emotions are are objects to a narcissist. Like a toaster that has four levels of heat. The narcissists manages the 4 levels of heat of his toaster but can not feel the heat.Heat is only experienced through attention not through a personal feeling on the skin. Other people inform the narcissist what the response and reaction is to level 4 or 1. this s information..not a felt sense , not a personal experience.

The toaster could be the employees of a large company or co workers at a doggy diner. The efforts and need to control others , control those that bring fourth the information. If the narc could do it himself then the empowerment would exist.

This is entirely important for it is the lack of self control The inability to develop self empowerment that propels the forces to control.  Human connection is non existent.  It is a flat palate. As if to say one cannot taste salt , bitter, sour or sweet ...only pepper so what happens is every thing is about pepper.

What is healthy is to be able to taste all  and deal with all. I may be uncomfortable with my own tendencies  to be more involved with tasting sweet. I may be involved in developing and furthering my taste for bitter or hot. BUT I can taste all flavors..my palate is broad and my experience is full of flavor. I create, communicate and empathize with other based on the same palate and awareness as to how I experience being alive. Narcs are cut off from the full experience but who would have known?

 The experieNce is narrow. One sensation...pepper and every thing orients around the pepper and reacts as pepper.

If I am on sweet mode or sour mode along comes the narcissist  with the pepper shaker.

The narcissist isn't stupid. the narcissist knows something else is going on that is not available to him or her self and this further creates the compulsion to obliterate what is not at his command or of choice - that which can not be accessed in terms of self  connective experiential sences.


Why else would  a narcissist live by the theme of "idealized" love. I mean that is all it can be but an imaginary component...a dream of a dream and then insufferably convince himself that he can create this for himself while destroying and defiling  other connection t love since this a power/empowerment the narc is lacking or permanently cut off from. A narcissist really hasn't a means to even enter the arena of love.But they enter the arena prepared for a bull fight.

The host is the medium. The host is the partner or other person who is able to experience the full palate. The narcissist needs this to feel he has  all the sensory perceptions that are in the mix of life...being human which belong to every one else. The fact that he really can not  and he needs the other person to some how temporarily recreate  this aspect being.

I would imagine that the narc experiences such as a hologram. All the visual and audio elements even the tactile sensations but never the whole and the invisibles of connection. So they move through anger and pain  (pepper)  ..their limited palate. This is where enmeshment works in quite nicely as well as  hatred & jealously of other.


It is one thing to deny or avoid an emotional self experience, such as anger and it is another state to simply not be able to access a variety of emotional experience with connection to being , self and other.

Looking back and seeing me and my needs to communicate on an empathetic level with a narcissist is in a way funny ..not like ROTFL! More like It just can not happen. the more I expect that it should happen the angrier the narcissist gets. for, if the truth comes out the narcissist would have to stand up and say...I can not do that. I don't know how to  but me asking, is like rubbing the narcissist nose in his or her lack of abilities / lack of awareness - DEFECTIVENESS.

The narcissist despises being defective so the main goal is to prove non defective and what fuels this devotion is pepper ( singular emotional climate, undeveloped and starving). Nothing more.

Narcissist are good at what they do because they only have one thing to manage. For all other folks things are coming into play with multiples of tensions and processing through various emotions, various senses and flavors all layering and creating a unique sense of being or existence. The narcissist is god at what they do since what they have to do is simple.It is not that a narcissist is smarter or more intelligent..it is that he only has to ever read one book. there is never sweet and sour at the same time. things never get complex like that.

If the narc is pepper and I am currently bitter then the narcs job is to prove that all that exist is pepper and demolish the bitter. The bitter or the absence of experiencing anything other than pepper is a reminder of the defect and this way it makes not only easy to devalue but absolutely necessary to do so.

Necessary in that being defective is not tolerated.

So, it is all about the cover ..the big mask so the defective or disorder remains unknown. First to the narcissist and then others as mirrors to reconfirm.

I will never forget driving down Howard Street in SF with the first narcissist. He had been spouting off about this great love connection thing he had seen in some young couple.

We were at the cornier of Howard and 5th a corner I knew well since i lived with an X empathetic BF there for some time.

S the narc was spouting abut this divine connection that he was looking for and I of course was unable to devise of provide because as we all know...I don't have it...I am defective.

Well, this was break through moment for me. As much as it hurt to not be receiving connection I was able to access that connection I had with past relationship and realize right there at the traffic light that I was available but that it was this other person that didn't know how easy it is ,how simple and ordinary it is to share love and experience EMPATHY . What I had been avoiding and that which had been carefully worked in order that I did avoid  looking at the narc as being the one without the ability to connect and stop taking to the posture of being the one who was unavailable.

Narcissism seems very simple to me once the the mind cluck is no longer in motion, after the fog has cleared and once I can access  whole experience of life and not just living through the word of the narcissist. 

So the equation is..my need to show and share the love connecting experience which became the need to PROVE since I was being told that i certainly didn't know any of this experience. Why Heck, the narcissist couldn't feel it and if the narc doesn't experience it ...it doesn't exist. Well Surprise surprise surprise.

eyes

[practicaljude]

I remember a huge turning point for me while healing and it was some time down the road before I realized this.  As it’s been discussed here, I woke up one day and realized he wasn’t playing games…this is who he is.  He manipulates and distorts because he believes he’s right.  All the arguments about who’s right and whose wrong…he was always right IN HIS EYES.  I’d like to save fresh bleeding N partners their time and energy to not argue but I wonder if it’s the process we have to go through.  Members would tell me to walk away but I couldn’t because I had not made the connection.  Now, whenever someone suggests something to me that’s totally unrealistic and they are serious about it, I leave it alone.
   
Now that I’m talking about this I just remembered something else.  N based a lot of a good relationship vs. a bad relationship on how much arguing went on.  Not only did he use this gage with me, but his past relationships also. He talked in depth about past girlfriends and when the "arguing started" he knew it was over.  His gage was distorted.  Any time I disagreed, he called it an argument.  If I were to get some grounded facts presented in a general, pleasant conversation, he’d call it an argument.  According to him, I argued constantly and I always wondered what the he** he was talking about.  Opening my mouth was called an argument.

Recently I read an article about N’s, refreshing my memory about N thinking.  Interesting to me, the article stated how they take the perceived arguing and use it as justification to cheat. It makes a lot of sense to me now.  If they feel the threat of not being adored, real or not, they move to the next person (or thing) quickly.  The perfect relationship to the N I fed for many years meant I would never disagree or have an independent thought.  He also hated it when I ran things past him.  Rather than wait till I was done talking, he’d say, “You’re not going to follow what I tell you so why ask me about it.”  Immediately the conversation went from the subject matter to…will she obey what I tell her?  He’d cut me off, discounting my thoughts, not allowing a general conversation. Now its easy to see most information I was running past him didn't fit into his distorted thinking and/or threatend his control.

Of course it was mean and smacked of “game playing.”  And, it was very intentional on his part to change the subject, lie, and, project, justify and rationalize.  But he didn’t stay awake at night to come up with plans of attack…it was natural.  It is who he is.
 
Jude 

[eyes_up]

"He talked in depth about past girlfriends and when the "arguing started" he knew it was over."

This is a key statement because what the narc is saying is taht as soon as things don't go smooth...narcs way...then it is over. S in fact he is telling his narc truth.

While you may be thinking an argument and disagreement is a natural part of relationship for the narcissist it is a means to an eNd. a disagreeable partner is no longer of use...no longer supply etc.

And YES it is easy to argue since speaking with a narcissist is confusing and doesn't  make sense.

[practicaljude]

Yes, Indeedee!  Those were the day to day puzzling things I dealt with, as everyone here has. The corker came just before I left, when I was on my way out the door and I asked questions, but then it was to see just how distorted his reality was.  And it scared the he** out of me.  He spoke very sure of himself; he spoke matter-of-factly.  He told me about the other women and how he used them and he also told me what he expected of them.  As he spoke, I saw myself in this and held my breath.  He presented the facts, real to him, and would say, “Well, everybody knows this is the way it should be.”  And, he’d say, “Just ask anybody.”  Oh sure…I’m going to tell everyone the most important part of sleeping with another woman was getting her to drive 50 miles…TO YOU.  And, the fact you had no feelings for her and mimicked what she wanted to hear is…”simply everybody knows is the way it should be.”  He presented his internet activity with no shame as presenting as a woman to befriend her and “learn what a woman really wants to hear…what she is lacking.”  It was insight into the mind of a predator and although I remained calm I prayed I’d leave there safely. 

I posted once upon a time how he laughed during a rape scene in a movie.  I didn’t move off the couch because I was paralyzed in fear of what I was observing.  Usually, he could contain his innermost thoughts, but the mask dropped.
Jude

[eyes_up]

Yes, Practicle Jude...I hear ya ...nearing the end I just started observing and listening and putting the puzzle together.
yep, it was frightening. i did ask questions. But I had gotten such an ear full through the years and I knew exactly what to do in order to just let it all just crawl and view the tragic and isolated head space of a narcissist.
I figured...no wonder I feel alone or lonely...I have been hanging out with an energy that has absolutely NO connection to anything but a fantasy world. ...completely separated and locked into a cell...speaking from that cell. To realize that I was trying ot make sence of that cage , bring life to it..plants and decorations.

To have to realize that reality..feel it ...was dreadful. That is the emotion when it all comes to a clear point ..DREAD.

As my therapist told me early on.."when around some one with a cold (sickness) you catch it". This made complete sense.

eyes

[CZBZ]

Several years out of the relationship, I now see how preposterous it was for me to spend my time arguing NONSENSE. Remember the old 12-step cliche: You can't argue sense with nonsense. Trying to tell someone who's HIGH on narcissistic supply that they're crazy, is about as useful as telling someone whose drunk that their thinking is screwed up. They don't believe ya and you'll feel even more powerless, inept and exhausted.

I see so many people repeating the same behavior as myself and realize how upside-down our world becomes when we feel responsible for teaching another adult about fidelity, commitment, or even forgiveness. If they haven't figured out yet how disrespectful and abusive it is to treat people like objects, we might as well save our breath and commit to forgiving ourselves for making mistakes. Mistakes that were based on false assumptions that all people were desireous of a trustworthy and intimate relationship.

You cannot teach anyone about the meaning of love. They already know it or they don't. And if they don't, drink some gater-aid and start running.

At least now, people are becoming aware that relationships are not necessarily two-sided---meaning shared power. Good-hearted people are easily misled if they assume their partner reciprocates the same compassion, empathy and commitment as themselves. Getting in is easy; it's getting out that's tough. And the aftermath usually includes a fair amount of self-blame as we struggle with our responsibility for having stayed in a narcissistic relationship. It's difficult knowing the difference between responsibility and self-blame but to me, if we lacked information about narcissistic relationships, we really couldn't have made a different choice. How can we blame ourselves for what we did not know?

What we do with ourselves post-narcissist IS our responsibility, though. I'm here to say it's gonna hurt a long, long time before ya feel better. But you will...you really will.

Hugs,
CZ

[Sadie Wu]

I was talking with a friend about this just the other day.....how there are days when I wished I could have left sooner....but most of the time I realize I stayed the amount of time I needed, until I was prepared to go, and I think that is important.  Post-N is not always an easy life, because once you have run into one, your life is never the same.  I think that there are people who have never dealt with or lived with an N who cannot really wrap their head around what an N really is.....like the original thread from CZ said here....what makes an N different than your run of the mill jerk.....but those of us who have known both, know all too well that there is a difference.  I think that once you have met one, it is easy to run scared....not just of them....but always doubting everyone, afraid you'll run into another one, and if you aren't careful, pretty soon you can "see an N around every corner."  Sometimes I feel blessed because I think I had enough of my ex-N, but left before I was so jaded that I have closed myself off to the world at large.

Especially if you have kids together, you never get all the way away from them, so there are parts of them that follow you, and haunt you, and continue to be a hassle in your life.  It is good if you are sure about leaving them when you do it....it makes the rest more bearable.  When I was with my N-ex husband, one thing I realized not too long into the relationship was his inability to have genuine empathy, or express genuine emotion.  He was a mimic.....always "acting" out emotion that he thought was appropriate in a situation....at least in a public situation....by following someone else's lead.  He avoided emotion-driven events like weddings, funerals, etc.....always feigning work and sending me by myself if he could get away with it.....I think it's because he was afraid his pretense would be discovered....that people would figure out that he never genuinely felt anything.......

I knew he always "stretched" the truth.....told a story bigger than it ever really was....that sort of thing.  But it wasn't until we were separated and divorced that I truly began to see to what lengths he could go without a conscience......and I think that is something that disguinshes an N from someone else.......Not only will they twist and distort the truth, or feel entitled.....but when I was married to my ex, I often excused that behavior, believing that he was too "dense" or lacked the empathy to realize what he was doing......I think it's important to understand that they do know what they are doing.....It is intentional manipulation.....often it is calculated manipulation.  The difference between an N and an ordinary person is that if a regular person did those things, they would likely feel guilt or remorse afterwards.......An N, lacking normal emotions, feels nothing......no love, no empathy, and no guilt to check their behavior.......

That is why they can use people, abuse people, lie, cheat, and morph themselves into different roles on a dime......because they never have to feel regret.......

A friend of mine once told me never to forget that my ex would always have the upper hand on me because he was "crafty" and I wasn't.....She said, "He will always win because you will be bumbling around armed with nothing but the truth, and his lack of respect for the truth or a conscience gives him boundless resources......"

That's when I truly began to understand that with an N you can't view things as "winning" or "losing".....you have to define them only as the kind of person you are going to choose to be......

I was watching the movie "Penelope" today.  I love that line at the end....."It's not the power of the curse, but the power that you give the curse".......Once you have met an N, that needs to be your motto......The curse has touched you, but you get to decide how much power you will give that curse over your life...........Never forget that although their goal is to render you powerless, they cannot do it unless you hand them the power to do so........

Sadie Wu

[jenrussell2]

A Narcissist is someone who invites you for supper, then says it was your decision to stay to eat, that he or she didn't care whether you came or not.

[Doveflyte]

A Narcissist is someone who invites you for supper, then says it was your decision to stay to eat, that he or she didn't care whether you came or not.

Oh my gosh, I have heard N say exactly that. Geesh. Maybe there is a programmed CD that runs in all their minds to replay and replay.

[Sadie Wu]

The narcissist not only invites you to dinner....once you get there he tells you that he is giving you the "pleasure" of cooking for you.....then he tells you what you have to cook.  While you are preparing the meal to his specifications, he is standing over your shoulder, telling you that you are following his orders wrong.  When he eats the meal, he tells you that it tastes like crap, and he could have prepared it much better himself.  After he is finished, he tells you it wasn't satisfying, and that it is your fault, because you prepared something he didn't want, and you should have known and done better.......and then when the evening is over, he saunters off, telling you that you were rotten company, and he didn't know why you came in the 1st place and ruined his evening by inviting yourself over..........That his time and energy is too "precious" to be bothered by the "likes of you"......now, that is a Narcissist..........(Not during the courting phase, of course......this would be after he has won you over and isn't worried about impressing you or public appearance anymore.....)

[jenrussell2]

Or he/she does cook the meal, which is usually leftovers, then lays on the couch and falls asleep for the rest of the visit.  Leading you to wonder why were you invited in the first place, until you go to leave of course, then suddenly they wake up to ask where you are going and why.  What can you say to that question. If you reply you are arguing, if you are honest you are arguining.   They are going to say what they think no matter what you do.  OOH, and don't forget to do the dishes before leaving because they did invite you over and give you a meal.....

 

[practicaljude]

A Narcissist is someone who invites you for supper, then says it was your decision to stay to eat, that he or she didn't care whether you came or not.

-

jen

.......and then when the evening is over, he saunters off, telling you that you were rotten company, and he didn't know why you came in the 1st place and ruined his evening by inviting yourself over

-

sadie

This brings back memories.  I'm laughing at the irony, here.  And they say it so straight-up, so matter-of-factly because they cannot connect to knowing how it feels to be on the recieving end of these statements...the entire experience is all about them.  This would get my head spinnin' and hurt, and the sneaky, insidious comments would plant doubt.  Such as...

"I can tell you don't watch many cooking shows, do you?"

"I don't usually buy my mushrooms at (common grocery store)"

When you finally sit down to eat..."I want to go out one of these nights and get some GOOD food"

"I invite you over and you fall asleep" (as you listened to him snore for the last half hour) and then..

"I was't sleeping"

"Did you wash that knife before you cut up the vegetables?"

"This is okay, but I really like the way (insert name) makes it."

"Don't worry about the dishes - you worry too much" (They'll be in the same spot the next time you visit)

When you discover he took another woman out to dinner and takes you nowhere recently  "I like to stay home - you're the party girl" or...

"I just need a night at home...I've been working too hard lately"

"This was your idea.  I really don't need all this food"

And, as you said (my favorite)..."You're the one who wanted to cook...you invited yourself"

 
Jude

[eyes_up]

"And they say it so straight-up, so matter-of-factly because they cannot connect to knowing how it feels to be on the recieving end of these statements." ~ JUde

YES but the funny thing is how would it be to ive a life not enjoying people company? that is the thing.

This reminds me of a moment when I told some old friend of mine how the narc wasa talking ot me, what he was saying ...She replied, Well, the why is he with you. If he isn't happy why doesn't he leave. I t just drew a blank for me. I men it sunk in , it made sense but it was so obvious...If you don't like me or enjoy me what the hell re you doing coming around or even staying.

Well, of course I know the answer now...so the narcs misery is about me and not the narc.

eyes

[honeybearII]

Eyes,  remember asking my husband that exact same thing, "If you were so miserable all those years, why the heck did you stay?"  He just shrugged his shoulders because that was the question that got to the heart of it.  He stayed because he WASN'T that miserable.  He also needs someone to project his unhappiness onto, and as long as we were willing to accept the Ns premise that his life is a mess because of US, why the heck would they bother leaving or figuring out that it is in THEM, not us?

Honey

[eyes_up]

Exactly Honey....that is exactly what i am saying. It is one thing to be pulled down because the other person is devaluing over and over and over but after a while I did ask...so why are you here? What is your purpose? And I did ask that question. Now do you think I got an answer. No way. then it was time to do the silent treatment. That was the kind of question that wasn't supposed to be asked. Finally on the moments of moments his reply is...I can't help what I am attracted to. Yah, like attracted to inflicting pain.Supposing that would be the truth.

eyes_up

[practicaljude]

Oh eyes..."silent treatment" - I'm surprized that isn't listed in the DSMIV criteria.  I'd never met anyone who could stay silent for so long.  I haven't since, either.

 
Jude

[eyes_up]

yep! Silent treatment. Took some time to figure that one out. Silent treatment meant for me that either my words were just way over board, not recognizing my voice. the stare came with the silence. This dead stare which left it up to my magination...whcih allowed every possible fear to surface and this was as easy trick to get the narc ot of atually responding to something tha was catching hm in the act of abuse. Took me a while to get this one. I was horrified by the stare tactic.

The silent treatment / stare is a tool tath if any one ever does it again it will be a matter of 1/2 of breath that I will be some place else.

I was on the edge of getting a small mirror and holding it up to the narc face as he began his ritual. But, I didn't because I sensed danger in that action.

It would have been the child in me that fell for the whole trip. That would have been something my father did and my response was that of a child...fearful and figuring there was something so wrong with me that it was unspeakable.

Now days I wouldn't put up with it. Speak up or move on.

The End

[practicaljude]

I found a short and sweet article about silent treatment.

http://emotional-verbal-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/emotional_abuse_is_mental_abuse

"Silent treatments are destructive forces in abusive relationships. Silence is a silent form of anger that says you do not exist. Abusers use this as a form of punishment."

As you said, silent treatment is horrifying.  I didn't understand it in the beginning and it leaves us to "fill in the blanks" which only creates more trauma.

 
Jude