Were you the brunt of Narcissistic Rage?

[CZBZ]

"For the narcissist, it's all about me, my needs, what I want. Such pathological narcissism, grandiosity or excessive selfishness is evident from early adulthood, and can be seen as a pervasive characterological defense against deep feelings of inferiority, helplessness, sadness, and unlovability stemming from certain infantile and childhood needs having not been adequately met. When this inflated persona is inevitably deflated by stressful life events such as divorce, rejection, abandonment, failure and loss, narcissistic rage is triggered, along with other long-buried emotions. The desire for revenge, retaliation, and the compulsive need to repay the hurt no matter what it takes is characteristic of narcissistic rage. These overwhelming emotional reactions are sometimes so severe as to engender or exacerbate what we diagnostically define as a major depressive episode, mania or even psychosis, causing significant impairment of perception, rationality, judgment and impulse control. In such debilitating, disorienting and dangerous states of mind, anything can happen." ~Dangerous States of Mind by Steven Diamond

Dear all,

I've been thinking about the distinctions between narcissistic rage and anger, especially since I've felt more anger the last few years than the sum total of my entire life. I finally got mad and stayed mad for longer than a day, which I consider to be major progress for a 'pleasing' personality such as mine. Perhaps many of you have also had difficulty getting angry when you should get angry, or sustaining your anger long enough to take appropriate self-protective action. Anger can be frightening if we haven't learned to manage it without betraying ourselves. But if we allow ourselves to feel our anger without reacting inappropriately, we can better understand the original feeling precipitating our anger. Like being disrespected. We might not know immediately that we’re being demeaned, but our first emotional response is anger. If we can pinpoint the original reason why we’re angry, we have a better chance of choosing a healthy response.

Familiarizing ourselves with anger is a challenge we face in the healing process---especially if we’ve silenced our anger for fear of the narcissist's retaliation. The double standard is that the narcissist can react angrily and we’re supposed to ‘take it’, or understand, or even forgive; but the reverse isn’t true. The angrier we become, the more the situation escalates. Overtime, we learn to repress our anger rather than risk the uncertainty of the narcissist’s retaliation. I wonder how many of us diffused the narcissist's rage instead of engaging because we knew, on an intuitive level, that we'd eventually back down? We knew at some point, we'd be more worried about the passengers on the bus than our widdle wounded ego.

When I get angry, I visualize myself as an old school bus loaded with passengers warning me to slow down. My kids are hanging on for dear life, my folks are shouting "Stop!", and my grandparents and Aunties are reminding me about unbridled anger refusing to yield right-of-way to oncoming traffic. Blind fury tends to miss seeing the stop signs. Maybe a rule I figured out in the N-relatioNship is that safety-first-school buses are no match for gas-guzzling race cars. Don't even try to keep up with 'em because you can't. Or you won't. Because you are focused on being a good driver, not winning a race or participating in a demolition derby to 'even the score'. Good bus drivers pay attention to Stop Signs and obey the law of their conscience.

How far will the narcissist go to Get Even?

“The combination of narcissism and insult led to exceptionally high levels of aggression toward the source of the insult. Neither form of self-regard affected displaced aggression, which was low in general. These findings contradict the popular view that low self-esteem causes aggression and point instead toward threatened egotism as an important cause...There is ample reason to suggest that narcissism could be associated with increased aggression, especially in response to insults or other negative evaluations. On theoretical and clinical grounds, Kernberg (1975) proposed that narcissism includes patterns of rage that began in response to parental rejection, and rejection by others during adulthood could reactivate that rage. Millon (1981) proposed, contrary to Kernberg's view, that narcissism stems from an individual having parents who overvalued him or her as a child and instilled an inflated sense of entitlement and deservingness, which clearly could generate rage whenever events fail to confirm this inflated sense. Such aggressive responses seem parallel to patterns of shame-based rage that have recently been demonstrated (Tangney, 1995; Tangney, Wagner, Fletcher, & Gramzow, 1992). Kernberg (1975) observed that narcissists seem inordinately sensitive to slight insults or criticism, and they are prone to react with hostility.” ~Threatened Egotism, Narcissism, Self-Esteem, and Direct and Displaced Aggresssion

Perceived threat (shame) + pathological narcissism (ego) = increased aggression (rage)

If we have been the recipient of the narcissist's rage, we might feel guilty about our reactionary anger---even when the situation calls for anger as a protective response. I think it's important to distinguish between RAGE and ANGER because they are frequently spoken of as one and the same. But they aren’t. This pdf article is a good start for defining the difference. It's only a couple of pages long but I found it useful:

"Frequently the underlying anger is related to a perceived loss of control over factors affecting our integrity—our beliefs and how we feel about ourselves. In some cases, the anger has to do with the inability to meet unrealistic expectations (our own or those who have expectations of us). Rage is a shame-based expression of that anger. Rage is the accumulation of unexpressed anger and perceived disrespectful transactions that after multiple “stuffings” finally flow to the surface. When we become enraged, usually there is the belief that someone is deliberately attempting to incite us to become angry. Within this ego-bruised state, we are convinced that trying to be reasonable will prove to be ineffective, and therefore we will need to “even the score” or methodically disarm the offending party." ~Crossing the Line by Jim Platt (pdf)

I usually think of my resistance to harm others, no matter how angry I might be, as ‘applying internal brakes’. Getting angry is similar to stepping on an accelerator and picking up speed (best used for a quick get-away!). Call me an old school bus with a load of passengers, but at some point, I apply the brakes to my aggressive instincts. Maybe empathy is the reason why I can only go so far before stopping myself. For normal folks, there's a certain point when we back down rather than cross a moral boundary and risk harming other people. How can an empathic person NOT consider the impact of their behavior on others? We know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of someone's anger.

Rather than discussing how to deal with our anger (and if you are not angry about being mistreated, manipulated, and disrespected, you might want to figure out why not), I'd like to talk about the narcissist's out-of-control rage: did you experience intermittent explosions; did you placate the N to keep from escalating his-or-her rage? Rage Attacks that probably put you on high alert that the narcissist was not in reality but was caught up in a freaky sort of time warp. You might have even realized you were no longer ‘real’ to the narcissist, but had been objectified as a recipient for his-or-her aggressive rage.

Narcissists not only lack empathy for the object of their aggression, they also feel justified to exact punishment, defending themselves from what they perceive to be a humiliating threat to their grandiose self-perceptions.

In keeping with the vehicular analogy, we might describe the narcissist as having a lead foot on the accelerator.

Full speed ahead.

No intention of applying the brakes.

No matter who they have to run down in order to win.

Even school buses.

Hugs all,
CZBZ

[NewWings4MeNow]

Hi CZ,

I'd like to speak to your important article.

XNMIL, therapist-from-h*ll (or, as d's male cousin -- local to XNMIL -- now calls her, "Psycho b*tch from h*ll", and he's 11), with her psycholingo used on me (and increasingly on d) before I had any education in This, I noticed through time would refer to ANYBODY's anger close to her as "rage".  There were no gradations.  I realized as the years went by that I was labeled as a trouble maker, a "WWIII" instigator, for expressing any rightful anger in her/their direction on any topic at all.  So I guess I held it in, subjugated it in the name of Getting Along During Family Occasions.  (Likely I did the same thing observing my parents' fights in front of others, until I went to college and started defending myself/fighting back.)  I stopped holding it in as XNH's MLC got worse and I realized I was irrelevant and being disrespected and demeaned without anybody sticking up for me.  At that point I lashed out to have my peace heard, in my own home, as I tried to take back my own power of position.  It didn't matter.

Yelling two or three sentences and leaving the room is completely different from what I saw come out of XNH, not knowing whether he was on drugs at any of those times or not though my therapist at the time suspected meth:  Chasing me, shaking fists in my face, getting in my face, blocking my way physically moving within a room -- all moves I'd never before seen from XNH.

And making me physically afraid of him for the very first time ever because I sensed imminence, The Gift of Fear.  And the physical sensation of being cornered, and not in play.

So I understand the differences that CZ references.

For me, one of the hardest parts of developing my core self-discipline to survive this has been to manage my own PTSD physical reactions when anything even remotely suggesting rage raises its head.  And THAT, I believe, is a combination of my experiences with XNH + XNH#1 + my father.  An ugly trio that has no place taking up valuable real estate in my head except to teach me valuable lessons that I go on and apply toward healthier responses and environments.

As we all write here, XNH's anger and rage outbursts accompanied littanies of "You're to blame for ...."  "You have to do ...." and threats as to what he'd do to me if I didn't do xyz to satisfy him that very second.  I'd never been yelled at like this before in my life, by any person at any time.  Why Does He Do That? ... Angry and Controlling Men ....

The only person I've ever RAGED against was my father, with a knife in my hand, at 19, to get him to stop his aggression against my mother (as I've written here before).  And I refused thereafter out of fear of my own reaction, and I refuse in perpetuity, to let it be who I am.

Human anger is normal.  It's one of our three primal emotions.  We have to experience it, live through it, put it somewhere, diffuse it/let it sputter out. 

I believe, as a woman, that once a man has created that level of fear in me, it takes a full-court press campaign of his doing cartwheels to earn my trust back until I feel safe with him.  And it's the pitiful, to-be-avoided man who doesn't simply get that this is his obligation to atone for the wrong he's done.  When a man makes zero attempt to do any of this, I'm outtathere.

Thank you, CZ.

NewWings4MeNow

[eyes_up]

The answer is YES...I did do the school bus when narcissistic rage put on the gas. I slowed way down swallowed my anger and backed off. Yes it was a time warp. Stuffing anger doesn't work to well. that energy does come out in strange ways such as injuring my self on s called accident. It disconnects me or distracts me from what I am doing...off kilter, so mistakes are made in a rush. Trying to press anger in creates  a  major problem.

I did not like my character smeared. why should i . I don't like being called names. Not because i believed I was really any of the things I was being called but because being around that energy that name calls is absolutely a destructive force. It isn't always about ego. Most of the time it was down to the core self protection. Like some one throwing knives and ducking to survive the blow.

I can recall haering the vvarious names I was called and knew at the time the narc was out of his mind...but not..that was his mind and that is the way it operates. I didn't know about projection at the time. had I known I would have fled sooner with an understanding of what was going on. Instead I tried to cope, deal , extinguish . even agree and then work on solving my problem to get out of the heat.

Something really grotesque  about investing time and energy drawing out  how horrible ad lame I was. I mean to have to sit in a cell and hear about it work it throgh and then only hear it again along with new and old one liners. It is like having a personal dictionary around...the kind I could open up to page 27 and read up o the history of how I am liar or cheater then there is always page 55 that screams I am a hypocrite.

finally when it is all connecting and the book has been published and the only one who is buying it is the narcissist. Well, that when the tme warp sets in BIG TIME.

"narcissism includes patterns of rage that began in response to parental rejection, and rejection by others during adulthood could reactivate that rage. Millon (1981) proposed, contrary to Kernberg's view, that narcissism stems from an individual having parents who overvalued him or her as a child and instilled an inflated sense of entitlement and deservingness, "

I say it is both. When parent over value a child  at the very same time they are not meeting the childs needs. It is a double combo. the parents over values the child they don't see the real child or the real needs. they are removed form the child as a person and instead the child is an object, a symbol instead of a real human. So I say mix these tow together. Knowing both narcissist parents this is how  I understand.

Over valuing is dehumanizing and if the over value is placed then so are all the criticism about who the child can not actually be  as in real but rather the acceptable profile and description the parents are teaching.

eyes

[Cornfield]

We argued a lot when we were young, but it never seemed to do any good to reason with my husband.  I just thought he was totally uneducated and needed to have everything explained to him.
We would go out to dinner and he would get upset at my asking questions about how on earth we were going to be able to manage our horrific farm debt, as he seemed to enjoy the challenge.  In fact he once told me he loved borrowing money to see if he could work hard enough to earn enough to pay it back.  It was a game to him.  At dinner, when pinned down with a direct question he couldn't answer, he would tell me if I didn't stop he would leave and move to Wyoming.  The first time I was so surprised at his childish reply I dropped the conversation.  The second time he made the threat, I said "do me a favor.  Don't threaten me, just move to Wyoming by yourself.  It's too cold for me."  He wasn't embarrassed by my reply.

So he looked for new ways to threaten me into silence.  Once I cooked broiled fish for dinner knowing that he preferred it battered and fried, but I was attempting to cut down on the work and the calories.  He came in tired from work, and I began listing all my problems and complaints too soon in the conversation.  I was desparate with attempting to manage the farm in his constant absence while he managed the retail business we owned.
He took a couple of bites of food, jumped up and went into a verbal rage, ran out of the kitchen, jumped in his pickup and spun off.  I laughed at him and cleaned up.
The next time he went into a rage over a few melon seeds in his cantaloupe, I laughed in his face.  He never went into a rage at mealtime again. 
In retrospect, I think he learned his demeaning behavior from his step-grandfather whose culture was different than the rest of our families.  No one else in his family or mine would ever complain over a seed in a cantaloups and live to tell about it.  But I never figured out why he wanted to run off to Wyoming, except he loved to dress in western clothes and wear western Wellington boots.  Once he came home from  Colorado after a business meeting and stepped off the plane in a fitted, belted western suit that was too small on him and looked absolutely rediculous.  I didn't recognize him at first and was stunned at his poor choice.  He was trying to assume an image that didn't fit a short, German, short necked, full bellied middle aged farmer.

Needless to say, I didn't complement him, which he expected, nor did I complain about the cost of the suit, which had to have been more than we could afford.  He seldom wore the suit after that, so it hung in the closet gathering moths, as it was wool fabric.  He had the hat to go with the look, but it also stayed in the box.

I witnessed his rage at a former employee who came to our home wanting to be hired back after leaving our employment several times.  Husband cut loose with the most fearful rage I ever heard, complete with expletives I had never heard from him before.  I was shaking in the other room when he was finished.  I found the whole thing crazy, but suppose he wanted to scare the young man before he agreed to let him return to the job.  There was no sense in the tirade at all.

The only time I went into a rage was the year before Husband died, when he was coming into my room every evening telling bigger and bigger lies to stir me up.  I screamed at him to stop the lies and said I couldn't stand it anymore.  He left me alone for a couple of days and went right back to the nightly ritual again.  It was obviously a game to him and he was very mentally ill by that time.  So I would walk out of the room when he began his stories, or I wouldn't talk to him at all.
It didn't seem to bother him.  He would have this strange smile on his face.

He tried raging at me while he was hospitalized, but I would quickly leave the room because I knew that if a nurse entered the room, he would cover it all up.  The drugs kept him from getting into a real rage, and he could change demeanors like an experienced con artist or theatrical artist.  When guests arrived to visit him, he pretended I wasn't there, so I would leave the room.  When they were gone, he would immediately close his eyes and pretend he was asleep.

He was a master at avoiding accountability, so I skipped trying to reason with him.

Husband's step-mother was a confirmed witch and displayed rages at family gatherings.  Finally I wrote her a note and asked her to not upset family guests at my parties anymore.  She never came to my house again except for the funeral lunch, and she doesn't rage in my presence anymore.  Problem solved.

I personally have never been very good at rage because it just wasn't in me, and often joked that it took me at least half a day to stir up anger in myself.  I have to think about it for a few hours, and then I have taught myself to dump the problem.
The lack of ability to get really angry and take action kept me from doing something constructive about my situation for many years.  Now I don't seem to have the ambition to keep an angry mood for very long unless someone wants to help me get up a posse and clear the critters outta town, or something.

This Won board group knows that in the past I have coped with anger by pushing the delete button for my membership.  I have found that I like the new format on the board because I can be selective about what I read.  In the past we were advised to not read what we thought bothered us, but how could we tell if it bothered us unless we read everything?  I think we have learned to laugh at that idea.

I hope it isn't offensive to some to find out that I do not read items that don't apply to me, or that I have no opinion or knowledge about.  I have a wide range of interests but can't tackle everything.
 Anger isn't a big issue with me because I am so accustomed to working with children who use rage as a control issue.  I let others be in charge of their control issues.

Cornfield

[Sadie Wu]

Narcissistic Rage.....so often I can't count....looking back now it was like a 2-year old's tantrum....but coming from a full-grown man it was frightening and intimidating.  Seriously, though...not much different than a 2-yr-old.....he would go into screaming fits simply because he wanted what he wanted when he wanted it.....like I said....toddler mentality.

I think the thing that sets us up the most is that we keep trying to reason with them.  Instead of approaching them like we would any 2-yr-old we keep expecting them to be grown-ups because we think that they are supposed to be........so we try to treat them and respond to them like adults.  That is the real trap.........because they are not acting nor do they intend to act like normal adults.  We keep trying to justify or excuse or understand their behavior because we do not want to accept that they really are just big ole' babies.....totally selfish, unreasonable, and self-seeking....incapable of caring about anything but themselves.  However, until we accept that what we are seeing is truly all there is to them, we will never be free of the traps they set for us........

They go on, screaming, pitching fits and tantrums, and we move with caution, trying to out-manuever, avoid, change, whatever it takes to change the situation until they finally where us out and we realize we can't do anymore, and what we tried did no good because in the end nothing we did could ever change them...........

No matter how many incarnations we put ourselves through, our partners remained the same tantruming toddlers they had always been...........

They are even more frightening than toddlers, however, because they are toddlers with adult resources.  Sometimes they have money, and jobs, and adult intelligence.....although they seldom use it in conjunction with adult maturity, responsibility, or wisdom......They do, however, use it for manipulation or vengence purposes.  Their lack of conscience can intensify the narcissistic rage retaliation.

I think it is a misnomer to believe that all narcissistic rage comes in the form of screaming tantrums........much of it does........but I think that their careful plotting to punish you is actually a form of their rage, just in a more controlled form.  It is also as frightening as the screaming rages, if not more so, because it can hit you unaware.......

An example I can think of is when my exMIL enhanced an e-mail with all sorts of vulgar language and passed it around the family, to make it look like I had authored it.  That was an intentional manipulation to make sure that my former FIL and BIL were sufficiently angered and on her side, because she wanted to ensure that I would be completely voted off the family island.............

Stupidity on their part, of course......and a willingness to believe what was easiest for them to believe.  They had known me for 20 years and knew I never talked like that.......but it gave them an "easy" reason to choose her and my ex.....even though doing so came at a huge price to their own personal character........They hurt themselves much more than they ever hurt me because in choosing to be like her, they are so much less than they were.......but her need to "win" or whatever it was that would drive her to deceive her own husband and son?  That, I believe, is narcissistic rage....directed at me, but demonstrated in a way other than a screaming tantrum.

My ex is more creative in the way he punishes me since we separated.  Because his opportunities to yell at me are limited, he has changed strategies.  He will work at me either by staying calm and coming at me and at me until I lose it.....like the time in my garage when he calmly discussed his brother in a derogatory way, saying things like that his brother was "damaged", that his brother had never done anything for him, that he didn't owe his brother anything........he will say things that he knows will urk me because I am passionate about defending the underdog, and it makes me sick that he is so disrespectful to his brother who is literally giving his life and soul for him, and he knows it........so he will say things repeatedly until I blow....tell him what a jerk I think he is, and dissolve into tears.......and then he will smile and walk away.......

Another tactic is that he will threaten me when no one is around to witness it.......threaten to take me back to mediation, threaten to take me to court, whatever he can think of to upset me.......if I ignore him long enough he will start sending texts demanding I call him....etc., and if I refuse, he will get the therapists or attorneys to back him up because he is so "nice" to them that they are convinced I have misinterpreted his motives........They help him harrass me by insisting I call or go to his stupid meetings, etc.......and you can hear the glee in his voice when I call or see it in his face when I finally show up.  It's sick..........

But I believe those are also forms of his narcissistic rage.......he has had to adapt his delivery because screaming at me would no longer be effective....he has found new ways to play his game....but he is still punishing me because he is allowed to.

It sucks.  My own therapist will commend me everytime I try to stand up to him and tell him "no."  Then he will get the parental decision maker or one of the kid's therapists to side with him, and I am screwed and have to "mind" him anyway......

I am slowly learning, however, that it is only as much fun as I make it for him.  Narcissists only enjoy raging at someone when they can see them struggling or in pain.  The less we struggle, the less they enjoy the game.

That does not mean we have to give in.  When we are playing school bus, we are being careful because we think someone has to be responsible and carry the load.  When we really start getting smart we learn that we don't have to be the school bus.......we can drive whatever we want.  The trick is to learn that we can choose a different route.......get off of their street as often as you can.....then you don't have to brake for them, or compensate for their lack of bad driving because you don't have to see what they are doing.  In the end, that is your best option.  And on the occassions when you do have to meet them at an intersection, approach with caution, make the encounter as brief as possible, and then take off in a different direction as quickly as possible!

Our best chance for a safe, and peaceful journey is to just avoid them on the road!  We should have the advantage, we know what they drive, and we know the awful stench of their fuel!  Narcissists also are creatures of habit.  They don't like change because they like to be in control and the familiar feels more controllable to them, so you will probably always recognize their wheels.........

Sadie Wu

[honeybearII]

I think it is a misnomer to believe that all narcissistic rage comes in the form of screaming tantrums........much of it does........but I think that their careful plotting to punish you is actually a form of their rage, just in a more controlled form.  It is also as frightening as the screaming rages, if not more so, because it can hit you unaware..

Sadie, this is an important point, and one which many of us did not recognize while we were living it.  My exNH did not stoop to screaming and throwing tantrums.  Instead, his anger took the form of cold, calculated ways in which he intimidated me and the children and other people.  He was, on the surface, still the charming, warm, funny person but at times he seemed to be seething beneath that exterior.  When his narcissistic defenses were challenged, he found ways to vent his anger but it was usually sneaky and mean.

I think, in retrospect, it might have been better if he HAD hauled off and hit me because at least then I would have recognized his rage for what it was.  When someone simply makes you invisible it is also a deep kind of anger and rage, but it is hard to respond to it if you are the object.  It is nothing you can put your finger on, just an on-going campaign to gaslight, make you feel diminished, treat you as though you are nothing.  I also think it is why so many people don't recognize that they are living with an N, because we expect a pathological person to be outwardly...well...pathological.  That is not the case with many Ns who know how to reign in their rage and use it in ways that are not so easily discernible.  We may SENSE that something is terribly "off", but it is truly hard to pin it on narcissistic rage until and if they blow up at us in some way.

Honey

[Cornfield]

I had the same experiences and feelings, Honey.   I knew it was not normal and I should respond in some way, but couldn't think of any response that would improve the situation except laughing at him once in a while.  He wasn't as dumb as he looked, ya know!

Cornfield

[NewWings4MeNow]

Punishment, threats in private, doctoring documents/communications, gaslighting, making another invisible -- I do agree that these are all forms of controlled rage.

Like Honey's said, during separation and after the D I often wished XNH would just haul off and hit me and get it overwith (or some other overt physical harm) -- I even discussed this as a strategy with my family advisors, then backed off and chose shield and NC.

Before separation it was very hard for me to understand what was going on and what I was experiencing, as so much of it seemed a sharp turn in behavior and particularly timed when my self-esteem was lowering rapidly before I understood consciously what self-esteem really even was or what my responsibilities were to it.  Mostly it was because I'd always taken words and behaviors at face value, and not applied the perceptive abilities required to delve beneath the surface to ulterior motives which might be the opposite of presentation -- this has been one of the best parts of the outcome of this journey.

Certainly a form of N rage I might experience now would be XNH blocking my being able to move with d, and dishonoring his agreement.  Somehow, though, I don't think it will happen this time.

NewWings4MeNow