PLEEEEEEEASE HELP! HAVING WITHDRAWS - ANY ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT!

[Phoenixxx]

This might have to go under the heading "Do As I Say, Not As I Did".

Each time I called, I did NOT get what I wanted and hungered for.  I was left more hurt, more confused, more anxious, more injured.  The weird thing is I dont wish I hadnt done that.  I mean I wish I hadnt because everytime I called I just deflated more and more of my sense of self-respect and dignity, HOWEVER, I had hope that all the loving things he had said over the years WERENT lies, and that he really DID love me, that I really WAS his soulmate -- and if I hadnt kept going back to keep getting my teeth kicked in, I would NOT have gotten to the clarity that there WAS no love, no respect and no empathy.  I had no chance of freedom until the last of my hope died, until the glaring ugliness of the truth shone down on me.

Having said that, you'll notice in terms of you, I and some others here are telling you what we can see from the outside.  We dont have hope for him coming to his senses and suddenly changing his ways and swooping you up in some grand romantic gestures.  So we'll probably all tell you, "PLEASE dont call, email, or go by his house".  In fact we probably all wish we could give you some potion so you wouldnt be feeling all the longing and grief and confusion and pain.  We know how horrible it was, it would be nice if we could spare others having to experience it.  But we cant spare you.  And if, like me, you find yourself picking up the phone, and NOT hanging it up before calling, you'll belong to a club with a lot of cool chicks who kept going back to get their teeth kicked in one more time.  Because there are plenty of us who had to learn our lessons the hard way.

I stopped all contact in the end in a very cowardly and conniving way.  I'm not at all proud of how I did it, but I really felt the trauma bonding severely and really needed off that rollercoaster despite wanting more than anything to surgically attach myself to him at the hip.  It was sort of like being at war with myself.  I was of 2 minds -- needing to stop ingesting the poison so I could finally heal and hopefully have a free life again one day -- and needing him so I could keep on breathing. I had read Vaknin's book ( or Hate Manifesto as I call it now) 5 times, especially the part about how calling a narcissist a narcissist is tantamount to forcing him to abandon you.  So thats what I did.  I knew within a few days I'd never hear from him again.  And true to the textbook, thats exactly how it played out.  I wouldnt recommend it.  My exN/S was in another hemisphere, if he had been here in Toronto he might have gone ballistic as so many N's do, and sought retribution for such a narcissistic injury.

I'm ashamed to say I had 2nd thoughts even after that, very painful ones, but then I knew by then because of the trauma bonding I would -- but fortunately for me, it was impossible to mend the injury I had caused him.  He was gone for good.  So I was cursing myself, and grateful to myself at the same time.  And thats when the real pain started, pain like I never knew before (the pain youre likely in right now), which steadily and slowly improved over time.

The only benefit now is, the pain is coming from inside of me, from MY grief, MY heart, MY disappointment...its not being force fed to me by my exN/S.  I am no longer some toy for a sadist.  I am no longer someone else's supply.  I no longer have to be in chronic mode of bracing myself for the next trauma.

I'm not a happy person yet...but I'm free...as free as an expartner of a N/S can be at this point.

Yes he found another.  He was with her for a year I think (not really sure), theyre broken up now, but I am sure he considered her temporary supply while he was overseas.  He has been home now for a year and I dont know exactly but I suspect he is looking for his REAL wife and mother of his children now, its part of his lifeplan and he always gets what he wants.  I know in my bones though what he is, and that wife and those children will not have happy lives.  They too will be chronically braced for the next trauma, be longing and starving and confused and in pain regarding his love and attention too...especially his children, my exN/S resents children immensely.  He only has his own best interests at heart.  Thats always been the way he's been, I cant see that ever changing.  His first love is himself, and all the trappings of wealth and what can be seen as impressive to others.  He wants status, power and dominance.  Wife and children are distant 4th and 5th if they rank at all in the top 10.

And he does not tolerate boredom or quiet...so their lives will be marked by constant melodrama.

I'm grateful it wont be my life.

And I hope it wont be yours either.

[Phoenixxx]

I can GUARANTEE you that if you get back with him, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.  Oh, he will be absolutely wonderful for a time and make all the promises in the world, but at the point that his own needs, desires, wants interfere with your expectations of what you want in a relationship, he will ALWAYS THINK ABOUT HIMSELF FIRST.  And even if your needs are normal by any definition of the word, it won't make any difference.  Life to an N is ALL ABOUT THEM.  What you experienced over the past year or so would be played out over and over and over and over..........

I know.  I lived it.
Honey

Honeybear this reminds me of when I broke up with my exN/S at year 2.  He decided after a few days he wanted me back.  No way.  I'd sleep wioth him and we could date, because I loved him and he was a great lover, but I would NOT be committed to him, because he had proved himself untrustworthy.  So I'd see him but I was going to see other men too.  (I know, I know, in hindsight this sounds stoopid, but at the time it seemed like the smart compromise).  What did he do?  He woo'ed me hunny chile like no man has ever woo'ed a woman before!  It was raining rose petals whenever we were together.  I thought I was treated like a princess in the first 6 months???  that was NOTHING compared to how he treated me for those 4 months.

4 MONTHS I held him off from a commitment until I broke down and thought, wow he must REALLY love me, he must have changed his ways, he is SO INTO ME!!!  Thats when he had the hard sell for a marriage commitment from me and my moving in with him.  Which I agreed to.

What do you think happened Ranger?

ON THE DAY WE WERE UNLOADING THE MOVING TRUCK AT HIS PLACE!!!!!  The devaluing started, the temper, the demands, the crazy-making.  3 months after that he informed me he would be soon applying to a prestigious British lawschool and I would not be invited.  This, after I had just taken a leave of absence from my job, given up my condo, moved my wee boy into his place.  Ugh, I thought my entire world had been cut out from under me. 

And the abuse only escalated from there until he kicked me out after 18 months.

Its true, the honeymoon phases can be over the top romantic, perfect, like a fantasy come true...but its always followed with worse and worse injury, confusion and pain.

Ugh, Ranger girl, if you can stay out after 1 or 2 years, and not after 7 like me, or even more like some others here, you'll be so much further ahead of us all, not only in living your best life from here on out, but in the shortness of your recovery.

[ranger]

OH MY GOSH!  I am sitting here with tears streaming down my face... You are so brave - Honeybear and Phoenixx.  THANK YOU both your stories are utterly amazing.  I am so crying!! I just (unwillingly) got home froma "horrible" first date.. this poor guy tried everything to woo me but guess what - you got it "my mind was on HIM" .. I cried the whole way home SITTING on my hands NOT to call him... I miss him SOOOOOO much... I walked in the door and read your posts and knew/know I am doing the right thing.  I can't EVEN imagine HoneyBear that many years of it... OH MY GOSH.. I am about to die inside with just 2 under my belt - how did you do it? Cornfield too?  Phoenixx?  How are you managing? I hear the hurt in your posts though and know it is a road I don't want to go down.  Thank you for opening your heart to mine.  You are all angels!  These posts are my strength and my believe it or not my rock!

I have to say - my "N" (I am even wondering if he is a true N after reading all this now....)... HE LOVED/ADORED children and loved/adored MY two kids so much (and my dog too).. He would do anything for them. He had an amazing kindness to him.  He also was NEVER able to walk away from me and stay away.  You know HoneyBear you said "life seems more exciting with an "N"  that is exactly how I felt with him --- ALIVE.. My mom AND friends would say over and over "what's it going to take -- finding him with another woman for you to see !"... so Phoenixx what you said about the phone call - everyone is telling me DO NOT CALL and I keep saying "why would I do that to myself" -- It is almost like you would think after COMING HOME FOR LUNCH (this is me venting again) and finding that he stole from me would be ALL IT TOOK... I mean stole something AND told me "it's over forever" and then when I called (100 times) that day to talk about it he NEVER ONCE answered my calls or returned my texts so I changed my number and swore I was DONE - well listen to me now... NOT DONE - STILL THINKING and hoping that man "I knew that could not live one day or one hour without me will show up at my door!"  So then I read HoneyBear's story and think "oh my gosh!!! "  How in the world... I am sure he loved her!  and here I am giving you guys my sob story of a 2 year love affair!  Phoenixx - he was asking to move in with me (begging actually) and then he would say "if you just act right for more than a week then you would have me 100%".  if you play your cards right you will have the KEY TO MY HEART..  I remember you guys when we first got together (after 6 months even) how heartbroken I was when (he hid his phone ALL THE TIME BTW) I saw him getting calls/texts from his ex-girlfriends.. of course I WENT BALISTIC and he said "they just don't get the hint" so he changed his number and said "a new beginning" for us baby... I thought to myself that day "I am the luckiest girl in the world"  well I bet not!  I bet he was with all of us that whole year!  who knows - I am so confused and upset - can you tell!  and furious! just furious! 

[ranger]

oh to add on--- I actually keep thinking "how will  I ever know now if he tried/is trying to contact me?  Why should I even care?  I am heartbroken (again) to see when I wake up that he didn't try to reach me... so I block the e-mail again thinking "o.k. I'm done - he didn't try to e-mail me HE ISN'T EVEN missing me - the guy who went INSANE one day of me not responding.  I remember I use to sit there and think "I wish I could be as laid back and at peace as he is"  NOTHING PHASED HIM.  GEEEEEEEEEEEEEz

[Phoenixxx]

my best guess is those other ex girlfriends were calling him repeatedly (if they were his ex's and not his "present's") was because they were all twisted up, confused, hurt and starving for the relief he could give them too if he would just take their call....

My exN/S had girls calling him like that too...girls dont do that because theyre nuts, not with guys like this...girls do that because theyre trauma bonded and dont get it yet.

thats my suspicion anyway.

youre dating already?  only after 2 weeks?  how do you feel about that?

[ranger]

HORRIBLE..not dating again for awile now.  I thought it would help - got an answer to that real quick.. NOPE... I also know he has already moved on so I hate that!  Well - I am going to focus on healing, focus on my new home, my children, my family etc... NO MEN... I am looking over all the posts and just wondering... how do you know he's an "N"?? I am making this diagnosis not sure?? also - going back to other women... I wonder if any of the others ever were able to cut off contact like this?? I wonder why he always hid his phone etc... also - he wasn't mean like I'm hearing on here... he was so amazingly sweet.. ughhhh   

[Phoenixxx]

a lot of the answers to your questions are in the archives
I just came across an article there about the sweet N's as compared to my ex-sociopath
I dont remember the title though, sorry

[Wren]

ranger, it's going to take you a long, long time.  I understand it was only two years.  With some people here, I don't know what to say.  They had long marriages and children together.  So many met when they were so young and knew they wanted to marry that person.  I'm not demeaning these people whatsoever.  I'm just saying, it's hurtful, but our hurt feels almost a bit foolish.

Two years?  It really happens.  You're probably the only one here that had something comparable with me concerning a narcissist other than talking about friends and family.

When I knew everything was futile with xN, I remember watching for the first time, "The Sound of Music," and crying my eyes out.  I couldn't believe he did that to her, not noticing Julie Andrews.  When the kids found her, she told the Mother Superior to tell them it may take a long, long time, something like that. 

I couldn't even listen to music for a very long time.  I remember being in a Target store looking at pans and dishware hearing, "One less egg to fry..."  I'm sure I would have never noticed that song playing before.  The feelings are so raw, you can't possibly explain it to anyone, and especially, if it was a narcissist.  It's not a normal breakup, in your heart, you know everything is wrong.

I felt xN was a Godsend.  He always said just the right things.  I was 41, pre 9/11, everything in itself felt different.  I felt that at my age, I was blessed to have finally found my soulmate, this wonderful guy!  I remember he actually told me that his downfall is that he's just too damn caring and generous. <red, red, red>

Yada... he gets me to give up a nice apt condo on the beach to move in with him.  Remember the stupid thing I said I did after 6 months?  Moving in with him.  Turned out, he was getting some annuity payments twice a year that subsidized some of the living above his means category.  Then, I guess, I was supposed to pay toward his mortgage.  That wasn't going to happen.

On top of all of this, if this wasn't bearing on heart pressure enough, I felt and still do think he had something to do with his sister in law and had a kid with her, and the WHOLE family making the dumb husband-brother-son-nephew believe everything was perfect.  No where, no how, did I ever blame the poor little boy.  I would never want him to know.

I seemed to have opened a hornet's nest though with this observation.  Believe me, I could tell you stories.

It's been years now, but I do check once or so a year on cicuirt court sites of these people who have caused me the greatest pain.  The sis-in-law divorced her beloved husband (hahaha, the one that never stopped cheating on her starting from the night before their wedding!) after over 20 years and then SHE remarries someone within a year.  It's all about business with these certain people.  xN bought a very expensive house at the end of 2006 (on top of a housing bubble, dumbsh*t) and went belly up within a year.  Some people can't live within their means.   

Ranger, you'll feel this way soon as well.  I cried while reading your posts.  I was right there.  It hurts so much and I can't take it away from you.  I already know that you will be making mistakes, your feelings are so raw right now.  But you know what the bright side is?  I'm crying for you crying over your xN and not mine, lol.  Trust me, you'll be on this side one day.

Please don't make many mistakes.  You will get through this, although, it doesn't feel like it now.  BTW, he WILL try to contact you at some point.  Please don't fall for it.

-Wren 

[takingtime]

to give my recent account
ive been no contact for three weeks now
this is about our fifth break up in 18 months
the first was when he decided to move interstate
of course i followed him there three times in six months! paid for his daughter paid for .. on and on and on
he did pay me back eventually though so have to give him that!
anyway each time i mentioned anything about 'the future' he would just say there is no future. i'd say why? he'd say because it's not what he wants.
but each time i went home each time i said goodbye he was on the phone to me straight away talking to me about all his problems - always his problems! and me stupidly trying to help his so-called emotional issues!
he was playing me all the time. he was academy award performances. too easy over the phone and sending text messages how much he missed me. wanting me to come back to him blah blah.
i went back to him every time only to go through another break up!
last christmas when he came back from interstate we travelled back together and i went home with him.
then he says again there's no future for us!
after we'd just spent the past three weeks as a family together and having a great time. except for him he couldn't stand it. cause he couldn't be himself. he always had to put on the facade. it must've been killing him!
he had one temper tamptrum and it was over nothing! i couldn't understand why he was so upset!
honestly it makes me laugh now when i think about it. being this nice sweet family man, holding my hand, looking after me and having to be responsible for his own daughter as well! oh my the pressure!
anyway i left again and within two weeks he was back with his ex that he'd still kept in touch with while we were together!
she just took him back after not seeing him for 12 months!
and then he dumped her again to pick up with me!
yes i went back AGAIN!
i'm laughing at myself now!
so we did this sexual experimenting as he called it. the games the crudeness too crude to mention here but i eventually worked out he was mimicking everything he'd watch on his porn movies. even bought a video camera to film us.
this was his new game.
then when he'd obviously done all he wanted to do it was over again.
except the last time he hinted at me visiting him for more games i ignored it.
so that was it!
i haven't contacted him and he hasn't contacted me.
end of story
it was so so difficult that first week. but each week, each day is gettiing so much better. i've gone over in my head a thousand times the conversations i had - and it was mostly me talking and him just sitting there staring into space - not even looking at me and not answering.
of course he wasn't like that at the start like i said in my original post here.
the only way through this with any narcissist is NOT CONTACT it just can't be said enough
NO CONTACT NO CONTACT NO CONTACT
don't idealise him dont think about who he's with or whether he's happy or in love or ANYTHING
IT DOESN'T MATTER ANY MORE
WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR LIFE
YOUR LIFE!!!!

love and kisses to all on this site
you're all brilliant and definitely saving me

[ranger]

Wren - thank you.  I do feel silly some as to my time frame.  My heart goes out to the women on here with so many years and so much abuse.  I am starting to feel like if I don't stay away I am in for some major heartache in my future.  I just turned 40 so he always threw that in my face "how lucky I am to have a "young hot thing"... I was like o.k... and I would come back with "I am worth alot and I know it".  He would say "I see that that is why I KEEP COMING BACK"  --- taking time... we went back and forth the last year 9 times (maybe more) and towards the end I would not let him around my children.  They adored him and I refuse to let their hearts get broken anymore.  From the mouth of babes..my daugther got in care (now I thought she idolized him) last week and I told them (I was a wreck btw) he would NEVER be around again... she said "yeah if he was our stepfather we would always be broke" it was like a jolt.. I was like "what" my son said "all he did was come over and want all your attention, eat all our food and never give you any  money mom"  (DAH MOM GET A GRIP).... RED  RED RED... and I am remembering so much reading these posts --- he would actually borrow gas money from me (a single mother of 2) to get home... I never thought twice about this.. hmmmm and every single time there was a holiday..i.e. V-day ,,etc.. he would pour on the harlequin romance make up sessions... geez
Thank you all so much for all your posts this week - I would not be able to get through this without you
TODAY IS 3 WEEKS!  I bet NO ONE has ever withheld from him like this ! I betcha money!

[ranger]

I meant to add on to you takingtime.. it's funny I was thinking as I was reading this this morning how I also went over this in my mind like you these last 2 weeks. the end.. right before that horrible day we were sitting in my living room and he said "you know we are hanging on by a string - both of us"  he said "I've helped you about all I can and I don't think there is anything else I can do to help YOU"... I looked at him and said "helped me with WHAT".... I was so confused and then he said so incredibly calmly (as I was boiling)... "I can walk away from this knowing I gave it everything I have".. all you did "was cause fights and conflict with your insecurities and jealousy"... and then... "I know I will hear of you finding a man and he will kiss your ....s but I will never do that and put up with all your games"  he actually said "It will take me a long long time to heal from this.. I just have to hope not all women are like you - that this was just a fluke"  (OMG THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IT FOR ME DON'T YA THINK!!!) (then after all that a night of amazing passion -- dah!) I was so confused and hurt by this... looking back he knew!  He set me up - because the next day was the last I ever saw him..

[takingtime]

hi ranger
wow to me i just can't believe how these guys are like carbon copies of each other. it's uncanny!
you know the sex is him masturbating with your body
sorry to be so crude and straight forward but it's so true
think about it - look back at how he was with you when intimate
he never saw you it was all about him
and if he thought he was pleasuring you well that was just pleasuring him
it's nothing to do with us it's always about them and only them
noone else exists
we don't exist

it's so so cruel and harsh i know
but we are so much better off than them because we CAN love
they CANNOT they are incapable

it doesn't matter any more what he is doing or who he is with
he doesn't exist for you any more

and yes my children said things to me at the end and that's what did it for me too
he barely even spoke to them barely even a hello goodbye

he lived in the country and im in the city so i'm so grateful now for that distance

it was only ever about sex for him
nothing more and nothing less

those were his exact words at one stage after a break up i asked him what do you want from me?
and he said 'nothing more and nothing less'!!!
and still i went back wanting more

it's never going to happen
not with you or me or anyone else
NEVER

[ranger]

taking time... I dunno. He ALWAYS wanted to please me and always did.  I dunno he begged, text, called, begged, every single time, chasing me - I was reading what Phoenixx wrote about him begging her and her finally moving in.. I just don't understand this part of it... YOu went through it too.  Why would they chase so hard for so long so much and then NOTHING IT'S OVER?  I can't wrap my mind around it.  What is so darn frustrating is I swear I thought he truly loved me... I know his family (who is wonderful) and I just don't get it.  I feel like if I could understand this part (why he isn't chasing now etc.. ) then I could LET GO and quit.. move on etc...

[Phoenixxx]

Its puzzling thats for sure.  Apparently I was the only girlfriend he introduced to his father, and then his mother, and then his entire extended family at an annual family reunion he hadnt attended in years.  That seemed to me like he DID love me like the woman he wanted to marry.  But most other actions, most other choices had to do with him and him alone -- what he wanted, immediate gratification, no self-sacrifice and certainly, a profound lack of empathy, a profound lack of conscience.

And without empathy and conscience he could only love me like a little boy, not like an adult man.  he knew how to want, and how to take.  He did not ever know how to be there for someone else.

And if you imagine a little boy who needs immediate gratification. but who has a bottomless pit of need for power, status and domination, throw in an unhealthy dose of sadism and voila -- youve got my exN/S -- someone who wanted me, and wanted to diminish me at the same time.

Needing to be at the top of the food chain and hurting your loved one in order to make them lower than yourself .. thats not real love.

[takingtime]

for my experience it was like he had a list in his mind that he was ticking off as we went along
i guess eventually you get to the bottom of the list and there is no more
until he comes up with a new list and then it's back on again


pleasing you is to keep you from abandoning him
it's a chore for him and eventually it exhausts them and they need a break
it's still all about him and his skills as a lover

i think the real reason it eventually gets to the absolute end is when they know that you've had enough
they know that you've seen through their manipulations and you're tenuously close to seeing them for what they really are
EMPTY AND SCARED

it's much easier for them to start again with a clean slate with someone new

so you see it's really because you are a loving and strong person that he is gone
he couldn't break you

look at it in a postive way the fact that he is gone is your dream come true
as painful as it is that is the reality
it's your path to freedom to receive true love

[SydneyFireworks]

Hi Ranger and all

Takingtime is exactly right with what she says... "when they know that you've seen through their manipulations and you're perilously close to seeing them for what they really are ... EMPTY and SCARED".

It's difficult to comprehend at first... but as each piece of the jigsaw falls into place, you will feel much, much better.   

Hugs
Syd

Hi takingtime... welcome to WoN, and greetings from a fellow Aussie - previously Sydney, now northern NSW where it's also sunny     

[ranger]

I guess it is so hard to believe that for someone not to want you to abandon you so badly and please you etc.. that they can walk away forever.  I swear I am struggling so hard with that!  (can you tell!!!)  How can they just ...end it NO CONTACT.. I wonder like you said there takingtime is did he know I was onto him?  Know I was getting onto him and (questioning his occasional drug use - hmmmm) what was that all about and all the "where is your phone why was it off? why didn't you call?  (then why are you so controlling?  why do you have to have your thumb on me!) geez.  But if he started with someone new? I wonder if that is in fact what he did?  I feel like it is (which hurts - dah who cares right?) I mean I should get a clue after reading these heartfelt posts... get a clue - hit me someone would you! How did I know he was a "N"  I have no clue - how did I know???  Did you play these loops in your head like I am too?? going over and over all these millions of moments?  Is this freakin normal!  I hate it - I still cannont believe he is not chasing me!  I'm like how the heck could he have moved on already!  then I think what if he's with his ex?? they were still calling him? !  Yes... He said "he was friends with all of them"  well then why was he so mean to ME in the end?? I don't get it!  Why doesn't the end of it come together for me? How could he be so in love with me and my kids and love us so much? I need to get it!  I sat here today (today was 2 weeks of no contact) and I thought - I will never ever have that closure.. never hear his voice again.. never feel him again.. etc... I can't even believe that.. I just want to thank you all again - you guys have no idea what a blessing these posts are right now to me.  thank you all.

I WILL READ AND RE-READ THIS EACH DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pleasing you is to keep you from abandoning him
it's a chore for him and eventually it exhausts them and they need a break
it's still all about him and his skills as a lover

i think the real reason it eventually gets to the absolute end is when they know that you've had enough
they know that you've seen through their manipulations and you're tenuously close to seeing them for what they really are
EMPTY AND SCARED

it's much easier for them to start again with a clean slate with someone new

so you see it's really because you are a loving and strong person that he is gone
he couldn't break you

look at it in a postive way the fact that he is gone is your dream come true
as painful as it is that is the reality
it's your path to freedom to receive true love

[takingtime]

ranger my heart goes out to you i truly feel what you're going through and it's awful really awful
but it does get better
it's been three weeks of no contact for me now and he only enters my mind perhaps half the day now!
i still go to sleep thinking about him but not in a loving and longing way

[wanttobefree]

Hi Ranger,
I'm pretty new here too, and coming to terms with the surreal truth of what's been happening. I'm out for 7months now after 10 yrs. Echoing the others, yes, you are lucky to have him NOT contact you. Mine contacted me for months after, doling out the treats or withholding as necessary. Keeping me updated on his specialness and so on. Prolonging the withdrawal and healing process that was inevitable, I knew. We were 'friends'. I didn't know then what I was dealing with. I was still taking it all at face value, you know? Anyway, if this man were to want you, and you got back with him, your life would be so much worse than the pain you are going through now. Guaranteed. Mine cracked my brain into many pieces slowly over the span of our relationship, and I knew the entire time something was terribly wrong. Yep, it all started in a similar fashion of the rest of the stories here. The savior, the soul mate, the unique and tragically soulful one. Handsome, confident, talented, psychopathic. His self-sense of elevation from the norm made me feel special and honored to be 'chosen' by him. It sounds so silly now, and sick. The bunny who stretches it's neck out to the coyote. He made sure of this state of mind from the beginning, like yours, by alternate emotional bonding and abandonment. This is a tool for them. They lay the groundwork so cunningly, make it seem like 'just relationship stuff'. Well, it's not. It's selfish to the point of malicious. Just to give you a bit of encouragement, everyday the withdrawal ebbs a bit until somedays you'll find yourself thinking of him, and realize it's been a while since you last thought of him. Days, maybe hours, even minutes count as progress. Give yourself a big hug every time you have this realization and tell yourself how well you are handling it, and yes it hurts like a SOB and makes you want to scream. Cry as much as you want to, and know that with your tears, you are washing the taint of him from your self. Yes, the 'happy' memories make you feel crazy, the dichotomy is so mind bending. I came across a photo of mine smiling, and for the first time, I could Identify the evil lurking behind his eyes. I could always see it, but didn't know what it was. He was so freaking clever and his act so well performed. Most of the time. The real nutso times were like being in the twilight zone. Stepping into another reality of callousness and cold, cold, cold alien freakishness. That look that scared me so terribly, I know now, I was looking into the eyes of a monster. His eyes would get all crisp and kind of vacant at his most exposed, and I felt like they were cutting me into shreds just by them looking at me. That was the one I was terrified of, the one that just might be able to kill my body now that he'd killed my spirit.
So see, bless your heart, you are on the light side of that tunnel again. Turning around to look away from the darkness is a slow process, but you are doing it. And doing it well. Please be sure to love yourself through this! It's all we have to fall back on at this point, and YOU ARE SO WORTHY OF LOVE!
Stay safe, and enjoy your children.
The very very best to you,
J

[ranger]

WanttobeFree: 

thank you for the words of encouragement!  I am so sorry about what you went through.  I tell you all these stories and posts (which I read over and over each day) are the ONLY way I am doing this..  I had NO idea about NPD no clue- and RIGHT BEFORE he "ended" things with me for good I picked up a book (by accident) at the bookstore about it.. I was actually grabbing a book on "addiction to relationships and withdrawls" as I thought this might help (hence my withdrawls were already there even though we weren't broken up.  I was struggling so badly everytime we went "back and forth" that I thought I was "addicted" to HIM.  I still am not positive if he has NPD as he was so kind, loved his family, has tons of friends etc... I never really saw a "dark" side like I am hearing here.  But I have to tell you he did CONTACT ME last night.  via e-mail.. he got around my block via another user name etc.. of course unknowingly I opened it and it said "I'm sorry" - no reason no nothing.. then that he misses me loves me and hates the way things ended.  he said "he doesn't expect me to contact him" and will love me forever"... now this is what I have been waiting for CLOSURE  right?  I have to say I do not feel like I thought I would.  I feel so incredibly empty and SO CONFUSED.  I read the e-mail at least 20 times searching for answers or SOMETHING anything to fix my heart.  I was left "as always" with tons of unanswered questions.  I have to say I was surprised though.  I did not think I would ever ever hear from him again.  Of course I did not and will not reply and I do not feel that anticipation like I always feel.  That shimmer of hope that "he will be back - he still loves me" feeling.  ONE MORE TIME FEELING.  I have read and read and read about NPD and still not sure if this fits him - but it seems to.... he did give me lots of gifts, love me and my kids etc.. but the other things were absolutely horrible.  I haven't even told you guys all of it.. geez... the intimacy though - it is hard to imagine having anything close to that with another man.  it blew me away --- amazing. 
So --- now I have to be strong.. I can't block him from everything forever.  I am so glad I changed my number though.  That was a HUGE step for me as his texting baited me every single time.  I still look at my phone ALL day... lol.... But now I know --- he will look for me.  or maybe not.. you know there were times in our relationship where I would get these desperate texts and he never did show up here.  I am assuming from all of you here that the e-mail is the beginning of his bait and hook scenario.  Well - guess what???  NOT THIS TIME SUCKER.

[ranger]

BTW -- is there anyway he could be reading these?  I wonder about that sometimes?  I have never been on a forum before.. it creeps me out to think anyone could read the things I am sharing with you guys...?

[wanttobefree]

Hi Ranger,
I was afraid to post things too at first, but there was so much secrecy in our relationship that I simply had enough of carrying it all around inside of me. I never mentioned the N thing to him, and I am counting on the N personality type that doesn't ever look into their own psych problems. And chances are, if they read here, they would probably think ALL the posts were about them, lol.
But yes, anything you post here can be read by anyone.
Just keep it anonymous.

Congratulations on your incredible show of strength and self respect!!!! I hope you treat yourself to something nice for that.
Lord, I would comb the self help shelves at the book store looking for something to fix myself! I hear this is typical. This form of emotional and psychological abuse is so subtle, that I never would have even referred to it as abuse. It has taken me a while to give it that name. I still wonder if I'm not over reacting.

Another thing I am having a go at in recovery is to not focus on trying to figure out why he is like that, but stay focused on feeling better about myself. It is so hard when my worth as a person has been so closely tied him. I had a time of that empty and confused faze, but I am starting to feel my own substantial self again and it has nothing to do with him. at all.  I don't know if this is quite what you are feeling, but i find that the more I do the things that I enjoy, even if I have to struggle to remember what they are, the more the addiction eases. Turn the focus back to yourself if you can, even just a little bit everyday. I say all this, but I still think obsessively about mine all the time. Not with any longing, but with regret for all the time I thought our life and dreams were real, and all the losses I endured due to our separation. I feel anger at having been used so terribly, I'm taking that as a good sign.

I sterilized all conversations with my ex at the last, once I knew, I was not going to give him another emotion, not one more. He had nothing to chew and spit back at me, and he did try to bait me, but I didn't bite, so he really did just go away.

I hope yours does the same, it really is the only way to get over them.

[honeybearII]

BTW -- is there anyway he could be reading these?  I wonder about that sometimes?  I have never been on a forum before.. it creeps me out to think anyone could read the things I am sharing with you guys...?

This site has very good security, but if someone wants to get on here, I guess they can. You can address CZ personally as to the security we have.  She has worked hard on keeping this a safe site.  I was really freaked out when I found out (months after I left him) that my STBX was and had been reading all my emails and even had been logging on to another site where I was pouring my soul out.

At first I was appalled to think about what he had been reading, and then I thought, "HE!!  This is my life, my story, my truth.  If he gets an eyeful of what I think of him and what I went through, GOOD!! "  It was incredibly freeing to get over thinking I had to hide my feelings from him as I had been doing for years and years.  It was a whole, big part of my healing to realize that I no longer gave a rat's azz if he read every single thing I had been writing about him during that time.  I hope he did, and I hope he was seething. 

Honey

[eyes_up]

If a narcissist has access to your computer history...erase the history once finished. I had a hard time keeping the XN from using my computer. He would ask and I didn't want to appear reactive so I would say yes. He trashed my photo shop application after waiting 2 years to get a new one. Was I able to say he did this...NO..but there was the only other person on my computer and I know it didn't just disappear on its own.  So, do't allow a narcissist on your personal computer.
 

"I sterilized all conversations with my ex at the last, once I knew, I was not going to give him another emotion, not one more. He had nothing to chew and spit back at me, and he did try to bait me, but I didn't bite, so he really did just go away." ~ wantobefree

Hey free - I really like this direction. I agree. Cutting off emotional response/reaction really changes it up.

Honeys statement about freeing up is a keeper. Difficult to do when at certain times the only thing that seems personal and unviolated is board messages.But if the narc is gone and not living in the same quarters ...it matters not what is read. Ultimately it doesn't matter ...what the narc read is of no importance in the finality of all events. The interpretation remains the same with or with out.

I also recall being in therapy afraid to tell on the narc as if what I said in private would transfer out for some magical reason. That is how much fear I carried.Another thing I found interesting is how a narc plugs into information. How I respond to what is presented meaning, and I hope I can describe this..narc are not mind readers although sometime if no tall times, I was with the experience that I no longer had my own mind. I was an open book. I found out that this sort of psychic invasion (powerlessness, helplessness) is't because the narc can see through walls but because of what I had given away.

I decided to do a little experiment near the end just to see where it would go and how it would act.It was also pleasing to see the narcissist try to get out of something he didn't even do and turn it on me.  I accused the narcissist of actions that were untrue.I wanted to see what would come of it.The response was the same as if I had expelled the truth.What this said to me besides the maN was or still is nutz is that narcs don't see anything of what is really happening.whether I tell a lie or the truth the process and out come is the same.Their interpretations are once over..they defend and deny the truth the smae way they defend ad deny the lie. They do not know the difference because thier whole life is a lie.
For meitwas important that I could objectively see the operation and depersonalize it. The N's responces and reactions had nothing ot do with me.
That was freeing as well.

That is when I started lying. I hadn't ever before. I started lying because if the narc wanted something the narc was going to get it. I found out through his own methods how to retrieve information that wasn't presented..especially about how the N's operating systems worked.

Yet I recall those days of fear when any hair line movement on my own behalf was threatened. I know those days well and it did require therapy to kill the beast.

eyes

[CZBZ]

"BTW -- is there anyway he could be reading these?  I wonder about that sometimes?  I have never been on a forum before.. it creeps me out to think anyone could read the things I am sharing with you guys...?"~ranger

There is always a risk when we choose to speak out whether we're using our voices or the keyboard. I had the same experience as Honeybear when first posting messages in 2002. Part of that was my own fault for not using a name that was unrecognizable. People call me 'CZ' in real-life and once I came up with the nickname 'CZBZ', that's what everyone started calling me. It wasn't hard for my X to figure out how to track me on the internet since there aren't too many CZBZ's posting messages, ha! Therefore, use a nickname the N will NOT recognize. Do not use a composite of your true initials the way I did.

Even though I knew he (or his girlfriend) were reading my messages, I did not want to change my name. So I didn't. I decided that if they had nothing better to do than read about my healing process, then they could go ahead and do that. Why my story should take center place in either of their lives now is beyond me. good grief...

Never use any identifying information like where you live, the names of your kids, etc. I posted a helpful tip for posting safely here: How Safe is My Identity?

There are literally millions of message boards on the web now. The odds of a narcissist reading millions of messages a week in order to find yours is extremely unlikely! However, they can track your computer to see where you've been or even find your password if you keep it on your computer. If you leave printed messages where teh narcissist can find them, that's another problem And lots of people have done that (myself included) because we erroneously THOUGHT it would save teh relationship for the narcissist to read what an azzhole he or she was. LOL!!! So don't mess with your precious connection here by telling the narcissist where he can learn to be a better person. It Won't Work.

This site is for survivors of N-relationships. Narcissists can find message boards to help people who are narcissists. That's their problem, not ours.

I am able to track iSPs of anyone logging in to this forum. If you would like to send me the ISP of the narcissist-in-question, I can put an alert or even ban them from viewing our site. You can email me here: wonmanagers@yahoo.com

We used to have our message board on MSN and I was not able to provide the level of security we have on this private site. Also, if you post on other message boards, change your screenname. As usual, I didn't take that precaution either and have always used CZBZ as my screenname no matter where I was posting. My divorce was miserable but it was fairly easy since we did not have child custody issues to settle, so there was nothing to worry about even if my X read my messages. Well, other than the fact that he got a little hot-under-the-collar and his girlfriend thought I was a bipch.

You can be sued for libel by anyone you write about and recent (tho rare) lawsuits have resulted in millions of dollars of compensation. Again, what's key here is using an anonymous screenname for yourself and for the narcissist. Every lawsuit that has been successful was based on the fact that people used REAL NAMES, real addresses and real workplaces. So don't do that. The libel suits were based on 'lost business' because of the poster's allegations/opinions. So please do not name any businesses where you OR the N works. I will, as has been customary, delete any identifying information that might get posters OR MYSELF (ha!) in trouble. I don't want a lawsuit anymore than any of you.

You can type your screenname in google and see if it comes up with any hits to this forum. I doubt it will because of the excellent security settings coded into our website. Let me know if you happen to see one of your messages show up on a 'search'. My son is the computer programmer and he can work magic if we need to upgrade security on this site.

Also, our forum is relatively small which makes it even safer since we are not linked all over the web. (that's a good thing and a bad thing, right?)


Hugs,

CZ