Archived Thread: New N, Same Lesson

[CZBZ]

New Narcissist

Same Lesson

From: Dirtgirl65  (Original Message) Sent: 4/21/2007 8:43 PM


Greetings Fine People of WON,

I hope all are doing well in their recoveries--and I'm grateful I can pop on to see that the same rules apply--are unalterable--and are available for everyone to read with the hope of great healings if one follows the "yellow brick road" towards NOCONTACTVILLE.

I met another N last September. This one was not a love interest so I thought "no problemo". I also didn't think N at all. I thought, "wow a brand new soul mate" (his words).

This red flag did not apply I thought, because new Nfriend was a gay man.

WRONG.

I just read CZBZ's wise words:

"The problem with the narcissist's lack of attachment is not summed up as a fear of commitment. The inability to attach means they are capable of walking away at any point.......if there are better options elsewhere. A Narcissist is a huge risk for anyone to have as a longterm partner. Why? Because they will leave when we need them the most." ~CZBZ

And this is exactly what happened (TEXTBOOK CASE). I was going into SURGERY and needed someone to pick me up. N volunteered to be my caregiver and to take care of me during my outpatient mode--I had only just met him and was actually uncomfortable with his taking on this "intimate" role. I am fine but was being checked for colon cancer.

N emailed me the Friday before my Monday a.m. appointment to say that he had a job out of town that was a huge opportunity (read: attention for N) and he LIED about turning it down at first but that he was pressured by his bosses and had no choice and that he lost an entire night's sleep over this "agonizing" (for him) decision.

Once that scenario played out and spilled shame all over the place--he was gone forever. Oh, I got a book or two in the mail so he could retain "great guy" status--but he has not returned an email or a phone call since and I've actually never been ditched to this degree by anyone (even the N who landed me on this board back in the day was a responder).

Recovery Part II is not easier emotionally, but because there are tools in place from everything I learned from all of you, the time of denial and bargaining was much shorter and I have a new set of red flags to throw on the playing field going forward.

In Hindsight--this person attached to me through mirroring. I am happy, joyous, and free and he sucked up my enthusiasm and parroted my words back to me--"loving and adoring" me way to early in the game of pals. He wanted to be loved and adored but had no clue about loving and adoring--adoring is even a bad word in this context.

He was all immediate hyperbole (let's go to Europe!) and no actual action (never answered his phone=unavailable).

RED FLAG. Relationships take time and RECIPROCITY is the major rule always.

Anyway, lesson learned, and I take great solace in knowing that "this too shall pass". Ultimately I was in a lull of NOT taking care of myself when the N interloped into my field of vision and now I am back to my spiritual quest for "right living".

I wish you all empathy-filled relationships and thank you from the bottom of my bruised heart for all the love and support you have always doled out and are still sharing with others. I have taken these skills into my current life and like to think that I carry you angels with me as I impart WON wisdoms to my friends and colleagues whenever an N needs to be hunted down and eliminated through "no contact".

So this is another bit of thank you to all of you truly beautfiul souls.

Thanks CZBZ and all for keeping WON alive. I love you!


Much Love (& Light),

Your Pal,

xodg

 
 
 
From: PracticalJude Sent: 4/22/2007 6:01 AM


Hi and great to see you!
 
I'm sorry for the eNcounter but just got to tell you how good you sound.  You are so right about having the tools to cope.  Instead of saying "what a difference a day makes" I say, "What a difference an N makes" - lol!  I have a very Nish jerk I met ONCE call me and ask me if he could stop over before I go to work.  My jaw dropped but I ended up laughing...So you think I'm going to let you into my personal space and I don't even know you?  And, as you say, even when we think we know them it's always a eye-opener to see the mask drop.
 
Thank goodness for your educatioN and big heart.  Isn't it great to know we CAN survive and find comfort with who we are despite their outlandish behaviors.
 
Thanks for sharing!  Personally, I'll wait another three years before I consider thinking dating might be fun again - HAHAHA!  I seem to be doing okay without it.  Oh - I know there are good guys out there but the part that sticks out in my head is exactly what you said....and many have said...
 
Go ahead and get sick or need to go into the hospital and watch em have NEEDS much more important than yours! 
 
Sorry you had to experience this and happy you pulled right through this. 
 
Love,
Jude
 

   

 
From: ****  Sent: 4/22/2007 7:59 AM


Hello, dearest DG--
 
I broke out in a great big smile when I saw your screen name this morning.  I think of you so often.  I am so glad you are all right and that the surgery went ok.  I'm sure the colon cancer check was a scare, so hugs to you. 
 
You know, DG, I have encountered one or two N's myself post N-education.  The last one side-wiped me but good.  It was work-related and I did not see it coming in time to fend off the affects completely.  Once I saw it, I hunkered down and prepared for the fallout and of course, there was fallout.  I guess it just goes to show you, that there are N's who do not let us know who they are until they are good and ready to do so sometimes and by that time, the damage is underway.
 
Ah, recovery.  We think we know better and so we will do better going forward and for the most part, I think we do.  The heck of it is that N's don't know better and they go around doing things the way they've always done them and I really don't think we are 100% bullet-proof to purposeful deception masked as caring, no matter how educated we are   If we were, we'd never, ever get burned again and I have to tell you that no matter how much better I am at spotting red flags, or how many narcissitic people I encounter, I still get burned sometimes because I'm sort of a trusting, hopeful woman. albeit a bit more skeptical than I once was. 
 
Fortunately, we do have the wound dressing now and we recognize things earlier so we can identify what it is we just experienced or may experience if we continue and we cope accordingly.  I'm of a mind these days that anyone who thinks they can't get fooled again is going to find out that getting fooled isn't always about how N-educated you are or aren't or how much you value yourself.  There are times when that is certainly true or more likely, and I'll get to that in a minute.  However, before I do, I would like to say that sometimes, it's not about that.  I think it is also about how deceptive someone else can be.  But that's another post altogether.  LOL.   
 

"Ultimately I was in a lull of NOT taking care of myself when the N interloped into my field of vision and now I am back to my spiritual quest for "right living"."--DG

Yes, DG.  Onto this aspect of our N-vulnerability.  When we are not looking out for ourselves as we should because of life stressors or because we are going through a difficult period, perhaps we are less apt to hold others accountable for their actions and we don't see as clearly as we should.  That's perfectly human.  We need each other when we are fearful or hurting.  We need people to be there for us when it's hard to be there for ourselves as we would like.  That does leave us vulnerable, but without that vulnerability we wouldn't be open to the positive experiences in life either and the genuine caring that is out there for us.  I guess, though, it is easier to discern in whom we should instill our trust when our compassion for ourselves is at its optimum and when fear isn't clouding our judgment, so for me, I'm trying to find that compassion for myself, not just when I'm feeling good, but even more especially when I'm feeling weak.  That is not always easy, but I think it's key. 
 
So, DG, you are right when you say that Recovery Part II is not easier emotionally.  I think our coping skills are better, but we are never invulnerable in this life nor would I want to be.  We will hurt again and again and recover again and again from the hurts and losses we experience,  N-related or not.  We can minimize the unnecessary damage if we are watchful and tuned into our needs, but we will always experience loss and disappointment in this life and we will survive it.  That's my lesson and my comfort.  We will get through it, whatever "it" may be because we already have .
 
Dear DG, you are a resilient and wonderful, loving, giving woman still and so it shall always be.  It's a joy to read your words again. 
 
With much love to you this morning...
 

   
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/22/2007 8:04 AM

Hi Jude!

Big hugs for you and I have to say I have always loved your name--for some reason it makes me feel the calm that is about you--practical is such a good work.

Thanks for your thumbs up on my recovery evolution. It's true, and yet, oddly enough I did not want this new N to be an N. I tried to pretend that he was Bipolar. And by pretend I mean "fit him into a mode of mental illness that I could "fix". Not fix, actually, but have enough compassion for that I could overlook my own needs.

By the way--this thinking was so insane and innapropriate to having JUST met a new human being.

Then, because the universe is kind, my sister sent me a book called "Why Is It Always About You". And voila--suddenly the N behaviors fit--and to be fair, the newN could be both-ish.

As soon as I "accepted" this notion/diagnosis it was easy to revert to "whoa, this is the deal and it will NEVER change".

Hope for this shallow rapport evaporated and I saw that I, again, needed to focus on my recovery--refinding what my life was about.

And yes, you are right, it is GREAT to know what is up--because the recovery time is shorter. Once you really and truly know the deal, the denial turns into fact and you don't waver. There is still the pain over the loss because we did fall in love with the parts of a human being that desire to be lovely but can't sustain the energy because they are full of holes.

We get to feel sad because it is part of the deal of being a human being.

The freedom to move on is really a huge gift, isn't it?

Thanks Jude, for always being a positive beacon of light, I hope that all is going well in your world and that you are enjoying SPRING. I am in love with the daffodils and the cherry blossoms and the dogwoods at the moment. You?

Love&Light,

xodg
 

   

 
From: 2cute4words1963 Sent: 4/22/2007 8:04 AM


Hi Dirt!

Welcome back.
 
I learned a lot from your post and you articulate yourself in such a fun and good spirited way!!

Congratulations on getting yourself out of that Nmess and fast.

I learn so much from those that do. Seems you have found some joy in your life after your experience prior to this one and that joy prevented another slide too far back to N-ville. Seems to me, when we have good confidence, awareness and joy, there just isn't TIME for the N-drama/chaos train.

Blessings to you

2cute
 

   
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/22/2007 8:28 AM
 

Good Morning!


Hello and hugs for you--I feel all jump up and downy to visit with dear real friends.

Isn't it truly cool? We really have been through an emotional war together and are vets, aren't we?

I love what you wrote here:

••no matter how much better I am at spotting red flags, or how many narcissitic people I encounter, I still get burned sometimes because I'm sort of a trusting, hopeful woman.••

This is the big truth--and I think also the quality that attracts Ns to us--Ns always want to be adored/idolized and who better than a real human being. And yet one of my core qualities is a sort of HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL notion. I do see the good in others always. And I believe it in and will continue to do so. It makes me sad whenever I deal with a personality disordered person.

In some ways I don't understand why the exist in this world. But they do and so do I.

As you wrote:

••I guess, though, it is easier to discern in whom we should instill our trust when our compassion for ourselves is at its optimum and when fear isn't clouding our judgment, so for me, I'm trying to find that compassion for myself, not just when I'm feeling good, but even more especially when I'm feeling weak. That is not always easy, but I think it's key.••

Fear. Again, in hindsight, the N had qualities that seemed "greater than". These were illusions because we are all ALWAYS equivalent. I thought of him as professorial--but I am 40! This academic stature I gave to him in the context of our rapport unconsciously set up a "he is greater than me" notion. I wanted to learn from his brain--we shared a love of art but I know stuff too and I think the new lesson is that my pals are always equal and there is no greater than or less than. Your time is NOT more valuable than mine.

Reciprocity is always KEY.

Also--when you are getting a biopsy and the N blows off his "nursing duties" and tries to make you feel guilty for his GUILT (imagine my feeling BADLY about his SLEEPLESS night) and then does not follow up after you tell him you had a growth removed--uh, that's a red flag.

Kind of stunning, isn't it, how badly behaved they can be? In some ways the outlandish lack of empathy is STILL unfathomable.

And despite the blips of pain, I am grateful I can feel all of it--and feel the joys of life in such a grand way.

Thank you, dear friend, for always being a joy in my life. I see YOUR name and think YAY! And I am also happy to read that you are doing well and still in recovery mode and still taking care of yourself.

Back to that, always, and the rest is cake.

Big love for you--and I hope you find moments of joy in your day (right now the birds are chirping out my window and the trees are promising leaves--YAY)!

I love you,

xodg
 

   
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/22/2007 8:44 AM

 
Too Cute,

Thanks for your kind words of support and the blessings. I need to remember to count my blessings, as in, have gratitude daily.

N Drama does lessen when we are not as vulnerable. Sometimes I don't notice when I am in a low place. But my real friends help me through vulnerability. They are there consistently and I need to have the freedom to be "vulnerable" in order to have intimate relationships. I had every reason to believe the N was a real human being and he even demonstrated "vulnerabilities" with me. He shared some truths with me that are not known by others and he even said that I was the only person he had ever known with whom he felt he could be completely himself.

How could I not feel love and compassion there. And yet the man is in his 50s and that's a long time to spend on this planet and NOT be real with others.

No wonder I was left with his painmess to sweep up.

I am so grateful that the recovery this time is MUCH shorter. I am so grateful that the recognition of his disorder was MUCH faster.

We go on.

Take care 2cute. You are lovely and blessings to you too!

Love&Light,

xodg
 

   
 
From: DrGerbil Sent: 4/22/2007 9:12 AM


Dear Dirt Girl:

I am so happy to see your name on the board. Having the same initials as you has always tickled me, not sure why. I love how you were able to minimize the damage from this N-individual. Thank you for telling us about it.

I just started another thread about the VA Tech tragedy--I just realized I am still so triggered by how Ex acted about Columbine 8 years ago that I can't even watch the news.

I hope you can stick around for a while. I love your posts.

Dr. Gerbil
 

   
 
From: **** Sent: 4/22/2007 9:23 AM

 
I love you, too, DG. 
 
"Also--when you are getting a biopsy and the N blows off his "nursing duties" and tries to make you feel guilty for his GUILT (imagine my feeling BADLY about his SLEEPLESS night) and then does not follow up after you tell him you had a growth removed--uh, that's a red flag."--DG
 
Yeah, it is a red flag and you're so right that reciprocity is so critical to a relationship.  I dislike this N intensely for his disregard of you, DG. 
 
I am loving the weather right now myself.  It's a beautiful spring day here.  I started thinking 'picnic' yesterday and so that's what's on the agenda for later today.  I even made cookies and potato salad.  I justify this, of course, by telling myself that since the weather is nice, a few extra picnic-food calories won't hurt because I can now get outside and walk them off.  Now that's joy.  LOL. 
 

   
 
From: _CZ Sent: 4/24/2007 2:11 PM


DIRTGIRL??!!!!

WHOA...yup, we're still here!!! I'll respond to your thread after reading the whole thing but I just got back online and was so delighted to see your name on the list that i had to say something QUICK.
 
"Something QUICK"

 
LOL...Love,
 
CZ
 
 

 
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/24/2007 6:59 PM


Ah My Dear CEEEZEEE,

So good to see your name and THE ARK. I feel like God just protected my soul!

Just had a trigger with the new N and am feeling rather whoe-y. That dreaded woodpecker.

In good news, though, I should report that once I determined that I had to go into no contact mode I kept to my no contact contract. Today I wandered home and thought "it is getting easier and the memory IS fainter".

So just gotta hold on--life is moving on, though, again, I wish I had not met the N at all. The trail of pain is so much greater than the swift but intense moments of joy. At least I think it was joy. It mighta just been a "high" for the same aftereffect is in place. WITHDRAWAL. Going on a few months (that's the good bit). Amusingly, or not, I pretended this N was not an N because I felt more sorry for him--do Ns always work first to elicit sympathy? So you won't kill them when they hurt you so badly.

So, again, progress not perfection. The N in question was a very short lasting gig. The first N who laned me on these boards lasted TEN YEARS OR MORE.

And I just don't care about him anymore and that is a miracle.

No contact is the way out always always always. And thank God (or Noah) I knew how to build that ark.

So, stay the course, the pain will abate. One day at a time, eh?

I hope you are doing very very well!

Lots of Love,

xodg

 
 
   
 
From: 2cute4words1963 Sent: 4/24/2007 7:31 PM

Like total WOW!!!!

I can't even respond, your words are so powerful and so well intended and so articulate and so so so so!!!!

What a BEAUTIFUL soul!! A-fricking-mazing!

There are a few on this board that blow my ass away with their words. Some people have a gft for it, while others struggle and I understand that..........

but the flow of your words, the way in which you speak so well of your experiences, blows my mind.

Kinda like some others on this board that do the same, but they're all so different from one another............I HATE to use the word "unique", because I believe (and perhaps incorrectly) that that term is used in terms of narcissism, but...........

Each situation here is unique and offers a learning lesson for me.

I'm talking too much here.

You blow me away with your beautiful words and soulful reflection.

PLEASE write a book or consider doing so.

Wait, there are others here who also express beautifully and their personalities shine through..........everyone does. WOW.

I'm so impressed. Truly/ So blessed to be apart of this board.

2cute
 

   
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/25/2007 5:53 AM


Dear dear TooCute,

Thank you for your kind words and I have to say "right back atcha". It's amazing how we connect to language when it is really heartfelt (ie, honest). I think this forum is so wonderful precisely because it is safe and we can read the unbridled thoughts of others and think "wow".

I find that I negotiate my life wishing there was only honestly. The N in question has often been described by others as "affected" and "shallow". I've seen two sides. The deep side (the one I fell in love with) and this other person who is so off the mark I didn't often recognize "it".

Point is, Ns don't live in an honest place. And I come to the table thinking everyone is telling the truth which is a big WHOA to realize in the land of grownups.

(I had lying parents, so there you go).

Therefore, anyone who has the guts to be truthful ALWAYS blows me away. We do know the truth--it sets us free.

Tangling with an N made me feel like I was frolicking freely in the ocean when all of a sudden a giant wave knocked me down (the water was previously calm). I was then surrounded by rocky water with no clue as to the whereabouts of the sandy bottom, which could anquor my flailing feet or the air blessed sky so I could BREATHE again.

Hate that feeling. It's scary. And to disorient myself from an eNcounter like that takes way longer than I'd care to deal with.

We are al in that same boat (a rescue boat HA).

I love your enthusiasm--it shows spirit and is very attractive, meaning I want to join in and live the party!

I learn from everyone who tells the truth so thanks so much for reminding me of the healing power of all of our voices.

YAY US!

xodg
 

   
 
From: _CZ Sent: 4/25/2007 9:28 AM


Dear Dirtgirl,
 
Right after posting an image of the Holy Ship <wink>, MSN blocked me from access. Maybe four years ago, I'd have thought it was intentional but now that I'm completely healed and without residual issues of any kind <double wink>, I realize MSN sucks. When the purple screen on my monitor reads "We can't find that page....", I don't freak out in fear that the forum has been zapped right out of existence for not being Nice Enough.
 
We've been having repetitive problems with MSN this past year though they promise our service will get better soon. Kind of reminds me of what da maN I used to live with always told me. Hummmm..... msN, perhaps?
 

"Amusingly, or not, I pretended this N was not an N because I felt more sorry for him--do Ns always work first to elicit sympathy? So you won't kill them when they hurt you so badly."~DG

OMG! HAHAHA!!! With a straight face, I can tell you DG that the narcissistic people I've encountered generally rely on my pity and sympathy to set the emotional groundwork for the relationship. It's like a test of sorts and if we raise a furrowed brow in sympathy, we get dinner out. If our smile turns upside-down, we get roses. If we shed a tear or two in their behalf, we get an engagement ring. 
 
The more of our own issues we face, the less 'hooked' we are by other people's struggles. Perhaps the way it works is this: If I'm confident about managing my own life, my confidence in other people's ability to manage their own lives increases. Now this is a bit of Post-N-Wisdom gleaned from the school of hard knocks 'cuz my heart is pretty darn soft DG, and I empathize with other people's pain because I know my own so very intimately. However, when folks try to leave their pain with me or establish a relationship based on their pain, I don't pick it up. At least, I try not to. I still get hoodwinked...we all do. But my resiliency has increased and I'm not afraid to feel rejection. That's where we get ourselves stuck. Avoiding the feelings we fear we cannot tolerate! Oh, but we can...we can...we can allow those emotions to run their course and still maintain our integrity by not 'acting out'. It's not easy though. We've had to hide Mom's shotgun cuz she hasn't made the miraculous progress I have when it comes to hating the Ex.
 

"Recovery Part II is not easier emotionally, but because there are tools in place from everything I learned from all of you, the time of denial and bargaining was much shorter and I have a new set of red flags to throw on the playing field going forward."~DG

And THIS is why we keep WoN afloat despite doing battle with woodpeckers. Healing is not a short-term commitment. It's lifelong. I know, I know---it is not fair that some people get fabulous parents all wise and perfect while other people get selfish bazturds for parents. And it's not fair that some people have a genetic make-up similar to a Beach Ball being bounced from one rock to another and still floating. It's not fair that some people are born with greater resilience to loss, but the deal is: life is not fair. What happened to me was not fair...but what happened to me happened and unless there's some way to rewind my life, I'll just have to cope with it. My prediction is that I'll be totally perfect in about fifty more years which puts me just over a hundred. Considering the longevity in my family line, being a hundred years old is reasonable enough to be an assumption. Will you still visit me on WoN when the top question of the day is, "Were you able to poop this morning?" At least that will be progress from "Did your N like his poop?"

When we met years ago, you and I were learning about NPD for the first time and making connections that needed to be made in order to separate ourselves from the craziness. Perhaps we were naive about the Healing Process at the time, but I figured six months into the 'journey' and I'd be healed. Well, that proved to be grandiose thinking.  Three, four or is it five years later (who's counting?), we are still talking about 'healing'. That's not pathological. That's responsible. 

I am pleased, pleased, pleased that WoN is an emotional lifeline where you can take a deep breath, reground yourself and restore your spirit in the company of Friends. Friends who want to take care of friends and don't fear sickness more than the love they have for a sick friend. If your buddy was 'mirroring' you, imagine how terrifying it must have been for him to confront his own vulnerability? He could not get beyond himself to see you. Miserable existence being a N, isn't it?

Love you back!

CZ
 
 

   
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/25/2007 11:45 AM


Ah CZBZ,

Ya know, I can only start a post to you with this deep feeling of love for you. I love you so much in the truest sense of the word and I will be here for you when you wanna talk about poop.

(How's that for a lead).

It is so interesting to me how the joy is in the AHA moments here. You wrote:

••However, when folks try to leave their pain with me or establish a relationship based on their pain, I don't pick it up. At least, I try not to. I still get hoodwinked as Lynn said 'we all do'. But my resiliency has increased and I'm not afraid to feel rejection. That's where we get ourselves stuck. Avoiding the feelings we fear we cannot tolerate! ••

WHOA. BINGO. SHAZAM! EUREKA!

See, this notion was in play and I didn't even notice that was our brokered (unconscious) deal. From nearly day one the N used phrases like "I can't believe all this coincidence, we're joined at the hip. You and I are spirituall married".

My friendship with this N coincided with a big work project (accolades for him=attention, check). But he confided his insecurities to me. I did not know that he was about to be fired from his job (it was all "the others"). His mother was dying. His apartment was leaking and he was getting kicked out. Uh, also he was psychologically fragile. Duh.

I didn't run away because I had that Little Prince notion going--I was the LP and he was the scared fox. If only I sit still enough he won't run away.

Um, no.

This all happened so quickly, so I'll give myself a break there. It woulda made a good episode of CSI: INsaNity. He has a public mask and is either adored or loathed (those who worked for him HATED him). That is also a red flag.

In fact, when I look out over the battelfield I see a sea of crimson material flapping in the wind. Me, I've got a white surrender flag. And that has been the lesson. On some level I musta known but didn't want to believe (hello denial, we meet again).

And you are right. Recovery is for life. Also, I really am lucky in that I get to appreciate the trees and the grass and the birds chirping out my window. I have not harmed another human being today (yet, I kid I kid). I have the capacity to rectify harms done. MIRACLE.

CZBZ, you are an angel in the truest sense and thank you so much for being real. And for having the courage to go through your pain. Reading about my inability to tolerate rejection was powerful--I inadvertantly evoked the sense I was trying to avoid. He was always ONLY gonna reject me. So face what you fear. That person (N) was rejecting from day one. Shoulda kept him there. In his box. Now I know.

A million thank yous. I cannot tell you how you've changed my mood--in the bestest possible way because I will now go out into my day (to the airport) and spread happiness to everyone I meet--I want to be a productive and giving girl and I like being of service but that does not mean "being used".

Thanks for maintaining this incredible forum and for always welcoming me back.

I hope all is going well in your newish home (it's been awhile now) and with your family.

Know that you have made a great and positive difference in my love.

Much Love,

xodg
 

 
 
From: talia Sent: 4/26/2007 6:15 PM


Hi DG,
 
Just wanted to say that it's good to see you. I am sorry that you encountered another N person.  Hugs to you..
 
in support,
talia
 
 
 
   
 
From: _CZ Sent: 4/27/2007 10:48 AM

Dear Dirtgirl,
 
Between MSN and the internet service provider blocking me from cyberspace, I need a chill pill to calm my nerves! Sheesh! So while I can make connections with people, I'd best get my talking done.  I don't do so well keeping everything inside (LOL---Like you hadn't noticed!) and can't let too many days pass without writing at least one paragraph even if it's to myself. It's harder for me to say things in person than it is with a keyboard. Surely there's a disorder in the DSMIV somewhere, defining my problem? Keys Disease maybe. How about Write's Disorder? What's more likely, is that I have a mild case of social phobia. I learned about that 'disorder' from my son, the computer programmer, when he went to get help from the professionals. He figured this was a problem his MOM could not help him with.
 
We used to just say my grandmother's family was SHY but now I'm figuring they were social phobics. Thanks a lot, GRAMMA. Aren't genetics marvelous? We have a new way to beat ourselves up as parents.
 
I have to comment on something though and I was thinking about it yesterday when I had to self-sooth in a more functional manner than throwing books at my computer screen when I couldn't log on. And what came up in my mind was something wonderful about your progress whether you realize it or not (and most times we don't see the changes in ourselves, do we? That's cuz real change is SLOW). What is so important for all of us is not fearing intimacy with other people. We must risk being hurt again because otherwise, we end up bitter, hard-hearted, lonely icky people. Just like the narcissists we don't like. Taking a risk by opening your heart to Mr. MaN-friend was GOOD and it was BRAVE and it was PROGRESS in the right direction and you know what else? It was a MIRACLE.
 
I've been thinking about how miraculous the human heart is because even after someone tells us in painful painful ways, that they don't like us anymore---we go right on ahead and keep liking people anyway. Does it even make sense? I mean, wouldn't you think we'd be more self-protective than that? People are so amazing and incredible, DG...truly! We get knocked down and maybe some of us take a long time getting back up again---but when we do, we extend our hand to other people with even more love for them and faith in ourselves than we had before! So I just wanted to tell you that and I'm glad my ISP is granting me permission to follow through with my intentions. 
 

"See, this notion was in play and I didn't even notice that was our brokered (unconscious) deal. From nearly day one the N used phrases like "I can't believe all this coincidence, we're joined at the hip. You and I are spiritually married"."

 
Okay...red flag but not necessarily. Haven't you known people who felt drawn to you from the get-go and yet, they have remained good, reliable friends for years? I have. I've even felt that 'draw' to other people but usually didn't say so...especially after my experieNce with the X. Maybe the Red Flag was your friend's insistent repetition, almost like brainwashing or something? Most of us who feel 'the draw' are reluctant to say so and if we do, we sure don't repeat it a million times trying to drill it into someone's head. In fact, it's a spiritual feeling and usually, we keep spiritual experiences to ourselves. Not for fear of people thinking we're oddballs but because sacred stuff is usually best kept private.
 
On some level I musta known but didn't want to believe (hello denial, we meet again).
 
The thing is, how can we know? If we act on our intuition and we're wrong, then we've been judgmental. If we don't act on our intuition and we're wrong, then we're being gullible and in denial. After hanging out in the recovery movement for a few years now, I wonder about this idea of DENIAL as though we somehow KNOW more than we realize. maybe the truth is that we 'suspect' someone might have narcissistic issues but we also grant them the freedom to show themselves and us who they are? It takes a strong heart to do that but in a way, we offer them one more chance to beat their narcissism. If they can't do it, well, that sucks for us.
 
Increasing our emotional resiliency is what we need to do---not start deleting people right and left when we see the first Red Flag. Restoring confidence in our ability to heal from rejection is essential and then the next time a friend can't 'beat his or her narcissism', we only grieve the loss for a couple of days instead of weeks.
 
We'll always meet up with narcie people but we don't have to run away in fright when we pick up on signs they aren't 'attachable'. But we do need to set up boundaries and not start lying to ourselves. If we honestly admit that this person has 'N' tendencies without confabulating all sorts of nonsense in our heads about them, we might be able to steer the relationship in a healthier direction. What's more likely though is that the Narcissist will not be getting the feedback he or she needs and will stop pursuing us as good resources for building their egos. Stay Conscious at all times...ha! AS IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE.
 
Do you sometimes wonder if we're only awake about 10% of the day? LOLLOL!!!
 
Love,
CZ
 

   
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/28/2007 10:31 AM


Good Morning Talia,

Thanks for your nice hello. I am on the road and in the desert at the moment--feeling very spiritually open and healing. And in that spirit (though, no matter where I am) I send you love and healing wishes!

You have great spirit and I do so admire your commitment to your recovery. We heal others after we heal ourselves. I've always learned a lot from your posts.

Love, dg
 

   
 
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 4/28/2007 10:36 AM

Ohhh CZ,

I cannot tell you how wonderful your email was to read this morning. You are a true angel girl. And I so admire and respect your verve and your pioneering tendencies (WHAT)? I mean, you are a trailblazer and I really do honestly truly think that you are crafting new ideas in that brain of yours. Making a spiritual and psychological evolution on this board for those who land here.

I have so much to respond to in your post and have to reread it a few times and sit with it for a day or so because it is too GREAT a work to rattle off a quickie few words this morning.

I love you so much. And am also socially phobic but you would not know that--because I do have an outgoing personality.

I think "social phobics" are really ponderers. I need inner time. I prefer it to outer time.

Anyway, I type to you from the desert where the birds are insane with the beautiful chirping. I am so grateful for them because they are giving me these incredible songs. Listen for that today and marvel at this free gift from the universe.

Lots of love and more from me soon.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING YOURSELF. I am so grateful for your brain and your presence in my life.

Love, dg