From: flower Sent: 11/9/2005 6:31 PM Talia,
As far as the sexual issues being addressed, if the person is NPD or PPD, the sexual issues will not be addressed because that person will not voluntary seek treatment. Treatment will have to be court ordered.
Secondly, NPD or PPD is a personality/character disorder and that is not treatable. They will only go through the motions of being treated. Am I making sense? The treatment rate of those with pedophila or other paraphilias is just about zilch anyway. From what I researched, those with paraphilias are mainly NPD or PPD.
I think they may be talking about sexual addiction with women without pedophilia or other paraphilias. Pedaphilia s under the category of paraphilia, just in case you weren't aware of this.
Then, there is the double whammy or a NPD or PPD with substance abuse. And we all know the chances of them giving up their bottle of booze or fix, let alone their sexual buzzes.
What a mess, right?
Hugs back, Flower
From: talia Sent: 11/9/2005 6:37 PM Exactly,flower...guess, they has always been a part of society...but don't you think with the advent of computers,internet access....ie porn sites,where every paraphilia(?) can be found and indulged in...it's only going to get worse?
ughhhh
From: talia Sent: 11/9/2005 6:38 PM oopsie...they has = have been
From: flower Sent: 11/9/2005 6:51 PM Glory,
I am sooo thrilled that this thread has been able to help you. Thank God for the courageous members who are willing to speak up about their experiences. And those who don't, we know that speaking about their experience is still traumatic---and that is their choice. At least they are able to read and know that they are not alone and it is NOT their fault.
Similiarily, Glory, there was this degrading device that exN wanted to use on me. I had long buried the memory and haven't brought it up until recently because it was so freakn weird. He had discussed it with me; and I brushed it off with a nervous laugh; and it wasn't until I discovered that he had brought it with him and hid it. When I discovered the devious device then I began to really feel how weird he was and was way beyond something that I wanted to do. I have a feeling that this was the beginning of the end, but he made other excuses.
I too had those "what if" moments," but they disappeared when I started remembering that incident and other pieces of the puzzle that I put together.
My pride was taken too, Glory, but like me, you are better off without him. I believe if I would have succumbed to what he wanted, I would have landed in the psyche ward, feeling that my soul was taken.
As I noted before, the ante always has to be upped to get a certain level of stimulation for n/ps. Even after a woman relunctantly or is coherced into more humilating acts, these paraphilic n/ps are still predators and will be looking for other sources of stimulation. Consider yourself lucky to be out!
Love, Flower
From: Glory2Glory1 Sent: 11/9/2005 8:36 PM Flower,
I have one word for you: AMEN!!!
Glory
From: Rustilo1 Sent: 11/11/2005 2:21 AM Candy that was really interesting about him giving you degraded pics of him. He had you idealised and was testing both your loyalty and his control over you. It was very N not non - N behaviour i now understand. See my sadist n/p father puzzled me when i found out he sends his vics pics of him drinking uno what. Couldn't understand it as he is "the boss" and would normally in life be paranoid and on guard against anyone trying to "humiliate" him.
But i think they do mean it when they say "wouldn't make myself this vulnerable with another". You see they want a more special relationship than anyone else has - a unique special one as aren't Ns just unique and special - therefore they must think up some really bizarre ideas / rituals to "bond" your relationship with. They want to own you so like little kids do trades they give you something that represents you owning them. Means you owe them big - ie yourself.
The N is not genuine in giving himself to you as represented by giving you a "trophy" like a degraded photo. As he will be off as soon as it suits and will also feel that when he is out of sight ie yours he is free to do as he pleases while ur not.
With my dads slaves (I know from reading his websites) he is quite compulsive about some sort of symbolic wedding or change of ownership ceremony - it would normally involve mutual indecent piercings and revolting written contract.
Candy you said he was nterested in satisfying you in bed. In context of an N relationship i would interpret that fact this way. It wasn't really out of concern about you that made him want to please you. He was marking himself on his performance just like someone who sits a test they've studied for wants to score high. He probably read up on pleasing women. And probably prides himself on being "the man". So for his own ego he probably had to please you or rather get you off. I'm betting he was not deply concerned with your emotions but needed some physical signs he'd succeeded in pleasing you - for N supply.
You can bet the highlights of his sex life in order are - he comes (feels extra potent), he is able to truthfully tell friends and future lovers how much he pleased past lovers, he gets to feel potent by making a lover get off - seeing it is enough - hes not really interested in any of her "feelings" she might report - but will listen if word choice flatters his prowess.
I think a lot of males have narcissist streaks emerge in the bedroom. They are driven to sow their seed after all which to me seems a fairly narcissistic thing. I am suspicious of male sexuality after things some I'd say normal men have told me about how men are in the feelings department re sex.
But i do think it is an N thing for men as one guy told me the absolute worst insult / cold shower you could throw at a man - "have you slimed yet". I initially did not understand then the guy explained that that phrase essentially puts down a mans genetic "donation". Implication being - you are not the great gifted number one creator god whose child I'd be honored to bare but you are instead just some primordial soup cave man. The most powerful well timed insult known to mankind I'm told.
I think Ns sex weirdness all goes back to their extreme screwed up personalities and trying to rebalance themselves in increasingly weird and twisted ways. What they refuse to work on in therapy they seem to think can be cured through some ideal sexual situation they work feverishly to discover.
You'll find the Ns involved in BDSM are deeply involved in the psychological analyses of it all as this realm of life appears per their twisted logic to perhaps offer some hope of salvation from all that ails them. In BDSM they get to remove the mask - act primal, uncivilised, bestial - act out their shadow side and grudges / resentments/ mother or other hatred and still be ACCEPTED by another who they usually delightedly understand to also be motivated by acting out twisted or abusive pasts.
I believe many Ns see BDSM as treatment , a kind that is preferable to say counselling - as they get to dictate the "treatment" course ie only look at what they want and generally focus upon improving the other (the slave whose personality they annex not theirself). It also compares better to counselling as it is more theatric therefore exciting.
My dad typically plays the part of a mideaval knight to his wench slaves. And he pretends that through the developing great love (ie abuse more correctly) that he is being healed and is mutually healing the slave.
The clever Ns can be very complex and hard to pin down - they're just so bloody active in their secret lives while wearing the Mr everyday so boring mask by day. Yes that hollowness is there which they cover with a veneer of polite chit chat about the weather but what they fill that hollowness with in secret would make your hair curl.
Candy my predatory father currently has several slaves - in Tasmania, Canada, US and NZ currently. I hope he was not your ex. He goes by Master R***** or the false name John Harrison or his real name is B** R*****. He is dangerous to anyone who might read this.
From: flower Sent: 11/11/2005 9:12 PM Rustilo,
Your insightful and knowledgeable response to Candy on this topic, which is considered disturbing, shocking or even beyond words to many, reinforces exactly what I have been trying to inform the members here.
Your words: "In BDSM they get to remove the mask - act primal, uncivilised, bestial - act out their shadow side and grudges / resentments/ mother or other hatred and still be ACCEPTED by another who they usually delightedly understand to also be motivated by acting out twisted or abusive pasts."
Exactly! In their elusive language, frequently read on sites promoting bdsm, ethey use terms like "ying to my yang" or "soulmate, " which actually means, "I want a partner who will allow whatever I want to do." And many do indeed intend to "act out their shadow side."
Foresnic psychologists still do not know what n/ps will only fantasize about their twisted desires, while others ventually become triggered enough to act upon them.
Again, when you posted: " I believe many Ns see BDSM as treatment , a kind that is preferable to say counselling - as they get to dictate the "treatment" course ie only look at what they want and generally focus upon improving the other (the slave whose personality they annex not theirself). It also compares better to counselling as it is more theatric therefore exciting."
Yes it is a treatment. Yet I don't think many consciously see it that way. It is a cathersis for their pent up rage, hatred and frustration at women or Momma. These Ns aren't going to want to tarnish their public persona and admit to a counselor that they actually become sexually aroused when they crack their whip with tremendous force on their partner's rear, all the while saying, "Obey me you sl*t slave!
Many Ns do create their own world focused on medival times and refer to themselves as "lords, masters and sirs," while expecting their partner to call them as such, while they call their partner disrespectful name like slave-sl*t or slave-w***e, per example.
Your post again: "The clever Ns can be very complex and hard to pin down - they're just so bloody active in their secret lives while wearing the Mr everyday so boring mask by day. Yes that hollowness is there which they cover with a veneer of polite chit chat about the weather but what they fill that hollowness with in secret would make your hair curl."
Exactly. I read messages from women who actually were discussing about some sadistic Fortune 500 CEO. Apparently, one of the woman was introduced to him by a friend, later met privately and barely escaped with her life. When she tried to tell her story, she was NOT believed. How could such a respectable man be involved in such a thing was the response she got. Besides, money can often cloak deviancy.
Yes, "what they fill with that hollowness within would make your hair curl." It wasn't until I was emotionally suckered in that exN slickly brought up his desires, whereby he tries to fill up his hollowness because he cannot attach emotionally to anyone.
If I went into details about his device that he hid in his room, it would be triggering to many members. In fact, I had erased it out of my memory for a long time; and once I was emotionally strong enough, I remembered.
For those who may be curious about their hair-curling activities or still doubt that this goes on, do a search on a search engine and type in bdsm and that search will literally pull up hundreds of sites on that topic, many with sickening photos. Proponents call it "sexual freedom, I call it "sexual subjudgation" along with sadistic.
Thanks again for sharing your insights and story, Rustilo. It must be very difficult for you to post about your N dad like this. Rustilo, all these predatory Ns are dangerous and remaining silent on this topic will only allow for more predators to prey.
Love, Flower
From: *** Sent: 11/12/2005 1:37 AM Yes as the weakling f***head pitifully under-endowed XNH used to say proudly, "It's all about CONTROL". Sound familiar? Uh huh. They're a curious combination of pathetic and dangerous. Steer well clear, is my advice.
love, HW
From: Rustilo1 Sent: 11/14/2005 5:31 AM hI Flower,
this made me dwell subconsciously i think a few days - "Foresnic psychologists still do not know what n/ps will only fantasize about their twisted desires, while others ventually become triggered enough to act upon them".
Well I think my dad did not act on his perverted ideas till maybe last 15-20 yrs ie from age 45. Before that I think his catholic guilt upbringing and perhaps attempts to "be like everyone else in suburbia" (which he just never could be comfortable socialising with normals) served to inhibit him. I think he also did a lot of repressing via exploration of eastern spirituaity and meditation practises etc.
The only sign of abnormalities sxually i noticed as a kid was a huge hoard of playboys which he seemed to portray as evidence he was an uninhibited free thinker and a little risque. His playboy collection was deliberately left poking out of hiding places as I'd say he wanted to shock and be seen as risque red blooded.
First sign of trouble to me was when he turned 40 - found he'd inserted a childhood pic of me in his centrefold. Also noted he really leered at womens moo like never before. The misogyny came out as he continully referred to women seen on tv or wherever in reference to whether they had pleasing body parts "Ooh look how her hair sticks up - she should get it cut to look cute not to disturb viewers" ( re weather girls etc) and whether their appearance , voice , manner etc was appealing to him. One would feel sickened and dehumanised just listening to the constant objectification of women.
Then by the time he was 60 and D and Ded mum he was deeply into BDSM / swinging and even trading in paedophiliac porn eg innocent but naked baby pics of me for other kiddy pics, I believe. And he had built a pervert empire as he was / is the leader of a pack of well heeled pillar of society perverts. Perhaps the worst activities he does (barring the soul murder of my mother that he accomplished before her death) are things he regularly does to slaves met on net. He targets women with very abused pasts and offers to give them all they need to heal re mentoring in sick perverted ways. He pretends he would die for them. He gradually ups control and gets them to agree to reprogramming. He gradually breaches more and more boundaries ie subjects them to grosser and grosser stuff. Once he has he believes complete unconditional surrender he tests their "love" by breaking the ultimate boundary. He ties them up, sodomises perhaps even with other masked friends who unexpectedly enter the scene. Then within days he starts complaining of mysterious ailments (flu like) and drops the hint he has been going with men. His slaves then get really pissed off thinking he may have aids and have given it them. He then turns really nasty on them saying they have more or less failed the test to trust him completely.
They dump him and he gets all bitter and twisted not understanding why the game is over and they dont want to play anymore. He says they are deluded or have been led astray by friends etc. That he hates them for not realising they are his soul mate. He blames their "stupidity" on external to the "relationship" dark influences. One reason he now tries to isolate slaves geographically and moved to a remote place.
What led him to commit more fully to living his perverted fantasies - making a "lifestyle" out of psychological imbalance. A midlife crisis I believe. He lost his shirt (and mums slyly) in the sharemkt crash and was very humiliated and embittered as had seen himself as the quintessential 80s self made wheeling dealing millionaire aspirant but fell off that wagon due to the crash - big smash to his self image. He told me who was 17 then or so that he then felt "as impt as a piece of sand".
Then came sexual problems in the marriage as i think the financial hell he put mum thru caused her to find him less attractive - i recall she said that at their age (45ish) perhaps sep beds a good idea especially as the N snores. Or was this a euphemism for the M was getting a bit kinky. Supposedly his doiabetes shortly thereafter prevented hoim from "getting it up" for a while till he hit on an injectable treatment. Tho i dont believe it as i spied him having fun one on one while watching a video when thinking he was home alone once - no obvious problem from what i saw from gate at far end of section thru OPEN curtains.
I think he was probably playing round on mum from then on whether with hookers or whatever. Tho he had the whole world includsing mefooled that he would never ever be the unfaithful type - he had to as his financier / worker bee (mum) was very traditional and would not have tolerated any infidelity.
Then at 60 he finally came out with the D and D as he thought he'd hooked a young attractive blonde who was into all the sick scene he was and even better for a closet paedophile had several young kids. Mum sniffed out all the sick stuff he was into with that lady but unlike me she never sniffed out all the sequels and thought it a one off bit of madness. The ow dumped him pretty quick after he left mum ready to recieve the other fulltime. So Dad used the whole situation to humiliate mum and got back with her in a horror form becoming more of a brat than ever before. He "came out".
His explanation of his sick perverted interests was that he is free and open minded and so much more intelligent than mum which is why she couldn't understand his "interests". She was boring. He came out trumpeting proud and painted mum as the abnormal one - so inferior to idealised (yet also despised for dumping him) OW who had partaken in his perversions. He said he was not pretending anymore (its so tiring waring the mask so says Vak) - that while mum might not ever be able to connect with him on this level because of (sneeringly said) who she was - there was nothing wrong with him.
He now knew his true nature "aggressive / dominant" and there was nothing wrong with that and he was widely accepted and admired for it - obviously had dosed up on lge reciprocal N supplying amongst the perverts of the world. His pride in his aggrssion (read abusiveness per my interpretation) had been dangerously affirmed by his mixing in a perverted crowd. I think the company he kept plus developmental or midlife failures helped him move from mere inadequate N to active pervert abuser.
Hi Candy - I'm glad you're getting this all off your chest. My Dad is my N and I've not been in a rel with one (only a P once). But I have a couple friends in rels with Ns which are pretty grotesque relationships. And there has been this recurring theme of these friends reluctantly being nagged into anal. They feel this is simply about one sided physical satisfaction for the male and ? degrading them. I think any guy into this has a problem with females. It says to me that they wish to masturbate with your body and hopefully while avoiding seeing your face = dehumanising. It says to me they may sadistically enjoy the aspect that this could be physically painful for you. It says to me that they are not so turned on by the common sense orifice to make love to - why not??????????????????
I have never tried anal, had one boyfriend want it who was definately a freak and a P but he didn't get far before I put a halt to his nasty plan. Just knew it wasnt for me. I have seen porn and live sexshow in Hamburg of anal and I noted the somewhat aggressive violent looks on the active parties faces which made them look like what they were doing was not making love but something else - dominance - bdsm or something. Instinctively I feel this activity is a bit off and as a nurse i know it can cause continence problems which makes it seem like a silly carry on. Tho each to their own.
Any way my point was not to sermonise on bad sex but just to offer my observation. I think that the cultures and individuals that be enamoured of anal sex tend to be misogynist cultures and i have also seen a pattern of anal being rreal popular among Ns. I thoink its because its a less intimate yet still physically stimulating form of sex - perfect then for the Ns who dislike too much smothering closeness. Also perfect for Ns with small ones too. I know too that I have gay friends who do not engage in giving anal as they see the guys who are into this can be real users (objectifying them). Perhaps they too are picking up on N's about the place.
Sorry to speak at length about such an unspeakable subject. Might i just sum up my humble opinion here: If he wants to put it here there and other strange places eg the ear (LOL) theres a short circuit in his wiring somewhere - Anal? A definate red flag, I'm betting not many reasonably sensitive emotionally mature guys would be very fascinated let alone obsessed with this idea. Oh I could go on my last word tho is that only monkeys deprived of seeing their seniors mating (of normal socialisation in their species) attempt as adults to stick it in the wrong places and have real trouble locating the right ones. But just hang on - maybe the one advantage here is that Ns if ever anal won't breed. Oh well getting silly now - must be too late.
From: [name withheld] Sent: 11/14/2005 4:36 PM Wow... this thread is very enlightening... my N obsessed about toes, he had a bit of a foot fetish... I wonder what that means.
Is this BDSM common? Thank you for educating me, now I'll watch for signs for it.
I'm concerned about the calling the female a "slave" part because the person I have read about who did that was Bernardo and he killed his young victims afterwards. They had to call him "king" and Homolka, Bernardo's wife helped him subjugate them. But I thought that this was a very rare type of thing.
I can see mysogonist men act the way it was described above. Some men really do hate women for whatever reason, and what sends chills up my spine is that those men can often be the ones who have the easiest time charming females, including me.
I am so glad to get all this education here from you, my friends, I feel so much more prepared for life (at my age).
Shan
From: talia Sent: 11/14/2005 5:22 PM Rus...
Thank-you for sharing your knowledge and insights.
hugs,
talia
From: flower Sent: 11/14/2005 6:52 PM Shannon,
If he obsessed about toes, chances are toes are stimulating for him, thus to put it bluntly, "sexually arousing." And sex arousal is what fetishes are about. Even dirty underwear can be a fetish, YECK!
You ask:
Is BDSM that common?
Yes and No. It is more common than most people think, because most people involved keep it a secret. The initiator keeps it a secret for various reasons from protecting a superficial image to knowing certain acts are wrong or criminal. The target keeps it a secret due to embarressment, fear of exposing the abuser, feelings of guilt or hoping to bury the memory. There are varying degrees of BDSM, from mild roleplaying to severe physical violence.
Here is a link you may find interesting:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/john_robinson/index.html"The lucky victims walked away with mental and physical scars. The unlucky ones ended up dead, left to rot in sealed chemical drums. Still others simply disappeared into thin air like the clouds of dust that blow across the prairies on the Missouri-Kansas border."
Incidents like Bernardo are not so rare as you might think. The term, "slave" is used in bdsm, whereas that person does everything the controller wants her to do. Another term is "submissive," although not as severe as slave, this person still has to be subserviant to the controller.
Look at it this way, Shannon. You don't think that this guys got their women to break their boundaries, in varying degrees, by being azzholes from the get-go, do you? NO!
Most of them are charmers, at least in the beginning, and by using various techniques are able to manipulate or brainwash. And there are some women, though not many, who are actually into this type of thing---and that is for another post, LOL!
Love, Flower
From: Glory2Glory1 Sent: 11/14/2005 7:06 PM WOW!!!
This is extremely helpful to me. The N begged me for an entire night to allow him to perform anal sex on me. Now the thing is, the exnpd tried to kill me, and while I was passed out, he sodomized me. Thank God I have no rememberance of it, but I was told it happened while in the hospital. This was about 13 years ago.
I told N about this, how horrific it was to know this happened (and the ensuing pain, I did feel that). He went on and on about what a monster my ex was, and how if he saw him, he would try to kill him for it. Yeah, Right!
The night before the d&d, the n woke me up from sleep and for about three hours bagered me about anal sex. I told him I didn't want to, that it upset me to think about it, and plus it would hurt. His response? "Of course it is going to hurt, just like it did the first time you lost your virginity (which by the way he was my first lover ever 23 years ago.) He kept telling me he had some stuff that would make it easier in his bag. I kept saying no. Finally after hours of begging he said "Well, if you won't do it, I will just have to go find someone that will" He said this very viciously. I said "If you do, you can forget about me. I will leave you and not even look back" At this he lost it, grabbed my arms, pulled me close to him, and with tears in his eyes started moaning and whining "You're going to leave me, aren't you, you are going to leave me" He was panicked, I had never seen anything like it before in my life. I told him I didn't plan to leave him, but I would if he messed around on me. He immediately said "I never said I would" I didn't say that" And he acted as if he thought just because he said it, I was supposed to believe it. As I have said before, I was d&d that morning with some lamo excuse.
I have never been sure if the d&d occured because I refused anal sex (and he knew I had been raped and didn't seem to care) or because he panicked and thought I was leaving. Guess I will never know.
Thanks for letting me share.
Glory
From: Rustilo1 Sent: 11/15/2005 4:02 PM i THINK HE NEEDED TO DO THIS TO FEEL HE HAD POTENCY AND CONTROL OVER YOU. It seems that because he got your first virginity he thought he possessed you and was ENTITLED to do as he pleased with you. As he came "equipped" he had obviously built himself up to it and had high expectations. Suddenly he finds he has miscalculated - you still have your own mind - what a shocker. And having your own mind well that does make you big threat. My god - a malfunctioning partner doll with its own mind - thats just no good, very worrying for it could just chose to walk out on you when thats not your current plan. N shalt not be put at risk of losing control of the "game" of life.
I think you got dumped both for refusing his loyalty and control test (moderate N-injury as he has been shown that his true self is not all powerful in a literal failure to achieve a planned significant abuse). And for threatening major N injury (abandonment) just by showing that you still have some independence of mind ie ability to say no to a thing the N clearly deeply believed he could manipulate you on.
Not understanding N the story of his bedroom toolkit, his crying word games then his dumping you seeems all very bizarre - almost like comedy of the absurd. But understanding N it doesn't really and I bet similar scenes have beeen played out all over the place. Oh well thats my analysis anyway. Very sorry about your prior horrific experience and good on you for asserting firm boundaries with the crybaby sex sooky spoilsport.
From: Glory2Glory1 Sent: 11/15/2005 5:23 PM Rustillo,
How very astute of you. I don't know if you read how he had hacked my email for a year until I closed the account, then for the next four months for two other accounts continued to block me out of them. I have started thinking over the last few days, that this is all a ploy for him to regain his sense of control over me, only if in his own mind. I say that because I put the fear of God in him by threatening to leave. He is no way going to take the chance of that happening. But if he can keep me entrenched by his sick mind games of control then thats yummy supply for him, without the sloppy details of having to be in a relationship, or even talk to me.
Yuck!! They are sick Bas875ds.
Glory
From: flower Sent: 11/27/2005 3:44 PM Hi All,
It looks like there are more people who think that these self-proclaimed dominants in an alternative sex culture are mainly narcissists who use that culture, bdsm or paraphilias to justify their sadistic power over.
Below is an excerpt from a woman involved in that sub-culture who posted on a google sub-culture discussion group (mainly bdsm practicioners):
Here are the common characteristics of the bdsm dominants that I've lived with:
They are all sadists. They all sexually enjoy inflicting physical pain and mental distress.
They all see themselves as bdsm gurus.
All are acutely sensitive to humiliation. They are super-sensitive to any criticism, disagreement or slight. They all delight in inflicting humiliation.
They all have a grandiose idea of themselves, a superior self-image and a strong sense of entitlement.
They are all perfectionists.
I believe that they are all narcissists.
My relationship with each of them thrived while I was able to feed their narcissistic needs. My own masochistic needs allowed these narcissists to assume their chosen role. In a sense, I was a catalyst for their narcissism. I'm being non-judgmental about this. I got as good as I gave. Her post, "My relationship with each of them thrived while I was able to feed their narcissistic needs."
This does not happen only in a bdsm context. It happens in a what is considered a "normal" relationship, if you can call being in a relationship with a narcissist normal, LOL!
No one is a complete robot and sooner or later the partner of a narcissist will say enough is enough. When that happens, it is when the proverbial sh*t hits the fan. Different scenerios can happen. The narcissist can pontificate, fly off in a rage, sulk, become violent or walk out. The bliss of the partnership starts to disintergrate and no longer thrives.
Below is a reply to the person who posted:
"So does that mean that all dominants are narcissists, or does it simply mean that the people you are attracted to are narcissists?"It's been my experience that people often tend to be attracted th the same qualities in their partners again and again, and that when someone makes a statement like "all men are 'insensitive clods" or "all women are lying bitches" or "all dominants are narcissists," it actually says more about the qualities the speaker gravitates toward than it says about men, women, or dominants in general.
The way I understand this response is like trying to blame the messenger and saying, "You asked for it."
There are more responses to the poster, and if anyone is interested, just ask on this thread and either I will send the link to the managers to forward on or post the link on here. I am not sure if it is quite appropriate to post the link because it may thoroughly tick people off or trigger them. It is like being in the middle of a convention filled with narcissists.
Hugs to all,
Flower
From: david-at-bullyeq-dot-com Sent: 11/28/2005 4:08 AM Can anyone make sense of Ns who are BDSM submissives ? There is a huge army of prostitute women dominatrices out there who men pay a lot of money to be abused and humiliated. As I understand it, many of these men hold powerful positions such as being court judges. It seems to me that some powerful people (maybe Ns) want to role play at being abused as a sort of role reversal like in pantomimes men dress as women and vice versa and in Ancient Rome there was a special annual event where the masters and slaves switched roles.
If it is Ns who like to act submissively in role play what might they get out of it ?
David
From: Rustilo1 Sent: 11/28/2005 4:33 AM Hmm, I see it like this, just sometimes they get sick of lording it over and being the big bad wolf. They know they are windbags and get a bit up in the air feeling at times evven for their liking as being the top dog does seperate you out. Its like they ar big ballons and this ego air just keeps expnding in them until it feels like the ballon might burst- so in getting a bit humiliated its like a release valve, it can bering them back to a bit more having their feet on the ground - or feeling able to relate to the rest of humanity who they constantly spit on.
Either that or its a twist on guilt manifesting not as guilt cos they are never wrong but instead as self hatred for never being able to be wrong let alone human. Its weird uno- every now and then this worm turns on her N/P dad and lets him have a torrent of n-injuring verbal abuse (bout every 2 or 3 yrs a build up from having to bite the tongue). The odd thing is he is never hurt or traumatised as a normal would be - he seems to be invigorated by it, see it as a challenge to haul me back in and get me back onside and I think a part of him likes the humiliation i inflict at such times.
Perhaps he is in the victim triangle as he came from a dysfunctional family and feels these ebbs and flows of abuse are normal and somehow comforting - like that he had it coming as he knew he'd been having a good long torment of me. Maybe he even feels there is something just and fair about me ripping into him ior maybe he just likes to see a woman wild as that confirms his misogynist theories we are all crazy and then he won't have to feel jealous of the lesser female mortals.
Hey Flower, I'm damn sure that ladies comments would go down like a lead sinker in that group. that reply even sounds like it came from a cerebral with no emot intelligence too. Got the transcript - ur talk was excellent too.
From: flower Sent: 11/28/2005 8:06 PM Hi David,
I had a long interview awhile ago with a guy who considered himself a switch. Originally, he said that played the role of dominant in a scene. And I thought WTH? So, I asked him why the "switch," LOL! He replied that he wanted to see what it felt like after being the dominant for so long. He said that after so much strategically induced pain in increased increments that his body went into a surge of an incredible high, almost like a crack high. I even couldn't relate to that analogy being a non-drug user. He said that he became addicted to these surges he got doing this.
From what I researched, when the body is subjected to increasing levels of pain, endorphrin levels in the body increases to protect the body from pain---this is often referred to as an endrophrin rush or surge.
Here is the whammy: He informed me that his body increased its tolerance to pain. So in order to get an endorphrin rush, his body needed more pain, of which he ended up with a paralyzed testicle, thanks to a paid dominatrax, LOL.
So, David you ask: What may they get out of it?
Either an endorphrin rush, paralyzed testicles or reenacting a childhood trauma with Momma, LOL!
You are right about these pillars of the community seeking the services of a paid dominatrax.
Flower
From: flower Sent: 11/28/2005 8:32 PM Hi Rustilo,
I think your psychological interpretation about them in the submissive role as quite accurate.
This guy I interviewed never did get to in depth about his feelings about wanting to be humilated.
At some level, certain Ns know they have it coming to them. I discovered that the N wanted his ex-wife to get angry with him. It is like he felt he deserved it. And your post brought back a distant memory of when I last saw the N. I don't remember the conversation, but I knew that he knew he did me wrong and calmly said, "You can just slap me now." Yep, as if that was going to absolve him of stringing me along all that time under false pretenses.
As shocked and hurt as I was at that time, I instintively knew I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of slapping him, even knowing that he deserved it.
Rustilo, I don't think we are ever going to figure them out completely. Their reality is so much different than ours and is infused in their psyche. You can't always make sense out of a disordered self-serving mind.
Exactly. That woman's comments went down like a lead sinker, LOL! They were mostly blaming her and proclaiming the joys of D/S.
Love, Flower
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