"If Men Could Talk"

[eyes_up]

I read an entire book on Sunday titled "If Men Could Talk" by Alon Gratch Ph.D.

The book was a bit of a trip up because it tells more about men than I have ever read before. It definnitely goes into Narcissism and even coins a term called the anti narcissist.

Table of contence reads as such:

Men are difficult

Shame

Emotional Absence

Masculine Insecurity

Self-Involvement

Aggression

Self Destructiveness

Sexual Acting Out

I think one of the things that stood out for me was that men use sex to do all kinds of other things. i mean the range is quite large. So, they really do think through their genitals. It isn't necessarily about being attracted to some one if that makes sense. Kind of changed elaborated on my perceptions of men and  their sex.

I recommend the book especially if you are still considering dating.

I wouldn't say that I am all too sure about the structure the author provides but it doesn't seem to be too far off.

Also , the points on Male Aggression and self involvement were real eye openers. As a female I should be knowing this stuff.

Cheers,

eyes_up

[SusyP14]

Another one to add to the Amazon list.  Yikes, the list is endless!

[eyes_up]

Another interesting thing I recall from this book, and this stand for all humans...is that people will do seemingly non sexual things that are essentially about sex as well as do sexual things that have nothing to do with sex.

men have the over all tendency to act out of their feelings of shame and aggression. This means they project it and or transfer it on to others such as partner.

So, If a man got reprimanded or in any way feels his job or his power is not up to par ...he will greet his partner with aggressive behavior, not see it as aggressive (unconscious) and it comes out in many ways included what happens between the sheets.

What looks like a lot of narcissistic attributes or self involved are unconscious means to separate from shame.

While men tend to be shamed due to less power or behavior...that is what the whole male ego thing is saying...Women tend to do be more body oriented when it comes to shame. This is not a black and white deal and men now days are becoming more body saturated...so performance and attractiveness - the lack of create shame.

Yet what isn't surprising is that men as a whole are self involved where as women have been socialized to be the care taker of other. It would be nice to get some awareness circulating and balance it out a bit.

[CZBZ]

It's also important to know that narcissistic women (pathological) use Sex to gain power over men. I guess we could say that pathological women think through their genitals, too. 

Because women have been socially programmed to inhibit sexual instincts, I wonder what impact our sexually-open society will have on gender roles? Seems to me that anyone who might fear intimacy, have a shallow emotional awareness, lack the ability to bond, and use power to shape relationships, might be inclined to use SEX as a substitute for emotional connectedness or even a way to control a partner.

That's not to say we don't 'objectify' women as sexual objects in our society. Men do it to women and women do it to themselves.

I think we're a big fat mess.


Just ramblin' 



P.S. I'll see if that book is available at our library!


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

This is a link granting a preview of Alon Gratch's book. He's a clinical psychologist working mainly with men.


Amazon.com link: http://www.amazon.com/If-Men-Could-Talk-Unlocking/dp/0316178683

[eyes_up]

I was thinking "mess" as well.

eyes

[SusyP14]

The book was not in my local library   , but I got a new copy from Amazon for $5.00, so not bad!!!  I figured if 'eyes' thought it was that 'eye' opening, I better take a look at it.

[skater]

Sounds like an interesting book. For those of us raising boys who don't want them to end up like this I found "Raising Cain" http://www.amazon.ca/Raising-Cain-Protecting-Emotional-Life/dp/0345434854 very enlightening as well.

[eyes_up]

Raising boy would be a challenge in that what you teach will be countered by the entire social conditions every where else.
that is one tough job Skater.

eyes

[CZBZ]

I also purchased a used copy from Amazon since the library didn't have the book. But hey guess what, Suzy? I got it for three dollars. hehehehehe

Since I have a son and since he likes his mom a lot and since I really like him and since he and his sister are very close with one another, this book might give me added insight to the challenges he faces as a young man with a big heart but not so good at social skills. He's a computer programmer, need I say more?

If a girl is smart, she'll pay more attention to a man's relationship with his mother than she does to his winning smile and deep stare and over-the-top compliments. My son would love to marry and have a family but well...he says 'all the girls like bad boys' so nobody gives him much attention. 

He is a gentle person with a golden heart...which only goes to show how resilient kids can be, even in dysfunctional families.


Hugs,
CZ

[SusyP14]

I also purchased a used copy from Amazon since the library didn't have the book. But hey guess what, Suzy? I got it for three dollars. hehehehehe

Haha ... you win CZ ...    

Since I have a son and since he likes his mom a lot and since I really like him and since he and his sister are very close with one another, this book might give me added insight to the challenges he faces as a young man with a big heart but not so good at social skills. He's a computer programmer, need I say more?

Your son sounds lovely and I hope that one day he will meet a quality girl that can appreciate him.  My friend has a brother that is the same way; he is an electrical engineer - very smart, very sweet, but extremely shy and therefore he has trouble meeting girls.  Hopefully the right girl will come along for both of them!

[eyes_up]

Males who are in touch with feelings must have it hard dealing with men and then dealing with women who are looking for their big protector.

Being different rather than being a product of mass conditioning is always a challenge but it is doable.

eyes

[stunned]

If a girl is smart, she'll pay more attention to a man's relationship with his mother than she does to his winning smile and deep stare and over-the-top compliments. My son would love to marry and have a family but well...he says 'all the girls like bad boys' so nobody gives him much attention. CZBZ

You are soooooooooo right!  I am 56 years old and my grandmother told me exactly that! She always said, "Look at how a man treats his mother, because that is how he will treat his wife."  And you know what?  I have found that she was soooooooo right.  In fact, looking at the men I have known, my grandmother's advice was right on.  No exceptions.

[SydneyFireworks]

I agree that how a man treats his mother is an important determining factor in how he will treat his wife… but only up to a point. 

On first meeting Tosser, it seemed like he had a great relationship with his mother – he told me he spent a lot of time with her, called her often, valued her opinions, etc. etc.   It wasn’t long before I realised his relationship with her was really unhealthy, especially when he said she was the most important person in his life, his best friend and the captain of the ship.   

He WORSHIPPED her beyond any sense of normality.  He called her several times a day, every day, he constantly deferred to her demands (which were many), cancelled important arrangements with others because she needed him to change a light bulb or something similarly minor (in spite of her daughter and son-in-law living right next door).  He was an hour-and-a-half late for our first date because he was chatting on the phone with mother (he continued on the call for a further 20 minutes after arriving at my place) and their conversation was simple chit-chat which he could easily have closed down.  When he finally finished the call he told me “No-one comes before my mother”.

So yes, how a man treats his mother is important.  He should call her regularly (but sometimes forget to do so);  he should help her out when he can (but delegate to others if possible, when he has prior important arrangements in place).  When his mother is among his guests at a party, of course he should make sure she is comfortable… but not to the point where he ignores his other guests.  And he should be honest enough with his mother to be able to tell her he can’t talk on the phone any longer because he’s going on a FIRST DATE!! 

Tosser treated his girlfriends (of which there were many) abominably!  Nothing like the way he treated his mother.

Hugs
Syd

Edited to explain that I knew Tosser for a few weeks before we actually went on a "date" LOL

[Proud2B]

I'm on the opposite side - I tell my son, who is 22 and still living at home, that a smart woman will watch how he treats his mother.  ha!  That comment usually follows on the heels of bad behavior on his part, meaning sometimes he gets a little excessive with the 'friends before family' attitude - to the point where he has promised me something, usually for a month or two, we set the date, and he makes other plans.  To his credit though, he has, on occasion, cancelled his 'other' plans.

Anyway,  I tell him if his girlfriend is SMART (and they always are), she will be keeping a watchful eye.  And if they don't know about that little gem of wisdom, I make sure they're clued in.  That poor son of mine.  He doesn't stand a chance, now does he? 

Proud

P.S.  Just to be clear, I'm very proud of my son.  He's a good kid, kindhearted, funny, smart, and hardworking.  And he does a pretty good job of taking care of himself.  Except for the part about keeping his room clean.