A recent tragedy breaks my heart this morning...

[CZBZ]

Dear all,


Our family has been dealing with a recent tragedy that is a little bit 'too close to home', bringing up a lot of feelings and thoughts we rarely talk about---but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Our fears are hard to face...We hope for the best but always know that while we are doing everything we can to support my nephew, he will always be vulnerable to suicidal thoughts as a result of his biological depression.

The stepson of my sister's good friend, committed suicide last week. He was 16 years old, talented, very intelligent, very loved, very interconnected to family members and yet, he hung himself from the family's balcony overlooking the city. His parents found him after returning from a search (including three helicopters) urging him to come down off the mountainside where he was running from rescue crews. By the time his parents gave up searching for him and returned home, they found him hanging from a rope tied to the two-story deck. He had evidently been planning to kill himself prior to running away from home. I cannot put their traumatic grief into words.

His funeral was yesterday, attended by hundreds of people who knew the family through their work in Alanon and community service. His stepmother was actively involved in her stepson's life, as was his biological father who divorced his first wife because of her alcoholism and drug addictions when their children were young ( I believe this boy was about five years old at the time). The biological mother attended the funeral services, too. Several people held her up as she staggered into the chapel...blaming the stepmother and her x-husband for causing this young man's death. The horror of her narcissism, irresponsibility, and projected blame will forever be imprinted in my mind and heart. There is only so much people can do to help children who have been traumatized by alcoholic parents who never take responsibility for the impact of their behavior has on their children. Narcissistic parents who are more concerned about Escaping Reality than  Facing it. As a result, the children left to deal with a parent's selfish neglect and emotional abandonment when they are far too young to realize it is not 'their fault'...that they did not 'cause' the alcoholism, that they are not defective or unworthy of love. As devoted as stepparents may be in reassuring a child that they are loved and worthy, parents cannot resolve all of a child's problems.

The sadness is that this young man took action to end his life before he was old enough (psychologically) to work through the devastation of a narcissistic parent who did not love him as he deserved to be loved and protected.

I cannot help but reflect on the changes in our society that defeat parental influence in the home. Despite our influence as parents to model healthy lifestyles based on principles of compassion and 'meaning', the outside world is invited into our homes in surreptitious and devastating ways. Our culture has more influence over our children's lives than it ever has with empty values of self-serving behaviors and to me, hedonistic emptiness of self-pleasure at all costs to others.  

We cannot ignore the social influence that is gaining headway over parenting, even the best of parenting. We also cannot ignore the impact of a narcissistic parent who is unable to love and support a child in the way a child needs to be protected and loved.

This young man had a personality change a few months ago. He began withdrawing into his computer, ignoring activities, activities that no longer gave him pleasure. Because he began having problems in school and was suddenly isolating himself in a way he never had before, his parents were counseling with a psychologist to see if he might have bipolar. Because psychologists are reluctant to diagnose a child with bipolar or put them on medication without a thorough diagnosis, he was not being treated for a potential genetic condition that he likely inherited from his birth mother. The sadness is that bipolar can be treated effectively with medication if it is caught in time, especially before the child has his-or-her first mania.

Everything this young man needed to get his life in order was already in place: supportive parents, a devoted father and stepmother, therapeutic involvement, friends and family and extended relationships, activities and intellectual pursuits in which he excelled (he was a genius with languages) and was interested and yet, his biological predisposition and his narcissistic birth mother (always causing strife and problems for her children), were too much for him to overcome.

I am tearful today and also humbled. There is only so much we can do as aware adults; for, despite our attempts to 'fix' what was broken when a narcissistic parent was more concerned with him-or-herself than their children's best welfare, our 'fixing' is countered by a narcissistic culture and genetic predispositions over which we have little power or influence.

Children today face an empty proliferation of dissatisfying role models placing fame & fortune above relative obscurity and normality, self above others. And what can I even say about the pain of knowing a blessed child was born with a genetic predisposition that will be a life-long challenge for both the child and those who nurture him-or-her. It is humbling to admit to ourselves that as parents, we are not omnipotent; our desire to ameliorate a child's problems is beyond the scope of our influence; we cannot seclude a child from the harsh realities of life in a narcissistic culture. We do what we can do to support them but in the end, we are helpless to save them from harm caused either by others or by themselves.


Hugs,
CZBZ
 

[honeybearII]

CZ, I am so terribly, terribly sorry.  This is such a tragedy, and so unnecessary, but unfortunately is repeated endlessly in our culture that protects perpetrators and does little, if anything, to shore up the victims of narcissism.  We glorify "me-ism" at the expense of our children and narcissistic, self-serving parents and partners are glorified and held up as role models for having the "courage" to follow their dreams.  Sick.  Just plain sick.

We are throwing our children, the next generation, into a hell not of their own choosing.  I am glad that I will not be around to see how the next generation makes sense of what WE have left them as a legacy - a groundless, unethical and selfish society.

Honey

[neveragain]

CZ,
What a horrible tragedy....my heart and prayers go out to the family and friends of this young man who didn't see a way out and ended his life.  Sometimes, and I guess, most times, there is really nothing we can do but, pray and ask for some divine intervention to help out.  We are truly powerless.  We can't undo someones thoughts about themselves....their life....their problems, no matter how much we try to love those thoughts out of them.....it just doesn't work.


My hope is that the family will be able to work their way through their grief without anymore insane bashing from his Mother, she already caused enough pain and damage.

[CZBZ]

Thank you, honeybear and neveragain. The sad thing is that most people do not understand why a child commits suicide and in their attempts to console grieving parents, say all the 'wrong things'. Things like "Didn't you notice he was depressed?" and "Why didn't you help him?" along with unspoken judgments about their 'parenting'. Maybe most people are trying to understand 'why' so they can reassure themselves that their own children will never do something like that.

In a culture that reveres the sickest amongst us (like celebrity figures and reality tv jerks) and 'normalizes' abnormal behavior (like calling each other 'emo' when they're emotional), I wonder if 'suicide' is being normalized, too. It makes me so sad for teenagers who are inundated with nihilistic thinking when they are psychologically incapable of making sense of the world OR thinking beyond the immediate.

It's so tragic...I hope the parents will be able to work through the unspoken and spoken judgments they've already faced from other people. Had we, as a family, not also relinquished our omnipotence to the 'reality' of my nephew's mental problems, we might not understand teen-age suicide either. It's so unfair to blame parents and absolve society of the responsibility to provide a healthy platform for one another's children.

Love,
CZ

[eyes_up]

CZ, I have never hear of "emo" But I get the point. My sympathies for the family and the boy who was so young.

 I have known young people as a young person who committed suicide and knew their story. It is intense to observe/experience such a final choice.

Peace,

eyes

 

[talia]

Very tragic news, CZ.
((hugs))

[BlueSky]

That is so sad.  It is a difficult thing for many of us to wrap our heads around and when it happens to people we know and love, it can hurt so very much. 

I had a friend that completed a suicide many years ago when we were in our 20's.  She was likely bi-polar, was quite depressed at times and had attempted it before, so some people knew about it.  Some didn't but still could tell she was struggling.  They told her pastor in the hope he could help her somehow.  Her mother seemed to be somehow accepting of what was going on - as far as I know, she didn't actively do anything you'd have expected to help her daughter.  Another close friend did encourage her to go to counseling.  But my friend never got help.  I think she knew she needed help, but she didn't pursue it.  I sometimes think that the way she was brought up had something to do with that.  I think her mom did the best she could as a single mom (unfortunately, her parents were divorced and she rarely saw her dad), but looking back, it seems my friend, although very smart, had a hard time dealing with setbacks.  I recall conversations I had with her, and she'd tell me things that indicated to me that she knew she had problems - just seemed like she couldn't see other choices or pathways.  

The thing that was the hardest for me to hear was something her aunt told me later that same year.  That she had gone to see her mother in the hospital (her mom had had a surgery) and told her that when she got out of the hospital she'd be gone.  Supposedly, her mom said 'ok'.  Her mom was still in the hospital when she completed her suicide.  I do not know for sure what really happened with her mother - if she was too foggy from meds (?), and I still recall how eerily calm her mom was at the funeral.  Could have been pain meds.  But I also think about when my friend disappeared for a weekend.  Her mom reported her missing, but didn't seem that upset or agitated about it.  When I mentioned to the police that my friend seemed to be having troubles, my friend's mom really came after me once my friend showed up.  'No one talks about my daughter like that!', was what she said to me.  I think she had problems of her own, too. 

The emotions I dealt with for the next few years were many and so intense.  You always wonder if there was something you could have done or something someone else could have done.  In my friend's case, I don't think there was much I could have done as our friendship had been dissolving for some time and we hardly saw each other the last few months of her life.  Still, the hurt was incredible as I'd known her since elementary school.

CZ, I hope that you are able to get through this tough time OK.  I'm sending my best wishes.

[SusyP14]

What a sad and tragic story.  I hope that the father and stepmother can somehow manage to NOT internalize the N parents comments.  Suicide may be the most difficult of all deaths to deal with by those left behind.  The ever lasting questioning of if only this or that, then a different outcome would have occured.

[Sadie Wu]

Dear CZ,
About 12 years ago we lost a sweet boy to suicide.  His mother was my best friend.  She and her husband literally saved me during my childhood of abuse....I was their babysitter....so I was there when this boy was born, and was his babysitter for the 1st several years of his life while his Mom taught music lessons.  When his depression finally got bigger than he was, he was a young married man......I wish I could remember the exact words that were spoken at his funeral, because it was one of the most beautiful talks I had ever heard.  It was given by the father of his young bride.  He said something to the effect that he knew people would be prone to talk, but that he wanted everyone to know that they were aware of this young man's depression when he married their daughter, and that they weren't sorry, because of what a great person he was.  He said that if we had all been in that room that day because the young man had died of a heart attack, no one would be tempted to wag their tongue, and what he wanted everyone to understand was that what had happened was not so very different....it was just an attack of a different part of his body....like an attack of his mind that he had not control of.....that just got the better of him, and that it was not the result of bad parenting, or a bad life, or even being a weak person....it was likely physiology.....That was so powerful, especially being delivered from a man who now had a daughter that this young man had just made into a widow......but what insight.....

I remember a therapist telling my friend after her son's suicide that he felt like we would see more and more suicides among our youth simply because our world had become so intense....there are so many demands on kids to keep up with technology, and like you said, the whole "me" thing....he said it was his opinion that there are just some people who are born as too gentle of souls to handle the demands of living in a world that is emotionally detached and high-paced, and that he thought more and more of them would just give up.....Personally, although it is not proven, it is my opinion, just from working with autistic kids, and having a daughter who I believe is high-functioning autistic...that that is why there is such a rise in autism.....I think that is their way of "opting" out of a world that is over-stimulating them....Some choose suicide....others choose to go someplace in their mind to find peace, but not leave the world completely.....either way, it is a price we have paid for having too much.....


It is painful to lose someone you love, particularly in this way, but 12 years later I can tell you that the pain mellows.  I never forget, and I know that neither do his parents, but the pain mellows and somehow the rest of us find a new way to keep going on.....Hang in there.  I am sorry for your loss.
Sadie Wu

[CZBZ]

"The emotions I dealt with for the next few years were many and so intense.  You always wonder if there was something you could have done or something someone else could have done.  In my friend's case, I don't think there was much I could have done as our friendship had been dissolving for some time and we hardly saw each other the last few months of her life.  Still, the hurt was incredible as I'd known her since elementary school." ~Bluesky


Being able to contain those emotions and grieve our losses might sound like a normal thing to do but from what I've witnessed with narcissistic people, they defend themselves against such powerful emotions because they cannot 'resolve' them. I was speaking with one of my sisters yesterday who is also 'sad' about this tragedy even though neither of us knew the child nor his parents. We both empathize with what the parents must be feeling...our empathy being a vehicle to deeper contact with ourselves and our own fears about suicide. Because there are a couple of people in our close family who are bipolar, suicide is always a potential though we try not to let our fears 'change' our behaviors. In other words, raising my nephew is a bittersweet experience because we recognize that there is only so much we can do to help him. We'd like to believe that everything will turn out hunky-dory and all children who are loved and valued will recognize their worth and be able to overcome depression and self-destructive behavior. Being comfortable with our powerlessness is not a cognitive process...Maybe we grieve our 'what ifs' and come to a place of acceptance so our actions are not being guided by 'fear' or 'defenses'???

My daughter had a very good friend who killed himself while they were in college together. She attended his funeral and witnessed his mother's grief and all the sorrowful people who were suffering because of what he had done. She came home that weekend and fell into my arms swearing that no matter how desperate she felt, she would never do something like that to her mother. I don't think most kids are capable of seeing into the future and understanding that the way they 'feel' in the moment is Temporary...that This Too Shall Pass. That they will be able to cope with their pain and become stronger because of it. Recognizing the transience of overwhelming feelings requires time and maturation and experience. Until my daughter was able to attend her friends funeral, she had not considered Other People's Pain...just her own. Just her own. It was a life-changing moment for her.

Maybe some people are vindictive about suicide and their 'suicidal aggression' is intended to harm other people. I don't know. For our young teenagers though, I think their 'natural' self-centeredness and limited empathy for their impact on other people, along with a lack of experience in facing and overcoming challenging emotions, might be a dangerous precedent for suicide. Because another boy had killed himself only two weeks prior, it makes one consider the 'cluster' effect of teenage suicide. It appears to be a 'way out' and unfortunately, our kids lack the psychological maturity to imagine a better future than the Moment.

Thank you, Eyes_Up, Talia and Suzy, for your sympathy. I will pass everyone's condolences to my sister.......


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

"...He said that if we had all been in that room that day because the young man had died of a heart attack, no one would be tempted to wag their tongue, and what he wanted everyone to understand was that what had happened was not so very different....it was just an attack of a different part of his body....like an attack of his mind that he had not control of.....that just got the better of him, and that it was not the result of bad parenting, or a bad life, or even being a weak person..." ~SadieWu


People are prone to talk and in their 'shock', say the dumbest things. I do it, too and usually go home berating myself for saying such a stupid thing to someone who was grieving. We want to find an answer and figure out WHY a child commits suicide so we can feel safer, better and Spared from a similar fate with our own children. People seem to 'blame' automatically and not because they are seeking fault but because they are seeking 'why'. From my own reaction to divorce, I have a better understanding of the human drive to find 'answers'. Unfortunately, some people continue to blame and judge others long after the shock has disappeared. I love what you wrote about that young man's funeral service...this is a very 'healing' way to view suicide for those who likely blame themselves for not being able to prevent the tragedy...

We don't understand mental illness very well and even if we have studied enough to recognize certain mental disorders/illnesses, it's STILL hard to accept that we cannot change or cure mental illness. It's still difficult to let go of the feeling that we somehow 'caused' the mental illness because we did this or that, and shoulda done that or this. As a population, we are slowly eliminating the stigma of mental illness though it's frightening to admit to ourselves that anyone can be temporarily disabled by depression. We face such a loss of personal power when we attempt to 'understand' mental illness rather than defending ourselves against powerlessness by blaming either the victim, or those who SHOULD HAVE prevented mental illness by being better caretakers, or better friends, or better parents, etc. etc. It's almost easier to say WE are at fault than to feel powerless.

"I remember a therapist telling my friend after her son's suicide that he felt like we would see more and more suicides among our youth simply because our world had become so intense..."

I wonder about the same thing. There is so much emphasis on self-definition, me me me, being successful, achieving fame and celebrity, and amassing wealth and all sorts of dissatisfying reasons To Live. The pressure is on, even beginning in kindergarten----parents insist their child compete with Peers for the best grades, the best community service projects, the best schools...Frankly, I would HATE growing up in our society today. We stress competition as if it's the best way for someone to achieve but do we, as a culture, realize how Isolating competition is? That competition disconnects our kids from one another which only undermines their sense of worth? There are a lot of signs in our culture that we're headed down a path of self-destruction and all in the name of Good Intentions.

As rarely as we talk about this subject, it is interesting that most of us have direct experience with suicide. 


Hugs,
CZ

[seaschellz]

CZBZ,
Please accept my deepest sympathies.  I cannot imagine the pain that the family must be going through.  One of my closest friends in high school committed suicide.  He was vibrant, bright, talented and obviously keeping the darkness to himself.  When he did not show up for our history exam (we wrote just before Christmas), we all assumed was he sick.  We even joked that he had finally deviated from the "straight and arrow", by cutting an exam! My parents told me that evening that he had shot himself.  In his suicide note he mentioned his fear of failure, and disappointing his parents (he was an only child) because he hadn't studied for the history exam.........and that people would know, he wasn't really who they thought he was. We went over in our teenaged minds, how could we not have known???? He was, after all, one of our best friends!!!  But we didn't know, neither did his parents, nor did his teachers.  Could we have stopped him?  I don't know. If we did, would he have kept trying until he was successful?  Don't know that either.  All I know is that for the longest time my emotions would swing, between missing him, loving him, and then hating him for making me feel guilty, because I didn't know that he felt there was no other way. 
Sadly mental illness still has a stigma attached to it.  Is there any difference between a diabetic and someone with depression?  They are both suffering from chemical imbalances, but society is much more accepting and supportive of the guy whose pancreas doesn't work. Time to come out of the Dark Ages. 
seaschellz

[Phoenixxx]

I wish that we could talk about the subject on this forum.

[CZBZ]

Hummm...I believe we ARE talking about suicide. 


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

"All I know is that for the longest time my emotions would swing, between missing him, loving him, and then hating him for making me feel guilty, because I didn't know that he felt there was no other way.  Sadly mental illness still has a stigma attached to it.  Is there any difference between a diabetic and someone with depression?  They are both suffering from chemical imbalances, but society is much more accepting and supportive of the guy whose pancreas doesn't work. Time to come out of the Dark Ages.  " ~Seaschellz


Here's the thing, Seaschellz (and you know I deal with family member's mental illness every day of my life...they keep me on my toes, that's for sure!): we have to recognize our own 'grandiosity' in seeing ourselves as the cause or the cure to another person's problems. I'd love to be the solution, to know what to say or do to help someone overcome their 'emptiness' and hopelessness. But I can't do that. I've had to give up my 'rescue' fantasies and recognize when it's time to bring in the professionals which requires a lot of trust in psychologist's knowledge and expertise.

Psychologists offer an objective view that is based on clinical work with people who suffer from mental illnesses. Professional help is absolutely a prerequisite though narcissists will be loath to DEPEND on anyone. Especially professionals who they likely view as usurping their power instead of collaborating with them to fix their 'problems'. The people in my family are going to therapy, taking medications, doing their psyche-homework to help themselves. With a narcissist, someone who is pathologically narcissistic that is, they rely on other people to make them FEEL GOOD without facing the fact that they are responsible for their mental health. In fact, being mentally ill might be impossible for narcissists to face. They'd rather replace people who do not make them feel good...that means anyone who is intimate with the narcissist will be viewed as an 'enemy' because we can see through their self-serving image. We want to HELP and that attacks the narcissist's perceptions of self-sufficiency.

As far as suicide goes, bipolar disorder fluctuates from mania to utter despair and hopelessness. I watch for signs that family members might be 'suicidal' and then we talk about it openly. That's been hard for them (and me) to do...but not talking about suicide is ignoring my responsibility as a caretaker. (though I'd rather NOT even think about the fact that someone I love and care about might decide to end their lives).

We do what we can do...Denial is not the answer.

Whether this is the right answer or not, I don't know but my intuition tells me that its important for my family members to think about the impact of suicide on other people...not just themselves. Getting them to think outside the 'isolated' self is my goal...to recognize that their absence will harm other people and then choose to suffer their own pain rather than cause others to suffer for them. It's a challenging situation when we provide support for people with mental illnesses...and yet, some of us caretakers can't help but take care of others. We still have to learn where our support is healthy and where it might become unhealthy; i.e.: being inappropriately responsible. I use the Three C's of Alanon all the time: I didn't cause it. I can't control it. I can't cure it.

This is a very frustrating realization to admit to ourselves...so, we do what we can do and hope for the best but ultimately realize that the decision is not ours to make (or take blame for).


Hugs,
CZ

[seaschellz]

CZBZ, Well said, as always If there is anything that life with an N has taught me, is that I can't save everybody (rescue fantasies).  I was a kid when my friend ended his life.  As an adult, I understand that it was ultimately his decision, and you are right. We do what can do to help others, and sometimes, no matter what, all the love in the world won't change anything.  Case in point, exNh. 
seaschellz

[Phoenixxx]

MY recent experience over the last 10 years of my own life is I have the power of saving it from ultimate demise, but I dont have the power to save it from a whole bunch else.

[muse314159]

{{{{CZ}}}} I am so, so sorry for your loss and your friend's loss - doubly hard because of all the complicated relationships, and the heavy burden of "what-if's" that suicide brings to those left behind. My heart goes out to you, and hope that you have loving family and friends who can be there to comfort IRL even if they do not fully understand.

I was in my 40s when I found out my bio-dad committed suicide. This after a whole bunch of other family secrets, like who my bio-dad was to begin with. Having gone to some very dark places in my head and soul when trying to get out of the whole N thing, it scared the bejeezus out of me to know there was that genetic connection. My older brothers are estranged from the family due to mental illness; I married the N who had his own issues; I certainly had a predisposition to depression (and still do, and still struggle with cold, lonely thoughts that I know I should get help for - again).

What you said hit home for parenting on the other side of the swath of destruction left by life touched by an N.

"Children today face an empty proliferation of dissatisfying role models placing fame & fortune above relative obscurity and normality, self above others. And what can I even say about the pain of knowing a blessed child was born with a genetic predisposition that will be a life-long challenge for both the child and those who nurture him-or-her. It is humbling to admit to ourselves that as parents, we are not omnipotent; our desire to ameliorate a child's problems is beyond the scope of our influence; we cannot seclude a child from the harsh realities of life in a narcissistic culture. We do what we can do to support them but in the end, we are helpless to save them from harm caused either by others or by themselves."

The only things I ever felt I could do for my daughter was to be honest as age-appropriate about the full spectrum of her family, some of the N-behavior, and encouraging her strongly to talk to trusted adults about anything...and even if it was about me, I reassured her, I would not be mad and I would always love her and respect her privacy. When she was younger, I would have her name the people that she could go to for help or talk to when she was "blue". Now, I know she seeks them out on her own, tells me about them at some point...but has at least begun a support system she trusts that may help shield her from the hand that nature and nurture has dealt. She has to seek the support of outsiders - her family is too nuts <grin>

Take care,
Love, Muse
(who is so happy to be back on the board now that I have a computer that is not crashing every five minutes..."

[CZBZ]

I am somewhat removed from the tragedy. My only connection to the family is through my sister but she and I talk about everything in our lives (well, at least as much as she wants me to know. ha!) This has upset my sis so much because of her own son and his escapade last year that landed him in juvenile detention for several days. When we brought him home, we were told to watch for signs of suicide. It's hard for kids to face their families when they do something so utterly stupid as running away and getting arrested by police.

My sister's friend's stepson got in trouble with the school and a few days later, committed suicide. We realize that we are fortunate that my nephew did not take similar action. So this is why it has been so 'triggering' for all of us who provide daily care for my nephew.

Still, my sister is having a tough time supporting her friend. We never know quite what to say in situations like this and the last thing we want to do is say 'the wrong thing', ya know?


Hugs,
CZ

[Phoenixxx]

I guess thats why its easier to talk about the topic, when its someone else.  I wish we could talk about our own suicidal ideation.  Thats what I meant.

[muse314159]

Phoenix, check your email...

~Muse

[eyes_up]

Pheonix, I think you might be interested in checking out "DAily Strength" support groups. I joined when I found out I had PTSD. What that means is that I was aware that WoN was not the BEST place to discuss and deal with that specific issue.

Although PTSD is discussed to some degree here on WoN it doesn't do what talking to people who are focused specifically on that topic. If I were you and needed to talk about and get feed back on suicidal tendencies I would find the best place for it.

My own experience is that I know nothing of supporting a person who is having thoughts of suicide. I really do not know what your needs are. I have no good feed back. The subject I employ myself to discuss is NPD and breaking free of Narcissistic relationship.

This is a great place to make friends and interact on your personal situation.

http://www.dailystrength.org/home

Peace,

eyes

[CZBZ]

The Internet has excellent resources for people who might be suicidal or for those who have suffered because of someone's suicide. There are numerous grief networks, professional therapists working with clients over the Internet...whenever I google about this topic, thousands of websites are listed. This gives us so much freedom to find the 'right place' for us, the perfect 'fit'. I sense that the only thing that might be missing on some of these websites, is the Personal Touch. Direct contact with people we've come to trust over a period of time. It might be hard to find a place that feels 'real'...a place we know will continue to be there for a long time. I sense (and maybe it's just 'me' cuz I've been here so long), that people feel a direct connection to REAL people on our forum. The anonymity of the Internet is a plus, but the anonymity of most  websites is also a loss.

If anyone is concerned about their suicidal thoughts, my first response to you is to find a qualified therapist and talk to him or her about the thoughts and feelings you are having. It is so tragic when someone is overwhelmed by losses, by change, by fears, by emptiness and hopelessness and does not realize that This Too Shall Pass. I can relate to the despair and desperation that feels as though it will never change. I have felt those lonely moments when taking another breath was unbearable. Thank God I did not act on those moments because That Too Has Passed.

One thing that was a serious problem for me and I didn't realize it for a couple of years, was an under-active thyroid. I believe that when our anxiety and stress is as high as it ALWAYS is during the 'devalue and discard' or even long term stress from an abusive relationship, the stress takes a physical toll on our bodies. For me, I kept thinking my lethary was 'depression'. That my symptoms were all in my head and Prozac should fix the problem and get me back to my former self. Prozac helped but eventually, I had to seek another answer (bless my doctor's heart). My thyroid had gone kapoot and it was a feat of inner strength that I could even walk into her office. ha! After three months on thyroid medication, I am back to my old self and gosh, I like her. 

So to anyone suffering from hopelessness, despair, thoughts of suicide, the appearance of depression, please see a doctor. Like tomorrow. Or better yet, today. Ask them to check your thyroid for any malfunctioning. Especially if you are gaining weight and your eating habits are not any different than before the pounds accumulated.   

Hugs,
CZ

[Phoenixxx]

I dont need support, and I'm not interested in hearing other people talk about their PTSD, unless its someone who has PTSD for similar reasons to mine.

I'm not looking or hoping for anyone to have any soothing words, unless they have a wealth of strategies that worked for them, I'd be interested in hearing those.

I dont want anyone to think I'm in so much danger that I need someone to save me, I never got on the codependency train, I'm not about to buy a ticket now.

What I had hoped was to be able to tell my story and hear other survivors of N/S abuse tell theirs.

Because since the 2nd year of my 7 yr relationship with my exN/S I have woken up every morning wishing I'd die, because as CZ put it, taking in another breath just seemed too painful.  I've felt that way almost every single day for the last 8 years.  I have 2 great therapists, and I've spoken about this extensively with them, theyre not concerned about it, they dont believe I'm in any danger and they think its a not so uncommon fallout from what I experienced.  I dont feel at risk.  I have a 13 yr old son whose psychological life I wouldnt dare screw up with my own selfishness, and I really do think I can withstand and endure anything for him if need be.  And so this is a "need be".  I do believe I wont always feel like this, so a permanent solution to a temporary problem just seems illogical.

But I DO feel this way almost everyday.  I STILL feel this way almost everyday, despite having been broken up with my exN/S for over 3 years now, and frankly I feel like a freak, because it seems like I really shouldnt be anymore.  I want me NOT to be anymore.  I deserve to be FREE from it finally.

And I'm not.

And the weird thing is, I value myself.  Its not about thinking I dont deserve, or that I'm not worthy or that I deserve the ultimate punishment, or I'm not strong enough to deal...or any of those things.  I know I'm lovable but that I wont go near a man because I choose to, not because I'm afraid of rejection (although on a nervous system level I AM afraid of ever loving another soul-sucking whack job again).

if time is the great healer, and therapy is good medicine, and putting energy into my love/suupport network of friends/family and social life is a necessity, and treating myself well, and, and, and...then I'm doing everything I'm suppsoed to do...and here I still am...not hating my life (cuz I lived a charmed life), but finding it hard to live.

I find life very very hard.

I'm not sad, I'm not a defeatist, I dont think I'm depressed, I just dont experience much joy in anything, and I have this loop of thought every day, that I wish that living didnt feel so hard...

ahhh...that FEELING didnt feel so hard.

yanno?

but I dont hear survivors of N/S abuse talking about it, and so I feel like I'm odd, or marginal, or like I had something broken that you all still have intact...whatever.

I dont know....I just have been living with this for a very long time, and wish that a voice called back across the canyon about it.

[Phoenixxx]

sorry I didnt want that post tagged onto CZ's, it was meant to be a new thread with a new subject heading