A recent tragedy breaks my heart this morning...

[Julia]

Phoenix,


My life is hard, I do understand. I too feel somewhat like an animated doll a lot of the time. I feel joy around my kids at appropriate times, but it feels superficial in someway. Like I have to focus on the feeling to let it happen. And it is transient. I am well aware that I cannot remember the last time I felt really happy or joyful . I have happy feelings from time to time, but really happy? Afraid not. Some might say my expectations are too high. I can only look at how others seem to feel. To be honest quite a few seem even less happy than me..... but there are a lot who have a lot more smiles and laughs, go out more, remember back fondly on events. I do my best to walk calmly through this divorce and single motherhood and avoid a trudge or worse, crawling along. Others skip more than I do, if you are still hanging in there with this metaphor..........

I try to remember that I only have me to count on, and I have to work harder than most divorcees to make the right choices because the stakes are so high, and there was damage done during my childhood, my marriage. My kids only have me to count on and I have to work harder than most parenting them, because the stakes for them are so high and damage has been done having Nh as a dad. So I am working harder..... and that squelches some joy, I guess.   This sounds a lot like what you have described.... for your son.

I am choosing to feel proud of all this work. Do I wish life was more calm....? As in  never married to NH? Well no becasue then I wouldn't have my kids. Do I look forward to the future when they are gone and life is more calm...? well no becasuee I like having little kids.  I feel proud that I am bearing up under an unbearable load. The fact that I feel any happiness at all is a plus and more than I would have if I had stayed with NH.

I don't really have any wisdom to share other than to say, I am sorry that you are feeling this. I can relate and I think we can choose how we value this path that we have to walk post N.

Julia

[Phoenixxx]

I apologize CZ

I didnt mean for this to detract at all from your thread.  if you can divvy it up so its separate I'd be good with that.

Thankyou Julia for posting.

I appreciate you wishing you had something wise to say, but really I'm not even hoping for that, although if someone had a cure-all I'd be willing to try it.

If I was all alone in feeling this, especially for so long while I was with him, and so long after having broken up with him, I would consider myself "odd" and in need of further intervention (although I've posted here before I dont want to go the route of pharmaceuticals, I'm already upset by how much my brain has changed from this whole experience, I'd like not to screw around with it anymore, I just want it to heal).

If on the other hand I heard other N/S abuse survivors talk about how they have similar feelings, and that it does get better over time, I'd feel more...whats the word....accepting, or less concerned, or relaxed about it (sort of how I'm relaxed about how desperate I feel when I'm PMS'ing, or lethargic I get during the dark months of the season, I know its natural and will go away and I dont need to do anything about it).

But because its such a taboo subject, I dont hear other voices discuss it. 

Just how "odd" am I?

[CZBZ]

Dear Phoenixxx,

I think it's fine to let our conversation meander from the original post. Unless you want me to separate the messages, my preference is to leave your posts as they are. I have to leave this evening but will post in the morning...What you are saying is probably more common for women than we're willing to talk about. It's shocking to have thoughts of suicide that you've never had before but according to the therapist I spoke with, it's 'normal'. Well, abnormally normal.  Sometimes just having the 'thought' is empowering in a way because we choose "NOT" to yield to our desperate feelings.

Hugs,
CZ

[Lapin]

Not to hijack CZ's thread, but I wanted to tell you Phoenixxx, that I get what you are saying.  I could have written your words about myself.  I have been fortunate to find another member here where I can discuss these types of thoughts without someone calling 911.  Recently, I saw an interview with Carrie Fisher on Charlie Rose.  Carrie Fisher suffers from Bipolar disorder.  Charlie Rose asked her about suicidal thoughts.  She explained it that she didn't really want to die, but she wanted a break, a vacation from the pain, the biopolar, all the stuff in her head, her life, etc.  She said that she would never hurt her daughter by actually killing herself.  I could relate to what she was saying, that need for a break from the pain.  It is a difficult subject for discussion and brings up so many volatile emotions in people.  Many people don't understand and for those that too, it brings up too many emotionally violent feelings.  I once said something about it to 3D friend and it really set her off.  I didn't realize that her own mother had made a serious suicide attempt and that the brother of her mother had taken his own life when he was suffering from a long deblitating fatal illness.  It is a charged topic.  Eyes suggested the same website to me.  It is a nice site.  The particular community that I need tends to have younger members than me so I don't feel that I really belong there.  However, once in a while, I do like to read it so that I don't feel like I am the only person in the world who suffers from the same thing. 

[SusyP14]

I find life very very hard.

I'm not sad, I'm not a defeatist, I dont think I'm depressed, I just dont experience much joy in anything, and I have this loop of thought every day, that I wish that living didnt feel so hard...

Phoenixxx, I am not a mental health professional but I believe that everything you are describing above ARE symptoms of depression.  Especially the not finding joy in anything.

In case this is of interest to you, I am on a support call for specifically for women who have been with abusive N men.  I do believe that my XN was the WORST kind of Narc and I need all the support I can get.

Here is info on the support call, in case you are in the United States and have any interest and also she has several 1 week workshops coming up.  I am going to try to go to the one in January and the one for PTSD in May:


SUPPORT GROUP STARTING UP AGAIN
We have had a great 5 weeks of meeting weekly. The women have found it to be such a supportive, insightful, and healing time. We meet on a conference call every Thursday evening at 8 p.m. EST. We have general chat about how each person is doing, work towards managing their symptoms, and have designated topics we also cover related to Pathological Love Relationships.

New members can join at the start up of each month. It's $20 per session for a 1.5 hour session each week/$80 a month. We start again this Thu. Nov. 5. Email us at saferelationships (at) yahoo.com if you'd like to find out how to sign up.

The $550 includes board; retreats other than Coaching are 5 women for 5 days

Sun. Jan. 10 - check out Fri. Jan. 15
Healing the Aftermath of Pathological Love Relationships--our flagship and standard retreat in Brevard, NC

Sun. Mar. 7 - check out Fri. Mar. 12
Healing the Aftermath of Pathological Love Relationships in Brevard, NC

Sun Apr. 11 - check out Fri. Apr. 16
Healing the Aftermath of Pathological Love Relationships in Brevard, NC

Sun. May 23 - check out Fri. May 28
Managing & Healing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Symptoms in Brevard, NC
** ONLY ONE OFFERED IN MID 2010!

[Phoenixxx]

thanks for that Susy

I'm a big promoter of Sandra Brown's work, I sing her praises whenever I can.  She's written me a number of times about her retreat, encouraging me to see if my benefits package covers it. I guess its time I do that.

I have been clinically depressed before in  my life and this is wholly different.  I wish I had better words for HOW its different, how it feels different.

I dont feel sad.  I have plenty enough energy to live, work, go out and be with my friends, do laundry, take care of my son.  I no longer feel all the heaviness of grief and depletion I did a couple years ago.  MY anger and rage while still present feels more distant and quiet.  I am better now than I was this time last year, so I suspect I'l be better this time next year than I am now.

But does the process have to be SO long?  Its been 3 years since I'm out of this relationship.

I'd appreciate hearing from other survivors who are completely recovered how long it took.

But really, am I the only one who thinks about dying everyday for years?

[eyes_up]

Phoenix, since you joined the board I have read at least 7 peoples stories. How long have you been here and how much longer will you be here until you decide to break the news as to your story. Just wondering since you said something about telling your story.

Support on a board is having listeners to hear you story. WoN provides a supportive environment and when people post their story others reply as if you hadn't noticed. The URL I lent is the same thing... it is all about support but if you do not speak and tell your story then, well , it is all skirting around.

I referred the URL since you may have thought of suicide and you might be able to speak to those who have not only are going through the same crisis but also people who have managed to change their internal condition and between the two you might be provided with support that is more to your point or need.

"I dont need support, and I'm not interested in hearing other people talk about their PTSD, unless its someone who has PTSD for similar reasons to mine." ~ Phoenix


Thanks for letting me know that you do not need support. Knowing other peoples needs preferences and expectations is a good way to create better relations.

eyes

[SusyP14]

But does the process have to be SO long?  Its been 3 years since I'm out of this relationship.

I'd appreciate hearing from other survivors who are completely recovered how long it took.

But really, am I the only one who thinks about dying everyday for years?

Phoenixxx, How long were you in the relationship with XN?  I was in my relationship for merely 8 months, and it has been 7 months (practically the course of the relationship) and I am still processing what occurred and how blinded I was by his pathology.  I have finally reached a stage of INTENSE ANGER, which I think is healthy instead of the immense sadness that I carried since the break up.

Also I have zero contact with XN, thankfully.  If you are still in contact with yours because he is the father of your child, then that I would assume that would make your processing time linger since contact remains constant.

One day at a time, everyone grieves differently, processes differently, gets over things differently.  Also I think it depends on the toxic level of Narc that you were dealing with.  Mine was nothing more then a beast.  I sometimes question if he has even a soul, but I suppose we all do, he is just horribly disconnected from his own. 

This is a man that wanted to dress his daughter in black and offer her to Satan instead of a baptism.  This is the level of darkness he operated in.  When he told me that I laughed because I thought he was trying to get a reaction out of me.  I know believe it to be true, especially after reading People of the Evil and have Scott Peck relay the same exact story in that book.

Also do you do any body processing work to try to release the trauma out of your body?  I think that helps a lot.  I spend a lot of time with a baseball bat and a pillow pretending it is XN's face that I am bashing.  Not that I am angry or bitter 

Maybe I will see you at the retreat 

[CZBZ]

I have reposted messages on this thread: When we have thoughts of suicide during a healing process

If you are triggered by this discussion and would like to speak with someone, feel free to email me here: wonmanagers@yahoo.com

Discussions about 'suicide' might be helpful because we discover that other people suffer from similar thoughts during a healing process. However, discussions like this can also trigger feelings in fellow board members. It is not that I am afraid to discuss 'suicidal ideation' since I live with a people who have severe depression. My concern is for the overall impact on the forum...especially for our more vulnerable members who are only beginning a healing process. If anyone is triggered or feeling angry towards board members who are talking about suicide, please take a break from the board. Contact a friend or someone who makes you feel 'safe', or email managers at the above address.

Your welfare is manager's utmost concern...if a lot of forum members are upset by discussions like this, we will post informative threads with links and anecdotal stories but those threads will be Read Only.

I'd love to hear everyone's feedback. Are threads like this useful or are they detrimental to our overall sense of safety as a community?


Hugs all,
CZ

[Phoenixxx]

Phoenix, since you joined the board I have read at least 7 peoples stories. How long have you been here and how much longer will you be here until you decide to break the news as to your story. Just wondering since you said something about telling your story.

Support on a board is having listeners to hear you story. WoN provides a supportive environment and when people post their story others reply as if you hadn't noticed. The URL I lent is the same thing... it is all about support but if you do not speak and tell your story then, well , it is all skirting around.

I referred the URL since you may have thought of suicide and you might be able to speak to those who have not only are going through the same crisis but also people who have managed to change their internal condition and between the two you might be provided with support that is more to your point or need.

"I dont need support, and I'm not interested in hearing other people talk about their PTSD, unless its someone who has PTSD for similar reasons to mine." ~ Phoenix


Thanks for letting me know that you do not need support. Knowing other peoples needs preferences and expectations is a good way to create better relations.

eyes

eyes,

I dont think I know what you mean.  I havent shared my story here?  really?  I thought I did in pieces as they were relevant to other people's threads.

And you want me to explain myself so I can get more support?  even though I said I am not looking for someone to support me, as much as just hearing from others that I'm not alone?

sorry -- I'm confused.  Maybe you could explain it a bit better?  (maybe I'm just "thick"? I've been called worse)

[Phoenixxx]

If you are triggered by this discussion and would like to speak with someone, feel free to email me here: wonmanagers@yahoo.com

If anyone is triggered by my posts I want to apologize.  I have been carrying this around with me for a very long time and have wished for a safe environment to discuss it with other survivors.  But I do want everyone to know, I am not at risk of following through on any of those fantasies, even on my very desperate nights, I'm still grounded, lucid and connected to my commitment as a mother to remain on this earth.  I dont want anyone to worry about me.

I'm OK, I just dont feel OK.

[honeybearII]

Phoenixx, let me just say something about your statement about not "feeling" all right.  I finally realized through a lot of therapy and very good therapist, that feelings are not reality in one sense.  They are messengers that drop in to tell us something.  We can invite them to stay in our heads, or we can say "thanks, needed that info" and then usher them out the door.  If you are okay, if you are functioning and grounded as you say you are, then those feelings are not any more real than our dreams. 

We cannot totally escape from our thoughts, but we sure as heck don't have to invite them to take up residence in our heads.  As I said on another post, I STILL have thoughts about ending it all and my life is very, very good.  I see them as residuals and when they invade my consciousness I don't give them any foothold into my daily life.  I refuse to dwell on them or to give the much credence because I don't have ANY RATIONAL REASON TO WANT TO KILL MYSELF.  They are just "thoughts".....messengers that bubble up from my psyche that tell me that I have been through a great emotional trauma and there is scar tissue in my head that will probably always be there.

If you are still having suicidal thoughts, even after this long, then my guess is that you are giving them too much attention.  When we do this, they keep coming back.  I don't know if you have discussed methods of dealing with unwanted thoughts with your therapist, but there are techniques you can use to deal with the Inner Conversation we have with ourselves 24/7.  We have a great deal of control over what we choose to let take over our consciousness.  We might not have any control over what thoughts come knocking on our door, but we sure don't have to give them the guest room.
Honey