Sociopaths went wild in a small town in New Hampshire

[Flower]

"Had he known the girl was still alive, Gribble told police he would have finished her off. In what sounds like a shred of twisted remorse, Gribble says his only regret is that she now has to deal with the horrific aftermath of what he and his comrades have done."

What is chilling is Gribble's twisted rationalization for killing again and that this happened in a small town. This is a wake-up call for small town America that this could happen anywhere. And my question is:  What is going on that we have so many sociopaths nowadays?


Full story:

http://wbztv.com/local/mont.vernon.murder.2.1405921.html

[CZBZ]

whoah.......terrifying story and absolutely SICKENING. We'd best wake up as a society and figure out what to do with teen-agers like this. I hope enough people are finally getting it through their heads that 'sociopathy' is not cured in 12-steps. Nor in church.

It's chilling that they were proud of being 'sociopaths'...now that's Malignant Narcissism isn't it?

So what do you think is going on, Flower?? I don't know if crimes like this are more frequent than they ever were (a quick read through history books reminds us how far we've come since the days of public hangings), but the MEDIA ATTENTION is certainly more seductive for the pathologically inclined. Aren't there quite a few recent killers who gloried in their fame and attention??? That's quite different from a sociopathic serial killer like the reclusive Ed Gein. These kids are looking for an adoring audience to witness their viciousness.

Also, I watch every episode of Dexter but wonder how this show might impact pathological people. It won't make someone turn into a sociopath but it might validate (encourage) someone who is already sociopathic.

Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

One more point:

I follow a few websites allowing comments by anonymous readers and am never surprised when someone claims to be a sociopath. It's as if they are delighted to call themselves that because it means they are so unique and special. You can always sense the malignant narcissism in their self-aggrandizement and superiority.

Perhaps the increasing acceptance of narcissism (self-promotion and self-admiration), brings these creatures out of the woodwork when they used to hide their arrogance. In a sick kind of way, our society validates unhealthy narcissism and might contribute to stories like the one you posted.


CZ

[Flower]

Well, CZ, my head is spinning with so many thoughts about this topic. As you know, I seriously looked into becoming a foresnic psychologist, but due to where I live, the only places I could work at are the state and federal prisions.  I already got the scoop about what it is like for a female to be interrogating
inmates and I just don't have the stomach for that type of behavior. I wonder, though, why they don't bring them in for interviews in shackles.

Anyway, I think with the all the shows out that are violent and gory such as CSI, Criminal Minds and Dexter (glorifying sociopathy) that teens have become desensitized to blood and gore.  On an espisode of CSI, it showed severely burned corpses.  Not too long after that, a man tried to burn his ex and then again in Florida, bullies set a boy on fire.  These individuals most likely were warped to begin with, but these shows seem to add fuel to the proverbial fire.

And then I wonder:  Who is producing these shows? A bunch of depraved narcissists? 

Society is so strange. Shows that deplict such gory violence are allowed to be aired, while if Janet Jackson has a so-called "wardrobe malfunction," people are outraged. Why aren't more people outraged at what is being viewed by our children.

I realize that there is speedy and more coverage of violent crimes than there was in the past and we have a higher population base. However, during the days of "Leave it to Beaver," "Ozzie and Harriet,"
"My Three Sons," "The Andy Griffith Show," "The Brady Bunch," etc., kids didn't plan out stabbings and burning people.

Instead of being upset about if our children will see part of a breast, society should be upset about the affect of repetitive gore and violence will have on our children.

[CZBZ]

Interesting you bring up the topic of nudity and violence. When we lived in France, I was shocked by shower scenes selling soap on television with totally naked people scrubbing themselves clean. My two kids (8 and 11) held their breath and covered their eyes. At least for as long as Mom was in the room. ROFL However, violence was prohibited. I tried taking my son a couple years later to RoboCop and they would NOT let him see the movie. Even with me saying it was 'okay'. That sure caught my attention----we are ALL desensitized to violence these days.

And I love horror films. So let me be clear about my hypocrisy. 

A book written by Jean Twenge and Keith Campbell includes a chapter titled, "The Quest for Infamy and the Rise of Incivility (antisocial behavior)". It's a great book called Living in the Age of Entitlement: The Narcissistic Epidemic. They write,

"Given the upswing in the narcissistic values of American culture since the '90's, it may be no coincidence that mass shootings became a national plague around the same time...these types of social behaviors need to get attention before most people think about perpetrating them...As American culture has grown more focused on self-admiration and more enamored with celebrity and fame, and now that mass killing in schools is seen as a direct avenue to fame and attention, the frequency of mass killings has increased dramatically...Narcissism is linked to violent crime in certain contexts: when there is the possibility of gaining fame, and when there is an ego threat or rejection...narcissism plays a role in crimes linked to fame, attention seeking, and threats to the ego." (page 201, The Narcissism Epidemic)

The authors remind readers that 'consumers' of media messages are also guilty. That the incivility we witness (especially on the Internet) needs to be countered and stopped. Such as those YouTube uploaded videos of stupid teens doing violent things. Teens need to know that if they cannot restrain their violent impulses, JAIL is society's option.

They also make an important point: those of us who did not grow up in a media-saturated society, may not realize the impact of violence on our children who HAVE grown up in an attention-seeking culture. The change for us has been slow, so gradual we hardly even notice. But for our children, 'fame' and 'attention' and 'self-admiration' is NORMAL.

Drew Pinsky's book, The Mirror Effect, also critiques social validation of pathological behavior. Each time we purchase a People magazine at the newsstand, we are contributing to the narcissism problem.

What these two books illustrate is the importance of taking responsibility FOR the problem instead of wondering why some people commit heinous crimes and then going about our lives as if we are excluded from complicity. Like you wrote, Flower, "Who is producing these shows? A bunch of depraved narcissists?", people with strong communal values are not likely the ones producing Reality TV Shows. We need to be very aware of the messages ALL OF US have accepted through film and television. I have to stop myself from feeling sorry for Dexter because the script plays on our emotional responses to get us involved in the character's story.

The Catch-22 is that suppression of news stories about Abuse and Violence is not the answer either. When I read books like Twenge and Campbell's, my immediate instinct is to censor everything. ha...then I wonder who the censor will be and what criteria will be used to determine what merits censorship and what doesn't. It's complicated, isn't it?

Twenge writes, "The news media should institute a policy that they will not show criminal video made in the interest of seeking fame and/or humiliating a victim." Well, I guess that means the 5 o'clock news will feature Human Interest Stories and lose their funding entirely.


Hugs,
CZ

[Flower]

Wow! The book you mentioned: "Living in the Age of Entitlement: The Narcissistic Epidemic" has pushed my brain to think about another factor that drives perhaps isolated or rejected teens and others to crimes: a way to get attention.

Furthermore, as you noted, CZ, that these people who committ these crimes do not think about the consequences. I am thinking mostly this is due to ADHD, depression or a manic rage.  Nowadays, most parents have to consistently ask their children what is going on with them or play amateur detective to find out what their children are doing.  There is this cliche, "Watch out for the quiet ones." It has been my experience that this is usually true. The "loners" or the pack followers are the ones who usually end up in trouble with the law. 

As far as the show, "Dexter," knowing what the premise was, I refused to watch it because I thought it was making a hero out of a sociopath.  And my question has been, "Why are the producers making a hero out of a sociopath?"  Ratings?  I did not intend to label all visual media producers as "depraved narcissists," but I have to wonder where their head is at.

Not only has Dexter been off my "to watch" list, but CSI as well due to making it too gory and perhaps even more desensitizing certain viewers to burned and mutiliated bodies.  Perhaps the advertisers are pandering to the younger crowd who spend bucks on their products; thus, the producers are trying to attract that younger audience for their advertisers.

I'm not for mandated censorship either, but at some point, people should email the producers of these shows and voice their opinions, especially about what affect these shows are having on a large percentage of the population.

This debate certainly is interesting!
Hugs, Flower

[CZBZ]

I love a good conversation that pushes me, Flower. And when it comes to Dexter, my buttons get pushed since i've seen every episode and can't wait for the next series. What has interested me is how a sociopath views other people. How he thinks. What rules he follows when he does not have emotions or conscience overriding lesser instincts. But I am 'normal' (or so I profess, LOL). This show may likely be promoting sociopathy as an emulative role model. That's disturbing...television is not for the SANE only. It's for people to buy stuff and that includes the wackjobs.

I do not like CSI but the only reason I paid much attention to the subject matter in this series was because of my nephew. He was almost addicted to the show. Once I sat downstairs working on my laptop while he was watching TV, I noticed that many of their programs 'victimized' women and the subject matter was very inappropriate for young teenagers. After watching one particular show, it suddenly dawned on my why my nephew kept referring to rape as if it were the worst thing to ever happen to a woman. Do you know how many CSI programs feature rape?? I felt particularly uncomfortable letting my nephew watch a show like that while his sexuality is developing. Rape is not about sex. It's about power and violence but to our kids, they aren't making the distinction between the two like adults do.

I also watch the kinds of video games kids play. Since my son programs computer games, we have some hot debates over social responsibility and how violent games might influence teenager's behaviors. The favorite computer game at my house right now is Plants Versus Zombies. So far, I'm the champion.

The argument is that games, movies, tv shows, etc. provide a 'release', a way for people to release violent instincts without harming anyone. maybe once people are adults and their 'character' has been developed, that's true. my concern really is with our kids and what they perceive to be normal behavior. I remember when Tipper Gore (?) was trying to censor the music industry though. People didn't like it.

The problem is that most people ASSUME everyone has children's best interests at heart and the truth is: they don't. If whatever they have to sell can make a buck, then that's GOOD. Being GOOD these days is defined by how much money you make.

If you read Drew Pinsky's book, he lays it all out pretty clear and does not hesitate saying our celebrities are 'pathological'. Or that our media producers are pathological. The problem, according to him, is that seeing these images day in and day out, normalizes pathological behavior. I believe that's true---even for myself. What used to be abhorrent back twenty years ago, isn't even shocking today.

Hugs,
CZ

[Proud2B]

...What used to be abhorrent back twenty years ago, isn't even shocking today. ~ CZ

I find this to be soooooo true.  Ya know, 30 years ago it was embarrassing to buy condoms, but not cigarettes.  Now, it's just the reverse!  I guess we've come a long way, baby.

What I find to be equally true is, after becoming desensitized to violence against women, gore, and all the other junk on T.V. - if you walk away from it for a while, and then come back, it is absolutely shocking how explicit, and desensitizing viewing that stuff can be when viewed day in and day out.

In other words, it only takes a little time to become re-sensitized to the violence on t.v.

We need more people to vote with the remote.  Women are victimized in just about every episode of CSI.  Turn that crap off!

Just my two cents worth.

PRoud   

[Flower]

"What has interested me is how a sociopath views other people. How he thinks. What rules he follows when he does not have emotions or conscience overriding lesser instincts."  *CZ*

I hear ya! LOL....and for that very reason I wanted to go into forensic psych.

Actually, I had a front-row seat for years observing to whom I believe was either a malignant N or sociopath from where I worked.
Here's what I observed:
A sociopath views other people only as objects to be used for whatever purpose suits he/she.
He thinks in terms of "How can that person be useful to me? What can I get/gain from that person?
The partial sociopath follows these rules:  Don't get caught! Stay within the fringes of the law. Study the target's desires and vulnerabilities and act according.  Play their game, as life is a game to be played to one's advantage.
I could write a book about this guy's antics and how at times, he even sucked me into his web.

Drew Pinsky nailed it and I am going to read his book. Remember my previous posts about "normalizing?" What was off-limits and considered perverted years ago, it is now becoming "normalized." Sooner or later certain people will be proudly displaying cuffs and whips attached to their belts.
We won't go there---yet! 

The reason I don't watch CSI is now because of the gore. My thought is that they don't have to be that graphic. And yes, I agree that rape is about violence and power over and not about sex.  These episodes should show less gory and concentrate more about how they find the perpretrators and how they think. 

OMG! That's a news flash! That certain celebrities are pathological. LOL Can we name some of them? 

I am hoping others will jump in here and express their views or questions about this topic.

Hugs, Flower

[Flower]

Yay! for jumping in here, Proud! 

[CZBZ]

One of the celebrities that Pinsky wrote about was Mariah Carey. He said hotels MUST install gold toilets that have never been used by anyone else or else she won't poop there. Okay, he didn't say that last bit...

His point was that narcissists are ENTITLED and superior, treating 'lesser beings' with disdain. I haven't followed Carey's career so no offense if people love her singing. Maybe we'd all sing better if our toilets were plated in gold?

Pinsky works with celebrities who have addictions and he contends that many of these people are narcissistic, feeding their insatiable needs off the adoration and fame. It's not that celebrity turns you INTO a narcissist but that celebrity attracts you to the spotlight.

Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

Here's one thread we ran a while back though people didn't get into Star Bashing:


http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,6421.msg16430.html#msg16430

Abstract of Pinsky and Young's study:

Narcissism and Celebrity

We used the Narcissistic Personality Inventory (NPI) to assess the degree of narcissism among celebrities. Results indicate that celebrities are significantly more narcissistic than MBA students and the general population. Contrary to findings in the population at large, in which men are more narcissistic than women, female celebrities were found to be significantly more narcissistic than their male counterparts. Reality television personalities had the highest overall scores on the NPI, followed by comedians, actors, and musicians. Further, our analyses fail to show any relationship between NPI scores and years of experience in the entertainment industry, suggesting that celebrities may have narcissistic tendencies prior to entering the industry.

[LDW]

I like Dexter, especially the first and second season, it really gives you a good insight into the way they operate including how they openheartedly give away truths about themselves and therefore getting others to believe they would not lie in a different situation... but I think he's becoming less credible now that his 'conscious' is playing more and more tricks on his head. That's just not going to happen with a real psychopath.