Committment...what is it and how much does it cost?

[RB22]

I resist admitting this to myself is that he 'managed me' on his way out the door.

So true...me too.   I still have a hard time with some of this... especially NOT kicking myself for knowing better... listening to my gut. etc....  Today is hard, I don't know why... but it is.   I know tomorrow will be better... just got to get thru today.

Hugs,

RB

[BlueSky]

This has been a good discussion and it has given me a lot to think about.  Unlike some of the exN's discussed here, my exN was really big on saying all the right things like he'd never leave me and guys that left their wife and kids were 'scum'.  He did his best to look the part of a committed adult - even when things were obviously very bad in the marriage.

When things got really bad in the marriage (we never fought, he got depressed, put on a ton of weight and isolated himself), he started checking out dating sites in secret.  I think he also had two emotional affairs with co-workers.   I am not sure when it was that he told me he felt very disturbed about being attracted to other women while married to me - I think it was post-divorce.  I think now it was a bunch of bs to make him feel better and to manipulate me.  He said something similar when we were dating about feeling bad that he had become interested in me while still dating the previous girlfriend - at the time, the idea both repulsed me and, I am sorry to have to admit, it also gave me a little zing, too. 

I was the one who asked for a divorce, and it was very hard for me to do so.  If I hadn't, I don't know how long it would have taken for him to leave - probably he would have once he'd found someone new.  But I know I took commitment very seriously and my attitude contributed to my staying longer in the marriage than I should have.  I didn't want to get divorced - my parents had split up when I was 5 and it was an experience I didn't want my son to go through and I didn't want to experience it as an adult either. 

After I was divorced, I was amazed by what I read on different message forums and in books - it does seem like many people throw in the towel too easily and leave salvageable marriages.  I hung in waaaaaayyyy too long because the marriage counselors thought the marriage was saveable....it wasn't.  But I know I went through so much in making the decision to leave and felt so guilty about it for quite some time.  Now I know it was the best decision.

I am sure that my experiences as a child impacted what I did as an adult.  My mom remarried a guy a few years after the divorce and it lasted 6 months.  After that, she met my step-dad and they lived together for 4 years before getting married - which as a child I really did not like.  They broke up and got back together often and it felt chaotic to me.

So, when I got serious with exN, I promised myself that I was going to work hard on staying together.  I didn't want to make a mistake and get divorced after a short time together.  I was also uncomfortable living with exN before we got married, but didn't stand up for what I wanted and let him move in.  Once he'd moved in, then of course I felt that was just about the same as getting married and that I ought to do that - that I should be as committed to the relationship as I could.  I didn't want to break up and get back together like my mom did.  That was some pretty demented thinking on my part, eh?   

That not wanting to live together only to end up breaking up led me to marry exN when I had doubts and very cold feet.  He'd already begun to be verbally abusive before we married.  Looking back now, I believe that my gut was clueing in on the N behavior - my head was confused with exN saying one thing and doing something else.  So I talked myself into ignoring what I was seeing and going ahead with marriage.

I took my vows seriously - that you stayed even when things were really tough.  At the end of the marriage, I knew exN had some huge problems, and a part of me wanted to run and a part of me wanted to try to support him in some way - although I knew I couldn't do the work for him.  I'd been to enough Al-anon meetings years before so I knew that and I was also in group therapy with other women who were staying in marriages with porn-addicted spouses.  I felt bad about breaking my commitment to him and the marriage.  I felt bad about leaving him when it was obvious he was having so many problems.  That seems so funny to me now because once I really started telling exN about my own struggles, he couldn't be supportive of me.

I liked the article which talked about commitment and that the two people involved had to be in agreement on what that meant.  I think it is good info for any relationship.  Of course, with an N, they say all the right things in the beginning about commitment if they think that'll win you over.

Thanks again for the great articles CZ!

[tango3]

" he would keep me around for another year.  I always thought he was joking....apparently not. "

Wow, mine would make similar sort of comments....  I thought he was just joking too. 

[LDW]

CZ,

thank you for this checklist, next partner is going to get it!!!

no really... thanks again, very helpful but also very confrontating... I mean: 'what was I thinking???'.

L

[Litha]

Then, there are the pre-committed couples that generally fall into two categories-

UNCONSCIOUS- typically following the "mini-marriage" model of trying the relationship out, acting committed without actually making the commitment. A disconnect of fact and attitude.

CONSCIOUS- aware that they are not yet committed, usually have commitment as a goal, asking themselves "Is this the right relationship for me? Should I make a commitment?" An alignment of fact and attitude.

I think this is key, and I have always fallen into the unhealthy UNCONSCIOUS pre-committment. I also suspect this is the state in which a narcissist wants to keep his partner prisoner (whether they are legally married or not). This is also in line with Dr. Harley's writing, as he strongly encourages single people to maintain what is described here as the CONSCIOUS pre-committment.

CONCLUSION

So, when is a relationship committed?

-- When there is an alignment of fact and attitude.

What creates the "fact" of commitment?

I propose these three criterion:

CRITERIA #1: Promises made to each other about the permanent nature of the relationship that are kept

CRITERIA #2: Explicit, formal, public declaration

CRITERIA #3: Unambiguous to partners and others

In today's world, if all three of the above are met, I would say it is a committed relationship, whether legally married or not.

This is interesting to me because it separates the FACT of commitment from the appearance. So if one partner begins to display "ambiguity" about the relationship, then it is IN FACT no longer a committed relationship even if the legal document has not yet been dissolved.

I recall during the Clinton/Lewinski scandal there was much discussion about "what is infidelity" because of some attitudes about oral sex or "cigar sex" not being real sex and therefore not actual infidelity. So a research group decided to find out what prevailing opinion was. Subjects were given a series of scenarios that ranged from a business handshake to full intercourse with kinky twists. The subjects were then asked to identify at which point along this continuum they would call it infidelity if the found out their partner had done it.

The most popular answer was "my partner had lunch with a member of the opposite sex and did not tell me about it." The emphasis here being on the clandestine nature of the encounter, not the simple act of lunch with a friend. The secretive behavior introduces ambiguity into the relationship, thereby undermining commitment.

I once mentioned this study to my ex-N and he went off about how unfair that was. Just another red flag I ignored.

[CZBZ]

"I took my vows seriously - that you stayed even when things were really tough.  At the end of the marriage, I knew exN had some huge problems, and a part of me wanted to run and a part of me wanted to try to support him in some way - although I knew I couldn't do the work for him.  I'd been to enough Al-anon meetings years before so I knew that and I was also in group therapy with other women who were staying in marriages with porn-addicted spouses.  I felt bad about breaking my commitment to him and the marriage.  I felt bad about leaving him when it was obvious he was having so many problems.  That seems so funny to me now because once I really started telling exN about my own struggles, he couldn't be supportive of me." ~BlueSky


This sums up my own philosophy about marriage, BlueSky. Thanks for posting that.

In all honesty, I'm not sure I could have ended our marriage had my partner not done something so terrible as to have an affair. That's what it took to get rid of me and he was willing to take action.  

I hate admitting this too...but I'm pretty darn sure he tried 'starving our relationship to death' and when that didn't get me to leave, he had no other option than to blow it up.  

Still, I don't hate myself for being so 'committed' to marriage and family and all those ideals keeping me washing poopy diapers without resentment. I still believe in sticking things out through thick and thin, serial forgiveness (ha!), focusing on the future, on the kids, prioritizing their welfare as a big part of keeping the relationship together and gee, my ideals are pretty awesome really.

I was just married to the wrong guy.

I really liked that posted article, too. I've read it several times now and it clarifies a lot of things...I didn't recognize that his attitude was changing or that he was seriously contemplating leaving his family. We had the papers, we had the public perception that our relationship was 'committed' (which is likely why he had to MOVE prior to springing the Other Woman on me) but what we didn't have was a mutual attitude of commitment.

I think what this thread and article are suggesting to me now is that there may be signs that a partner is 'questioning' his or her commitment. Maybe they bring up certain topics or perhaps they create an 'annual review'? I'm surely not the only woman who believed that her partner was committed when he wasn't?! Perhaps there are warning signs that a partner is considering leaving and his formerly committed attitude has changed. Sounds like many of you experienced a similar thing as myself.

Hugs,
CZ


p.s. I'll transfer the articles to the information section on healing. that way, they won't get lost in a thread.

[BlueSky]

I think my exN tried to 'starve the relationship' as well.  I think its what happened in the relationship previous to ours.... the prior gf was also the one to 'pull the plug' after things had been bad for a year - exN didn't have it in him to do that.  Perhaps it made him feel better that he was the dumpee?

It took something dramatic to blow things up in our case as well.  I know that his viewing child porn definitely hastened the end of the marriage, that was the bad thing I couldn't overlook or ignore.  And with his getting emotionally attached to coworkers and cruising dating sites and hookup sites, I think it was definitely possible that exN would have eventually found another woman.  Anyway, for years now I've been glad he did what he did as it showed me who he was and it did help me leave a very unhealthy situation.

In thinking about commitment and how to tell when a partner is becoming uncommitted, I know all I saw was him talking way too much about coworkers that happened to be women and him isolating himself once our son was born.  I didn't know he was cruising dating & hookup sites until the last year of the marriage.  Meanwhile, during the last year of the marriage he was spouting all the stuff you'd expect:  he still loved me, he still wanted to be married, he would go to marriage counseling if I wanted him to, etc. 

But, yes, the disconnect between a stated commitment and a person's actions tells you a lot and that was there.  Despite all his promises and all his positive words, I never felt he truly meant them because he didn't change how he was behaving.  For a guy who said he wanted to save the marriage, it sure didn't look like it to me.  Though it crosses my mind now that he wanted me to take all the blame and do all the work, goodness knows an N is never to blame and shouldn't have to work at anything!  I think a part of him wanted to be married and not divorced because divorce would make him look bad to family (his family is VERY anti-divorce) and friends. 

By the time we got to the last year of the marriage, I was aware he'd been lying for years and I did not trust anything he said.  So, my gut said the marriage was going to die.    I just didn't want to let go until I felt I'd done what I could to save it.  Usually, I don't feel bad about that.