GRIEVING THE PATHOLOGICAL LOSS

[Legs]

I think to extend "forgiveness" as I understand it, a person has to be sorry for what they did, stop doing it and be able to care about why what they did hurt you and they must have remorse. But some things can never be forgiven unless maybe you can learn to forgive yourself. If you trust someone and they abuse that trust, that doesn't make YOU the bad person



Legs, who might have missed the point here but I don't EVER want to get to the point where I don't have room for some anger, hurt and bitterness.

[Never again]

Hi Chime,

ACoN = Adult Child of a Narcissist

[Never again]

If you trust someone and they abuse that trust, that doesn't make YOU the bad person

I know, and yet I can't help feeling stupid.

Well, maybe I'm just happy to have any reason to consider myself stupid.

Trained that way ..

In a grump today ..

[CZBZ]

ACoN is an acronym for Adult Children of Narcissists. I believe it was derived from the Adult Children of Alcoholics program (ACoA). The ACoA literature is also useful for people who grew up in narcissistic families, even though those families may never have abused or even used alcohol.

Hugs,
CZ

p.s. I posted before seeing other people had replied.... 

[alatariel]

ACoN= adult child(ren) of narcissist(s)

I remember seeing ACoA a lot in Alanon literature, (adult children of alcoholics) before I ever heard of ACoN.

crap, I did it too, posted before I saw the replies.  Sorry!

Anyways, ITA with Legs here,

I think to extend "forgiveness" as I understand it, a person has to be sorry for what they did, stop doing it and be able to care about why what they did hurt you and they must have remorse. But some things can never be forgiven unless maybe you can learn to forgive yourself.

I will never forgive dickhead for his suicide attempt.  Ever.  B/c that could have had profound and unhealable affects on my children.  And he never wanted forgiveness, nor cared that what he did was wrong, and he continued the abuse right up till I left, and still does his best to abuse me today.  He doesn't have any remorse, never has and never will, b/c in his twisted mind everything he does is justified.

OTOH, I'd absolutely love, love, love to get to the point of indifference and detachment.  Maybe when the boys are grown and responsible for their own relationship with him.

[Imogene]

I misspoke in suggesting that there was an actual method to the process of detaching.  In Anna Karenina, Kitty's parents take her abroad to a spa when she becomes ill from Vronsky's betrayal.  I wouldn't mind that!  But for me, it's just a matter of time.

[Never again]

Thanks for your reply Imogene. No magic formula then? Oh well. Just have to keep plodding on so. I know the wounds will eventually heal, at least to the point where they don't hurt any more (I expect to always bear the scars, though), but I still reserve the right to consider him lying scum for the rest of my days.

Never again

[daisyk9292]

So many threads so little time! This one in particular I noticed fit in perfectly with my day yesterday. I had a "grieving" day. The trouble is I sometimes don't know what I am grieving exactly. My life is and always has been so complicated. That's the only word I have for it.

Yesterday, I was missing the N I had EA with. I was crying and saying outloud, "Why do I still feel like I love him?" "Why after 4 years am I not over this?" Then my mind goes to "Am I avoiding grieving something else?"

I've spent days grieving the loss of the parents I never had or will ever have. The loss of an emotionally healthy childhood, or emotional support I wished I would've had. The loss of things I may have been able to accomplish if I had it. The loss of my sense of self. The loss of a child I never had at 22, because I was told by my mother and the father (who is now my H) "There is no other choice"

Yesterday I sat missing the N. I said to myself "What is it exactly you love about him so much?"

N's are morally bankrupt.  Not just b/c they hurt ppl, but b/c they really don't care that they hurt ppl b/c other ppl aren't real to them.

This is the reality. This is the person I love and am missing?

How crazy it all is too. I dated him for 4 years as a teenager and believe then he was the love of my life. But he was abusive back then, a liar, a cheater, a N. But I didn't know.

What crazy person, after 20 years, gets involved with someone with that kind of history, a person who had no qualms whatsoever about being married himself and pursuing a married woman, declares her undying love for him after 2 MONTHS.

Why wasn't I able to handle this myself. Why did I have to tell my H and bring this pain into our lives. We were hit by a shite storm and the N walks off into the sunset. On to the next conquest.

Yeah, I have a terrible time getting over these losses. Or knowing what in the hell to grieve.

Another observation I've had recently when I find myself obsessing about this exN of mine, is I notice I'm filled with jealousy over his life. He has accomplished so much, and he has a fun life. He get's to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. He seems to have this freedom to live the life he wants to live.

I feel like I'm stuck in chains. Trapped, in prison of my own making. Is it because I love too much? Is it because I care too much how it will affect others? I feel too much guilt? I feel guilt when I haven't made it to the store to pack my D's favorite lunch items!!!!

Men in general seem to have so many options and women are just stuck, stuck, stuck. Not as much as our mothers were, but still.

The N gets to live his life his way, and he doesn't seem to be called on his shite. He gets away with doing whatever he wants to do. It seems to make him a very happy man with a very fulfilled life.

I'm always trying to figure out, what is going to make me feel like I'm living my best life, and what can I do to get my needs met, without causing harm to others, yet without feeling like I'm sacrificing myself too much?

You  want to talk about entitlement? When i was involved in this EA, I actually said to myself, "he came back for me" "He really loves me, and God is now seeing that it's MY TURN for happiness"

That's what I'm grieving I guess. The loss of those feelings, I had with EA. I felt alive again, happy, important, loved. That I was finally getting my due, after all the pain and craziness I went through. With my FOO, my H and his alcoholism, my daughter and her ASD dx, that consumed me for 3 years. IT WAS MY TIME!!!

Then it was all taken away, just as abruptly as it came on. I was raised to the top of the mountain and the N pushed me off into the depths of Hell.

Yeah, I get it all the time. "You should be so over this by now" "Something is very wrong with you" "Why think of him? Are you a masochist?" "Why are you sooooo hard on yourself?" 

Well, I wish I knew all the whys. I've been trying to repair the damage for 4 god damn years now. I will NEVER be the same person I was.

Am I grieving the loss of that person too?  Another ramble from my brain which is still scrambled eggs!! 

[CZBZ]

"Well, I wish I knew all the whys. I've been trying to repair the damage for 4 god damn years now. I will NEVER be the same person I was. " ~Daisy

And that is true. That, in my opinion, is the loss. The loss of the person we used to be. The loss of our certainty. Our confidence. An unequivocable belief in our perceptions, our intuition, our reason! The loss of basic assumptions like: good things come to those who wait...bad things won't happen to good people... true love is out there somewhere, waiting for us...life is supposed to be happy. And if you're going through a life crisis, then you aren't doing life 'right' because good people shouldn't have crises. Life is bowl of cherries and all those other cliches we came to believe as facts. My grandma didn't expect to be happy all the time--life was hard and occasionally you laughed if you were lucky. 

Nearly everything I ever believed about life AND MYSELF, was challenged in the aftermath of the N-relatioNship. My point being that we suffer many losses including the loss of the person we used to be. When this an unbearable emptiness floods us with yearning, we assume the answer is re-contacting the narcissist so he can relieve our misery. Which only makes us feel worse. It's like taking an aspirin for open-heart surgery.

If you let down your boundaries and invite him in, the narcissist will gladly take all the space you give him.

I don't think we're grieving the loss of someone who hurt us the way narcissists generally do by the time they leave (or we end the relationship). We're grieving the loss of the person we believed them to be. Many people have said they grieved the loss of who they used to be, too. Oh, the bliss of naivete! I can remember a post that I wrote called "That Girl"...which speaks to the loss of self. It was a turning point for me when realizing that my prolonged grief was not about losing my spouse as much as it was about losing my self.

You can move forward, recreate your life with clearer vision but you cannot go back to being who you were when the N-relationship flourished. You just can't! Hopefully, we will find new directions for ourselves that are fulfilling and meaningful, so we don't make the same mistakes twice.

Don't be too harsh with yourself, Daisy. Don't fret too much about 'why' you miss this man. Just accept that you miss him and let it be. Go ahead and cry. Gosh, sit in a nice easy chair with a box of Kleenex and cry your heart out. Then don't do a thing! Don't make a phone call, email, text, write a letter and don't talk with your husband, your friends or anyone...just sit in the chair and cry. Open the floodgates...let your body and psyche lead the process but do not take action! That's probably my best advice to people---feel it and do nothing. We might feel like we have to take action propelled by our feelings but Doing Nothing can be an action! So don't ask 'why' because there is no ending to that obsessive cycle. Why do you feel like crying? Who cares?!! You just DO. And it will take as long as it needs to take before the angst of grief decreases to momentary sadness.

Hugs,
CZ

[daisyk9292]

"You can move forward, recreate your life with clearer vision but you cannot go back to being who you were when the N-relationship flourished. You just can't!"

The funny thing is, I would never want to go back to being that person. I didn't like her in oh so many ways!!!! Even though I was in such a "blissful" state for 2 months while involved with the N. There was also extreme anxiety and sense of danger. I mean I lost 25 lbs in 3 months!! Best and easiest diet EVER. Of course I've now gained back 40!

CZ - You may read on my other post I did the unthinkable! I did reach out the the N in Oct. I still can't believe I broke down and did so after hanging on for so long!!!

What did I hope to accomplish? At the time I rationalized it as closure - for ME! Ummmm - yeah that didn't do it! Instead it's only caused more damage to my self esteem and psyche. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID thing to do.

To add to my miserable thoughts I now have, "Gee, he got such a good kick and probably very good high off of that one. Probably gave him the most productive week ever, to hear a current update of what he's accomplished with bringing me down to my knees" YAY ME!!!!!!

Holy crap, is this what it's like for someone in recovery, like in AA. I am in recovery? Instead of needing a drink, I need a "hit" of interaction with the N? Does that mean he was "supply" for me??

[CZBZ]

I've heard people describe the victim's "Pull to the Perpetrator" as an addiction. You feel the emptiness and pain and reach for an immediate fix. Your brain can trick you   with the thought that since you feel shitty because the N is gone, you'll feel better if he comes back. That is illogical but we are prone to rationalizing and stinking thinking when going through witdrawal.

At first, I disliked describing our process as an addiction but it seems to work for a lot of people. It's easy to think about it in 'addiction terms' because most of us know about the isms. Being pragmatic, I say "whatever works".

I wouldn't say this man was YOUR supply because you are not "a narcissist." You were not using him like an object or a drug...you saw him as a human being and attached to him emotionally. You may have an unhealthy bond to him that developed as a teenager, I dunno. That's for professionals to figure out but whatever the reason is behind your pull towards him, you still have to deal with the cravings!

I'll read your other post!

Hugs,
CZ

[Chime]

Hi Chime,
ACoN = Adult Child of a Narcissist

Thanks Never Again!
 
Chime

[Chime]

ACoN is an acronym for Adult Children of Narcissists. I believe it was derived from the Adult Children of Alcoholics program (ACoA). The ACoA literature is also useful for people who grew up in narcissistic families, even though those families may never have abused or even used alcohol.

thanks CZBZ
maybe I'll check out some of that lit.
Chime

[CZBZ]

Check out Janet Geringer Woititz. She has written a book titled Adult Children of Alcoholics that you can purchased used from Amazon. I feel that the information applies to everyone in our society...another continuum from pathological families to dysfunctional families. Each of my siblings has their own struggles even though combined together, we cover every point made in Woititz's book.

For a book exclusively focused on the narcissistic family, you may want to read: The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman