Gaslighting

[SusyP14]

"...do these people have a book that they read from???? "Tip #1: If shes on to your cheating ways, an easy way to divert her attention is to blame it on her insecurity and suggest that it will ultimately drive you away if she doesnt stop. Further, if you can convince her to believe that her insecurity/ anger is so severe she should consider therapy, this will benefit you substantially in the long run"..." ~sweetest

After reading this posted from Sweetest and I thought:  Why yes they do seem to have a book they read from.  I think there is some sort of abuse handbook on line and take pages from it.

Are You Being Gaslighted?

http://www.enotalone.com/article/16906.html

Your husband crosses the line in his flirtations with another woman at a dinner party. When you confront him, he asks you to stop being insecure and controlling. After a long argument, you apologize for giving him a hard time.

Gaslighting is an insidious form of emotional abuse and manipulation that is difficult to recognize and even harder to break free from. That's because it plays into one of our worst fears, of being abandoned, and many of our deepest needs: to be understood, appreciated, and loved.

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse10.html

Ambient abuse is the stealth, subtle, underground currents of maltreatment that sometimes go unnoticed even by the victims themselves, until it is too late. Ambient abuse penetrates and permeates everything – but is difficult to pinpoint and identify. It is ambiguous, atmospheric, diffuse. Hence its insidious and pernicious effects. It is by far the most dangerous kind of abuse there is.

It is the outcome of fear.  Fear of violence, fear of the unknown, fear of the unpredictable, the capricious, and the arbitrary. It is perpetrated by dropping subtle hints, by disorienting, by constant and unnecessary lying, by persistent doubting and demeaning, and by inspiring an air of unmitigated gloom and doom (gaslighting).

Ambient abuse, therefore, is the fostering, propagation, and enhancement of an atmosphere of fear, intimidation, instability, unpredictability and irritation. There are no acts of traceable explicit abuse, nor any manipulative settings of control. Yet, the irksome feeling remains, a disagreeable foreboding, a premonition, a bad omen.

In the long term, such an environment erodes the victim's sense of self-worth and self-esteem. Self-confidence is shaken badly. Often, the victim adopts a paranoid or schizoid stance and thus renders himself or herself exposed even more to criticism and judgment. The roles are thus reversed: the victim is considered mentally deranged and the abuser, the suffering soul.

Gaslighting
http://ezinearticles.com/?EmotionalAbuseAreYouBeingTooSensitive?ProbablyNot&id=2386369

In verbal gaslighting, as in the 1944 movie of that name, the perpetrator attempts to make the victim doubt their own perceptions and judgments and accept those of the abuser. This may be done intentionally or unconsciously, but when the victim loses confidence in their own judgment they become easily swayed and accept the perpetrator's point of view, plan or decision.

Since cumulative emotional trauma creates psychological damage much more often than single traumatic incidents, when gaslighting is repetitive and intense, overall mental health may be affected and growing self-doubt can lead to emotional breakdown or even suicide in the victim.

[SusyP14]

This line in particular stand out for me:   It is perpetrated by dropping subtle hints, by disorienting, by constant and unnecessary lying, by persistent doubting

xn lied all the time.  I have so many examples of this.  The weirdest times were when he would tell you something:  I saw your next door neighbor peering in your window.  I would not react and then he would say:  Not really, he was not looking.  So he would ADMIT he was lying.

One time he told me he went to church.  I told him he was lying (xn did not believe in God and had told me several times how much he hated going to church when he was forced to as a child).  He insisted that he had gone and that they had given him a palm.  I told him to get his lies straight because it was NOT Palm Sunday (the one day a year they give out palms during Catholic mass).

Another time he insisted for a week straight (via email) that he had acquired a dog.  I did not believe him and I told him that.  xn liked cats and not dogs.  I told him I would believe it when he arrived at my house with said dog.  When he arrived at my house:  No dog.

It was so bizarre.  I did not realize the PATHOLOGY behind being a pathological liar.  I always thought that if someone lied, it was for a reason, to cover something up, to keep out of trouble.  I am not trying to imply that it is OK to lie, just that under those circumstances, you understand WHY someone is lying.  I also did not recognize this as a sign of abuse.  I never thought of myself as a woman that would be involved in an abusive relationships.  I suppose none of us do. 

[eyes_up]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PD-BGHnjPE

[Litha]

This was something else my ex-N projected on to me. I'm sure he is telling family and friends that I was gaslighting him, making things up and lying to mess with him.

Not only can they make you crazy, they can  convince others that you are the one trying to make them crazy.

[RB22]

This was something else my ex-N projected on to me. I'm sure he is telling family and friends that I was gaslighting him, making things up and lying to mess with him.

Not only can they make you crazy, they can  convince others that you are the one trying to make them crazy.

Been There Done That.... Got The T Shirt.... Not Going Back....

Someone once told me..."your opinion of me is none of my business"   and I keep that motto front and center in my thoughts when dealing with anyone who keeps counsel with him. 

Hugs,

RB

[CZBZ]

Do you think they are always conscious of their lies and distortions?? Maybe not. I wonder if the more psychopathic the narcissist is, the more conscious and maliciously manipulative they are? As if they are playing a sadistic game with our sanity...it must be fun watching someone question their own perception of reality. A way for the sadist to project his own insanity perhaps, watching someone else act out his inner reality. Just ponderin'...



Hugs,
CZ

[Litha]

Both I think CZ. I think he believed many of his own lies (specifically the "I am a very honest, warm, and giving person" lie). But there were times when I saw the sadistic side too, really cold, calculating, and cruel. Those were the episodes he could never remember, and maybe he really couldn't remember them because it would challenge his belief in himself as a good person.

I will never forget, however. Chilled me to the bone.

[CZBZ]

"and maybe he really couldn't remember them because it would challenge his belief in himself as a good person."

Great point, Litha. Probably everyone has seen that sadistic glee in the narcissist's eyes when he knows you're flat on your face and he put ya there.

My X also told me on the way home from the attorney's office (and this was while he was living with another woman), "I am an honorable man!" It was so weird. Of course, I didn't know much about narcissism so for a few minutes, I believed him.  Then I thought to myself, "If infidelity is honorable, what's fidelity? dishonorable??"

It was such a crazy time in my life...and his, too.


Hugs,
CZ

[SydneyFireworks]

Tosser was always rabbiting on about what a good, honourable, generous, philanthropical, thoughtful (blah blah blah) man he was.  I reckon he said "I am a good man" at least three times a day.  Probably trying to convince himself!   

Re the lies, I think Tosser thought everyone behaved the same as him.  He often reacted in a disbelieving manner about things other people said.  Even with little things, eg if I told him I didn't get home from a business meeting till 6pm because of traffic, he would look at me as if he didn't believe me.  Sometimes, he'd even go so far as to say "It couldn't have taken you that long to get home!"   

I think they are definitely aware of their lies and distortions, but perhaps less aware that others don't behave the same way.

Hugs
Syd

[Litha]

They do assume everyone else is like them. I told him once that his neice had confided in me that his rages really bothered her. He accused me of lying!!!

a) he didn't believe that his explosive rages were really that upsetting to his family and friends
b) he didn't believe that his neice would voice any negative feelings about him.

[RB22]

He accused me of lying!!!

While married, he didn't exactly accuse me of lying... more like I hadn't gotten the story straight... Like he KNEW what I was going to tell him? 

After he left, and the girls were dealing with a broken family, and the quick arrival of my replacement....well I had angry kids on my hands.  I had 2 kids on modified suicide watch.. (they were at home, with anything that could possibly use to hurt themselves locked away)  and he accused me of making this up.   They were under therapist/psych care at the time... and I WAS MAKING IT UP!!!!

He told me, he was happy, the kids were happy.  The only one NOT happy with the situation was ME..

Like I should just hop onboard his happy train.

Sheesh.

[tango3]

MiNe is the most wonderful person ever born.  He is supremely unselfish, generous, in fact he was catholic the pope would probably canonize him immediately.

I on the other hand, am evil personified.  Selfish, ungrateful, narrowminded and whatever other bad thing a person can possibly be.  I deserve to starve in a gutter.

Oh and his son didn't have a psychotic break and try to commit suicide - never happened......

[Litha]

While married, he didn't exactly accuse me of lying... more like I hadn't gotten the story straight...

ah yes, you just misunderstood, right? If I had a nickel for every time my exN used that word I could retire.

[Litha]

MiNe is the most wonderful person ever born.  He is supremely unselfish, generous, in fact he was catholic the pope would probably canonize him immediately.

I on the other hand, am evil personified.  Selfish, ungrateful, narrowminded and whatever other bad thing a person can possibly be.  I deserve to starve in a gutter.

Oh and his son didn't have a psychotic break and try to commit suicide - never happened......

I really hate that man. No, really.

[BlueSky]

I can relate to what's been written.  I was often told that I had 'misheard' or 'misunderstood' exN.  He also wouldn't/couldn't see how much our son was struggling with things when he had his fiance move in with him.  Of course, everything was just fine and he wasn't seeing any troubling behavior in our son.  I think he must have seen something.... I did see our son try to hit him on a few occasions at pick-ups/drop-offs.  After he wrote he wasn't going to see our son anymore, he did mention our son told him on a regular basis he hated him.  I am sure he pulled that out only because it suited his purpose.

My exN thinks I am a really bad person, too.  He and his wife have several friends convinced as well - I was once described as a 'demonic presence trying to break up their sweet little family'.   

When exN would tell me that I had 'misheard' or 'misunderstood' him, I believed it the first time or two, then I started thinking to myself, 'no, I remember this correctly and for some reason he's lying', though I didn't confront him.  It helped keep me sane to a certain degree.  What I had trouble with was believing anything that he said - knowing that somewhere in the future - maybe in a few days, weeks, or months - he was going to deny it.  Gave me knots in my stomach.  Since I rarely have to deal with him, that feeling has gone away!  Yay!

[tango3]

I used to go to dog shows (my escape!).  If I told him in advance that I would be going to x on this date, he would deny that I ever told him!  When I insisted that yes, absolutely I had told him, he would then say that I shouldn't have told him so far in advance, how could he possibly remember?  So when I started telling him not so far in advance, that was wrong too.  I just kind of quit telling him because it made no difference anyway.

For me, the worst was I Never understood what the heck he was saying - he may as well have been talking double-dutch.  I consider myself quite intelligent and I have no problem understanding what anyone else in the world says - but him?  I don't know if it was his convoluted mind, but he never made sense to me - of course that was my fault!

[RB22]

If I told him in advance that I would be going to x on this date, he would deny that I ever told him!  When I insisted that yes, absolutely I had told him, he would then say that I shouldn't have told him so far in advance, how could he possibly remember?  So when I started telling him not so far in advance, that was wrong too.  I just kind of quit telling him because it made no difference anyway.

When we needed more money, I started selling stuff at home parties.   I would put on the calendar the dates and times I would be gone... after all we had 4 kids to care for.  He agreed to support me... but I ended up hiring sitters that he eventually came to NOT like and refused to allow me to use them.  Of course he wouldn't come home on the nights the kids needed sitting... but he was home all other nights.   I happened over and over again... till I gave up selling at home parties.  Then it was my fault we couldn't make ends meet... cause I wouldn't help with our expenses.   I couldn't figure out why we didn't make ends meet... till after he left.. and I found reciepts for those years in a file somewhere.... he was spending money on himself....while out those nights I was making money... and he should have been home.

Sheesh....

Hugs,

D

[practicaljude]

What a feeling to realize you’re working, making money for “us” and all along, he’s spending his money and his time with somebody else.  In a big way this was the beginning of the pain…the quiet pain where I wasn’t really sure if he was invested in “us” or not.  He kept telling me it was all my fault; I was suspicious and untrusting and a little part of me believed it enough to keep going back to work with dreams and goals for “us”. 

Finding the evidence…the receipts, the pictures, the email is so crushing.  I think a big part of gas lighting is how it N’s use the layering effect.  What I mean is that they lie – tell us we are nuts – and it’s questionable so we give them another chance.  Then the next time they attempt to reinforce our shortcomings (lol)…”Remember the last time you didn’t believe me?  You’re doing it again?”  We apologize for our lack of trusting and then we find the evidence.  In quiet pain, we feel the betrayal.

N was a specialist when it came to gas lighting.  I once questioned him about what I felt was a lie.  He told me trust was something I would have to work on and I said, “I’ll keep working on it – it’s not too late.”  And he replied, “If you don’t trust me it’s already too late.”  Later, I found what I had suspected was true.  So, not only did he lie but turned it back to me as my problem.  Many times the entire relationship wavered on whether or not I believed him and he used it as a threat, usually saying it kindly.
 
Jude

[RB22]

When exN would tell me that I had 'misheard' or 'misunderstood' him, I believed it the first time or two, then I started thinking to myself, 'no, I remember this correctly and for some reason he's lying', though I didn't confront him.  It helped keep me sane to a certain degree.

I did this too... kept telling myself "this is the truth... he thinks it happened this way... but this is really what happened"   as a way to keep me grounded in reality.  Cause his truth wasn't reality.

What a feeling to realize you’re working, making money for “us” and all along, he’s spending his money and his time with somebody else.  In a big way this was the beginning of the pain…the quiet pain where I wasn’t really sure if he was invested in “us” or not.  He kept telling me it was all my fault; I was suspicious and untrusting and a little part of me believed it enough to keep going back to work with dreams and goals for “us”.

 

And you work harder at your marriage as well as working harder at ignoring that feeling that he isn't invested in 'us'... just him. 

It took me about 2 years of dealing with him devaluing me for me to realize that he was NOT going to change, I had to.