Can anyone explain to me the term triangle?

[~Solo]

I read a response in my original post.  The term Triangle was mentioned.  What is that?

Also:  What is known about covert narcissism? 

Thanks all!

[LDW]

The N wants to create chaos out of order. This is where a third party comes in. Triangulation. It may be the N’s x partner, a new partner, a relative or somebody else. The usual scenario is this person is causing the N all kinds of problems and this is preventing him from having a normal functional life. The N knows we want to help and he uses that knowledge. It usually doesn’t matter if our attempts are successful or not. All the N cares about is that he’s successfully managed to stir the pot and get people pitted against each other turning things into a chaotic state. The N sits back and lets the play unfold to his amusement. If he can keep you and another women too, this is just bonus NS to him. The more the merrier. Your pain is meaningless in the face of additional NS to him. Your ace card will be to know what your N is up to and if your N is in a mess, let him clean it up.

http://narcissisticpersonalitydisorder.aimoo.com/THE-NARCISSIST-Read-Only/10-Easy-Steps-to-Understanding-NPD-1-442025.html

[CZBZ]

Thank you, solo! You are helping me see what we need to do with this forum to make it more user-friendly! It's easy to forget what we didn't know or understand in the beginning. Your questions offer managers a chance to provide the information new members need and I'm grateful for your willingness to ASK. I keep threatening to revamp this forum and set up links the way we had them on our MSN forum (it was so organized and easy-to-use...such a loss when MSN closed all 'groups').

Lynne Forrest has written extensively about the Drama Triangle. You can read her explanation here: Drama Triangle. I also transfer her emails to our Healing section which you can read here: Victim Vocabulary by Lynne Forrest.

Basically, the triangle represents three points: the Victim, the Rescuer, and the Perpetrator. Every drama (including literature) centers around these three points and not one of those points is 'stable'. We all move from one point to the other. The trick is learning how to avoid stepping inside that blasted triangle in the first place. Once you 'see' it though, it's much easier to manage yourself and stop reacting to the narcissist's string-pulling. I'm sure you've seen your husband go from being a persecutor to a victim in a nano-second and once he's feeling victimized, you feel and urge to rescue him! This is truly crazy-making stuff and it's darn exhausting, too!

Hugs,
CZ

[SusyP14]

xn's speciality was triangulating his wife against his mother when he was married.  He used to tell me stories on how he would pit them against each other with THAT smirk on his face.

xn was also a covert narc.  He was not outgoing, life of the party, hey everybody look at me.  He was quiet and humble, the intellectual.

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,6626.0.html

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,6190.0.html

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,6188.0.html

http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/narcissism.php

[CZBZ]

P.S. I have also written about the Drama Triangle on my blog if you like reading long rambling stories. You can read my 'use' of the Drama Triangle here: Rescue Yourself from the Drama.

Another cyber-friend has written about The Drama Triangle and you may find her explanation especially useful.


 


CZ

[Onyx]

My N had a series of online EAs (for lack of a better term).  I caught him in '96, when I came back from burying my dad (nice, huh?) and I have since found some in 2007 to present.  I have no reason to think they didn't also happen between '96 and '07 under another online ID that I haven't found.  As I got outside of the whole mess and was able to look at it a little more objectively, I felt like those EAs were a way to keep him insulated from any emotional intimacy in our relationship, but I wasn't sure if that perception was right.  I think the triangle explains it all.  Thanks!

Funny how the Universe keeps presenting me information as it thinks I'm ready to handle it or deal with it. 

- Onyx -

[CZBZ]

I posted a few archived threads which might be useful to forum members. We may also want to continue talking about the Triangle...one thing for sure, you can read and read and read but you have to put that information to practical use. Reflect on the Drama Triangle and see what experiences you've had that might explain how you ended up being a Persecutor when all you did was Rescue the Victim.

These threads contain valuable links and forum member's joint-learning process. You can read the threads here: The Duck Pond (I know it can be confusing to have so many boards on the forum. If you get lost, just holler. We'll find ya!)

Hugs,
CZ

Threads pertaining to The Drama Triangle located in The Duck Pond:





The Karpman Drama Triangle

I really need advice!

Triangles: the Agony and the Ecstasy

Christmastime is Crisistime

Beware of Rescuers

[~Solo]

I read the Karpman article.  It appears that the triangle is about roles changing?  I can see us both in this triangle.  So, does this mean that I am at fault or just naive to what was happening?  Both?      

BTW- He told me he is signing divorce papers (this is the 25th time literally).  He said he cannot take how I see him any longer.  They are back on the kitchen counter where they always end up.  so sad....  

This last few of weeks, we were trying to put the pieces back together (after 6 MONTHS of complete hell).  Things were going somewhat well (it was tough for him to put forth effort and show affection or have sex twice in the first week-which led him to now none for almost two!-I guess he over did himself!) until this last week when he worked out of town back and forth all week on the coast, making a midnight arrival Tuesday night (he texted me and said he needed to get drunk because things were f'd up? and he'd be home later) supposedly drinking at some quiet bar full of just men.  Funny thing is, I believe him?  He WOULD not respond all week to my intimate advances though and would just say I look beautiful and it's not me, he's just busy and needs to hurry and has a lot on his mind.  It's the same old story.  Leaves me being suspicious (though I am not exactly thinking there is another woman).  Who wouldn't be wondering what's up?

Then during an argument this morning about last nights events which led him to divorce me again, he said that he was at the coast doing his program this Friday that just passed and he was proud of his work and had been calling some of his family and friends about his successful 200 person event in which he facilitated.  I asked him just what that had to do with US?  He was making reference to just how little good I see in him and how everyone there (all strangers) was hugging him and telling him what a great job he did, etc.  I (now knowing more about n) wasn't at all surprised.  This happens a lot.  He says that everyone thinks he's great except me    

So-with this I see how I could add to this triangle by reacting.  I could get upset (be the victim?), then feel bad for him because of what I said to him that made him say he wants a divorce.  Then trying to make nice with him would make me the rescuer for feeling badly?  Then when I show that love and remorse he treats me bad again then I feel like a victim again? ...on and on??  Do I have this concept somewhat right?  

I'm remaining calm.  If he signs them and divorces me, I guess all I can really do is realize this is not love and not a way to spend your life.  I still can't believe I'm in this place, wherever that is and just how exactly did I get here?  

[~Solo]

Thanks again to ALL for links and info.  I'm reading everything I can. 

The link on Covert Narcissism was especially helpful and I can relate to that.  My husband fits more of that one as he has more guilt, shame and depression.  Also, early on, I wondered why he picked me (really!).  I though he was so well put together that he could have some really intelligent, successful, beautiful woman, but instead he chose ordinary me    He knew sooooo many people and women who all adore him, I wondered why he looked for a woman on Match.  That's where we met.  It was my first experience.  I met him within 1 1/2 months of joining and the rest has been history.  Makes me think he was looking for someone not well known....possibly not in his circle of work or networks?  I joined because at the time I was single for a year and a half, don't do bars and worked 7 days a week.  Seemed like a great way to get acquainted with someone   

Also: the Triangle info was great!  I can see my reacting and what it causes and how it keeps it going.  More like the Bermuda Triangle!! 

Someone said that because my N was so loving and giving to the dogs all the time but not to me, that could be triangle material.  Can someone give me an example as to how that would be in this case?  Is this something anyone has dealt with?  Seems to me to be a diversion from having to give to me?  Or somewhere to give something to?  One of the many diversions he creates to always be "busy" and avoid emotional sustenance.   

[RB22]

Someone said that because my N was so loving and giving to the dogs all the time but not to me, that could be triangle material.  Can someone give me an example as to how that would be in this case?  Is this something anyone has dealt with?  Seems to me to be a diversion from having to give to me?  Or somewhere to give something to?  One of the many diversions he creates to always be "busy" and avoid emotional sustenance.

I'll give it a try... My X would come home and be greeted by 4 kids who ADORED him.  He was greeted to squeals of "Daddy look at what I did"  each kid trying to outdo the other in getting his attention.   

I was in the kitchen getting dinner ready.  He was expected to help ME by getting the kids to wash up, and help set the table, and help serve 4 kids. 

The kids gave him unconditional adorational hero love... I loved the man, warts and all.  I knew his warts, the little hero worshippers didn't.

And if he could have, he would have used them as an excuse to avoid me.  Which he did on many occasions.

Hope I got it right, and that it helped.

RB

[~Solo]

Thanks everyone for your valuable feedback!  Looks like the most narc's are famous for diversions....anything to avoid giving love. 

[RB22]

Solo,

I don't know if he can "avoid" giving love... I don't think he is capable of loving anyone.  At least that is the way I see my X.  when I didn't know his faults, I was wonderful.  The minute I saw or even perceived any weakness in him, or saw him as just a meer mortal man, well I was done, devalued, discarded, deleted and replaced.

Yes I thought he was capable of love and he is a very good mirror, he gave me exactly what he thought I wanted.  Because I gave him EXACTLY what he wanted. 

Love is a bargaining chip with these guys, it isn't something you GIVE away....It is something you USE to get what you want from someone.   And that description  isn't love it's manipulation... cause if you loved someone, you wouldn't manipulate them.

Hugs,

RB

[CZBZ]

That's it, RB22!

I will write in the extreme to make an example of how the Triangle invites us to "jump in" and suddenly find ourselves involved in drama and feeling lousy about our reactions:

With your dogs, the narcissist shows them excessive attention, maybe in a way you would like to be attended to. Sometimes when narcissists 'give' attention to other people or animals, we feel a little envious---we wish they'd pay us the same amount of attention. (The narcissist is probably enjoying his sadistic game because he knows you're watching his performance).

When we feel as though we're second-place to the kids or even the dogs, this puts us in the 'victim' role feeling sorry for ourselves and resentful of the kids or dogs for getting the love we wanted. Our victim-feelings (jealousy) move us towards another position in the triangle if we act out and persecute the kids or the dogs. We may not even realize why we're sending the kids to bed early or feeling angry towards them but our jealousy promoted some form or 'retaliation' to get us OUT of that uncomfortable victim role and into the more powerful Persecutor role.

When we 'react' by sending the dogs to their kennels or the kids to their bedrooms, the narcissist is more-than-happy to go Rescue them.

It takes awhile to see the Drama Triangle in action...the more familiar you become with your own reactions and your own behavior, the easier it will be to avoid jumping in the triangle in the first place.

by the way, narcissists LIVE in the triangle.


Hugs,
CZ

[~Solo]

CZBZ- oh my gosh!!  you nailed it!  I always sensed that my N was creating a sort of show.  He knew that I wanted his affections but would lavishly supply for our dogs.  Then, he would criticize me for "lowering myself" to such silliness when I would mention how confused by this I was.  He'd say, "They don't give me any S*$&!, and "They're innocent".  Of course, add in the histrionic and it was a very dramatic show of attention and laughing, throwing of toys, falling on the floor and rolling around, making them bark at him, etc.  DISGUSTING 

~Solo

[~Solo]

Solo,

I don't know if he can "avoid" giving love... I don't think he is capable of loving anyone.  At least that is the way I see my X.  when I didn't know his faults, I was wonderful.  The minute I saw or even perceived any weakness in him, or saw him as just a meer mortal man, well I was done, devalued, discarded, deleted and replaced.

Yes I thought he was capable of love and he is a very good mirror, he gave me exactly what he thought I wanted.  Because I gave him EXACTLY what he wanted. 

Love is a bargaining chip with these guys, it isn't something you GIVE away....It is something you USE to get what you want from someone.   And that description  isn't love it's manipulation... cause if you loved someone, you wouldn't manipulate them.

Hugs,

RB

Another BINGO!  He gave love when he was getting validation early on in the relationship.  The moment I began to move into the next phase of the relationship with needs, desires, and dislikes, he freaked and said "I didn't like him" and he can't live walking on eggshells!....of course that was projection.
That's why they can never make it successfully past courting!  Thank you RB! ~Solo