The Narcissist at Midlife: decompensation

[CZBZ]

EDIT: We ran this thread in April of 2010 but the topic has come up recently so I've bumped it to the top of the board again. Even though it is an 'old' thread, please feel free to continue the discussion! ~CZ

"The stress of aging or illness and the attendant loss of beauty, strength, or cognitive function can undermine narcissistic fantasies of invulnerability and limitless power. It may lead to an empty, depleted collapse on the one hand or a frantic search for compensatory thrill-seeking on the other, both of which are described in the classic “midlife crisis”. Later-life crises, such as one experienced on the eve of retirement, also may reflect narcissistic pathology. For example, a 62-year-old married man was referred for depression by his internist after a month-long course of fluoxetine had failed to improve his symptoms. He was a successful self-made businessman, married with grown children, but for almost a year he had experienced a general lack of zest, anhedonia, and a sense of detachment from his loving wife. His appetite and sleep were undisturbed. On closer examination, his mood was not depression but pessimism tinged with bitterness and resentment, an affective tone frequently encountered in narcissistic individuals. He was bitter that he had never pursued a dreamt-of career as a theater actor. He had a narcissistic decompensation rather than a clinical depression." ~Kernberg, Kohut and Cooper (in our Information section on Narcissism)

"These individuals have a particularly difficult time with the limitations inherent in ageing; NPD has been associated with deterioration in midlife with the realization of mortality and loss of physical vitality (Wink, Costello, ed., p. 149). ...NPD depression is often precipitated by a crisis that punctures the narcissistic grandiosity and reflects the discrepancy between NPD expectations or fantasies and reality (Beck, 1990, p. 239)." ~ Dual Diagnosis and the NPD (in our Information section on Narcissism)

The Narcissist at Midlife: a narcissistic decompensation




WHO am I??????

What does decompensation mean? “Worsening psychiatric condition: the deterioration of existing psychological defenses in a patient already exhibiting pathological behavior.”

Decompensation is a removal of the props/ego defenses sustaining an inflated self-esteem that was unable to 'compensate' for an injury of some kind. In other words, decompensation is likely when the narcissist’s grandiosity is not validated by reality and their Image is impossible to sustain. At midlife, with all the struggles human beings have, narcissists have feelings of hopelessness, inadequacy, desperation, and confusion. Feelings they cannot tolerate, nor process. Midlife taxes narcissistic defenses, challenging the aging individual to mature. I believe that people who may have 'undeveloped narcissistic traits' will suffer, perhaps even have a crisis. That doesn't mean they can't grow and develop---Heinz Kohut leads us to believe that growing up is a lifelong process and we can develop immature aspects our ourselves. That's the thinking about a 'normal' person's midlife crisis.

Then, there's the midlife narcissist. The Tragic man. The collapsible man. The man who appeared to be a shark, suddenly turns into a jelly fish.  Speaking personally, of course.

Anyone who has experienced the ‘collapsible man’ (or woman as the case may be), has been stunned by allegations that we were ‘deficient, controlling, smothering, incompetent’ any of the traits narcissists project onto other people. The midlife narcissist is someone who cannot swallow his pride and as a result, vomits all over the person closest to him or her. That would be the partner who for years, has supported them through thick-and-thin, becoming increasingly weary of the narcissist’s incessant demands. It’s not that we lack empathy or have become indifferent (though some do, it depends on the relationship), we are tired. Maybe there's a furrowed brow that 'sets 'em off', maybe our individuation triggers the narcissist's fears of abandonment. I don't know. What I do know is that all of a sudden, we are accused of being the person the narcissist cannot admit to being.

I started writing about narcissism on the Midlilfe Crisis forum back in 2003, after learning about this strange disorder called NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). I had hoped, as many do, that my partner would work through his problems losing control, losing status, becoming another ordinary cog in the wheel of life; that he would eventually see that escaping reality was less enjoyable than embracing it. That he would wake up one morning with another woman in his bed and suddenly realize how much he loved and valued his family. That even if his wife was too weird for his tastes, his children needed him. This did not happen. If the midlife narcissist has not shown any signs of taking responsibility for behavior that hurts the people who loved and supported him for years, he likely won’t. He’s likely unable to face the destruction he caused, if he even realizes it (or is capable of bearing the truth long enough to see that HE is his biggest problem. Not the role he played in the family, nor the prickly personalities of family members).

It is never easy for ANYONE to tolerate the Walk of Shame when they realize what a mess they’ve made of their lives. It’s pretty darn painful for anyone to process ‘humiliation’ into ‘humility’. If your self-esteem is easily threatened by the mistakes and errors you make in life, grandiosity and self-deception become an easier way out…maybe even permanent. The ability to face other people’s disappointment and accept their willingness to forgive your mistakes is not something narcissists are capable of doing. Anytime we are forgiven, we are surrendering some of our power to BE FORGIVEN by another person holding the power To Forgive. This is an unbearable situation for a narcissist who must maintain the perception of superiority, especially if he or she sees other people as inferiors. Imagine a peon forgiving The King?

The midlife crisis with all the accompanying destruction people do to their lives when the Inner Child (or Inner Adolescent) is given free reign to act impulsively, selfishly and without consideration for others, is very hard to resolve. Depending on the degree of someone’s narcissism, they may NOT be able to face themselves after losing ‘face’ in their community. It takes a lot of self-worth and confidence to admit to having harmed other people you cared about. Still, many people are able to reconcile relationships and my assumption was that ‘everyone’ was capable or willing to do whatever they must to clean up the mess they made at midlife when our limitations stick out like a sore thumb and mortality becomes a certainty.


Oftentimes, a narcissistic injury of some kind precedes the midlife narcissist’s decompensation

In my life, my partner had suffered a major insult at work, his Star Status was sullied; any idea that he would be the next CEO of a major corporation was shattered. His own impulsive reactions had undermined his plans because at some point or other, people were unwilling to excuse his rash behavior. As other people have mentioned on WoN, my spouse was also involved in a sexual harassment suit which never went anywhere, but the threat was there. It was a constant reminder of his limitations. Those darn corporations! Imagine not being able to pat your secretary's ass!

The biggest threat though, was the damage his behavior did to his family's perceptions of him as a New-Age Fabulous Man who really ‘got’ women’s predicament in the workplace.

After his ‘breakdown’ at work, verbally abusing his boss (whoa…not a great career move, there buddy!), he lost his position in the company and was granted six-months paid leave to get himself together. Now wouldn’t you think that a normal person would avail themselves of the ‘free’ psychotherapy a company was willing to give? Wouldn’t you think that a normal person would be so grateful to a company that didn’t just FIRE his arse, but valued him enough to provide any help they could while he got himself back together?

That’s not what happened, however.

He was not grateful. He was resentful. I don’t believe at this point, that he had the capacity to process humiliation into humility. His anger increased, becoming a frightening rage at times, so furious was he at “institutions’. Institutions like corporations, religions, even marriage. Let me tell you, I was so confused at the time and tried my best to encourage him to get some help rather than relying on me. But he wouldn’t. He absolutely refused. He preferred sitting by a stream and contemplating like Siddhartha…as if the thinking that got him in this mess in the first place would get him OUT of the mess. He became more and more depressed, that much was obvious and his personality changed. He was more distant than ever and I could almost sense the ‘rage’ underneath his smile when talking to me. I was very unprepared for what was to come later…because I became the mother of all evils, the woman he feared would kill him, the person he saw as manipulative, hateful, and abusive. Which as anyone who knows me knows, is preposterous.

My concern for so many people writing about the midlife crisis is that they minimizing the danger of a partner who flips reality backwards and sees other people as ‘threats’ to the narcissist’s survival. For a narcissist you see, the False Self is the only self they know. When the False Self is exposed (or the mask slips), it IS life-threatening to a narcissist. If there is no False Self, there is no one inside…just a big dark abyss of bottomless rage and fear.

So when a partner confronts the midlife narcissist’s outrageous behavior, she might as well be pointing a machine gun in his face. That is how he perceives his loss of ‘status’ in her eyes. It IS life-threatening.

Forgiveness? Yea, you are likely willing to forgive. Understanding? Yea, you are likely to understand. But if someone MUST maintain power and control, your forgiveness and understanding are threats to their superiority. I remember saying to my husband, “Whatever has passed, has passed. Let’s work on our marriage. I forgive you.” And instead of tears and gratitude, he nearly bit my head off. “Forgive me?” he ranted. “I should be forgiving YOU; and I don’t!”

Bizarre. Reality turned backwards and we, the closest people to the narcissist, are the ones they must destroy. Would that they destroyed the False Self instead. But then, I don’t know. Maybe there really isn’t a wounded child inside just waiting to come out and play?

My questions to everyone (if you’re still reading this epistle, ha!) are these:

1): Was there a narcissistic injury of some kind preceding the midlife crisis?

2): Were you afraid for your life?


Hugs,
CZ

[RB22]

My X had a series of small ones.. leading up to a bigger incident. 

1.  he was not considered for a position that he not only applied for, but was recommended for (by the predecessor in the position) by his boss, and he was the person acting in that position for 9 months while the company searched for a director.  He was not offered an interview, which went against company policy. 

New Boss came in.... another abusive personality. 

2. He told a joke with sexual content... and someone reported him. He was reprimanded, the letter put in his, otherwise, stellar personnel file. He was made to take EXTRA sexual harrassment classes, and he was not allowed to travel overnight on company business. 

I discovered this timeline after our divorce.  He told me that the company was not allowing anyone to travel overnight.. as a budget measure.  The person who filed the complaint was let go.... due to her having an affair with someone else at work.. or so he told me.

Now here is where it gets a bit twisted....after out divorce he took a lower paying job to be closer to his new home with the new soulmate.  As a result he wanted a reduction in CS... I fought it.  In the process of finding all I could about his former position, I ended up with a complete copy of his personnel file. I found the letter of reprimand, and the no travel sanctions orders.  I also found his voluntary resignation letter. Which was part of what I needed to prove he was not being let go, (he told me he felt they were going to let him go).  I had to subpeona his bosses to tell the court he was NOT going to be let go... etc.   

He had his attorney subpeona  the woman let go a few years earlier.  funny thing.. she found herself working for the school board... at the same facility I was working at... we were friendly.  She told his attorney that she couldn't see how her testimony would help his case...cause she was let go several years prior and did not know the latest budget conditions that his company was working with. 

After all was said and done... she also told me that he acted inappropriately with various woman at work, and he was the reason she lost her job. 

She never directly told me that she and he had an affair.. but other people have told me that they were inappropriately close. 

All of these little and Big incidents led to his scrambling to find a replacement for his N supply... both at home and at work.  In his replacing me, she took on the responsibility of keeping his ego boosted... by emotional torturing me.. and sometimes the kids.  I was never fearful of him.... but her??? well that is a different story.  and why I had the sheriff sitting in a corner at the convenience store where we exchanged kids.. for a few years.  She let my kids know that she was afraid of me, I had made threats to her.  ( I never threatened her)  So she would bring her gun to kid exchange.  Our state passed a law that anyone who feels threatened can shoot in self defense, at the time she said this.  I went to my local sheriff and asked what I can do to protect myself and was given a bunch of guidelines of behavior for kid exchange, and advised to call the other county's sheriff for help also.

I have been divorced for 7 years, 2 years ago they moved into my county and live within 10 miles of me.  She STILL goes out of her way to drive by my house...and still cyber stalks me.

I do fear for my well being... but mostly fear for my kids emotional well being.

[tango3]

No narcissistic injury that I know of, but his father was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer 14 months before everything imploded.  (I'm not sure the diagnosis was correct as 3 years later his father is still alive).  It was bizarre the entire family was thrown into this absolute panic - you'd have thought the world was coming to an end!

The last year we were together N became increasingly strange in his behavior.  The firehouse at the end of the road was having a new roof - N would rant and rave about the "waste" of money and how they didn't need a new roof!!!!!  I mean who cares? 
Then there was the entire renovation of the house he insisted on doing (spent tens of thousands of dollars), I didn't ask for this, I was happy enough with what we had but apparantly he wasn't. 

He had his own business and was making a ton of money, I think that went to his head, and the fact that he never got the adulation he thought he deserved first from his father, and then from me.  I could have done with a whole heck less money if it meant I actually had a marriage (you know someone who came home and spent time with me).  Instead he spent increasing amounts of time with his FOO, and I know he listened to their poisonous whisperings about me.


The economy started to tank and he was starting to worry about getting work, heck I was worried too.  But when I expressed my concerns I got my head bit off.  He started having problems sleeping, when I tried to explain that this was pretty normal in mid-life I was told I was "stupid" and didn't know what I was talking about.  By this time he was barely coming home at all (he had an appartment near his business because it was just too much to drive an hour home - I tried to be understanding (pretty stupid in retrospect).  Finally he hooked up with some old "friend" on Facebook and that was the end.  I guess my telling him that the only reason he did all the renovations in the house was to impress his family didn't go down well either!  N's don't appear to like the truth.

What do other people think of him?  Well I don't know anyone who really likes him or ever did like him.  His employees despise him.  Turns out most of my friends really didn't like him either.  His children don't like him that much and his stepson loathes him.

Was I afraid for my life?  Well two of my friends have letters to be taken to the authorities should I suddenly disappear.

[BlueSky]

Your questions have got me thinking.....  It wasn't until post-divorce that I found the really bad reviews of exN stuffed in the back of a file cabinet.  I am trying now to remember for what time period they were....and I am thinking it may have been around the time he first really broke down and told me what a fearful person I was, how many things about me he didn't like, that I was a 'drain', etc.  He seemed to be back to 'normal' soon after the breakdown....but now I know he had difficulties at work that he never told me about and I wonder if they played a part in what happened.  I think the mask slipped briefly.

His wanting to go off and find adventure didn't appear until a few years later - when he was in the midst of a big depression.  When he was depressed, he was nearing 40 and I do think he was very unhappy with how his life was going.  He had changed supervisors and was getting better reviews - work was going better, but he was very depressed and I think a lot of it was to do with his really not wanting what I'd call a 'traditional family life'. 

By the time I was leaving the marriage, yes I was in fear that exN would harm me.  Finding a gun in the house that I didn't know was there really freaked me out.  I hid it in another place.  I figured he'd eventually find it, but that it would be after enough time had passed that he had stabilized.  Not sure that he ever truly stabilized as things got very weird once his new wife arrived on the scene.

Anyway, exN lost a ton of weight post-divorce (he had started losing weight before the divorce, but he looked positively anorexic post-divorce), went on a exercise binge, whitened his teeth, and once got a spray tan - which I thought was hilarious.  He started doing a lot more adventurous stuff and met new people.  I was glad about that because when we were married he expected to do everything with me, had few friends he did things with and I did not like all the pressure he would put on me to arrange the outings as they had to be something we hadn't done before and they could not end up being some kind of disappointment to him.  Glad I don't have that to deal with anymore.  I think its a good thing that he is apparently living the adventurous life he wanted as I think it keeps him away from us for the most part.  I think he's changed in some ways, but my gut says that its likely he still has the N traits.

Edited to add:  Was just recalling how the comments on the bad reviews showed my exN had displayed many N traits at work:  interrupting people when they were talking, telling people they were wrong, not listening to other's ideas, etc...  at the time I read the reviews, I was shocked as he had always gotten such good reviews, but I wasn't surprised about the content of the comments as they were things he'd been doing to my family & friends for quite awhile.  It was just interesting to find out that he'd done it at work and been called on it.

I think you were likely looking for something different, CZ, as exN was in his late 30's when he seemed to hit a mid-life crisis (seems early) but although there was a long lapse of time before exN really started to go downhill, I do wonder now if having several bad reviews in a row is part of what started it.

[FreeGal]

Oftentimes, a narcissistic injury of some kind precedes the midlife narcissist's decompensation

CZ - a fascinating topic!

Definitely my stbxNh had a midlife career crisis when he was "caught" in a very suspect deal (which by the way made $$$ for 10 of his "best buddies" who in the end were supeoned or interrogated by the regulators - and ALL refer to the N now as their "ethically challenged" friend) 

The Regulators (called "thugs" by the N) caused grey hair, paranoia, stress, lack of sleep and fundamental destruction to the N over 5 years.

And I, his loving and supportive wife, never quite trusted him from that day onward  i wondered really and truly if he was "above board' - so needless to say, the N looked in the mirror (me) and the mirror was broken!

He began to exhibit true N decine after being revealed to his close allies - friends and lover(s?)!

Lucky for him, he got OFF on a technicality - pure and utter luck!!! Saved his career, his face but decompensation began!  He could not help it...he deteriorated steadily, self-sabotaged, self-destruction, self-alienation, projected abandonment - he made it all happen...

...and now that the ultimate narcissistic injury is occuring - DIVORCE - complete dismantling of a safe and secure existence - it just remains to be seen what is next for the D-evil ... Decompensation (excellent concept!)

[FreeGal]

oh...and was I afraid for my life?

I was afraid for 16 years - sometimes desperately but always in some form or another. It wasn't necessarily decompensation or the after-math of the midlife career crisis that I found myself all of a sudden fearing for my life - it was ALWAYs there...

...what about you CZ - where you afraid for your life?

[FreeGal]

...so, just reading back my post - the narcissistic injury - being caught and punished by the authorities - (his grandiose scheme revealed) - at the age of 45 years old - definitely caused midlife decompensation.  He has never taken such a risk again.

But amazingly enough, he pulled himsef OUT - by "dissing" as my teenagers would say - everyone around him - classic N superior self -thinking.  He didn't care that he lost friends, colleagues, wife's trust!  Again classic N - "who nees anyone else, when I have my wonderful self - it was all their fault anyway"

But I see an older, more strained, less secure, agonized man who continued to self-destruct.

I laughed when I saw a "fancy" car in his driveway as I dropped of kids last night - again, he is trying to be grandiose, impress his children, seek attention...

So question is, how much reserve does he have, how long does it go on until he implodes?  How long can a N injure, decompensate, build again, injure, decompensate...?

FreeGal

[honeybearII]

Looking back, there were a series of blows over several years that DEFINITELY triggered my exNH's escalation of his bad, private behavior.  While I thought we had weathered these things and we seemed to be "back on top", I see now that he harbored the slings and arrows of life and NEVER moved past it all internally. 

I cannot imagine how painful it really must be for an N to be confronted with the reality that he is NOT the Special, Unique, Perfect Person he believes himself to be.  They live grandiose lives, convincing themselves they are above the norm and making sure they surround themselves with supply that tell them the same thing.  To be brought down must really set off those narcissistic rages deep inside of them.

Honey

[CZBZ]

To RB22:

"After all was said and done... she also told me that he acted inappropriately with various woman at work, and he was the reason she lost her job. She never directly told me that she and he had an affair.. but other people have told me that they were inappropriately close." ~RB22

There's always more to the story than the narcissist tells his family, isn't there? At least, I think that's true. We might get a small version of the truth, twisted as it will be to protect the N's image with us...it's not the WHOLE truth, though. You're kinda lucky being able to track your X's history at work, most of us speculate and never know for sure. People wonder why a woman stands by her partner (like so many politician's wives do) and says she still loves him and he couldn't possibly have done the things he's accused of doing, when from an outsider's point of view, he's guilty as hell. To the wife and the family however, they've seen a different personality. They may only have witnessed bits and pieces here and there, the ol' Jekyl-Hyde Cognitive Dissonance Syndrome. This is why I get a little fired up when folks say family members were in denial or collusion with the narcissist. Fact is, narcissists are masters of disguise.

The interesting thing about your situation, RB22 is that your spouse was 'warned' about his behavior. He was still valuable to the company, though they were probably reluctant to promote someone they could not trust to maintain proper decorum in the workplace. All those women, all those admiring women, all those available women---gosh, what's a widdle narc supposed to do? Not take advantage of the situation??? My compassion for an aging narcissist is this: the adoring flattery of women who idealize men with power would be pretty darn hard to resist. Narcissists can't resist the unconditional admiration and applause and end up destroying their lives. That doesn't mean they're innocent, it just means they're easy targets. So put a narcissist in a company and surround him with women who see him as a prize and it's like striking matches next to a stack of kindling.

When the narcissist finds 'easy' supply, his wife and family become Too Much Work by comparison. Too much work maintaining the image, keeping up with his appearances, and holding him to specific standards of behavior. We become 'back-up' supply to the easy supply throwing themselves at his feet. That's when WE Get the blame for being controlling, or for not pleasing them---it's the way they justify their unjustifiable behavior. Narcissists know right-from-wrong and the only way to save FACE for themselves is to blame other people for 'making them do that.'

" She let my kids know that she was afraid of me, I had made threats to her.  ( I never threatened her)  So she would bring her gun to kid exchange. "

I'm also really really curious about the next women the midlife narcissist partners with. Not in all cases, but in some, she may have borderline traits that enmesh the narcissist and make him feel like he's really loved in comparison to his X-wife who didn't cater to his every need. Please don't anyone hear me generalizing about borderline personality disorder but it IS the perfect match for a narcissist. In your case, RB22, perhaps you have entertained the thought that you are dealing with a 'fatal attraction' type woman with one foot in reality and the other in fantasy? She is not afraid of you, she's projecting...afraid of herself and what she might do. You have to take precautions when someone acts the way she has and not ignore the warning signs that she may act on her paranoid perceptions AND her hatred for other women (competition). You were smart about it, though.

How did you figure out that 'she' was a tad wacky and you needed police protection? Borderline narcissists are so convinced their perceptions are 'real and valid' that they manage to convince other people, too.

I feel so bad for your kids...what a crazy thing for them to go through!

The interesting thing about the midlife narc and his borderline soulmate is that HE can sit back and let HER do his dirty work. It's an ugly situation for everyone involved.


Hugs,
CZ

[practicaljude]

1): Was there a narcissistic injury of some kind preceding the midlife crisis?

Not in his employment world.  But, he saw my things and my income as potentially a lot more than what he’d have without me and when I said I wouldn’t marry him it seemed to change lots of things.  He also has another woman from England who is quite well off; she also said she’d marry him but after my intervention    she called it off.  Who knows how many simultaneously decided he was rat poison?  He told me he was “going for money” for his kids (college and such).  Yeah, right.

Today:  Daughter got school loans and the woman from England and I still talk via the internet…and not about him!

2): Were you afraid for your life?

Absolutely!  Those who have heard me ramble here know I had a dream in which he was trying to kill me, which led me to the computer in a sweat, which led me to a NPD support group.  The dream went on forever – I ran and ran…I’d find a spot to hide and he’d find me…he had a spear in his hand and I’d see him coming so I’d run again; he’d find me.  I tried to tell people along the way he was trying to kill me, but then I’d see him again and start running.  To this day I’m convinced this was soul-talk – a spiritual intervention.

I have a chemical depression that raised its ugly head off and on after I left N.  As I reflected about where I’d been and where I was going, I’d get depressed thinking “this is not how it was supposed to be.”  Not sure if that was a midlife crisis (way past midlife) or PTSD, loss issues, betrayal issues, mom’s death, the Norman Rockwell family facade I lived, or just what.  As the years tick by I’ve finally found acceptance…a little personal work goes a long way. 

 
Jude

[CZBZ]

To Tango:

"No narcissistic injury that I know of, but his father was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer 14 months before everything imploded.  (I'm not sure the diagnosis was correct as 3 years later his father is still alive).  It was bizarre the entire family was thrown into this absolute panic - you'd have thought the world was coming to an end!" ~Tango

Maybe in a way, it was. A few writers, Sam Vaknin in particular, have suggested that narcissist's suffer a breakdown when a parent passes away. That parent was the repository of the narcissist's frustration, anger, or even idealization. So when they're gone, the narcissist has no where to project his frustration. I think of it like ObeWanKenobe dying and becoming even stronger when he's no longer there. though it's doubtful your X's father was an ObeWanKenobe spiritual guide.

Midlife is a narcissistic injury. The minute a narcissist wakes up and realizes he or she is gonna die at some point, that their grandiose dreams are not coming true, that they must face being ordinary like all the rest of us ordinary folks, THAT constitutes a narcissistic injury. Midlife will be a difficult if not impossible transition from Dreams to Reality. Feelings of powerlessness, a loss of 'meaning' in life, the realization that they cannot have or do or be everything they wanted, are insupportable. So the reality of death, as parents pass away and friends or family members pass away, becomes intolerable. Narcissists seems to me to fight even harder for control over something they have no control over. I don't know but have wondered if a serious depression is the result. They regret the missed opportunities in life and instead of coming to peace, blame other people or institutions for thwarting their success.

Midlife can be challenging for everyone, though most people transition to a wiser, more accepting view of live and their place in the whole scheme of things. Some people have a 'crisis', trying to experience everything they believe they missed out on. The degree of 'pathology' though, is expressed in their choices; i.e.: punishing anyone who they believe prevented them from having and doing everything they wanted! It's as if they start fighting reality which is a fruitless endeavor of course and their anger and frustration is displaced because they cannot resolve it themselves. It's externalized and the more they honestly believe their distorted perceptions, the more dangerous they are to others.

I can remember numerous discussions with my X and other family members going through what we call 'A midlife crisis'. I was empathic but completely ignorant to the depth of their despair, assuming it was normal to feel uncomfortable with aging and accepting our mortality. Who likes knowing they're gonna die one day?? I did not understand the extraordinary fear of people who have never found 'meaning' in their life or in their relationships...people who were not comforted by being loved and loving others as a good-enough reason to live. If you always saw people as objects and could not bond with them in a soulful way, the only thing giving meaning to your life would be 'achievements' and 'success' (like finances). Looking at the narcissist's predicament in this way, offers insight into WHY work failures, reprimands, financial losses, etc. are so destructive to narcissists. They measure their value by their achievements, having no true connection to other people.

Depression might push narcissists into therapy (the psychologist counseling us as a couple told the X he was 'clinically depressed' and needed longterm therapy and medication.) As soon as they start to feel better though, they bolt from the office. Digging down to the root of their problems is not the goal---they just wanna feel better.

"Was I afraid for my life?  Well two of my friends have letters to be taken to the authorities should I suddenly disappear." ~Tango

I'm curious about people's intuitive reactions when the narcissist appears to be deranged, delusional, and hateful. If you've ever experienced 'narcissistic rage' upfront and personal,  you know it isn't personal at all. It's as if they are in a time-warp, accusing people of being and doing things that happened in their childhood. Like accusing a wife of being his mother---and you know he hated his mother, so of course, your intuition is screaming in your ears and the hairs on the back of your neck are standing up! It's important to listen to your intuition in times like this and remove yourself from the situation. Unfortunately, a lot of us try to argue with the narcissist and tell them they're acting crazy instead of calming leaving the room and protecting ourselves as we must.

My understanding is that the most dangerous time for a partner is when she 'knows' something about the N that other people don't. If you are the only one who can 'blow his cover', a pathological narcissist will justify seeing you as a threat he must defend himself against. While therapists might encourage people to keep the affair (or other information) private, I believe  the best way to protect ourselves is to make sure other people are also aware. If the narcissist can maintain his image by getting rid of one person, he can justify that. He certainly can.

In a normal relationship, keeping affairs private allows people to save face in the community and facilitates reconciliation. In the narcissistic relationship however, this is dangerous advice. Ask Lori Hacking. Ask any woman who knew something the narcissist did not want other people to know.

Which means other people might think we're being paranoid or hyper-vigilent when we say we're afraid for our lives but you cannot let them dissuade you from what you know inside yourself. Listen to your intution. Disengage. Don't argue with the screaming narcissist to prove you are not the person he accuses you of being. Protect yourself. When a narcissist is raging, he or she is NOT in reality.

"You must trust yourself to know when someone’s behavior has crossed the threshold of unintentional (benign) behavior into intentional (malignant) malice. You may doubt yourself or even fear you’re being paranoid when your intuition starts ringing for your attention. If those alarm bells are clanging like a light tower in the foggy sea, leave the situation. Don’t engage. Don’t react. Just walk away." ~Trust Yourself. Don't Engage


Hugs
CZ

[CZBZ]

To BlueSky:

It wasn't until post-divorce that I found the really bad reviews of exN stuffed in the back of a file cabinet.  I am trying now to remember for what time period they were....and I am thinking it may have been around the time he first really broke down and told me what a fearful person I was, how many things about me he didn't like, that I was a 'drain', etc.  He seemed to be back to 'normal' soon after the breakdown....but now I know he had difficulties at work that he never told me about and I wonder if they played a part in what happened.  I think the mask slipped briefly.

Similar story to most of us...we hear bits and pieces, not the whole she-bang. (now there's a word I haven't thought of in years: She-Bang. It works.   ) The narcissist tells us just a wee little bit o' the truth---enough to garner our empathy, sympathy and good stuff like that. He or she leaves out the part about how THEY contributed to the mess, or created the mess by themselves. It's always those 'other people' who victimize them. They were just sitting there at their desks, working their fingers to the bone all for the good of the company and by gosh if the giant Ogre in the Sky didn't punish their servitude.  

I appreciate what you've written, BlueSky (we know a lot more about this disorder than we realize we know!). When your husband was first confronted with a limitation at work like bad reviews, he likely projected fault and blame onto you. Narcissists throw up all over the person standing closest to them which means they are puking their guts out on the only folks who like 'em enough to stand next to them. (Prolly cuz we don't know the whole story about who they really are).  He accused you of being a drain, of being fearful, etc. which in retrospect you can probably see was Projection. He was accusing you of his defects...his problems. His issues. Uncomfortable truths about himself that he could not integrate within himself, so to get rid of them, he threw up on you. At the time, you may have been just as confused as myself...after all, this person is an Intimate Partner. Someone we trust enough to soften our normal boundaries.

Then he recovered his 'ego defenses' to some degree and no longer needed to puke on his wife. Things were going better at work, he was adjusting and he probably STOPPED aggressively criticizing you. I don't know if your story remains similar to mine, but that calm period before the storm----right when I relaxed into thinking things were getting better, was when he had Disconnected from me as an imperfect partner and found alternative supply. The narcissist may have decided that the 'family life' was too much work, that he'd rather be footloose and fancy free without the demands of marriage. In the narcissist's eyes, he has LOST FACE with us...we become a constant reminder of their failure. Now sure, that doesn't mean we were critical, unforgiving or actually saw them as failures but what we feel and what the narcissist believes is real are two different things. The narcissist has this truly weird idea that whatever he is feeling or thinking is what other folks are feeling and thinking. He does not understand 'individuation' (this goes back to object relations if people are interested in reading more about 'the attachment process'.)

But he may have made up his mind that he was 'movin' on' and never even entertained the idea of telling his wife or family.   That, to me, is because they are not interested in reconciliation now that we are broken mirrors. In other words, they look in our face and see a 'crack' reminding them of their imperfection. What's really tragic to me is that the 'imperfection' we see allows a real relationship to develop that's based on love, not idealization. *sigh*

The ensuing weight-loss and 'make-over' is a sign they're on the prowl again, even if they're telling their wife that they aren't. The deception is unfathomable to most of us...very hard to imagine someone could be manipulating our desire to support them through a 'crisis' of some kind while they seek better supply. I guess a broken mirror will do until a shiny new one comes along.

I think psychologists suggest the midlife crisis begins in our thirties?? Is that because people are beginning to recognize their limitations in work and at home??? Maybe it's normal to transition in our thirties but some people can't do it? I also wonder if the midlife transition starts in our thirties, becoming a drawn-out process for a narcissist who CANNOT process life normally?

I have lots of questions. I've known people who are having a hard time adjusting to getting older, but only a few have ripped their lives apart. Kohut calls the midlife narcissist a 'Tragic man' and that sure sums it up for me. Though I might add: Tragic AND potentially dangerous.

If there's a gun in the house, don't prove how much you trust him by keeping it on the kitchen counter. It's really odd how we react to narcissists when we're accused of being suspicious. Instead of validating our suspicion, we deny it instead. We wouldn't want the untrustworthy narcissist to be reminded by our behavior, that he or she is not trustworthy, now would we? That would be a little too much reality for them to handle. ha!


Hugs,
CZ

[RB22]

Well I guess there are some good things that happen living in a small community...  .  Everyone who knew him, knew me.  He worked in our municipality... so anyone can get anyone's personnel file.. you just have to pay the copying fee. Actually I paid a pittance for the information I got... $10 for about a telephone book thick file spanning almost 15 years.  Well worth it.  

How did you figure out that 'she' was a tad wacky and you needed police protection? Borderline narcissists are so convinced their perceptions are 'real and valid' that they manage to convince other people, too.

She would visit him at his workplace, I was still coming to grips with the implosion of my marriage and I was dropping kids off at his place of work.. visiting with his colleagues... our collective kids were in the same recreation leagues, swim teams... bands, etc... They had become part of my social circle... (who else do you call to remind him to bring snacks/drinks on game day?  The people he works with right?) They all told me to watch my back... that something wasn't right with her.

He left there a year after leaving my family.    They lived 2 hours away, and that was when I got lots of gossip about him during his time working in an outbuilding with 9 women... he and his (abusive) boss were the only males on the premises.  I secretly think his boss was also a N, and hated the fact that my X had known these women for years... and was close to them.  

Besides I had emails from him and her...threatening to tell everybody my dirty little secrets... so I pre-empted them and told everyone myself to take the wind out of their sail.

When the kids told me about her bringing her gun... we had already had an incident where they told the kids they would have me arrested because I was NOT following thru on the visitation plan.  I was.. but our agreement is so ambiguous  and my kids were afraid... I went to the family law clerk.. had her look over the agreement and she gave me a bunch of advice... first was to go to the sheriff and discuss my predicament with him.  I did, and became friends with him and his community liason person....I found out that I couldn't be arrested for violating the agreement... even though she has friends on the force.  etc..  

So when the kids told me about her bringing her gun... I went back to the sheriff's CL person and gave her the information.... she gave me steps to take, so that I would not appear to be threatening her at kid exchange... basically to cover my arse... and they also suggested that I ask for an undercover/unmarked cop to be sitting in a car during kid exchange.... she actually set up the first couple for me.  

I tell you someone is definately looking out for me... my nosy neighbor's house sits on the corner of the only entrance and exit of our subdivision... he sends me a message when he sees her pull in.  A city cop lives 2 doors away... as well as a couple of Sheriff's deputies live in the neighborhood. The city cop noticed her driving by... and noticed him dropping kids off in the same vehicle.  He asked me if I knew that she was driving by... truthfully, I knew she drove by a few times... but not to the extent he was talking about... his reaction was to tell me.. it is a public street, she hasn't threatened me... so I can't get a restraining order... but If I ever need help to call him.  I have his cell phone.

It is stupid, vindictive stuff that they pull, mostly on my kids... but there was a time when it was all directed at me.  Now I just want them gone... not dead.. just far away from me and my kids.

The biggest angst I have in all of this is my kids... how do you raise emotional healthy kids when you share them with nutcases like this?

At this point, they moved here.. and mostly everyone knows they are crazy.  The joys of living in a small community.

[Julia]

All of this is so similar, it is uncanny.

My NH was fired for sexual harassment at work, and I only learned of it after he left me and I found the paperwork. In his case it wasn't really "sexual" in that he didn't touch anyone. He was refusing to follow directions, cursing at, and trying to undermine his female boss. So they called it sexual because it was between a man and woman and he was being very condescending. So, now he can't ever work for one of only three major medical institutions in our city. I was very supportive before, during, and after believing his story that HE was the victim and that SHE had it in for him. But when I tried to give him advice..."Honey, I don't think you should drop the F-bomb on your boss...." he acted as if I was the unreasonable one.


NH's loss of his job was definitely the beginning of the end. NH pegs it a little later. I have found writings of his reflecting back on this time.... and he says the downward slide started when he heard of a position opening up in his small hometown two hours away from our city. He immediately felt that this was providential, and that they would fall at his feet (he is quite experienced). He fantasized about moving into his parent's big house (moving them into a nursing home and beating out his siblings' dream of doing the same thing). He interviewed and waited for the call..... for weeks, (!)... and then called to find out he wasn't being considered for a second interview. He never told me about the interview, you would think moving would be something to ask your wife about, right?


Here is NH's own words reflecting back on this time:

"The house of cards collapsed with sudden swiftness.  The utter irrationality of my fantasy was revealed.  How could I even have imagined that I could live in that house?  I was basically inept as a doctor, and could never get a job in that town, in any field.  Being fired was a stain, a scarlet letter that would haunt me all my days.  I was completely boring and inadequate, and would wilt and wither under the constant stress of comparison with my brother and his exciting life.  My wife was incompetent, incapable of creating the kind of life that I expected.  My kids were only average, and a source of constant disappointment.  Perhaps most importantly, I had no option, no out.


OK, so that is how the world looks like to a Depressive N. Gads, you would think we are all total losers.

Here is the real truth.... The job he lost was part time (40%), and he had severance pay. Within six months he was hired full time at his other job, a teaching hospital, and by luck (and reputation), was given a 40K promotion and transferred to the oncology unit working under Lance Armstrong's doctor. He had 6 weeks of vacation scheduled for that summer, three wonderful girls, and a loving supportive wife who was not incompetent.

And it was all worth less than shite to NH. I know now from his journal that he was considering murdering me by early July: he took me up hiking, alone, by a rushing whitewater creek, and wrote later that he doesn't remember a word we talked about that entire day....

"What I do remember clearly, like it was yesterday, were my feelings on her birthday, two weeks later, as we went hiking in the Cascade Mountains, along perhaps the most beautiful river in the world.  I felt suicidal, thinking of throwing myself into the river, or if not that, throwing her into raging current instead."



I DID feel scared that summer, but I rationalized that I was scared for HIM, for his life. What BS.

Julia

[CZBZ]

Dear RB22,


Thank you for taking time to write out your story.  

One of my Aunts divorced her husband (he was diagnosed with BPD and AsPD) while he was openly living with another woman. My Aunt didn't have information about personality disorders and in fact, when she told me about his diagnosis, she didn't even know what it meant. What she did say in her own words that left an impression on my mind was this: she said, "Once your husband has found another woman who will VALIDATE his crap, he'll do things you'd never believe."

I didn't quite understand what she was saying though I certainly do now. The narcissist, who finds a borderline personality who will VALIDATE the hatred he feels for an X-wife, increases his arrogance and animosity.

Which you can see, made living with 'us' as non-borderlines, rather difficult. We didn't VALIDATE the narcissist's bad behavior which may also be why we are often accused of 'controlling them'.

I also wonder if the narcissist's new partner has a serious problem with female competition, almost what you'd call 'Misogyny'. What my imagination comes up with in my head is the behind-the-scenes manipulation she experiences with the narcissist who probably enjoys exacerbating her fear of abandonment. He is flaming the fires as fast as he can because gosh, it's just so fun watching her reactions. It's a thought...

It sounds like your X's new partner has some serious issues with herself and as we all know, a good narcissist can take down the most stable person in the world. Imagine what they can do to someone with a tenuous hold on reality???


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

Dear all,

I am leaving to visit my parents this week-end so please understand if I don't respond to everyone right away. Dad's satellite connection is 'iffy' most of the time and I may not be able to log-in until Monday. I am so very very appreciative of everyone's willingness to contribute to one another's understanding. We learn from each other and even though I'm so sorry each of you experienced similar circumstances, it's comforting to know I'm not alone. I find it hard to talk about my perceptions and my interpretations with people who can't identify with my story (or assume I'm merely making excuses or horror-of-horrors, pathologizing my x-husbaNd and not myself.   ) I never pretended to be perfect and I don't hear any of you saying that either. But what we witnessed was beyond the norm...it was completely counter to what we expected.

When a partner has a serious problem or makes mistakes or even has an addiction of some kind, we dig inside ourselves for understanding, compassion and the courage to support their attempts to restore their lives. What we expect to happen is that our strength will cushion their 'fall from grace'. That they will appreciate us the way we appreciate people who care about and Stick By Us.

That does not happen however. The narcissist starts falling inside him or herself and there's no bottom to the fall. Nothing catches them and stops the free-fall. That's how I'd describe it. Instead of grabbing our hand to save them from falling (picture an adventure movie in your mind), they try to pull us down with them. We eventually let go and it haunts us knowing we had to let go or be destroyed, too. Anyway, it haunted me for awhile. I've gotten used to the idea that saving myself was the 'right thing to do'. Am I writing about the Trauma Survivor's Guilt?? Maybe. ha!





"Lucky for him, he got OFF on a technicality - pure and utter luck!!! Saved his career, his face but decompensation began!  He could not help it...he deteriorated steadily, self-sabotaged, self-destruction, self-alienation, projected abandonment - he made it all happen...

...and now that the ultimate narcissistic injury is occuring - DIVORCE - complete dismantling of a safe and secure existence - it just remains to be seen what is next for the D-evil ... Decompensation (excellent concept!)" FreeGal


Dear FreeGal,

What did NOT happen that I expected to happen when my X got his hands slapped was a total and complete disregard for his 'good fortune'. Instead of increasing his appreciation and loyalty to a company that valued him enough to give him a second chance, he focused on how he was 'limited'. I thought and argued with him many times, that the fact that the company was bending over backwards to support him without penalty was VALIDATION of his worth and competence. he didn't see it that way. Oh, he'd listen to me tell him how great he was but he never actually believed it. He turned it around to say the company was only putting out a pittance to squeeze every ounce out of him that they could get. Bizarre...really bizarre to me and probably why he had to talk to Another Woman instead of his grateful wife.  

Those narcissistic defenses just could not keep up with midlife...a time when our pretenses are attacked because we're supposed to grow up and get over ourselves, don't you think??

You've caught on very quickly, FreeGal! Decompensation might only make sense to people who've witnessed the 'crumbling' narcissist.


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

"I was very supportive before, during, and after believing his story that HE was the victim and that SHE had it in for him. But when I tried to give him advice..."Honey, I don't think you should drop the F-bomb on your boss...." he acted as if I was the unreasonable one. " ~Julia

Thank you for saying that! I was dancing around the issue of misogyny for years without actually be able to 'name it'. Anytime I got close to his hatred for women, I'd be accused of 'feministing' the truth based on my biased perceptions. Then he'd say all the right  things he needed to say to convince me he loved women as equals and was highly supportive of their need to be in the workplace as peers.

And then, he got accused of sexual harassment???

It didn't make sense...I could remember numerous conversations about Feminist Theory (he was an intellectual guy) and couldn't quite put two and two together. My brain finally decided it was more comforting to believe those wicked women were making up stories. Now, I know better. He always portrayed himself as HER victim rather than examining his own behavior.

There are times my face turns red realizing what a naive woman I appeared to be at business dinners and conventions and anywhere I went as his stupid wife.  

Julia, your story is a classic example of the 'collapsible narcissist' who cannot sustain the narcissistic injury to his grandiosity. This is more like my story, too...the Covert Narcissist who becomes depressed and depleted, never learning what he needs to learn to change his behavior! Always externalizing fault and blame on others...the odd fact of their inability to "Introspect" and connect the dots between self-and-consequences.

Without being a fear-monger on this forum, I believe it's extremely important for people to understand the danger narcissists can be to their most 'intimate' family members. How many women have written similar stories to yours, Julia? I also sat on the edge of cliffs with my spouse while he was choosing between me and the other woman. I believe however, that the real threat to our lives happens long before we realize there's any problem at all. The withdrawal and secrecy some of us witnessed might have been a clue but who thinks a depressed partner would be dangerous?

My experience with depression (and this goes for family members, too) is that depression draws us inward, blaming ourselves instead of other people. When my spouse was obviously depressed, I based my support on what I knew about depression having no knowledge about pathological narcissism.

Also, one more thing while I'm typing as fast as I can,   is that for a long time, people said narcissists were NOT depressed. That they were overly optimistic to an unrealistic degree. Maybe that's true for Overt Narcissists.

I hope we get more reliable research about the covert narcissistic disorder. My sense is that covert narcissists become very depressed, even clinically depressed and that could be a highly dangerous situation for other people (and themselves). It's interesting to see how many midlife narcissists became depressed, fluctuating between overly optimistic attitudes and bouts of depression where life was worthless, meaningless and pointless.

We also used to be told that narcissists were not suicidal. That they loved themselves too much to end their lives. New research is proving this to be false, too.


Hugs,
CZ

[BlueSky]

Thanks CZ.  Hearing other's stories does help so much and the feedback is equally good.

I sat on the edge of a cliff during the 'you're a drain' episode.  I recall being so scared he was going to hurt himself or maybe even me.  It's a relief to know I am not alone - but also sad too.

ExN actually never told me anything bad, upsetting, disturbing, whatever, about work.  All he ever talked about was funny anecdotes, good things about himself and he, of course, tore down just about everyone else at work, including me.  It seemed there were only a handful of people he admired at work, all the rest were beneath him.  I only found out about the pressures and other stressful stuff from other people, and that was rare.  It could be that he didn't understand individuation and perhaps thought that I knew all the bad stuff he was holding in.

It's been interesting to think about how the bad reviews may have had something to do with his 'you're a drain' speech.  At the time, I really did take in the crap about myself and it took me awhile to shake it off and realize that he was wrong about me on many counts.  Also at the time, I attributed the breakdown to his being either very ambivalent about the idea of parenthood or perhaps even fearful. 

I was concerned that although we had been trying to conceive for nearly a year, and he had only mentioned a few times he was concerned about my ability to be a good mother and he had seemed 'on the same page' as I and excited by the idea of starting a family that he really wasn't happy about it deep down inside.  Gut instinct told me that and I think it was right.  It is likely that he didn't want kids and was feeling crappy because of the reviews - thus the breakdown.  I'll never know for sure, but it is easier for me now to say that I don't feel responsible for his breakdown anymore.  I definitely used to feel responsible.  Now I know that it was his responsibility to speak up and say, 'we need to have a talk about starting a family', amongst many other things.  During our marriage, we both avoided conflict and there was a lot that went unsaid.  He still expected me to be a mind-reader, though.   

Looking back, I can see that although exN was appearing to act fairly 'normal' after the 'you're a drain' incident, he seemed even more disconnected to me.  I started having nightmares where I found out I wasn't really married to him and I would wake up so distressed.

I had decided to talk to exN about not going ahead with starting a family when I found out I was pg.  He seemed excited and said the right things...but he didn't seem all that concerned that I ended up in a high-risk pregnancy and had to stop working full-time.  The disconnection grew worse.  By the time our son was born, he felt more like a friend to me than a husband.  It was during this time that he put on a lot of weight.  He didn't start trying to lose it until much later.  I don't know whether he had started intentionally working on getting new supply or not....he did seem overly interested in two different women at work and I know he wasn't all that invested in us anymore.  I found out years after the fact that someone at work had commented on the picture of our son he had, the person said something like it was so cool he had a family now and how great that was and exN said, "that's her thing, not mine."  He spent virtually no time with us.

ExN was cruising dating sites and he tried one evening to find out if his unrequited crush from high school was single or not (in front of me and many of his high school friends) before we got divorced.  It was interesting.  Once we were divorced and he started dating, I think he found it very hard.  He has a hard time socially.  He actually considered asking me to reconcile on two occasions - once after he'd been dating a few months and the other time after he got dumped by a gf of about two months.  Once he found his new wife, he never looked back - thank goodness!

I wonder now if I hadn't asked for a divorce if he would have once he found someone new.

Anyway, the questions about the type of person N's hook up with in midlife was interesting...  ExN's new wife comes across as a histrionic in her blog writings.  I don't really know her, so it is hard to know what she is really like.  My psychologist said, after reading some of the blog stuff, "this isn't normal".  She did seem to be incredibly insecure and, I think, concerned that I wanted to break them up and get him back.  So, maybe she has borderline traits.  Don't know.

Hope you have a good weekend, CZ!!  And hope everyone has a happy Easter.

[tango3]

I believe however, that the real threat to our lives happens long before we realize there's any problem at all.

Something that happened a few years before everything went wrong.  I woke up, out of a deep sleep, with N's hands around my throat.  (He was asleep - I think).  You cannot imagine (well if it happened to you, you can) what it is like to wake up because someone, the person you married, is trying to strangle you in your sleep.  I know I got up, I was now wide awake, what was I feeling?  I can't even put it into words, I know I cried.  I was frightened, shaken to my core.

The next day, I told him what had happened.  He totally denied that he had ever done anything like that, in fact, told me that I had imagined it.  Well no, you really DON'T imagine something like that.  He never, ever admitted any possibility that I was not making this up.

The funny thing is, for several years I had to sleep with splints (carpal tunnel).  They were very hard, plastic things.  I used to sleep with my hands tucked under my pillow so the chances of my accidentally hitting N when he was asleep were reduced.  I know one night I did accidentally catch him on the face, I woke up immediately knowing what I'd done, apologising profusely.  So how come you can attempt to strangle your wife in your sleep and not only not remember it, butthen deny it ever hapened?

[FreeGal]

I don't want to get off the decompensation topic because it's so interesting...but I just had to comment on your story tango 3 that a similar thing happened to me. 

I was sound asleep and was walloped on the head by N's arm - full force - he denied it forever ... and forever I feared sleeping beside him! Having gone to bed alone for the last 9 months has been one of the joys of abandoning the N!!!

FreeGal

[tango3]

Freegal - I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Interesting isn't it, how they totally deny ever doing anything?  I mean of someone accused me of trying to strangle them in their sleep, or bopping them over the head, I might indeed not remember but I would apologize profusely and be horrified at what I had inadvertantly done.  Not so an N.

I was dancing around the issue of misogyny for years

I long had the feeling that N really hated women (except for his mother and sister of course).  He pretty much works in a male dominated field but women have made small incursions and he was always very derogatory about any woman he had to deal with.  I sometimes said something to him about how it seemed he really didn't like women, he would, of course always deny it. 

As for the decompensation - yes all that - with me being the prime reason his life wasn't wonderful.  (Mine was????).  In his mind he blames me for everything that has gone wrong in his life, for all his missed opportunities.  I caught something he wrote to my daughter (she is leaving in a few weeks to go to vet school on St Kitts).  That he wished he'd had the opportunity to do what she was doing.  Well yes St Kitts is a very nice, picturesqe Carribbean island, but she's going to be working like a dog and racking up thousands in school loans.  She certainly isn't going to be lying on a sandy beach sipping martinis. 

I guess he forgot that he chose to quit school after one semester because according to him he was starving in the gutter.  He chose to go to work in the sheet metal industry (just like his father).  And he chose to work all those hours because all he wanted to do was make money.  Those were his choices and I'm guessing that I am now to blame for him making these choices (despite the fact that I didn't even know him at the time).

So reaching mid-life, instead of taking stock and being grateful for what he did have - two great children, a lovely house, lots of money, a fancy car, all the toys and gadgets anyone can want, a wife who stuck by him no matter what - none of that was good enough.

As for the woman he shacked up with.  I don't know too much about her, she's some sort of a nurse, is good friends with his sister and in fact looks just like his sister.   from what I can deduce she's never married or had children.  His family all thinks she is just wonderful so I take the view that she must be dysfunctional if his family likes her so much.  He left me in February by the end of March he'd moved into her shack and resumably started changing it all to suit himself and his image.  (He ordered $3,000 of fencing to fence in the shack and then got himself a dog).  Bought expensive BBQ's, ordered all sorts of paint.  Guess this was all ok with her, and I imagine that she will be a perfect supply for him.

[Crystalstream]

This was good information.  I think I caused the midlfe crisis, which is what I am working on, my part.  Here is this good standing successful man whose wife has been gone for the better part of three years and has caused some real financial havoc consistently since they have been married.  His friends and family think he is a fool.  He probably thinks he is too.  I dont think he has any other choice than to get rid of that which is causing the social stigma.  I wish I didnt have such a big part in this, but i do.  it is my journey to make sure I dont repeat the past.
I am not a total victim here.  I know that he did not treat me well.  I dont think he ever did.  I know that my way of dealing with him involved big spending, grandious ideas and a big shot mentality.  It also involved leaving to save what was left of me.

[honeybearII]

Jenny, another person cannot "cause" someone to have a midlife crisis in my opinion.  That is something going haywire in a person - issues they have never dealt with that suddenly they are confronting and do not have the skills to deal with in a positive manner.

Don't take on too much of the blame for these things.  I did that, over and over, and ended up detesting myself for small, really insignificant issues or things that life deals us.  Good marriages manage to work out these ups and downs because ultimately both people WANT the marriage to survive the slings and arrows life throws our way.
Honey

[Crystalstream]

Thank you for having my "back."  I really feel your presence.  Thank you Honey.

[tango3]

Jenny
As Honeybear said - you did NOT cause his midlife crisis!  You did NOT cause the way he abused you - this has nothing to do with you and everything to do with HIM.  He is fundametally flawed.  Not your fault, never will be your fault.  You did nothing wrong.

However, for a normal person, yes you do question what you did wrong - I'm sure in the initial stages - we all did.  All of us were willing to shoulder the blame for our marriages/relationships with an N.  After all they told us it was all "our" fault.  As you move through the process you will come to realise that there was nothing you could have done differently, nothing you could have said, no-one you could have been, it would have turned out the same.

As for feeling guilt because he financed your business ventures - well what is there to feel guilty about?  Seems to me the only thing he ever did was throw money at you.
My N was pretty much the same way, if they have the money, that is all they have to give you.  I would have been more than happy with one less crappy ring on my finger if I'd actually had a man that respected and loved me.