Anyone Overcome a N in the Office?
Originally posted July of 2007
From: trance_dancer (Original Message) Sent: 7/15/2007 1:02 PM I work with a woman who is obviously an N, and her behavior is escalating to the point where she is trying to get me fired.She feels extremely threatened by me and my qualifications and the fact I get along with everyone (including the janitor). I know this is the typical behavior of the workplace bully. I have checked oput Tim Field's website but there are no definative answers there. I'd like to order his book, but it's only offered at Amazon UK at ridiculous prices. Ugh!
It started with her trying to act the "queen bee" (entitlement issues), glaring, treating my clients badly, etc. I did'nt buy into it, and of course...that just threw gas on the fire. The next step was for her to call a meeting with my supervisor (who she claims to be "outside friends" with...I kinda doubt this) in order to intimidate me once again. The issue she brought up (invented) was that I was somehow intimidated by her and "out to get her" by disagreeing with some of her statements she made to some clients. She admitted to eavsdropping on my conversations in order to gather this supposed info. The reality was, it was a made up story. I was very cool and centered in this meeting and pointed out that there was no reason to argue over facts unless they were not true. I also pointed out some other items which made it plain that this was a case of "projection" since I make more money than she, have spent 25 yr. doing good work in my field, etc. My supervisor surprised me with her fairness and balanced attitude toward me during the meeting. I got a nice note from my boss thanking me for being cool and together. However, it's obvious that I REALLY inflamed the N, and she wasn't ready to let it go.
The most recent behavior is to dismantle my character ( yep...D&D). This is happening thru comment cards supposedly sent in by clients. They never have a name or date, and the comments are incredibly critical about me. They aren't real for sure. Guests (I work in a spa) that are genuinely upset about their service don't mind leaving their name and address. They often get complimentary spa treatments in exchange for their grief. Regardless, my supervisor ripped me up one side and down the other for this, real or not.
I've kinda gone into a PTSD reaction to this, but I do have some calm moments. I would like to figure out a way to fight off this witch (do they melt?) until I can line up a better position.
2 mo. ago I left a NP that I had been with for 5 yr. I am feeling a bit vulnerable especially finantially as I'm starting all over again. The only thing I can think to do is document the happenings as they come up and be open to suggestions. An attorney isn't in the budget just yet.
Has anyone successfully fended off the "office jerk" (as in the other thread) and preserved sanity and job? I understand from another colleague that she did this very thing at school and tried to get a student (her formar best friend, what a turd!) and teacher removed for disagreeing with her. I can't seem to help the fact that I refuse to jump through the hoops of the N. I don't play this game well at all. They repulse me so much I couldn't live with myself if I palyed the submissive part. They seem to bring out a part of myself I call "Avenging Angel". This has hurt me more than I can describe here, but I'm for the underdog and always will be, especially when it's me . Something in me wants to nail her to the wall. Got any suggestions? My friends say my willingness to protect myself and enter into conflict is a good sign of growth (mental health?). But it does have a high price!
What to do? You're d#amned if you do or don't. Ugh! What a mess!
Leaving the N trance (for good!)
From: CZBZ Sent: 7/15/2007 4:06 PM "My friends say my willingness to protect myself and enter into conflict is a good sign of growth..."
Being able to deal with conflict IS a good sign of growth, your friends are exactly right! Some of us didn't learn how to communicate our needs as children and we might be ineffective at confrontation because of our upbringing. If most families are like mine, confrontation was considered to be an 'aggressive' act, though withdrawing in silence or sweeping things under the rug was considered to be 'refined'. Unfortunately, there's nothing refined about dirty rugs and silently-seething people. At some point, the dust is gonna fly.
Since you already admitted that you'd like to Nail her to the Wall, at least you're making progress from not feeling anything or blaming yourself! Hey, use that anger to keep you fueled up for the long haul. Ns are relentless when they've found a good place to dump their self-hatred. Sounds like this woman is a piece of work, all right. If you've read Tim Field's website, he pulls no punches. Sometimes the best thing we can do for ourselves is LEAVE. It's not fair, nope it's not.
I mentioned on another thread that my sis had a female supervisor who picked her targets carefully and then methodically ruined their reputation with others. She did this just as you suggested on betty's thread about Male and Female Ns: gossip and backbiting. Seems to be the way women do things since overt aggression is not okay, for the most part. Before most women know what hit them, another woman has set our demise in motion, most likely finding vicarious joy in our "self" destruction. At least you realize what's happening, Dancer. Most of us don't before we've done damage to our own credibility!
My sis started documenting everything since I listen very well to what people tell me on message boards and I follow their advice. It's usually much better than a book since we are LIVING the story every day. Once she read through Tim Field's website about Corporate Bullies, she recorded every situation, every comment, anything anyone told her, even the comments she heard SuperwomaN say while walking down the hallway. Things like, 'I could KILL her with my bare hands!" Hummmm......nutcase for sure. But the documentation saved my sister's neck when the whole situation finally came to a head. Which it will. Corporate empathized with my sister's complaints but did not take action to protect her from SuperwomaN.
My sister found another job and left WITH her dossier signed, dated and sealed until further notice. ha! Guess what? She needed it only a few months later when the small office she'd left was in shambles. Seems that once my sister left, SuperwomaN rotated targets. That worked for awhile until she found a big important target. And this time, it was someone in headquarters who had never fully appreciated what my sister had been going through. Several months later, my sister was promoted to a high level job overseeing...you guessed it: SuperwomaN. The first time she flew back to California to review their files, she donned a bullet proof vest. ha...j'est kiddin' though she did say it's a good things looks can't kill.
Do keep track of everything. The experience my sister had, has reinforced the suggestion that validated documentation is the best thing we can do when one person's word is against another's. Document everything, even as big a pain in the arse as it may be. Include emails, too. At one point, the date of an email became my sister's only proof when it came to SuperwomaN's word against hers. Keep your folder to yourself and you may never need to use it. Even knowing it's there will give you courage to keep standing up for yourself.
Direct confrontation is sometimes encouraged but with Ns, they'll hate ya for it. I advised my sister to not say anything to fellow employes and avoid pitting them between her and SuperwomaN. Of course, SuperwomaN had already planted her nasty seeds in everyone's minds and was pulling out all the stops to discredit my sis. However, my sister took my advice (which I ought take for myself too, argh!) and just said "I do not have anything to say about #$%! or the situation." It was very hard for her to do and how she got through that year is beyond me. But she did it. Most everyone in the office kept their distance because they didn't want to 'choose' but in the end, they got their chance in the hotseat, too.
Love,
CZ
From: trance_dancer Sent: 7/15/2007 5:11 PM Thanks Cz. Whew! Blessings to your sis, I hope she found a healthier environment.
This N is a colleague, she was hired a few months after me. I have been in the spa biz over 20 yr. and she only has 5yr under her belt. She makes comments about my weight (I'm thin and tend to lose more weight when I'm stressed, she's not), how I dress, how thick my hair is (hers is falling out), you name it blah blah. While her statements almost sound like compliments, I have always felt uncomfortable when people say things like that. I can imagine she goes home and obsesses her arse off when she's not at work. She is always comparing herself with others.I prefer to stay out of the limelight, but I take pride in my work and do it well.
I know I'll probably be packin' my bag sometime soon. Since we're having a economic downturn in the area where I live, it's not so easy to find another position quickly. It may take 3-6 mo. My car needs some work too, I try not to drive too far. My XN did things to my car (insisted his best friend mechanic "fix" it) and did a number on my poor old 15 yr. old car. I need some N repellant. Does Raid work?
A good friend suggested I record my client appointments with a digital recorder. I think this is a good idea. The "comment" that got me into trouble with the boss was a supposed client complaining about me talking too much and being full of myself. Because I'm quiet and somewhat shy (I try not to discuss me...it's my clients time) I knew this was bogus. Also the fact it wasn't signed was a tip off. I had the feeling she wouldn't just go away after our meeting. My boss had to cut her off several times because she got totally out of hand, saying ridiculous things. But my boss and her sort of resonate on the same level in that they both like to micromanage the people around them. This girl "tells on" everyone in our dept. A perfect Nazi. The boss(not an N, but a very inscure and tactless woman) likes that in a person. And this girl likes to play on the boss's sympathy.
Years ago I had to leave a job because of something similar, so this strums the same chord again and a painful one. I didn't handle that situation well, and ended up hurting myself pretty bad by being impulsive. Since then I've done alot of healing work on myself. EFT and EMDR have been lifesavers along with good therapy. I am not the person I was back then. I have a new inclination to fight for myself, perhaps because growing up...no one ever stuck up for me. I also like to help others in this way. I think Ns in society are like living with the antichrist, they are a toxin and disease. I see them everywhere, especially in politics. I see the destruction they so casually create in others lives. I understand Mr. Field's motives in wanting to help others. I am one of those too. But I know I'll probably have to leave this job eventually. This organization has lots of other issues that make me think that's the best option. I have a few things going for me. People like me (clients and coworkers), and by now have got her number (she's also very histrionic) and has backstabbed several people there. She has another girl in her line of fire who also smelled a rat when she met her (this N ooozes "martyr"), and this girl is a friend. This N has a record of doing this to others at school and jobs (a trail of wreckage). The company would have found that out if they checked her ref's. All this gives me some confidence. I'm somewhat of a warrior, and refuse to eat her sh*t.
As we Native Americans say "hoka hey, it's a good day to die". That means I won't back down. I really can't and live with myself if I did.
So here's to documentation, a target's best friend. I don't mind if it'll save my heinie. Any other ideas would be appreciated. These peolpe are a toxin, and yes they make you very sick I'm ready for a detox.
From: CZBZ Sent: 7/15/2007 6:17 PM Dear Trance_Dancer,
Sometimes women who are a little more demure in how they relate with other people, are perceived to be 'controllable' by those who need control. I don't know much about your cultural heritage but in my family, it is really NOT cool to be loud, nor seek attention. I think sometimes, my natural demeanor might be attractive to controlling people such as Narcissists, though they do tend to get perturbed when I'm not so easily controlled as they thought. I wondered if you might have the same problem since you mentioned being 'quiet and somewhat shy'.
"I need some N repellant. Does Raid work?"
LOL!!! I've never tried it but maybe what we really need is Shark Repellent.
If you are competent in your field and she is anxious about not measuring up, she won't take too well with anyone outshining her, Trance. Narcissists hate those who are better at something than themselves and start using every tactic they can think of to 'level' their opponent. Perhaps this gives you some insight into why she would target you: your 'shy' demeanor and your 'competence' makes you the perfect place for her to use bully tactics to bolster her self-esteem. No doubt she's insecure and using typical psychological tactics to elevate herself. This doesn't mean you ought go about changing your basic personality though. I tried being a drill sergeant but it didn't last for very long. But I'm not naive anymore, so maybe that's what people like ourselves have to do. Stay gentle, 'shy', reserved but don't underestimate someone the first time they show their N-teeth. Don't wait til you see the whole smile 'cuz by then, we're close enough to bite.
Some people suggest direct confrontation but it's not always recommended. Especially if your co-worker has the boss's support.
If there is anyway for you to neutralize your reactions to her 'covert' comments (passive-aggressive, isn't she?), you'll be better able to think things through rationally. I know it steams you up to have her make snide remarks that she only THINKS you can't see through, but when we let people 'get to us', we do dumb things ourselves. Figure out a set phrase you can repeat like a mantra when she TRIES to get you to react. I had to do that with my X during the divorce and it helped me keep from reacting when he 'cut me down' with his comments. I can't even remember what all my well-practiced mantras were during his rages, but one of them was: "This too shall pass, you big stoopid ass."
It kinda helped.
Love,
CZBZ
From: trance_dancer Sent: 7/15/2007 6:27 PM "This too shall pass, you big stoopid ass." LMAO
I needed that. Soemtimes I freak out and go into PTSD mode. Humor helps.
From: trance_dancer Sent: 7/15/2007 7:04 PM I also forget how to spell...
From: Cornfield10 Sent: 7/16/2007 11:08 AM There is very good advice in this post, and very common problems that businesses don't always take time to address. Thanks for facing the problems.
Cornfield
From: honeybearII Sent: 7/16/2007 11:56 AM A number of years ago I was the executive director of an arts council group. The president of this group was a raging, unbelievably covert N. I didn't even know there WAS such a thing as narcissism back then but I DID know that he was a JERK (capitalized purposely!! LOL).
He tried to micromanage everything I did as executive director, and the stupid thing was that I was pretty much volunteering my time since this was a small group trying to make a "go" of it. My salary barely paid my gas, LOL. He would call every single day to find out what I had been doing and to "talk about daily scheduling". The climax came when I set up a meeting with a potential donor/volunteer and didn't "invite him to come along". Sheesh. He needed to be at every single lunch or meeting regardless of whether his presence was needed or appreciated.
Finally, when he blew up about it at a board meeting, I stood up and announced to the board, "Well, I'm resigning. Given that I could use my time in a much more personally fulfilling way and probably make some money doing so, I hope that you - Marco - enjoy doing the job of both president and executive director. I wish the Arts Commission all the best and all the luck in the world. You'll probably need it".
Then I simply picked up my things and left. Nicest feeling in the world to see Marco Del Grande (YUP!! His "real" name but I always knew he probably made it up! "Mark of the Great?" LOL, LOL, LOL!!!)
And guess what, folks? The whole thing fell apart in less than 6 months. Seems that I wasn't the only one with major issues with Marco and when I left the rats all left the ship and left it to sink with ol' Marco still convinced he was right!!
Sometimes, it takes one person to stand up to these Ns, and it gives strength and impetus to others to take a stand.
Honey
From: foofoogirliegirl007 Sent: 7/16/2007 12:26 PM Trance: sheesh, I know EXACTLY how you feel - I had the same situation myself. It was awful and horrible. Yes, she did try to get me fired. Until someone else was in her sights.
It was awful, awful, awful.
I never tried to "overcome" her - that is just simply not possible with an N.
I was so fearful - and then one day, I was like "try to get me fired! I've worked here for 20 years - you've been here two...just go for it". Now, I didn't try to bait her or anything. I did document. I tried to stay out of her way.
As I said before, it stopped when someone else got in her sites. It didn't help that my boss was absoutely no help. Personnel had to finally get involved (we had an investigation) regarding the other problems with her co-worker (she really has a problem with women)...and now Personnel knows she is a fruit loop.
May the force be with you.
From: CZBZ Sent: 7/16/2007 12:41 PM Yes, it was absolutely horrible for my sister who had anxiety so bad, she could barely stop shaking when she left for work. What was really horrible is how all the other people just 'watched' and 'kept their distance.' Nobody stood up for her because they feared their own jobs. They also feared being next in line. Some of them actually liked the woman who betrayed my sister and didn't want to choose. In the end, my sister almost had a nervous breakdown and the company is darn lucky she didn't file a lawsuit. She had been effectively isolated from her peers who were too afraid to take a stand. At least I was able to comfort my sis with the little bit of knowledge I had about Group Dynamics because everyone's reaction to her being abused could have been predicted by sociologists.
The isolation is the killler, really. The uncertainty, the doubt...when her best friends just looked at her in sympathy, they might as well have been throwing stones. In the end, everyone lost their jobs because after my sister left, the Grande Dame could not hold the office together. She was sent to another office requiring an hour's commute and reprimanded for the way she dressed (she was a bosom buddy, if you get my drift). Her salary was cut and she was required to handle more claims than ever before in the new company, after managing to destroy what my sister had managed to build.
True story. I've thought about writing it up as a case study because it's extremely interesting to see how each person reacted in her small office. I believe there were only twelve or so in the whole place. Once the Grande Dame saw that nobody would stand up to 'her', she escalated the abuse by telling them that if they so much as spoke a word to my sister, she would fire them. My sis worked there for another two months waiting for our house to sell so we could move. By the end, their shunning had almost destroyed her completely.
Love,
CZBZ
From: IA101 Sent: 7/17/2007 12:42 PM Yes, had a female N in the workplace and she darn near drove me 'round the bend! I can't emphasize how important it is to document, document, document. Keep CYA in mind at all times. Be very selective in what you say to her and about her to others. Things can be misconstued and repeated.
It is very important to neutralize your reactions. I gave no reaction at all and only confronted her once. It went whoosh over her head. I came here and had some royal vents, though. lol I feel for ya!
Thankfully, she drove the whole office nutzs, including the bosses so the petty whining and grandstanding didn't impress anyone. She did us all a huge favor when the "doctor said she needed time off due to stress at work." Whole 'nother story there, but that was an N lie.
Hang in there.
Love,
IA
From: NewTurtle4 Sent: 7/18/2007 2:09 AM A job came open in our county the lady had to leave because she had breast cancer so I went today and then I left a message for the assistant superintendent. She will be ebcak in thoffice today and I guess I will hear if I have it of not. I will have my own office and bathroom and shower. It is about fifteen minutes more of a drive but I couldn't stand the N I was working with. I had enough. When he kicked a crate backwards and the crate nearly hit a kid in the head that did it for me. Of course Loosey Goosey principal didn't see a thing. Now if I had of done it then she would have had my head! He lies and is so sneaky. And someone can walk up and say something to me and when they walk off he makes fun of the way I walk or something. The principal is an air head. I have had many run ins with her last year but she says nothin to him. She will tell me alie and then turn around and tell another lie to soemone else.She is crazy as hell. Our faculty just says what the hell?????I have been there 23 years and I never wanted to leave or teach middle school but with this I have to.
Turtle
From: IA101 Sent: 7/18/2007 10:36 AM (((Turtle)))
So sorry you have to leave a job you love so much due to an N. I understand 'cause I contemplated a job change too. They are dadgummed difficult to work with because they are downright mean and nasty creatures. They keep the chaos churning.
Knowing what they are is a double edged sword. On one hand, we can predict their behavior and understand why. On the other hand, they make us crazy 'cause we know they will never change and there is always someone else in the workplace that has fallen into the N trap and gives them another chance, sympathy, etc.
Here's hoping you get the new position, the transition will be smooth and the environment N free.
Loves & Hugs,
IA
From: NewTurtle4 Sent: 7/20/2007 12:04 AM Hey IA,
"Here's hoping you get the new position, the transition will be smooth and the environment N free." IA
Well, I got the job and then had to turn it down the next morning and I was so excited on my way home but it would mean me driving about 150 miles a day and I just can't afford it. But, I think I know how to handle her now and I heard a lot of people in the community was having a fit because I was leaving. So, it made me feel good to stay. The parents of the kids now I am teaching were my kids at one time and so if I need to speak to them about a problem they know I wouldn't have to talk to them if I didn't have to.I guess you could say I am teaching my grandkids. lol The job I have now is 50 miles closer so I just couldn't do it and if something happens and I have to get home then I can be here in 45 minutes. A big difference than a hour and a half but I really wanted to go. Bummer.
I talked to our Education rep and she wants something on this idiot, lol, she had to work for her. So everything I tell her she says I can believe it or she did that at our school too. So, I document daily and I will try my best to stay away from her as much as possible.
But thank you!
Hugs,
Turtle
From: IA101 Sent: 7/20/2007 10:05 AM Turtle,
Congratulations on two fronts! First for getting the job and again for being so loved and respected no one wanted you to leave your current position. I certainly understand not wanting such a long drive. Days are long enough already.
Good for you in speaking with the Ed Rep. Now someone is in your court...a member of the been there; done that club. You hang in there. Something will eventually bite the nasty N in the booty.
Hugs,
IA
From: CZBZ Sent: 7/20/2007 11:13 AM "...it stopped when someone else got in her sites. " ~FooFoo
Isn't that a horrid realization, Foo?!! Same thing with my sis. Once she was gone, another woman was targeted to receive the Nasty womaN's projections. The next-in-line eventually left the office and filed a stress claim naming the 'super-biptch' directly. And once she was gone...well, you know the drill.
Several of the women who remained silent while my sis was being shunned, have contacted my sis to apologize. They generally start out with 'I just didn't UNDERSTAND, but now I do!' Nobody intentionally tried to hurt my sis. But they could not see through the mud and were scared about losing their jobs. Welp...the whole place went up in smoke.
And THAT's how it is.
Love and horror (LOL),
CZ
From: CZBZ Sent: 7/20/2007 11:21 AM That must have been a hard decision to make, Turtle. It's wonderful you got the job 'cuz that's gotta feel good but like IA said, it's also validating that so many people were upset about you leaving your old job. People often think good thoughts about someone but don't always tell them so. It's important to validate other people but unfortunately, we don't always speak up until we have something nasty to say.
Maybe this is not a big deal to you, but the fact that you were able to think through the increased anxiety, stress, cost and vehicle wear-and-tear and be realistic about that rather than idealistic about the New Job, says a lot about your self-confidence. Anyway, that's what I see.
Love,
CZ
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