Pornography
Originally posted in January of 2006
From: CZBZ (Original Message) Sent: 1/13/2006 1:29 PM We've been working on link pages about sexual behavior some of us never wanted to know about...LOL...and have come up against the topic of pornography. Now porn is generally a heated topic with some people viewing it as a relatively harmless passtime and others on the opposite extreme viewing pornography as detrimental to mental health and solid relationships.
Do you have an opinion one way of the other or somewhere in between? We'd love to hear from you. (You've probably already noticed we didn't ask for input about BDSM, now did we? )
What IS porn? Is it harmless? Is it an entry point into more dangerous realms of sexual behavior? Is it beneficial? Does porn enhance sexual relations? Is it instructive?
hehehehe...who dares go first???
Loves,
CZBZ
From: mardaw Sent: 1/13/2006 3:00 PM Heheheheh...I will CZ,
I have wanted to discuss this topic for awhile..... PORNOGRAPHY.... is so "destructive" for "any" relationship. It reinforces seeing sex as non-relational and an act without emotion. It is destructive in that through repetition of viewing brings this thought process into a no thought behavioural way.
It becomes automatic in assessing sex as a seperate activity apart from an "intimate"... "emotional" act between 2 loving partners. Men being a "visual" being will "identify" the act in lue of the intimacy.
Think on this ...to "read" is a repetitious activity..without "thought" the brain processes the 'words" into "meaning"...The same principle for porn. Repetitive viewing becomes automatic interpretation of "thought"....The "male" especially will use this process in relating to his "wife" or "girlfriend" he can not help but do so.....It damages the relationship in the form of sexual intimacy...The only sexually intimate relationship you have is with your SO, H, BF,..... This is what sets your intimate "loving" relationships apart from everyone else you love intimately...the sex.
Yes, it is important to realise the "risk" of porn to your relationship. The male in your life that views porn is having sex with other women in his mind... And is this not where sex begins...?..In the "mind" of the one wanting to have sex..?.. I will never tolerate porn in my life..or want to be with a man who does... Not because I am "jealous" but because I value the "intimacy" between myself and my mate and want to "protect" that "intimacy" as it is a very important aspect of my loving relationship with him. I want to be "emotionally" intimate with my mate...not an object to be interchanged with the latest porn star he wanted to "screw"...yuck...
Just my 2 cents,
Marcia
From: mardaw Sent: 1/14/2006 3:39 PM Hi Group,
I thought this would be a good thread for discussion..?... Did no one else's N do the porn thingy..?...
Hugs
Marcia
From: CZBZ Sent: 1/14/2006 3:53 PM LOL, Marcia! I have a sneaky suspicion most Ns do the porn thing whether we were aware of it or not. But maybe on this site, there aren't very many defenders of Porn so the emotions don't run quite high enough to post. As much as we dislike 'triggering' threads, nothing seems to get us to write quite like being 'triggered.'
The X-husbaNd was not into the BDSM and seriously demented sort of porn; but once he had a huge ol' narcissistic injury at work, porn started showing up at home. Guess he didn't realize when I changed the sheets on the bed, that his magazines would come rolling out between the mattresses. Of course, I confronted him but being the 'nice wife', figured a few girlie magazines might actually perk him up a little. hahahahahaha...not really. So I started reading Andrea Dworkin which makes a hilarious Rockwell painting of two middle-aged people curled up in bed together. One of them reading Hustler and the other reading Feminist Manifestos. ROFL I still get a huge laugh out of it even ten years later.
I did not convince him and he did not convince me and now we can each live true to who we are at the very core of our being.
I've been on message boards that do not deal with NPD specifically, and the porn question is always hotly debated. Maybe most of us on a narcissist forum have 'felt' objectification to such an intimate degree that any allowance for pornography becomes unbearable. I dunno.
I figured what your reply would be, though. LOLLOLLOL! And I also figured you wouldn't be too intimidated to state your opinion. Good for you. Even if someone defends pornography, good for them. We need to at least think about the typical 'issues' a narcissist has before the Hustler magazines show up. (Cuz they generally do).
In my case, it was 'odd' my X-husbaNd was even attracted to porn since he wasn't exactly a Romeo in the bedroom, if you know what I mean. That's one of the reasons I pegged him for a cerebral narc a few years ago. By the time he started checking out women's bare boobs, I was almost hopeful. Guess I didn't realize the only boobs that didn't scare the livin' daylights out of him, were airbrushed and safely contained on glossy paper.
ROFL
Loves,
CZBZ
From: mardaw Sent: 1/14/2006 4:07 PM Oh, CZ,
You are to funny...him hustler...her feminist..magazines...lmao Yes, I guess no one wants to "defend" porn.. Or rather.... "How" can you defend porn..?.. I guess I just wanted to hear of other's experiences with this N porno thingy....
Ya, Know CZ, In my opinion porn makes a N "worse" if this is possible..?.. But of the women I know that have had Nzzz in their lives... The N used porn a little maybe at first, (that they knew of), and as time passed they used it more and more..... And became "worse" in their treatment of their wives G/F's as their porn use increased....
I really do think porn increases the "objectivity" a N already possess for women... I also believe the olde they get ...the more so pronounced is their NPD....
Hugs
Marcia
From: flower Sent: 1/14/2006 5:17 PM Allow me take a "crack" at this, LOL!
It has been 4 years plus since my N experience and I only associate with a certain maN just as colleagues in a workplace setting, so I am not personally triggered, though more upset about sites or magazines, which glorify violent and bizarre nude or semi-nude scenes.
The question arises, "What is pornography?" Is it photos of women and men nude?Hmmmm..Well, isn't the human body suppose to be beautiful and an art form? Haven't we gotten away from the days of being ashamed of our bodies? Is it pornography photos of intercourse? Well, those photos better be banned except for use by sex therapists.
Even the Supreme Court does not have a definition of pornography, rather than leaving it up to "community standards." And as one judge said, "I know pornography when I see it." I understand what he means, but what is offensive and considered pornographic to one person, isn't necessarily offensive to someone else. For example, if we were walking the streets in the MIddle East, we would be stoned or shot. How dare us show our head of hair or even lower legs!
I know pornography also when I see it. And I am not going to be gasping for air when I see breasts or penises, LOL. Nor am I going to be shocked when I see ones wearing bathing suits with hanging low cleverage, speedos with bulges or dangling testicles at the beach near where I live---thanks to the old Canadians who flock south. I'd rather tell'em to put some clothes back on: sexy at 60 is not the same as sexy at twentysomething.
So, what is exactly pornography?
Love, Flower
From: BtrflyFairy Sent: 1/14/2006 7:18 PM Excellent question flower....
Exactly what is pornography? Is it those dreaded magazines of naked men and women and if so, which ones? There are some that are tastefully done (just enough to spark the imagination) and then there are the ones that are more tacky that leave absolutely nothing to the imagination, lol. Is porography those dreaded movies and if so, which ones? The auto-erotic ones with a storyline, or the more deviant... man on woman on woman on man on anything with a pulse? lol. Can porn be beneficial to a marriage/relationship? Does it depend on what kind of porn it is? Is porn just the non-prescription form of viagra? And who here is capable of really making that distinction? Not me, lol.
Speaking in totally generalized terms I must say that men are "visual" creatures by nature. Women are emotional. (However, there are exceptions to both rules as we all know, especially where N's are concerned.) Do all men who look at porn objectify women? If the answer is yes, then don't all of those women out there reading their "harlequin romance" novels fall into the same category of objectifying men? Or are they exempt because there are no pictures? Again I'm not willing to make that distinction.
If a man OR woman relies wholely on pornography to sustain a relationship then obviously there is a problem. Is porn the problem or simply a symptom of bigger issues? Only the person affected and their partner can answer that honestly. What can be said is this... if one spouse is uncomfortable with porn and the other is unwilling to take their feelings into consideration then there is a respect issue.
Personally, I have nothing against a man looking at porn....within reason. What I would take exception to, is if the porn dominated his life with me. Having said that, there are some forms of pornography that are just completely deviant (usually geared towards the N's taste) that I find degrading, outright evil, and unacceptable. But, we all know that N's are all about pushing boundaries, right?
So, is this thread about the evils of porn in general or porn as it relates to N's? Anybody???
Some more food for thought... the "adult toy industry" caters more to women than men so, what's up with that???? lol. Just playing devils advocate here.
Take care and God bless.
Hugs,
Btrfly
From: Rox24201 Sent: 1/14/2006 7:32 PM I find that the problem for a true porn addict is more in the escalation of material necessary to get the same thrill, much like heroin.
I truly don't see a problem with teen boys hiding magazines and perhaps even throughout the years with the "emotionallly heathy" men. Sorry, I know very few (I know of one) women who view porn for anything other than curiousity.
I remember my first apartment (early 80's) where my boyfriend and I were entering the steps to the basement. There was a freaking (I kid you not) spec of a corner of paper sticking out from the above stairwell between wood. My bf smiled and said, "Hmm, what is this.. I was a young boy once too." He pulled on the corner of paper and out came a centerfold. Bf told me that that's what young boys do to hide it from their mom's. I laugh about that incident to this day.
Hell, for a man, why not fantasize? A magazine, a little hand lotion and voila! You're not out there being an donkeybutt to get tail. In fact, a person like that can be a pretty decent guy.
Marcia, I understand what you are saying, although, I have been guilty myself of having to think of a sexy scene or someone else with my loved one to get off (this is in the past for sure, LOL, sex?). I mentioned this to someone else before and he told me that is TOTALLY WRONG thinking. What I find so humorous about his comment is that he is such a cheating sack of cr*p, LOL! I mean I don't believe the guy has been loyal to anyone for over a week at a time. WTF?
Now the Internet... WHOA! I think it's interesting to see how frightened people are now of even checking sites out due to so many variables: Computer history, cookies, viruses and possible surveilance. Just a few years ago it was a completely different animal, tongue in cheek, LOL.
xN had an addiction to computer porn. We had an unbelievable sex life until I lived under his roof. He even said that those girls do not talk back. When I checked his computer history, he had thousands of hours racked up on the crazycarry site. It's changed names, but if anyone cares, it's still out there and they have thousands upon thousands of members. Crazy carry means holding up a passed out looking woman. It is so innocent looking when you first browse because they are mostly clothed, but then you start thinking about the sh*t going on in these freaky people's heads about the control, BS... I feel really sick now. I mean really, really sick. It makes me cry when I think about how sick this person is who I slept with and thanked God for to have in my life.
I just want to add that when I was young and saw nude photos or videos, I couldn't stop thinking about the actresses. I would feel terrible for them and their brothers, sisters, OMG, most of all, the parents. I never could understand the people that couldn't think past the video or picture itself.
Soft porn can be good for the innocent and really horribly bad for the evil. For the evil, soft porn is like taking their first pill.
Love,
Rox
From: mardaw Sent: 1/15/2006 11:26 PM Dear Flower,
Thought we could discuss this one..?.. Here is my take on what is "porn"....
If it ain't in an art gallery it isn't.... "art".....If it is not in a magazine about art ..it is not "art"... And if the human body is so artful...why does anyone wear clothes..?..I can not agree with the head to toe garp...the idiots....But I guess I do not need the supreme court to decide what is pornographic for me as I would hope they have better things to ..umm..do. Common sense tells one what is pornographic..Plain ole common sense.
I know when I see Hustler, and other "material" in a paper cover with the heading at the top..It is porn.... I know when I see websites titled C*m S*ots it will be porn....I know when I see DVD and the "display" on the front is a buxom blonde, brunette, redhead, etc...It will be porn.
Anything that emphasizes the "carnal" lustful act of "sexual" relations is "porn"....It is a lack of "emotional" intimacy that I can not agree with....I think in today's world especially with all the Nzzz the last thing we need is to be "accepting" of the lack of emotional intimacy in "every" relationship we have....especially the one's with our mates
What cha think Flower...?... or
Hugs
Marcia
From: mardaw Sent: 1/15/2006 11:58 PM Hi Butterfly,
Well, I thought about a specific part of your post and thought it was a good topic to discuss... You said....
Speaking in totally generalized terms I must say that men are "visual" creatures by nature. Women are emotional. (However, there are exceptions to both rules as we all know, especially where N's are concerned.) Do all men who look at porn objectify women? If the answer is yes, then don't all of those women out there reading their "harlequin romance" novels fall into the same category of objectifying men? Or are they exempt because there are no pictures? Again I'm not willing to make that distinction.
Well, I would ask "why" are the women reading Harequin Romance novels...?... Are they lonely..Are they missing romance in their "relationships"..?.. Do they have "romance" and intimacy with their own partner..?.. Hmmm...My guess is the answer to all of those questions is .... Women connect with the "emotions" of "love" and the intimacy of someone that loves them, and if they are not being "emotionally" loved they create this in their "fantasy" ..... I imagine if their partner "romanced" them and wanted "emotional" as well as physical intimacy with their wives G/F that the women would not be interested in "reading" about it and love the living out of it...?... What woman does not love to be "romanced by the man she loves....?....None that I know of...
On the other hand......
Are men who look at porn wanting to be emotionally intimate...?...Are they missing intimacy in their lives..?.. Do they have emotional intimacy with their mate or partner..?... And are they accomplishing this with their "fantasy" in porn...?...Men maybe "visual" but this is to enhance the "emotional" experience by the pleasure of the visual experience...
Did you know that a mans mind takes "snap" shots at the point of climax and when he sees the image again it causes arousal..?.. Did you know that one guy masterbated to a pair of women's shoe's in his "adolescence" and now has to have any woman he is with sexually to wear shoes to bed to be able to perform...?...Also he has a "collection" of women's shoes he masterbates to.... All true Ladies... So yes, Men are visual..and yes, whatever they SEE during climax is what they relate to as "love"...Why do you think so many men have fetishes..?...
So yes..Without the emotional attachment..Sex is "objectified"....
I do not think sex should be misused. It has a purpose of bringing pleasure, joy and fufillment to the 2 partners...And it does this by creating "emotional" intimacy between the 2...Men have been "mislead" by porn for years... They do not realize it actually takes the "pleasure" out of their relationships with women....
Hugs
Marcia
P.S...The info on the snap shot at climax was a documentary I saw on sexual fetishes..I could tell you "lots" more..but..YUCK
From: mardaw Sent: 1/16/2006 12:06 AM Hi ROX,
I hope you are feeling better Sweetie...I wanted to address one thing in your post and ask you some questions...You said...
Marcia, I understand what you are saying, although, I have been guilty myself of having to think of a sexy scene or someone else with my loved one to get off (this is in the past for sure, LOL, sex?). I mentioned this to someone else before and he told me that is TOTALLY WRONG thinking. What I find so humorous about his comment is that he is such a cheating sack of cr*p, LOL! I mean I don't believe the guy has been loyal to anyone for over a week at a time. WTF?
Rox, were you emotionally and intimately close to the guy that you had sex with ...and "visualized" some sexy scene to enjoy the sex with him..?.. Usually when a woman does this she is not "with" her partner. She is not emotionally connected nor does she feel close to him. Was this a serious relationship..?.. And if so ...what happened..?..
Love ya ROX,
Marcia
From: Bookshopgirl1 Sent: 1/16/2006 10:09 AM This is a great thread! My psychoN was not into porn in magazines, movies, or whatever...he just went after the strippers themselves. <sigh> He was horrid!
I went through a seminar at the U of Minnesota on the subject of porn. I learned several things.
It is BIG business.
It is not a victimless habit, hobby, business.
It damages not only the people who are in it, but the people who view it.
Several studies have been done about the brain reaction during exposure to porn and have shown huge amounts to activity initially that wanes unless the exposure is increased or changed to be more exciting/kinky and deviant. It replicates a junkie who's body is adapting to the drug heroin. It keeps taking more and more to get the high!
Also, while there are some people who make a ton of money in adult movies about 80% of the people in the industry are victims to are trying to get money to feed a habit, runaways, underage girls/boys with emotional problems stemming from abuse and other tragedies. Often you clearly see how underweight and unhealthy they are and can see the bruises where they have suffered at the hand of others. It is easy to see the pain in their eyes for a lot of the acts they perform. Be real- do pretty young girls usually WANT to have sex with old, paunchy, balding perverts with tiny half-flaccid erections while being spanked? I don't think I ever thought yippee to that thought when I was 16.
There were many present who had done porn talking about how and why it had happened and the effect it had on their lives. The stories sickened me. They let it be known there was not limitless film available where you could just sit there 'doing it' and climax when it happens. Women were expected to some quickly and men had to be able to hold off and then do it when directed so that the next sequence could be shot. It is acting!. Abuse was the most common denominator with very few women that had inflicted the abuse as opposed to men. It is a business that people are rarely in(acting) for longer than 5 years without catching something(disease) or being forced to move on to harsher, cruder acts. There were medical aspects to it that I, as a medical transcriptionist were horrified to learn. People who do repeated anal scenes lose control of their bowel muscles and seek out surgery to fix their problems- often without sucess and having to wear a diaper the rest of their lives since they lose the ability to hold back feces and often suffer some horrific bowel infections, ruptures and tearing from enemas administered improperly. And that is just a small hint at the horror. You could fill volumes! I felt as though we barely scratched the surface with the seminar. I left each day feeling humble and thankful for the friends and family I have. I have never looked at advertising the same way since learning the sublties used to promote sex to sell things that is pornographic and sometimes just vulgar.
Helloo is anyone else a little tired of Victoria's Secret???not so secret, huh?
We also learned how subjective porn is. One man's porn is another man's deviance or someone else's religion. I have friends who enjoy it with their spouses and others who will never go near it. There IS porn out there that is more kind and that objectifies women less and where the scenes are more tender and full of sharing instead of a hammering of body parts set to really bbaaaaddd music. Porn has been romanticized and if you ask men what they think of how much this girl or that is enjoying herself they will all generally tell you she is having a great time or she would not do it and therefore porn is ok. Of course anyone who has successfully faked an orgasm knows that there is no way all these women are climaxing on command for the camera. Desperate people do desperate things to make rent or get high.
Porn is becoming more pervasive and accepted on cable and movies. The more we look away and allow it the more we are hurting our sons and daughters. I feel our society is rapidly becoming numb! When someone needs a movie or photo to feel somethig that nature designed to happen on its own we are losing ourselves. I am afraid of where it will be when it stops...can it stop? <shudder> I am just glad I will not be around in 100 years to see.
Bookshopgirl
From: BtrflyFairy Sent: 1/16/2006 10:16 AM Hi Marcia,
First off, great rebuttal! Have you ever read some of those harlequin romance novels? Quite a few (not all) are nothing more than porn without the pictures. lol. What those few offer, is a complete description in detail about sex acts, frequently not involving "intimacy" or "emotional love." It is purely fantasy driven and usually involves lusting after unavailable lovers. Seemingly, those few also tend to be the most popular among the ladies, lol. So, who is to say?
Sadly, society (in the not so recent past) has made the discussion of these very topics taboo for women as well as some men. Only recently have women been prodded to tell, show, and explain to their partners what makes them feel good. Unfortunately, this was not always the case. Pornography capitalized on that fact. Men not knowing the hows of great sex with their partners turned to porn as a "how to" guide as well as for their own needs. I'm not saying this was correct, it just happened to be the way it was. Add to that, the "religious" community's involvement with messages that the actual "sex act" was for procreation purposes only, and there you have it. Making an already difficult situation worse. Time eventually diminished these messages as we can all attest to.
Now, we live in a newer society and the message is quite different... "if it feels good, do it!" I don't adhere to that way of thinking but, I know it exists. As with everything else in life, the porn industry continues to push the envelope with the advent of newer technology, (internet, DVD's, etc...) Both sexes fall prey to that way of thinking though and so I can't condemn one without the other.
You asked...
Did you know that one guy masterbated to a pair of women's shoe's in his "adolescence" and now has to have any woman he is with sexually to wear shoes to bed to be able to perform...?
While I understand the reference you're making, I have to ask.... does that mean womens's shoes are a source of evil in society? lol. (rhetorical question.) I guess what I'm trying to say is.... masturbation and porn do not necessarily go hand in hand. (pardon the play on words, lol.) Maybe a man's intimacy issues go deeper than the topic of porn. Men are raised to be strong, emotionally distant, protective, etc.... Women are raised to be nurturing, soft, emotional, etc... I believe this plays an integral and often overlooked role in how men perceive "intimacy." So, having said that.......
Does "porn" create deviant behavior in men or women? Or does it bring out an already existent deviancy in a person predisposed to it? This is where mental disorders come into play. (And why this thread came to be.) Do ALL persons who look at porn become addicted? Do they ALL end up with fetishes? Do they ALL end up preferring "porn" to a more satisfying "intimate" sex life? The answer is No. So, why is it more prevelent in some and not others? I'm not sure any of us will ever know the answer to that. Because of this, I refuse to lump ALL people or ALL porn into one category.
Bottom line.... "porn" presents a problem when it comes between two partners, period. Maybe it should be discussed within this forum as a symptom, not the main issue.
I love playing devils advocate, lol.
Take care and God bless.
Hugs,
Btrfly
From: flower Sent: 1/16/2006 12:17 PM Mardaw,
Exactly what you posted above.
Pornography reduces humans to body parts without any benefical meaning to such as intimacy.
Pornography is already being regulated much like alcohol or cigeretttes, but the envelope is already being pushed enough that to some extent that porno is being "normalized." Thank you to one of the members for that word.
The next venue is beyond normalization, rather than what I considered "depraved." This depravity deplicted in photos and on the web should be censored, But then again, who decides and how far will censorship go?
Hugs back
Flower
From: MBHoppy1 Sent: 1/16/2006 8:35 PM Pornography...tough topic....very controversial and emotional.
I am not a fan personally, but it does seem nearly universal as at least some part of a male's lifetime. Even my dad...who is one of the best men I have ever known...had Playboy magazines when I was a kid.
I have to go with the middle road on this subject. If viewing porn is not interfering with a person's real life relationships...it is a private matter and not a cause for concern. It is alsways a private matter, of course, unless there are children or animals or other innocents involved.
Let's face it...we would not have models and movies stars and Harliquin romances if people did not like to have their imaginations tweaked a little bit.
JMO
MB
From: obstical Sent: 1/16/2006 10:58 PM Hi C, Great Topic!!
My N had a few dusty magz and videos at home I thought it was harmless. I did catch him a number of times when we lived above one of the businesses down in the basement obviously accessing sexual sites. He would always turn off the computer as soon as I went down there. I remember feeling angry mostly because at that particular time I wanted to get pregnant and my usually sexually demanding NH had suddenly withdrawn sexually from me. I was in baby making mode and he was nowhere to be found. This is the only time I can remember him withholding sex in 14 years. I remember being angry saying here I am upstairs wanting sex wanting to have another baby and you leave me cold saying your tired and then I find you down here doing this. It was obvious he had been masterbating.
For the most part I thought he did it rarely and didn't have much problem with it. After we seperated I discovered first a box of the magz and then a box of videos hidden in my home I was disgusted and a bit confused when he ever had the time to look at them? I went to his office and dumped in disgust there.
After I had moved...I discovered thousands and thousands of links to the stuff on his business computers and actually through the use of special software he had accessed the stuff on my computer and laptops as well this was discovered when I tried to clean my system after I discovered he was spying. Basically he was into PORN bigtime. I don't know if that is what sucked him in but he began to engage in business activities through this and he was completely desensitized to child pornography as well.
I've heard that many sexual preditors somantics are that aren't they are very drawn into internet porn. I believe you are right most N's are into it. I think my EX was more paranoid than most because he was actively involved in illicit activities and didn't just use it for entertainment. I had thought using porn once and a while was a normal thing...this is something I should have really looked into further. I wouldn't be tolerant of it in any future relationships.
I friend of mine said once that there isn't much of a stretch from someone watching child porn, actually contacting people that solicit sex with children. Once the person does this they realise that the punishment for getting caught 20 odd years in prison is the same as for murdering in most states so killing then appears to be a very do able thing in order to prevent that. That that is how people justify killing these children later.
The friend that told me this works in the prison system said that this is how convicts think. He gave me another example that he has seen a lot of ...a married successful business man forms an addiction to drugs or alcohol. Eventually steals to cover the habit. Caught or not caught they eventually lose their jobs and famlies over the addictions particular when it is with drugs. THe man is then homeless, and begins living off welfare or unemployement blames everyone else for his drop in status his exwife or girlfriend for not allowing him to see the kids truely believes everyone else has what he deserves. In a matter of a year this person can be found at a shelter selling a dirty needle filled with chemicals to a kid for 20 dollars. He finds the used needle in trashcans but 'deserves' the 20 dollars and has absolutely no empathy for the kid he sells to knowing at the very least he's probably giviing the kid hepititus.
My friend has worked in shelters and prisons for a long time and says this fall into doing anything can be quite quick. Basically with these anoalogies I'm trying to say...that pornography is a huge and profitable business. For an N with no boundries that objectifies people any way the step from one limit to another limit becomes an easily justifiable risk.
I saw a TV show awhile back it may have been the MONTEL show can't remember LOL but this woman innocently while looking for birthday pics of her kids came upon some naked pictures of her kids on the computer. Her husband explained to her that he didn't harm them in any way that they were asleep when he took the pictures and he needed the money badly to avoid bankruptsy. She accepted this..not imagining that her husband would actually ever hurt her children. He promised to never ever do it againsaid he was under so much pressure that he didn't realise what he was doing and of course the kids were not harmed.
A few months later she came hometo find lots and lots of police vehicles at her home. Her husband was arrested and later convicted of dealing with child porn. HE had been involved for awhile and in a big way I don't think additional evidence of him using his own kids was found...this wasn't detailed in the interview. The topic of the show was secret lives of husbands something like that. SHe explained that she felt that he was innocently sucked into it and had never ever harmed a child or his own children..WHat ever he DID do he was imprisoned for 20 + years. The children were taken away from the woman. The weird thing was she was waiting for him...she put all the blame on porn and the inticement that her husband was basically a good man she was a good mother and she should have her children.
I found it odd that this woman who had lost everything went so readily along with the idea that porno viewing was natural that the step from that to dealing it a simple mistake and using your own children as long as they were not hurt in any way a bad thing but not a terrible thing. The thing this woman didn't get...was what the hell was the next step?
From: mardaw Sent: 1/17/2006 11:37 AM Dear Btrfly,
You said the following........
While I understand the reference you're making, I have to ask.... does that mean womens's shoes are a source of evil in society? lol. (rhetorical question.) I guess what I'm trying to say is.... masturbation and porn do not necessarily go hand in hand. (pardon the play on words, lol.) Maybe a man's intimacy issues go deeper than the topic of porn. Men are raised to be strong, emotionally distant, protective, etc.... Women are raised to be nurturing, soft, emotional, etc... I believe this plays an integral and often overlooked role in how men perceive "intimacy." So, having said that.......
I agree not ALL who are exposed to porn become addicted or perverse in that exposure. My point is the use of porn reinforces the tendency to "objectify" the act of "intimate" relations with a lover. The whole purpose of the sex act in my opinion is to be intimate in a way that I am not intimate with any other relationship in my life...The act itself seperates the relationship and feeling's I have for my lover from all other's. The bible if read correctly even states this as a way of a "intimate" relationship and encourages this in the "marital" relationship between a man and woman. Men who were of the "cloth" turned the "act" into a "embarresment" because of their own phobias about it. They now try to "inforce" public acceptance from women to "accept" their perversion's of the sexual act. They try to "gain" sympathy for their perversions by saying "we are "visual" creatures and deserve to look and lust as this "benefits" you women by "freeing" you to be the objects of our desires"......umm hummm...... I do not buy this at all. I do not care if I am NOT considered "cool" by accepting perversions as a "healthy" life style for "all"..... I do not care if men or women think I am a prude for not going along with "mans" manipulations of my female form.....I refuse to be objectified for anyone. And my mind id "healthy" enough to withstand "politically" correct "norms" of "acceptence" and being "cool" to go along with the pervesion of sex.... My personal opinion...This will be the most "intimate" I will be with another being... I want the closeness to be "shared" between the 2 of us...if not...I want nothing to do with it at all...
Hugs
Marcia
