HELP NEEDED PLEASE

[Angel.rose]

Hi,I am feeling very confused and unsure that to do right now..

My Mother is an N and for the last five years I've had no contact with her,which has not been a problem as we don't even live in the same country!
I will never forgive and forget what she has put me through and don't see any reason why i should either.
The problem is my dad who I do love and care about. When I moved country he made it very clear that he would not visit me unless my mother was invited as well..as far as I was concerned at the time I had given him the choice of staying in contact with me and he had refused..therefore it was not my fault so why should I feel guilty about it?
As time has gone by however,my partner{who I must stress has only my best interest at heart}has mentioned to me that my dads getting on in age and as I don't know how much longer he is going to be around,that maybe it's time to let bygones be bygones and invite them both over for a visit..a few friends have agreed with my partner..
So,what did I do but invite them over,..they are thinking of coming out this summer...But instead of feeling happy about this my emotions are all over the place.I feel that yet again I'm being the one to sacrifice myself in order to make others feel good..I would really appreciate hearing everyones feedback on this as I'm so confused and don't know what to do..sure I would feel bad if my dad died..but is it really going to be any better for me if I invite them out here?especially if my mums as nasty and mean as I remember?.. I should point out as well that my partner has lost both his parents so I know he is just thinking of me..but his were good parents..my mother was NOT and although I love my dad he is weak where she is concerned and see's no wrong in her at all..

Please help
Angel

[CZBZ]

Dear Angel.rose,


Such a tough situation to be in! You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, choosing between two bad choices wondering which one will do the least harm for everyone concerned.

You've had five years away from your mother, which probably allows you to see how cruel or mean she has been to you. Once we build new relationships with people who are not abusive, the narcissistic relationship becomes painfully obvious. Too obvious to deny, rationalize or pretend that it was anything other than abusive.

The good thing about having five years No contact is that you are no longer in the same place you were the last time you spoke to your mother. You've steeled your nerves, so to speak, maybe gained a truer perspective of your qualities and worth without the constant criticism narcissistic mothers project on their daughters. You may not have noticed how much you've changed the past five years, but you have. Her ability to shame you into feeling inferior has been lessened and she won't be able to use her old tricks to make you feel bad so she feels superior.

For one thing, you understand the narcissist's manipulative character and how narcissistic mothers destroy their children's self-confidence. Even though we haven't dialogged on WoN, you've probably got a good-enough understanding of pathological narcissism to avoid taking her behavior personally. At least now, you know it's HER, not YOU. That's a huge change and a huge advantage we didn't have as children! So something has changed the past five years and that's your awareness---which will definitely reduce your anxiety and confusion in the event she has NOT changed (which she probably hasn't!)

One great thing you're doing that shows strength is that you're REALISTIC. You aren't pretending to yourself that your mother will finally treat you with the respect and dignity she didn't show before. You aren't ignoring the frustrating experiences you'll have, nor how she'll make you feel. You're being honest with yourself and asking for help which IS a sign of your strength, not weakness.

There are quite a few things we can do, though. Like planning activities that keep people busy rather than sitting around talking and talking and talking some more. Arrange daily outings and keep other people around so she's less likely to attack you as she may do in private.

You can also erect visual boundaries around yourself---like the Wall of Pleasant. Imagine a great wall separating you and your mother and this wall is always 'nice' and always 'pleasant' and keeps her slings and arrows bouncing back to herself. Don't let any of her arrows slide through your 'wall of pleasant' because narcissists are keen on making someone REACT. If she says something nasty, smile pleasantly and let her nastiness bounce off the wall.

You can also picture yourself in a rubber suit. Whenever she says something insulting, it bounces right off like pebbles on rubber. You just let her insults fall to the floor without reacting or throwing them back. I have a nice stockpile of rubber suits in all sizes and colors, perfect for any occasion. When the narcissist's artillary falls to the floor, they eventually tire of the game and give up. The point is getting YOU, the target, to REACT. So don't react.

It might also help to remember specific incidents with your mother so you are prepared for what she might do (whatever she did in the past is the best predictor of what she'll do in the present.) If you are prepared with answers, replies, ways to divert the conversation, you'll feel safer in your own skin. You can do this either by writing about your past with your mother on a message board or in a private journal. The point is to prepare yourself with ways to avoid being caught off-guard, not knowing what to say or how to handle the situation.

I would probably do what your partner has encouraged you to do by asking your parents to visit before your father has passed away. You are respecting your relationship with HIM and his with YOU by opening your home to them. As long as you are clear about WHY you have extended an invitation to them, you won't be as easily sidetracked by your mother's behavior. We have to live with ourselves and the last words we had with people we know will pass on one day. This really may be a very good decision if you have your partner's support.

I know you're anxious about seeing your mother but you can lessen your anxiety by thinking through potential scenarios and figuring out a way (in advance) to deal with those scenarios. If you'd like help from board members who might be able to come up with alternatives for dealing with the stress, please ask. We're here to help people cope with narcissistic relationships that are not easily ended with a No Contact ultimatum.

Hugs,
CZ

[Litha]

I think CZBZ and SEFG have given some great advice, so I will echo it. The three most important things are boundaries, boundaries, and boundaries. This is YOUR country, YOUR home, YOUR partner and friends. You get to make the rules. I think narcissists tend to behave themselves a bit better when they are not on their own turf, so this could work to your advantage.

A friend of mine who came from a dysfunctional family told me her strategy for hosting family gatherings. First, no alcohol, for her family everything got worse if alcohol was added to the mix. The other thing was she always invited at least one friend that no one had met before. With a new person around, her mother tended to put her best face forward to make a good impression. I tried this and found it very helpful in my own family as well. So plan on having your friends around -- maybe on rotation so there is always a new face.

Do you have a video camera? Consider using one often while they are visiting, I don't think narcissists like to be caught misbehaving on film. Or maybe you could use one of those hidden ones, so you know the conversation is being filmed while she does not. You can sit there cool as a cucumber while she rages, your mysterious smile will drive her crazy.

Or, you could  back out. If you are dealing with post-traumatic stress from this woman's abuse, there is no need for you to put yourself through the pain.

[Julia]

Angelrose,

I think you can do this. 1)You are older, wiser, and have had some time to heal 2) It will help BF understand.....everything, 3) with proper boundaries you may end up feeling stronger than before, 4) She will go back home and be far away again. 5) You get to see your Dad (bittersweet, though.....)

Seeing an N and expecting normal behavior is VERY upsetting. Seeing an N and expecting N behavior is unpleasant at best, but it doesn't have to knock you off your feet emotionally.

When I have to talk to my N, here is what I do: Mentally plug my nose, mentally hold the N at arms length, and then predict how he will react to the situations where we have to deal with each other. That way my feelings are basically "Yep, there he goes again"  instead of "Why is he doing this...?"

I really like the idea of having friends over, that will probably work. Is she the type to tell really judgmental horrible stories about your childhood to total strangers? (My Dad does this..) If so, you may want to warn the friends to be ready to give her a blank stare and then pointedly change the subject. Also, never, ever let her get you alone. Literally fake an urgent need to go to the bathroom, if necessary, if you suspect she will take a swipe at you in private.


Julia

[Angel.rose]

Hi all,
I would like to thank you all very much for your replies to me and all your suggestions,which did calm me down initially,although now I feel I'm starting to lose it,I guess it's even the IDEA of being in the same room with her which is triggering me so badly..

I just don't understand why I'm going off on one over this..boy do I ever know and understand narcissists..my mother was one,my second husband was most definitely the worst narcissist I've ever known..and my 17 yr old son is exactly as the saying goes..just like his father.

I know the theory..I know about boundaries..I know she will go home after a few days..and yet the very idea of all this is totally freaking me out..I also know that I can't back out of it now because my daughter has told me how excited my dad is to see me..and I can't hurt him by telling him I've changed my mind.

My partner and I are rowing about this constantly now {we never argue normally!}I suppose I'm blaming him for suggesting it all in the first place..I was beginning to feel really happy and settled here..life was going quite nicely for a change..and now this!arrrrgggghhh!

I know I need to calm down,but right now I wish I could just run off somewhere by myself and not have to deal with all this....

Hugs
Angelxxxx

[RB22]

I know I need to calm down,but right now I wish I could just run off somewhere by myself and not have to deal with all this...

I know this will not help your situation.... but I wanted to tell you when I get feeling like you are above.... I do run and hide and not deal with it... I have myself a long soak in the tub....for some reason my inner calm feels stronger AFTER that time soaking (and pruning).  A deep breath and I am ready to deal with the crazy people (as I call my family, including the N).

Keep us posted.... and Welcome.

Hugs,

RB

[Angel.rose]

Thankyou RB I might just go and have a long soak {and resist the temptation to drown myself whilst I'm at it LOL}
Hugs,
Angel

[RB22]

I have 4 kids.... they have never disturbed my tub time.... I won't let them...    It gives me a place to hide.... even when I have company.... I soak.   

It may give you a place to hide during the visit.... afterall  one can never be too clean..

More hugs,

RB

[LettingGo]

  AngelRose
Let me first state that I am NC w/ both of the Nparents and one NSibling (not originally my choice because she D&D us recently). At this point in my life I am so done w/dealing w/N's. They have stolen so much from me that I don't want them to steal a minute more of my happiness. I just don't have the mental nor physical energy to run around making sure that everyone is protected from the N attacks by creating boundaries that they are just going to blast right through anyway. I just don't want to waste my time doing this anymore and having regrets that I didn't listen to my intuition screaming at me, Don't Do it, You know you are going to live to regret it! I would rather never see the N's again, then to let them back into my life so that they can once again demonstrate/prove that they still don't love me and break my heart I don't want to revisit that nightmare.

If I am hearing you correctly, You, like me, were born into the Land of Narcissism, married into the Land of Narcissism, and your son has so much identified w/his Nfather that he too has become an N (CZ has a great article on CoN's & Nparents -- very good read!). Sounds to me like you have had your fill of N's and you don't want to deal w/them any more. Great news -- you don't have to. You don't have to bond to N's through guilt and obligation. The hardest thing I had to learn was that self-care is self-love and it is not selfish or self-centered like the N's. Please listen to your intuition and instinct it is telling you to run away, that is why you can not get comfortable with the idea of being in the same room as the N and her enabler. My H came from an imperfect family and although they had their challenges it was nothing like the Land of Narcissism in which you & I grew up in. He does not know what it is like to have a wicked NVampM who finds pleasure in causing her children pain -- and thank God he can not relate to what I have had to go through both during my childhood and adulthood. I don't want him to ever have to know that kind of pain & heartache. Our Hs will never know because they didn't have first hand experience. It is only recently that my H can see the Ns in my family for the cold hearted Counterfeit people they are and he sees what this painful truth is doing to me. Our Nparents are toxic and they contaminate the relationship w/you & your H as evidence of the arguments you are now having that you normally don't have -- this happened to me too!

Okay, here comes the tough love, your father, like my Siblings who enable the Nparent are not blind & death they see what is going on between you & your NMother, but choose to either ignore and play dumb or make excuses. Either way they are telling you to shut up and put up and Keep the Peace at any cost. Please do not think for one minute the enablers don't know what is going on -- they do, there is just a pay off for them.

Now from a Daddy's perspective, my H and I have a pretty awesome relationship, however, he has told me that if my D & I ever stopped speaking to one another or if God forbid we got a divorce and I tried to keep his D away from him, he said, I love you Babe, but nothing & no one, not even my love for you, is going to keep me from my little girl. I know you would be angry at me if you told me not to see our D, but I would rather have you be angry, then never to see her. Your Dad has choices & those choices have their consequences. Your Dad should respect the fact that you can not & do not want to be in the same room as your NMother. Remember, your Dad is making it an all or nothing situation, not you.

I am so very sorry for what you are going through right now. If you can not have peace w/even the idea of your NMother coming over for a visit, then you must listen to that blessed intuition, it is a gift, and remember you have a choice to make to. Like Litha said, you could  back out. there is no need for you to put yourself through the pain.

[Angel.rose]

Thankyou Letting Go,FINALLY someone who knows just where I'm coming from with this..Thank God,I can't tell you what a relief it was to read your reply because as usual I'm being guilt tripped into putting up with what I KNOW is unacceptable..this is why my heads been wrecked over the last few days,because I've been trying to ignore my intuition{yet again,and boy has this got me into trouble in the past}

My Dad MUST know at least in part what she is like..he has turned a blind eye for years..why,I do not know,in so many ways he was a good father,and alot of my guilt is knowing that without him in my childhood I may well not have survived it..BUT he did ignore blatant abuse many times..he ALWAYS made excuses for her..and on the rare times I stood up to her and wouldn't speak to her..he'd always come around to mine to plead her case..and it was down to me to sacrifice how I felt in order to keep my mother {and him}happy..this happened over and over again.

I was the peacemaker,the one who had to stuff down all her feelings in order to make everyone else feel good..and now..after all the work I've done,they are trying to do this to me again.

The guilt is going to be terrible..my daughter messaged me last night to tell me how happy he is..he is meeting her tonight to discuss booking flights online..I have no idea how to cancel this trip..or what to say either..part of me dosent want to deal with it at all..I'm pretty sure if I don't reply to his emails he will get the message and not come out..but I can' be 100% about that..although mostly I'm sure if I don't respond then they won't come...
What angers me as well,is that a year or so ago I sent him a detailed description of what a Narcissistic mother's traits were..I told h im I did not want anything from him..accept perhaps for him to acknowledge what I'd gone through..in private,in an email and without my mother ever knowing..you know what?he ignored that email..didn't respond..I guess that tells me everything I need to know..

Any ideas on how to cancel..do I just not respond to any emails..or do I send him a message,saying I can't do it..
Thankyou again Letting Go,I really needed to hear that it is ok to teke care of me,even if it means that I will probably never see my Dad again..xxx

[tango3]

I would send your father an e-mail.  Just say "sorry, but I can not deal with seeing my mother" and leave it at that.  Short and to the point.

[LettingGo]

Hello AngelRose -- beautiful user name  
What first came to mind when reading your post is, "To Thine Own Self be True" -- brushing up on my Shakespeare.
Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78–82
"To thine own self be true" is Polonius's last piece of advice to his son Laertes, who is in a hurry to get on the next boat to Paris, where he'll be safe from his father's long-winded speeches.
 By "true" he means "loyal to your own best interests." Take care of yourself first, he counsels, and that way you'll be in a position to take care of others.

NC works for me and those who I love most, H & D, but it may not be the right choice at the right time for someone else. Before my D was born the doc said 0 stress = NC w/NVampM, that was the most peaceful time in regards to her that I ever experienced in my entire life. After D was born I fell into the trap that a bad grandmother is better than no grandmother, huge lie! If she can't be a loving mother to me, then she isn't capable of being a loving GM to D. She just wanted to use D for her NS. Last year, was the final proverbial last straw and we went NC w/her. Sure, do I wish I had a loving M and GM for my D, yes, but that is only an illusion of something that never can be w/the NVampM. For me, I would rather at times long for a loving mother, than be abused by the one I have. Thing is there is hope because God is great and if you allow Him he will place loving people who really have your best interest at heart into your life to fill the void of the Ns.

What I find that works best w/guilt is living in truth. It removes the guilt off of you and places it back on those whose responsibility it is to love instead of hurt. My D is under 4 and she has learned what it feels like when others are being mean & hurtful and she has learned that she does not have to put up with this behavior from them. I explained to her that Mommy's Mom is mean to her and until she can learn to be loving towards Mommy we don't want to be around her. When I said that my Mommy was mean you should have seen her beautiful little eyes fill with empathy for her Mommy, and she said, Mama, I am sorry your Mommy is mean to you and she gave me a huge hug. I believe children will understand no matter what the age. Keep it simple. Your children might not understand or agree, they may be disappointed and that's okay. Let them express their disappointment. It is disappointing & upsetting that GM can't be loving towards their Mom.

As far as your Dad is concerned, how does your head feel after banging it against a wall? Hurts a lot. Been there done that many of times. People will refuse to see the truth because that would require them to change their lives to some degree and change is hard for many people. It is easier to keep living in denial. To your Dad, I would be upfront and honest and keep it very simple and say, It isn't a good time for a visit right now. If he responds, When? You respond you don't know at this moment in time. If he asks again later, reply the same, still don't know. Saying anything more detailed and specific is just going to put your Dad on the defense and cause a fight between the two of you. The truth is it isn't a good time because of NM's toxic behavior and since you don't know when or if she will ever change, you don't know when it will be a good time. Later when you are ready to confront your Dad w/the truth about NM and tell him he is welcome for a visit, but she is not, you can do that. But before that happens I would rec. exploring how you feel about Dad's enabling behavior and how he treats you.

What angers me as well, is that a year or so ago I sent him a detailed description of what a Narcissistic mother's traits were..I told h im I did not want anything from him..accept perhaps for him to acknowledge what I'd gone through..in private,in an email and without my mother ever knowing..you know what?he ignored that email..didn't respond..I guess that tells me everything I need to know..

As I said before, been there done that, and I know it hurts. Can I ask you a question? You don't have to post your answer if you don't feel comfortable. What angers/hurts you more the fact that your Dad didn't appreciate all the time and effort you made to share the info about N, or the fact that he totally ignored your e-mail which as your intuition is telling you, he is ignoring you.   I wish I could give you a huge hug right now because I know your pain. My NVampM is the ignoring kind. If you don't comply, she ignores, until she needs something from me which for years was nothing because I cut her off of her NS and I didn't have any children she could get NS from until recently so to her I was useless.

Not to toot my own horn, well maybe just a little   You might find the following links beneficial. They have to do with the truth about enablers and Nparents. They are not an easy read, but for those in our situation I think we need to get in touch w/our feelings so that we are not "guilted" into something that is detrimental for ourselves.

Oh one last thing,

I really needed to hear that it is ok to teke care of me,even if it means that I will probably never see my Dad again..xxx

Sure the probability is that most likely you wont see Dad again -- However the thing about probability is that it is all relative, you could be that small part of the population where your Dad will realize that NM is toxic to be around and his loyalty to her doesn't have to be in direct conflict for his love for his D. You can still keep the hope and not keep the contact. This is your choice you must make for you & yours.

I have experienced guilt about having to go NC from other people who do not know what it is like to have abusive parents, and even from my Siblings who first hand know what it is like. Whether you share my same religion, have a different religion, or none at all, the guilt one has about needing to go NC is the same. Some say we must Honor them at all costs well I have a response to that. . .
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/02/honoring-abusive-evil-toxic-reprobate.html
 
The responsibility enablers have in ones life:
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/02/honoring-abusive-evil-toxic-reprobate.html

And Surviving the Truth
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/03/surviving-truth.html

AngelRose, I know you are at a Cross Roads in your life right now and you are having to accept a painful truth. You are going to get through this difficult time, and when you do there will be a time when you will reach your hand out and help someone else through. Until that time comes, we are here for you. Please know you are not alone. You have a H who loves you, children, friends, you have WoN, and God loves you too.

[SusyP14]

Angel,

Is there any possibility that you could go to where the live and see your father without seeing your mother?  Just a suggestion.

[Julia]

Angel,

It is true, you have to take care of yourself. I know this must be a horrible decision for you, and that you will make it through. It will be rough to explain to your BF, but he needs to accept your decision.


Julia

[Angel.rose]

..I have done it,I emailed him yesterday morning before he went and booked the tickets..didn't want him wasting any money as he'd already felt the need to tell my Eldest D how much all this was going to cost him,even though money is not a problem for him or my NMother.

From reading the replies here,I probably said more than I needed to,but when I'm not walking around in a fog due to these headwreckers,I'm normally a pretty straight talker,I know how to be tactful but still say what is necessary..so I told it like it is..I said how sorry I was to hurt him,but I had changed my mind,that I could not deal with my Mother and pretend to play happy families,when that clearly isn't the case I said he was Welcome to come over anytime he liked alone,knowing of course that that is NEVER going to happen.
I stayed away from my emails all day,not knowing what kind of response I would get,but eventually went in to retrieve a copy of what I'd sent them for my Eldest D.
He had responded..two lines because that's all I'm worth right?{I know that's not true,but in their eyes it is}
He told me how hurt he and my mother were,that she had never abused me and she'd been a good mum to all of us,then the comical bit~if you do not want us in your life then let us know..
They have not been in my life for five years..the last contact with them was at my 40th birthday party,where they all tried to stop me leaving for Ireland..and I threw them all out!
Once again his response made me feel slightly better..it eased some of the guilt..knowing that he felt no remorse or even concern for what I'd emailed him.
I feel like I've been hit by a truck,but have experienced this before,and know it will pass.I've learned some important lessons in dealing with this again..things I have forgotten or not thought about for a while,due to not having to deal with a narcissist close at hand..
One is that they always think that if they wait a few days,or a few years,then you're going to forget what was done to you..well,not me! Another is that there is No Compromise for a Narcissist and her fanclub..they want all or nothing,and preferably they want you to revert to bing a doormat for their convenience once again..well I can't go back to who I was and I've no desire to do so either. I know I will go through a grieving period..again.For the family I thought i had but never did..for the Dad I wanted to be strong,stand up for me and defend me..which he stopped doing once I hit puberty..for the loving sister I thought would always be by my side..yes,it is sad and yes it does hurt..but I don't live in a world of illusion anymore,and in the real world I have a H who adores me and three of my children who I think the world of and am extremely close too..I have good,NORMAL friendships here in Ireland..my life isn't exactly as I want it yet..I've had so many issues to heal from..but each year,it gets better and it gets easier,I would like to thank you all for your caring replies,especially Letting Go ,who really seemed to "get" where I was coming from with this.Hugs Angelxxxx

[peartree]

"well I can't go back to who I was and I've no desire to do so either. I know I will go through a grieving period..again.For the family I thought i had but never did..for the Dad I wanted to be strong,stand up for me and defend me..which he stopped doing once I hit puberty..for the loving sister I thought would always be by my side..yes,it is sad and yes it does hurt..but I don't live in a world of illusion anymore,and in the real world I have a H who adores me and three of my children who I think the world of and am extremely close too..I have good,NORMAL friendships here in Ireland..my life isn't exactly as I want it yet..I've had so many issues to heal from..but each year,it gets better and it gets easier,"

good for you ! hope you are feeling a little surer and proud of yourself. their response was deeply painful for you and showing you again what you cannot get from them. so tough not to get any acknowledgement of the hurt you have suffered, or any apology etc. you are doing great, well done you.
wishing you peace with this,
peartree x x x

[CZBZ]

Dear angel.rose,


If a support community is functioning the way it needs to for everyone concerned, you'll get a variety of thoughts and suggestions from forum members. Not One Answer or One Way to manage the narcissistic relationship. I love this aspect of a healthy support group because we get to know ourselves even better while writing a response, while we're also opening possibilities for other people because of our 'uniqueness.' It's so healing for everyone involved.

The crucial thing is recognizing, validating and taking care of yourself and not feeling forced to fit yourself into one-answer-serves-all.   You know how much you can handle and what you can't and you also know the threat your mother can be to your sense of self. If your father won't limit her meanness and she won't either, why expose your children and spouse to their animosity? It's hard for children to witness their grandparent's aggression towards their mother (or father)! Then they get all stuck in the Drama Triangle, too...most likely doing something unhealthy like Rescuing their Mother, defending their mother.

If your past with your mother was abusive to the degree you cannot tolerate being around her now, then really and truly, your children ought not be exposed to whatever malicious things she might say or do. Based on our limited conversations on WoN, it's hard to know how 'aggressive' your mother may be. Sounds like whatever she did or does can be 'swept under the rug' since your father denies her abuse. One complication for him is that IF he admits she was an abusive mother, he also has to admit he didn't stop it. That makes it complicated for him, too. As long as she wasn't really 'abusive', he isn't responsible for letting the abuse continue.

"One is that they always think that if they wait a few days, or a few years, then you're going to forget what was done to you"

Absolutely! You are so right about that. They assume that bygones will be bygones and rather than accept responsibility for themselves, they accuse other people of being UNFORGIVING if we don't grit our teeth and forget about the abuse and never make them face the truth of what they did to others.

If your relationship with your mother was as terrible as it sounds, then you can't just sweep everything under the rug so SHE feels comfortable.

The day she calls you on the phone and apologizes, truly and sincerely apologizes, then maybe you can consider reconciliation (though it's HARD, very hard even when everyone wants to reconcile). Until she takes responsibility for hurting her children and admitting that she hurt her children, she'll continue hurting her children. It's just that simple.


Hugs,
CZ

[eyes_up]

Angle Rose, there seems to be a whole lot of good words so far in response to your situation. I have quite a few on line friends in the same predicament and I to have been to some degree in the same predicament in terms of dealing with abusive (emotionally or other) iN terms of a narcissistic mother.

Guilt seems to be the legacy of abuse  and deeper yet, shame. I remember going through stages of guilt and shame for not wanting to be around my mother and not visiting her for years. My father was abusive as well so I did not have to contend with the tension you are dealing with. Some times even today I visit just based on the fact that she will be gone soon but mostly nothing has changed with her.

What has changed for me works along side of what CZ says here ... "threat your mother can be to your sense of self. "

My experience of growth through therapy developed the sense of self that now leaves my mother projections with her. I grew right out of the role and all of the emotional patterns that kept me in repetitive behaviors/reactions that really didn't serve me or in general , the world. there is major healing where this be concerned.

Any work you do in honor of a healthy self is all in your time. It isn't about any one else and you deserve that time.

This week end is mothers day. I spoke with my mother and said... would you like to do something for mothers day? her first answer is "NO" ... I do not celebrate most rituals with my mother and this is fine with me. My mother would rather celebrate with her H's friends / not even family. that is the way it is. It used to hurt and now I feel blessed. Her inability to appreciate her children and share times is over all bleak. All requests must come from her ... I have to be invited. There is no me asking her out for an occasion.

 This is the picture after years of work (strife and guilt) on myself and how I changed the negative impact and my learned identification with her projections, rejections and manipulations.

I do not think it is possible for any person who hasn't had your experience, walked in your shoes to know what is right. It is personal and only those who have been born into the same conditions are going to be able to understand ... even then choices and experiences are individual.

Take Care of YOU  

eyes_up

[LettingGo]

AngelRose, You are very welcome & I am honored to help.

From reading the replies here, I probably said more than I needed to,but when I'm not walking around in a fog due to these headwreckers,I'm normally a pretty straight talker,I know how to be tactful but still say what is necessary..so I told it like it is..

Angel, to thine own self you are true. You said exactly what you needed so say and that is all that matters. Bravo to you for just speaking the truth.
To Thine Own Self Be True is important because what works for one doesn't work for someone else. For example, when I was in extremely low contact, almost no contact status w/NVampM I soooooo much dreaded two days of the year, Can you guess what they were? Mother's Day and her Birthday.
 
One time when we were in Hallmark helping pick out a Father's Day card w/my D for her Daddy/my H, my D and I were at the check out, and NVampM comes running (literally running, haven't seen her move that fast in decades!) with a card in hand held up high waving in the air declaring, "I've found it, I've found it!" What did you find mom? I found the perfect b-day card that you need send to me, (this was April or May and her b-day isn't until Sept!). I didn't purchase the card as she was strongly insisting that I do at the time, so she said "Promise me that you will buy this for my b-day and send it to me." You should have seen the look on the lady's face behind the counter, the lady asked me, What if you don't get the card for her? I told her that there would be hell to pay and that I would never live it down. The lady just shook her head (the card was one of those, This is what happened the year you were born cards, and she was turning 65!). A very special Moment that my D & I were sharing together by selecting out her card for her Daddy was tainted and ruined due to NVampM needed fix for NS and make all things about her.

I went NC in Aug due to a Proverbial Last Straw where NVampM did & said some real horrible things. Even then, after NC, I thought should I send the stupid Hallmark Card? I decided not to for two reasons. (1) It would be a fake act on my part because I didn't want anything to do w/her anymore, via the Official NC letter. (2) She immediately began a smear campaign confirming it is always about her & never how she hurts others. The thing is, before NC I was the dutiful D and would comply to her wishes thinking that would make her happy -- NS denied! Too bad NVampM!
Thank God I don't have to stress out anymore looking for the most bland, generic Hallmark Card in the store. Too bad they don't make Cards that say,
(outside of card) To my Narcissistic Mother. . . (inside) You Suck!  Happy Mother's Day. or
(outside of card) a beautiful tender loving scene of a Mother & D embrace
(inside) Too bad this was never us. Happy Mother's Day

Eyes, my heart breaks    when reading

This week end is mothers day. I spoke with my mother and said... would you like to do something for mothers day? her first answer is "NO" ... I do not celebrate most rituals with my mother and this is fine with me. My mother would rather celebrate with her H's friends / not even family. that is the way it is. It used to hurt and now I feel blessed. Her inability to appreciate her children and share times is over all bleak. All requests must come from her ... I have to be invited. There is no me asking her out for an occasion.

Sorry but what the h*ll! She wouldn't even have a Mother's Day if it weren't for YOU! From what I have read from your posts you are such a loving & caring person. Well, that is definitely her loss. Well, she can just stick that Hallmark Card where the   don't shine! I am so very sorry. My protection instinct just automatically kicks in when I hear a NVampM hurt another SIS (Sister In Situation)