Pained........ Again.

[peartree]

hi Legs
nice to meet you ! loving your posts already !
peartree x x x

[eyes_up]

" The more self-disclosing someone is about their intimate wounds, the more other people feel a responsibility to 'protect' or even provide first aid."  CZ "


Solo,  I used to make the assumption that other people were like me in that they felt a responsibility to protect. It has been my life experience that mostly I do not come upon others feeling the responsibility to protect. This is just me. Maybe CZ has been lucky in that realm. I find protective energies and first aid at WoN but I can not say that in all the people I spoke to about my state of wounded-ness there was a whole lot of concern or nature to help and take care. I know there are care takers and I am fortunate enough to have found a few in the 3-D world.

As my therapist stated ... it goes something like this ... There are not enough empathic people or those that pay attention even. There fore I do not walk in this world counting on any one but do find that at times needs are met when I really look. It isn't a black and white. Just gray... sometimes.

I tend to be more incline to make sure people are not abusive. Overly protective is abusive ... now how to discern the quality of protection.

This is why I learn how to do it for myself most of the time and sometimes there are others involved which leads to my next comment.



"I don't know if it's necessarily healthy for me to attract someone who wants to look out for me and protect me" Solo

Solo, It all depends on what you want. The best protection in the world is the protection one can provide them selves. It is great when others arrive at the scene and people do but there are many instances that being able to do it one self is the best choice.

The fact is as adults we can protect ourselves. We have the power to do so. Even as a child i learned to protect myself where my parents were concerned. So the power to protect is innate.

The issue is needing other to protect us when we can do it for ourselves.

Of course as a human fabric we would be  extinguished if we did not protect our selves and others in vulnerable conditions.

The answer to me is that I first look out (take care of) for me and then attract people who reflect that nature and vise versa. Nothing wrong with that. But if one is attracting people that Look out for them with out being able to do it for themselves then it is not teaching a person of their innate power.

There are times I need help and assistance and I tend to ask when I need help and assistance. Prior to that I ask myself ... can I do it myself? I actually do not want friendships and relationships simply built on the care take of me. But looking out for a friend seems to be the way I gravitate If it seems like the person is in need.

At the same time I do not gravitate towards people who are in the conditions of being helpless. That person has to be doing their part in serving self other wise I am not doing the person a real favor by tending to what they can tend to. That is when it is time for a good teacher. I may or may not be that teacher.

So ... attracting some one to protect and look out for you... well, a friend does look out for friends (that would be my expectation of a friendship) in their own way and friends will add to ones own protective efforts at times.

I learned a lot about how to protect myself through out the course of life. I would rather teach a person protection then have them rely on me wholly. It is not gift to that person. If some one has decided that I am their protection project well, that is about them really and no, that may very well not be mutually satisfying and growing relationship.


Peace and Protective skills to you Solo.

 

eyes

[CZBZ]

"...it seems as though there are a lot of lovely women here. is it all women or is there a secret sanctuary for men that I just haven't seen yet. Or maybe they're posting right here right now and I just haven't seen it yet." ~Legs


It's interesting how WoN has evolved over the years. We don't put a sign on the front page forbidding men from joining, yet our forum has become a sanctuary for women. Perhaps there's a reason for that since it's been a natural process occurring overtime.

In the beginning (2005), quite a few men participated on WoN and enhanced our understanding of female narcissists. The biggest problem with a 'mixed group' that I've observed is that men take it personally when women write about abusive men. This will be a bold statement for me to make but it's my observation that men "Identity" with men, even if those men are abusers. They seem to have a problem identifying with victimized women on this forum, although that is their reason for joining WoN because they claim to have been victimized by a narcissistic woman.

In a weird turn-of-events, even men claiming to have been victimized, begin defending male narcissists or accusing women of 'hating men'. In other words, men take it personally because they do NOT see themselves in the women writing here. Their discomfort *verbally expressed in messages* unfortunately silences or at least inhibits women's self-disclosure. We end up with women's messages starting or ending with a disclaimer: "I don't hate all men, especially not you so-and-so-or-whoever-the-male-member's-screenname-might-be, but the man in my life was an azzhole. Not that you are! You are completely different!"

That situation is a hindrance to women's ability to speak openly without fear of offending A Man.

I don't figure most of us realize that we are falling into old patterns protecting men and silencing ourselves but that's my observation of what happens in a mixed group. So without prohibiting men from joining WoN, they make their own free choice to find another forum that doesn't trigger their widdle sensitivities because the LAST thing I will ever do is tell a woman to moderate her journey on WoN so she doesn't inadvertently offend a man.  

Most men leave in short order, usually sending me a nasty email about our Male-Bashing-Message-Board. Which is preposterous, really. Many of us have sons or fathers or other male relatives/friends that we love dearly. Men with whom we feel 'safe' and 'respected'. Men to whom we are committed, no matter what social changes both men and women face together. I do not placate or urge angry men to give WoN a second chance. I stopped pleasing men when filing for divorce.

If a man can manage to 'identify with and relate to' his fellow female board members, he is more than welcome to participate.

However, that seems to be an impossible leap of the imagination....  


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

"CZ, you are a wonderful administrator and you seem to have such an ability with psychology!  Do you have any schooling background or just the live-in case study?    Either way, you seem to really have an answer for everything, that comes across -thought out, considerate and insightful.  Much much thanks for this website!!" ~solo


I really must put a short bio on this website so people will know a little more about me (and other managers who work with me behind-the-scenes). I do NOT have a psychology degree nor a therapeutic practice which frees me from worrying about giving bad advice and end up being sued for malpractice.  Professionals must be careful with one-on-one advice, especially online. What I worried would be a disadvantage as a 'peer based forum' has ended up being an advantage for WoN.

I am also privileged to be financially independent which allows time for me to keep this forum operating smoothly; a privilege most people do not have even if they would like to offer their time to other people, educating, supporting and giving 'back'.

I can tell you that I have read extensively about the NPD disorder...maybe even more than most practicing therapists (or so some of my professional-psychology friends have reassured me). My basic personality tends to be a more 'scientific' one (despite my artistic expression!), dedicated to research and facts, even if it means sitting in the corner of a library for years. LOL...Not that I have been afforded such a luxury since I am surrounded by family members living with me---including a 'special needs' nephew I have taken care of since he was five years old. He's 18 now. Gaining a broader understanding of psychology has been essential since he's been in therapy since he was eight. I have had plenty of reasons to continue learning about psychology, in other words.

Maybe my greatest learning opportunity came from growing up in a dysfunctional family, creating a functionally dysfunctional family, and putting my learning to practice on WoN. We tend to discount practical experience (the woman's experience) and glorify academic knowledge when the challenge for every human being really, is balancing the two.

I have been either an assistant manager or manager of a narcissism message board since 2003. Believe me, this has been a most rewarding experience and I have (as many of you know) learned a lot about managing a 'recovery group'.   



Hugs,
CZ