Experts share disturbing information about the far-reaching consequences of porn

[Litha]

http://www.catholicherald.com/local_news/detail.html?sub_id=13283

The briefing, “Pornography Harms: What Congress Can Do to Enforce Existing Laws,” was led by Patrick Trueman, a former chief of the U.S. Department of Justice Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section and a current parishioner of St. Mark Church in Vienna. Trueman’s website, pornharms.com, launched earlier this year as a database of online articles and essays on the harmful effects of pornography.

The briefing was attended by nearly 90 people, including members of congress and their staffs. Trueman was one of seven speakers at the event, which included anti-pornography experts from the academic and psychological fields and a former pornography performer.

The purpose of the day’s briefing was to educate members of congress about the real-life consequences of pornography and encourage them to fight for stronger enforcement of existing obscenity laws.

During his presentation, Trueman spoke about the sometimes-used argument that fighting pornography is limiting to the adult entertainment industry’s constitutional right of free speech. He referred to the 1973 case of Miller vs. California, where the Supreme Court said, “To equate the free and robust exchange of ideas and political debate with commercial exploitation of obscene material demeans the grand conception of the First Amendment and its high purposes in the historic struggle for freedom. It is (as defined in a prior case) a ‘misuse of the great guarantees of free speech and free press.’”

“The court has never said that obscene pornography is protected speech. It is not and it is very harmful,” Trueman said.

[Wren]

Litha:

I think the argument can be that some normal people do enjoy porn.  For me, it got boring very fast, and not proud of even that.  For others, they're just addicted.  Always another level. 

I would think certain men with their prop could close their eyes and enjoy the scenery, but I guess they don't have the imagination.  Ah, lucid dreaming, how I would like to figure that out.

I'm not condoning porn, just saying that there's also a huge market of those who don't have perverted issues.  There's also a women's market for porn now because it's so easy to attain.  it's not like the ol' days where women had to walk into mom and pop porn shops with their man.  And yes, I understand the blackmarket, the violence, the oppression.  It depresses me.  In addition to that, whether we like it or not, there are women who like this business.  So they say anyway... but they would never work for minimum wage, would they?  Where are the Mexican prostitutes?  Where is their voice?  Where are the johns calling them out?

I understand wholeheartedly the feelings when someone is addicted, it happened to me with xN.  Every single time I walked up to his so called home office, the screen went blank.  I saw that with my own eyes.

I think porn is an addictive drug, but who are we to say?  That's the weird question.

[Flower]

Wren,
Your post:
I think porn is an addictive drug, but who are we to say?  That's the weird question.


Addictive drug?  Think about the affects of porn:
 How much does it consume the one who is viewing porn?
Does this interfere with his/her job or around the house duties to the point of severe neglect?
How has that person's behavior changed because of viewing all this porn?
    Is this person more irritable when not viewing porn?
    Is this person consumed by sexuality?
    Is this person expecting deviancy from his/her partner?
    Does this person's partner feel more objectified due to this porn viewing?

If there are more yes answers than nos, then there is an addiction, similiar to a drug addiction.

IMO, people who can watch porn without being addicted often end up getting bored or upset, as there is so much of a spirtual discontent, much like two animals going at it.

Flower

[Litha]

I think the argument can be that some normal people do enjoy porn.

Many normal people enjoy things that are not healthy for them, that does not change the fact that it is unhealthy.

I'm not condoning porn, just saying that there's also a huge market of those who don't have perverted issues.

Well, I can't argue with the fact that there is a huge market for it. That's why producers of porn are willing to prey on vulnerable young women and men, most of whom have been used for sex since they were children, and use them until they die of STDs, drug overdose, or suicide.  

BTW, did you know that the largest demographic for porn-viewers is children ages 12-17?

And yes, I understand the blackmarket, the violence, the oppression.  It depresses me. 
.

What black market? even the vilest forms of pornography are free on the internet now, and no one is enforcing any laws against it.

In addition to that, whether we like it or not, there are women who like this business. 

I used to like narcissists too, but I got better.
 
Litha

[CZBZ]

"IMO, people who can watch porn without being addicted often end up getting bored or upset, as there is so much of a spirtual discontent, much like two animals going at it." ~Flower

I like your description of 'spiritual discontent'...explains exactly what happens to people when the 'meaning of sex' is reduced to hedonism.

The psychologist working with my nephew told us that pornography was more addictive than heroin and people's perceptions of pornography as a harmless activity are unfounded and wrong-headed. He said people start with a little bit of porn to get a 'high' and then it escalates. What made someone feel titillated in the beginning, no longer does. I can't explain the impact of porn on the brain but this particular psychologist said that it 'changed' the brain, much like a drug and even though we might think his ant-porn stance was a bit strict, he said people can and do end up on sidewalks like any other addiction.

I kinda poo-poohed people's concerns about porn for awhile, just going along with the 'flow' of a culture steeped in narcissism. You get so used to seeing men and women 'glowing' in television ads selling chocolate prophylactics and cherries jubilee (LOL) that we don't even pay attention to it anymore. I for one, am truly disgusted with the way we have objectified sex and THIS is what we are teaching our children when we sit quietly in our living rooms and don't make a scene.

When an advertisement for Sexual enhancement no longer shocks us, we have in effect, 'numbed' ourselves and that's exactly when the advertising industry will UP the ANTE to shock us into paying attention again. It's a slow process...And as usual, we take it to the extreme until enough people are hurt that we reign things back again.

Hugs,
CZ

[Litha]

I'm glad you chimed in on this one CZ, I was searching for a post of yours on this subject and couldn't fine it. You wrote about having counselled so many women over the years and never heard from a single one that porn helped them have a better intimate relationship. Something about how for some it spiced things up for a little while, but always ended up making them feel badly about themselves.

Did you make a post like that or did I just dream it?

 
Litha

[CZBZ]

You are remembering correctly, Litha! Countless numbers of women have written about the impact of porn on their self-worth. They may have agreed to 'try' porn to please their partner, even when they felt uncomfortable, hoping a little 'spice' in the bedroom would translate to a happier and more content partner. Usually (and I say 'usually' even though it might be more accurate to say "always"), pornography increases alienation from a partner AND herself.

I can run a search too and see if this post comes up. It would be a great idea to have a permanent link on porn and the impact on women. In my experience, PORN is the 'last straw' before she gets dumped when she has unknowingly partnered with a narcissist. Why is this so? I'll list a few reasons that are generalizations but might describe why PORN and NARCISSISM are so destructive to other people:

1-pornography objectifies sex, reducing it to pleasure without 'meaning' (perfect for the narcissist's mentality)

2-Narcissist relish in getting someone to do something that is destructive or something they would otherwise never do because it contradicts with their values

3-pornography is addictive, what was thrilling becomes less so, thus escalating the behavior

4-Degradation of the other person makes the narcissist feel superior.

5-The narcissist is on his way out the door already when he takes one last opportunity to destroy his partner's self-worth and self-esteem. This is especially ruinous for women who then blame themselves for participating in something that contradicted their beliefs. If the narcissist has degraded his partner and tells her she 'asked for it', it takes awhile for her to realize she was desperately doing whatever she could to please him (women must then deal with the shame they feel when he leaves only AFTER he tires of his game)

6-Sex is not intimacy though women often equate the two. When talking about narcissists, porn and sex, it's best to visit a cattle yard and watch the cows 'do it'. That certainly set things straight in my head again, LOL. When porn enters the narcissist's bedroom, it may be the first time some women realize they are being objectified (though this is how the narcissist has viewed them from the very beginning).

At no point in this process, does the woman realize the narcissist CANNOT find meaning because he (or she) is focused on the thrill. Even sex with a committed partner is a masturbatory exercise. what may happen is that she will KEEP trying to please him because she does NOT realize he uses sex to feel in control and superior to her. When he finally leaves, she is the one that is left feeling used, abused and ashamed of herself.

I have met women who felt so ashamed of what they agreed to do when their partner expressed his sexual disatisfaction, that they cannot even talk about it. They cry, hang their heads and tell me they cannot speak of it. This is the insidious and tragic result of being demeaned by the narcissist when in her mind, she was 'making their marriage' even better.

Now two narcissists can enjoy the hedonistic aspects of sex and porn because they are both involved for their own pleasure. The problem is when a tender heart is unaware that her partner finds no meaning in sex, other than the 'pleasure'.


Hugs,
CZ

[Wren]

There are normal people who do use porn to better their sex lives.  Perhaps, they're only watching "Married Amateur Couples" on a Friday night.

I agree with all posts here.  As I said, It's boring to me, most often disgusting.  Let's face it though, it's an industry making money.  Women along with men will cash in... I'm speaking more about the producing portion, not the acting.  The greed in our Country cuts deep.  Women are really getting involved with the porn industry on all levels though, even as a consumer.  I don't understand it, I'm just putting it out there.  I don't understand the reality shows either, but yet they make money.

[Wren]

CZ, I understand what you're saying about a tender heart.  On the other hand, there are many who want to do this.  Perhaps they're screwed up women who had child molestation problems, etc.,  or perhaps just someone as the "Happy Hooker."  I know how I feel about certain issues, but I don't know how to think about them sometimes.  There just may be women out there like alley cats and like it that way.  Men have been doing it forever... and I'm not saying two wrongs make a right.  Reign it in altogether.

Yes, those commercials peeve me too... call a doctor after an a erection after six hours, pfft, for whom?  A man usually ducks into another room over a tampon commercial, but yet we've been bombarded by these ED spots during the dinner hour for years already.  Oh, and thank you Bob Dole, LOL.  What a visionary.

[CZBZ]

I hear ya, Wren. Some women participate in porn with their partner but please don't tell me about it.  

There are so many situations in life that are complicated and it's hard to know where to stand on the issue. We can still make a decision for ourselves based on our experiences and for me, that means: Porn is bad. Porn hurts people. Porn sucks.  

There's a new bumpersticker out there some people think is 'transformational'. I think it sucks, too. It says "Feminists F**k better!"

I guess that's how feminists compete with the idea they are asexual? By defining themselves as a great F**K???????

The world is a crazy damn place.

I'm gonna go bake some cinnamon rolls now.


Hugs,
CZ

[Wren]

So I take it you gals aren't for legalized prostitution either?

Flower, I loved your response.

One point I would like to express is that I don't want to be too much of a harpy on any subject.  Look how prohibition worked out, not so well.

I seriously don't understand the desire for porn, but I do understand the seedy industry $$$.

I had a flashback moment of my first apartment decades ago.  Once while my old boyfriend and I were coming up from the basement, he saw a teeny tiny little corner of something jutting out from under the staircase.  He had a huge grin on his face and said, "I bet I know what this is."  I'm thinking what, what, WHAT?  So he pulled on it, and out came a Playboy centerfold.  He said some kid must have hid it there, many boys do that.  He was laughing his *ss off!

I had no idea, this is common for boys?  I can understand now how the Internet has taken over and how the young are getting hooked.  It seemed a bit innocent when it was just a centerfold... or how about when men would look at the bra section of the Sears catalog?

See, I don't know what to think of certain things because ignoring an issue isn't right either.  In general, males have more of a visual type brain.  For me, I would rather read a sexy novel, lol.  Actually, I have some pretty amazing dreams, tee-hee, I amaze myself with what I come up with!

CZ, this world is a crazy place.  I must have been a zombie the first few decades of my life.

All the best,
Wren

[BlueSky]

Well, it isn't likely to go away, but I think there needs to be some serious discussion about it.  It is true that much of the demographic for internet porn is 12 - 17 year-old kids.  There are also more and more women viewing it and they also can become addicts. 

What I find sad is that these kids go out and do what they see and they think that what they see on the internet is the breadth and depth of human sexuality - which just ain't true.  When you think of the consequences of the actions kids take, it is a huge toll on their physical, spiritual and mental health.  I've seen a lot of reports where many teens and young adults opt to have 'relationships' online because they don't want to have to deal with a real relationship outside of cyberspace.

My ex was a porn addict.  It had a terrible effect on our lives.  I've met a few women whose lives were also turned upside down by their husbands porn viewing.

Some people can view it and there doesn't seem to be any ill effects (but who knows for sure) and then there are some who get hooked and the rather tame stuff doesn't do it for them anymore so they get into more and more extreme stuff.  I find the idea that some people get into really violent porn scary - it is horrifying what is out there available on the internet.  Also, my ex started to get into illegal porn - which is just horrendous when you think about all the kids that had to be abused to create it.  Anyway, some porn addicts continue on the search for a better high by acting out in real life by getting involved in voyeurism and even rape.  Some spend all the $$ they have on porn which ruins their and their families finances. 

I actually read about some research this past year and they found that women can become just as aroused as men by porn and they can be just as visually oriented as men, they just react differently to it.

I have also seen research where they did brain scans on porn addicts and viewing porn does change their brains. 

I have been on some porn debate boards and have been bashed quite a bit for my views - there are many people that very strongly defend it to the point of verbally attacking other people.  It is a huge, huge industry and enough mainstream companies get $$ from it, so I know porn isn't going away.  But I still feel sad when I think about how many people have been negatively affected by it.  The last statistic I saw from an association of divorce lawyers claimed that half of divorces are now due to porn.

[Legs]

<<So I take it you gals aren't for legalized prostitution either?>>

actually, I am and for legalizing pot too as you can't hope to control anything unless it's legal and then you can tax it, plus control the quality of the product.

Legs, who thinks we spend too much money trying to put the oldest profession in the world out of business

[CZBZ]

I always squint my eyes when people spout statistical proof of male and female differences. If you take a hard look at those differences, they are not very different at all. IN fact, many men are more like women than than they are like other men and vice versa.

I won't get on my soap box about socialization and privilege.... 

hugs,
CZ

[betterdays]

I know many people use porn to spice up their sex lives, but that doesn't mean it won't end  up damaging one of you, and guess who is more likely to be hurt?

If any woman thinks porn is not damaging because it hasn't hurt her, she should just keep a close eye on her children.  When we get older, the N abandons us, and he has no qualms about using his own flesh and blood for a warm place to ejaculate.

[Wren]

Legs, you're hilarious, I adore you.  Yes, really, everything you said.

I've been down in South Florida for about 18 yrs... aside from prostitution, let me say that I had such a pre-conceived idea of what a stripper was --these women I've met down here have been amazing.  Super nice and extremely intelligent.  One woman I've known has gone back to school and is now receiving a master's degree, and get this, in social services, LOL.  She will be great in this field.  She's the most caring individual I've ever met, and because of her past, even more so.  She used to tell me that I could become a Den Mother, LOL, I never took it as an insult, she meant it as a compliment.  It always made me laugh though.  She broke out of the mess, that's the amazing story.

My bigger issue with our country is the dumbing down of education.  We seem to have money for everything else.  The extreme media as well, with all their following, is tearing this country apart more than any one seedy issue.  We should all be able to think independently with some common sense and fairness.

Thanks for the smile,
Wren

[Litha]

She broke out of the mess, that's the amazing story.

I'm so glad to hear that your freind was able to get free of that industry. So many young people die there. If you enjoy stories like that, you might enjoy some of the videos made by The Pink Cross (one of my favorite charities). The founder, Shelley Lubben, is a former porn star who has made it her mission in life to educate people about the horrifying realities of this industry. She helps young women (and men!) climb out of that cesspool and rebuild their lives. I find it very inspiring and donate when I can. Shelley has made me very intolerant of porn, however.

Personally, I would consider a potential boyfriend's positive interest in porn to be a huge red flag 

My bigger issue with our country is the dumbing down of education.

Have you read "Dumbing us Down" by John Taylor Gatto? I am a big fan of all his writings. The first time I read his "Six Lesson Schoolteacher" essay I felt like Neo waking up outside the Matrix. It certainly explains why our culture is so prone to addictions of every kind, public school programmed us to be that way.

[Litha]

To Flower, Bluesky, CZBZ, Flower and betterdays I want to say a BIG THANK YOU for the validation. My exN, who claimed to be "not that into porn" even though he was viewing and masturbating to it for hours every day, did everything in his power to convince me that there was "something wrong" with me because I objected to his porn use and pursuit of virtual sex partners online.

My therapist has assured me that my feelings about porn use are completely normal, and that most women feel just as I do. It is such a relief for me to know that his defensiveness was all about projection and gaslighting, and there really is nothing wrong with me in this regard.

 
Litha

[BlueSky]

Validation can be so helpful!  I don't know where I'd be without it.

When I found exN had been viewing internet porn on a regular basis for over two years (he usually did it when I was busy taking care of our baby), I was upset as it appeared he was beginning to spend more time viewing it and the content was getting worse.  Then I found a few weeks later that he had begun attempting to download child porn (don't know how much, but I did catch him one morning wiping the hard drives on both pc's) and he was also downloading incest stories 3 or 4 times a day with horrible stories of children being raped.  My sister and mother told me to just try to 'get over it' but they did suggest marriage counseling. 

The counseling was pretty much a joke.  I brought up my concerns and the therapists didn't seem overly concerned.  They didn't inform me of our state laws (I broke one by not turning him in - which I didn't find out until a few years later).  They gave us several marriage books to read and it seemed to me that they did the type of counseling they do for couples with 'normal' marital problems. 

One book had a list of chores around the house and you were supposed to mark off who did what - I thought to myself, "I don't care who changes the f***ing lightbulbs around here!"  I really and truly thought there was something wrong with me because I couldn't get over what exN had done, I couldn't even begin to trust him again and I was worried because the books didn't seem to be helpful - I only felt even more scared when reading them as I knew in my gut there was no way I could go through any of the exercises in them.  I felt if there wasn't something wrong with me, then the books and therapy should be working!!  And it really bugged me that some marriage books suggested using porn as a couple.  Also, the attitude that you sometimes find that if a person doesn't like porn it means they are a prude or anti-sex affected my thinking.  I kept thinking, 'there's something wrong with me because 'all guys do this'.   

I did begin group therapy for co-dependency and the thing that was most helpful in that was that there were other women in there dealing with porn-addicted husbands.  I left the group therapy once I realized it wasn't helping much - best thing in the world to do!!  The psychologist I found later was a much bigger help - he had worked with porn and sex addicts (including working with sex offenders), I learned so much more from him than I did from my original therapists or group therapy.  My psychologist told me that when he sees couples and it comes out that the guy has viewed child porn, he tells the wife to leave.  He told me it was a huge disservice that my original therapists basically swept the porn use under the rug.  I felt validated.

It took me a year to work through my reactions to what exN had been doing and finally I decided that I had a right to what I felt and that I had a right to decide I didn't want porn in the marriage.  The night I confronted exN about breaking his promise to stop all porn use, he pretty much told me that he just had more 'liberal' ideas about sex than I did, so I said I wanted a divorce.  It was such a relief to finally make the decision.

What helped me in making that decision was prior experience with an alcoholic and Al-Anon, finding online resources and talking to other women both IRL and online.  To find out I wasn't alone was so very helpful!  I didn't meet my psychologist until after the divorce, but it was still great to be validated again.

I found out a few weeks before exN remarried that he still hadn't acknowledged the seriousness of what he'd done and when asked what kind of work he'd done to work on his porn use, he said he'd just stopped and that he had worked on himself, that he liked people more now and that he liked giving parties.     I felt so sorry for his wife-to-be as I felt sure she had no idea or if he'd told her anything, it wasn't the full truth.

[Legs]

Yeah...........Lucifer said I was a prude. Americans were puritanical and repressed sexually. No one in (his Home Country) would mind. None of his other wives cared.....and I'm not talking about just viewing anonymous porn...I am talking having sex with other women!

He said porn for men is like when women read romance novels....I said maybe, but reading a romance novel never made me go out and scr*w other men.


He's an azz. A deluded, selfish, stupid, cheating, lying azz.


And he writes amazingly clumsy and disgusting emails to his other women. I wish I could quote one there do you could see the level...it's like a 14 year old boy might write except, as usual, it's ALL ABOUT HIM and all about his, um...he refers to it either as Mr. P or as HIM, in caps....like if it was GOD or something...he actually says HE and SHE when he is talking about their "parts" and of course, refers to t*@# her as HER. It is totally repulsive. I am going to take a vomit bag for my poor attorney on Friday when I had this over to him.


legs, what a topic for Sunday morning

[Litha]

The night I confronted exN about breaking his promise to stop all porn use, he pretty much told me that he just had more 'liberal' ideas about sex than I did,

sheesh, he's that kind that give liberals a bad name!

The porn I found in my exNs email account was all about comparing young perky nude bodies to middle aged not-so-perky bodies. This was supposed to be funny. I didn't laugh. And it wasn't just one email, his box was full of that shite. And there was one comparing young perky nude women to expensive sport cars, while middle women were like rusted out junkers. How romantic. Wouldn't you just love to start a family with a guy who looks at that. Wouldn't you just know he would be there for you as you age, supporting and loving you....NOT!

And then his facebook account was overflowing with female "friends" who were looking for anonymous online sex. Yeah, that was a dealbreaker for me.

Thanks for posting your story BlueSky. Even when the porn is blatantly illegal and immoral like your exNs, people are there to defend him and say he has a right. Bullpucky! Those counselors broke the law even more than you did, they should have reported him as a virtual child molestor.

I'm glad you got away from him, I'm glad we all got away from our Ns.

 
Litha

[Litha]

He said porn for men is like when women read romance novels....

horsepucky! a novel is completely imaginary, porn involves real women and real men doing things that put them at risk for every kind of physical and emotional disease. For the perverse and narcissistic entertainment of others.

I read the other day that the Playboy empire is shrinking. Apparently centerfolds are too tame for todays youth, they prefer the illegal violent stuff that is free online. where will it end I wonder?

 
Litha

[BlueSky]

The empire is shrinking??  Serves Hef right...he certainly played a big part in making porn mainstream....

I shudder to think what's next.  I am not surprised today's youth would find centerfolds tame....the stuff that is available online is pretty violent and scary.

[betterdays]

I spent the afternoon with a friend who has 4 daughters.  My friend was married to a high functioning N and had all her kids with him. Today I learned that 3 of the 4 were molested by their N father.  N father was covert, and had a porn habit that increased over time.  When the oldest D was 10, N began molesting her.  It hit a peak when there were 3 girls in and near puberty, and their father was molesting them, all 3.  He showed them porn so they would not be shocked by the world, he said.  He later said he did nothing wrong, as they had to lose their virginity anyway, and so it might as well be with him. He told my friend but would not repeat to the psychologist or judge, that he had a right to have sex with his girls.  He said they were his.  I just do not buy that porn is ever okay, even if it turns some women on, as well as the men. 

[CZBZ]

"Then I found a few weeks later that he had begun attempting to download child porn (don't know how much, but I did catch him one morning wiping the hard drives on both pc's) and he was also downloading incest stories 3 or 4 times a day with horrible stories of children being raped.  My sister and mother told me to just try to 'get over it' but they did suggest marriage counseling."

That's the craziest damn thing I've heard in a long time, bluesky.  We had a woman on WoN who caught her husband downloading child porn and you know what she did? She called the police who confiscated his computer and threw his sorry ass in jail.

Narcissists and incest (pedopholia) go hand-in-hand. I'll try to find some of the research i've read about Narcissism and sexual perversions/paraphilias. Stuff that used to shock us is becoming mainstream which is why people oughta make a stand somewhere and say 'No'.

I have this relative (now I'm telling stories!) who was married to a diagnosed BPD/AsPd husband. He was into porn, too. He let their children watch porn when they were little, like two years old. When we visited, lo and behold, the little brothers were 'humping' their sister and Daddy thought it was funny.

that sister is now getting intensive therapy. The boys are doing fine. Some fo them are in jail but otherwise, they're making babies all over the world. How lovely.

I do not endorse using porn because of my life experiences and the many, many women who have been hurt by pornography. When a man complains that his marriage is stale and he needs to spice it up with porn, he's likely saying he hasn't been able to find 'meaning' and 'intimacy' in his marital relationship and rather than get treatment (if treatment can even help), he wants her to act like his girlfriend which in my opinion, STRIPS meaning and intimacy from HER experience because she must now take the role of an object and treat her husband like one.

That was a long run-on sentence. I'm still a little loopy from a medical procedure.


Hugs,
CZ