Second thoughts (again)

[~Solo]

I know I have tooted my horn of "I'm so going to get over him", BUT.....

Right now, looking back at my whole relationship with Nhusband, I'm wondering, "Was I just plain sensitive?".  "Did he REALLY do anything wrong by having goals and aspirations?".  I mean, I do and he was ALWAYS fine with whatever I did.  I just felt that he could BE more interested in what I was doing or wanting to spend time together.  Maybe that was just 'icky' sticky for him?   

Does anyone ever feel that maybe you were really too needy in a sense or smothering?  I hope this doesn't sound off any alarms for anyone.  I'm back in the stage of wondering just what is wrong with me?  Sadness is looming and I'm just under three months of being separated from him.  We have gotten to a place of communication regarding divorce.  Maybe because I have agreed to not use an attorney.  We are trying to write up an agreement and have them 'looked over' then file a summary dissolution.  It seems that he is rather pleased that I'm not mentioning emotions or missing him or legal actions (of course he'd be happy about THAT).  He's clearly cutting our ties and moving on.  Inside I hurt beyond comprehension while my exterior reflects what I have read I should show an N.  All the while I ponder the thought that I have made some of this stuff up in my own head.  I find myself force feeding bad thoughts of him to remind me.  However, doesn't everyone do stuff that's not necessarily 'great'?  Maybe I have over-blamed ex?
 
I know none of you know me personally and this is hard to answer when you didn't see the day to day, but I guess I'm looking for relief of some sort. 

Feeling despair,
~Solo 
    

[Proud2B]

Solo,
<<<<hugs>>>>>

If it was just a simple matter of him having goals and aspirations, it would be an easy question to answer, right?  Of course there is nothing wrong with having them.  But what one does with those goals and aspirations can be a totally different equation.

It sounds like you're second guessing yourself, which is totally normal.  We've all done it.

It also sounds like you might be making excuses for his past behavior.....?  We've all done that too.

Sit with the feelings of sadness; acknowledge them. 

But most of all, don't blame yourself for the relationship ending.  N's love that about us - we're willing to take on the whole responsibility for making the relationship work, and when we express our (normal) needs, they tell us we're too sensitive, too demanding, too needy, too something.  Don't buy it.  It isn't true.

With loving kindness,
Proud2B
 

[honeybearII]

I think we all went through the , "was it me?" stage, but the difference really is in HOW he went about meeting his goals and aspirations.  I have since looked at other couples and realized that they worked on them TOGETHER with both partners compromising and helping.  While my H never actually put obstacles in my way to meet my own aspirations, he also virtually made it impossible for me to do so.  How do they do this?  By making life ALL ABOUT THEM.  Oh sure, he gave lip service to his wanting me to do my thing, but every time I tried to do so, something ALWAYS came up and it never happened.  Once we had children, he simply washed his hands of any meaningful parenting, which meant I was actually a single mom while HE went about doing exactly whatever he wanted to.  If I dared mention that some cockamamie idea was maybe not such a good idea, he would forge ahead in spite of my protestations just to prove me wrong. 

I don't think I was overly sensitive.  I think I was NORMAL and HE was selfish.  Ambition is one thing.  Ambition at the expense of marriage, kids, family life and anyone else's needs is NARCISSISM.

Honey

[SetURselfFREE47]

"Was I just plain sensitive?".  "Did he REALLY do anything wrong by having goals and aspirations?"...." Maybe that was just 'icky' sticky for him?"

Well, what about you? what was that like for you? It is really a rare thing when someone is being "just plain sensitive". That really is just not giving yourself credit or validation for feeling the way you do. And then to have someone not recognize, validate, or consider your feelings WILL leave you questioning yourself. Also, if you are questioning whether or not you are being too needy, chances are, you probably are not. Sure there are times when we all need a little extra TLC. But this, with love, will be met with no questions asked and without making you feel "needy". Second guessing yourself is being fed by your own doubts, whatever they may be about, and thats normal, it is a part of the healing process. I can bet that somewhere in those doubts is the fact that it can be soooooo difficult to really believe that someone, with whom we once (or still do) love, can I really be so bad. The truth hurts. It can be devastating. But suffering is not the same as pain. Suffering is when we won't let go of the pain, and he cling to it, hoping it will go away. It won't go away, it is the elephant in every room we enter. We have to heal. You are in the middle of a transition. It sucks, it is hard, but you are doing it!  kudos for making it this far, and good luck for making it even further. You owe it to yourself. Love yourself.

    

[~Solo]

 

I don't think I was overly sensitive.  I think I was NORMAL and HE was selfish.  Ambition is one thing.  Ambition at the expense of marriage, kids, family life and anyone else's needs is NARCISSISM.

Honey

Yeah - I guess you're right.  I am sad to share that I would have freakin' put him before anything or anyone in our life (within reason of course)!  However, I did not come first even though he said I did. 

When I hear how you had to raise children during the whole ordeal, I am humbled.  Thanks for THAT 

~Solo
 

[~Solo]

"Was I just plain sensitive?".  "Did he REALLY do anything wrong by having goals and aspirations?"...." Maybe that was just 'icky' sticky for him?"
 The truth hurts. It can be devastating. But suffering is not the same as pain. Suffering is when we won't let go of the pain, and he cling to it, hoping it will go away.

    

That's a HUGE point!  I was SUFFERING.  I'm not now.  I AM in pain however.  That does make sense and a difference in my outlook.  TY! 

~Solo
 

[~Solo]

Solo,
<<<<hugs>>>>>

If it was just a simple matter of him having goals and aspirations, it would be an easy question to answer, right?  Of course there is nothing wrong with having them.  But what one does with those goals and aspirations can be a totally different equation.

With loving kindness,
Proud2B
 

Thanks for the HUG!    What was HE going to DO with a finish in the IRON MAN anyway?  I mean he took a freakin' year and a half to do it (started RIGHT after we became engaged-that WASN'T defeating!) with all the body drama, time drama, me not supporting him drama, etc.  My goal was school to get a better education to make better money for our family we had planned.  Thanks for allowing me to SEE THAT...

Whew... ok.  I can DO THIS! 

~Solo

[tango3]

Solo
I'm sure you aren't alone in the wondering what you did wrong.  I know I went through that in the initial months (and long before I knew stbxN was an N).  He told me that I had "drained the life out of him" (in actual fact I now know that he drained the life out of me).  That I was unreasonable in my demands (these consisted of actually spending some time with me and putting me and his family FIRST).  I now joke that I was so far down his list of priorities I wasn't even on the same page!
Like Honey I spent my marriage raising my son from my first marriage and then his two children by myself - I may as well have stayed a single parent, I would have had a lot more support.  He had no interest in anything I did, in fact he constantly belittled me and told me how stupid I was (strange he's the only person in the world that thinks I'm stupid). 

You are only three months into this - these thoughts are normal - it also means that you are normal person capable of deep introspection.  When I was going through this not once did HE ever admit that he was at fault.  Has your N ever said "hey I didn't do the right thing?".

And I'm re-quoting Honey's quote here - this is so spot on it should be carved in stone:

Ambition is one thing.  Ambition at the expense of marriage, kids, family life and anyone else's needs is NARCISSISM

So ((((()))) to you Solo - this too shall pass.

[~Solo]

Thanks Tango!! 

I guess ONCE, he did say, "This isn't all you.  I have histrionic personality disorder and NPD".    Then to go right back into the behavior....AFTER asking me to try and love him even though he doesn't know who HE is????  lalalalal - crazy!

Then, this last week, he emailed me a link to better understand men.  He wrote, "I know I have a long way to go and I'm not trying to start a fight, but here is a link to...".  I guess things like that make you wonder and scratch your head.  It also makes me wonder if he studied just enough on Nism to squeek those out!     He did know his diagnosis two years before I came along....

I'm sorry you were subjected to such neglect and having to raise three children alone - no matter if they were ALL yours.  Marriage is about everything and everyone sharing ALL.  At least, that's how I saw it. 

~Solo
 

[Litha]

I know I have tooted my horn of "I'm so going to get over him", BUT.....

Right now, looking back at my whole relationship with Nhusband, I'm wondering, "Was I just plain sensitive?".  "Did he REALLY do anything wrong by having goals and aspirations?".  I mean, I do and he was ALWAYS fine with whatever I did.  I just felt that he could BE more interested in what I was doing or wanting to spend time together.  Maybe that was just 'icky' sticky for him?  

Does anyone ever feel that maybe you were really too needy in a sense or smothering?  I hope this doesn't sound off any alarms for anyone.  I'm back in the stage of wondering just what is wrong with me?

Gee Solo, maybe you should go back to that website he sent you and learn how to please a man without regard for your own feelings and sensitivities.

 
just kidding

But maybe you should take a look and remember that total catering to his needs is what it would take to keep the marriage working for him. Being "too sensitive" to your own needs for more than a nanosecond will tip the scales to disaster again. Do you really miss that?

[eyes_up]

Solo, I heard those words "it's all about you" and they were mere projections. So much so ...Sheesh. if I dared show even a hint of healthy narcissism, an express of needs ... well then it was all about me. I bought it then and felt bad like i was too this or too that. Well, I don't buy it now that is all I can tell you.

It was my experience of feeling extra needy and extra seemingly dependent and why was that?

Because normal amounts of give and take, actual shared energy and reciprocation never existed. My being was starving. I am mostly an independent person. But apparently if I spend time with a blood sucker I get extraordinarily needy and why would I ... I am being robbed and the other person is taking all.

So that is the way I see it.

There is no clear determination on the spectrum of neediness meaning... every one has needs. That is the first thing to just know. So, if those needs were not being met and all the narcs needs were being met then no matter what there is a deficit. There is no way to tell if you as a basic human being were truly needing to the point of expecting some one else or others to take care of all of them.

I felt incredibly needy during the relationship. After about a year after the break up that neediness declined - slowly but surely. You have 3 months down and it would be understandable that things have not cleared yet.

Hang in there. Attempt to catch all internal messages that are derivative of narc-ness. Those messages will point at something wrong with you. We have to leave the narcissist and then have to step by step get rid of all the head stuff. that takes time. The habitual state takes time to unwind. Time to reprogram the computer. If the messages are linked up with childhood messages then it may take longer.

For me the messages the narc created and implanted attached to childhood messages so I had a huge program that needed to be trashed. Those kinds of programs take a lot of time and do not serve ones health and well being.

eyes



 

[Freezer Burned]

Solo,

Even if he wasn't an N, why would you want to devote your life to someone who is uncomfortable with affection and "together time"? That is more like roomates than marriage.

Ns get smothered and annoyed by affection because they are shallow and can't appreciate it, but only attention and admiration.

Even if a relationship turns out bad, breaking up is losing the dream of what you were expecting it to be. And every loss causes grief.

[betterdays]

Sensitive is good, in reasonable amounts. It does not break up a marriage.

"I was SUFFERING.  I'm not now.  I AM in pain however." --Solo

Is this pain similar to pulling a rotten tooth?  That hurts for quite a while.

If you write down actual events and statements, not how you felt, you'll see that a real N looks crazy even on paper.

[~Solo]

Better Days - TY!  Love the analogy about the rotten tooth!  Also, I do have the ability to go back and read what I have written on here, right?  Maybe it's time!

FB - TY! It's so amazing to me that I WOULD want to stay with him for life, even after he turned away from me (head scratch?)...  I did always tell him we were looking more like roommates.  I know that's something I need to look into (not a roommate but why I accepted that!!).

Eyes - TY!  I can relate to what you said about being pretty independent.  When I tell friends I have known for 30 years that he said I am not independent and I'm actually needy, they're like, "He does not see you".  And as for the childhood stuff, I'm sure my father was an N.    Looks like I will be a busy girl....

Litha - TY!  No, i don't really want that.  I guess it's all of the N-chantment that we hear about.  While I don't think I'm in that thick fog anymore, the residual effects are still here.  Love the laughing smiley....made me giggle.  Yeah, nice website!  We should all get right on it, huh?   

Well, sincere thanks to all again! 

Time seems to be the only thing I can count on right now to disable this connection I had to him. 

Sometimes, I feel as if there is just NO WAY to convey the ABSOLUTE PAIN I'm in.  I look at other people on the streets, driving in their cars, shopping or whatever and I wonder who else feels this bad.  No one knows if they do.  We are forced to be strong in this world and not lean too hard.  It's almost like being invisible when you hurt. 

I think it's times like this when people do their most beautiful work (like artists!).  I guess that's better than the alternative!

~Solo
 

p.s. is something wrong with everyone's icons?  Most of them show question marks instead of the icons.  I have only a few working.....


 

[yesIam]

I look at other people on the streets, driving in their cars, shopping or whatever and I wonder who else feels this bad.  No one knows if they do.  We are forced to be strong in this world and not lean too hard.  It's almost like being invisible when you hurt.  

Solo, I just had to log in and comment on this.  I have never heard anyone else express it, but I have had this thought, too.  How many people are suffering and in pain?  Who do we drive past that is feeling heartbreak and alienation?  Somehow, reading that someone else thinks this way was an incredible experience for me.

I think that is the thought of a very empathic, caring, and loving person.  And also one who is in a lot of emotional pain.

The second thoughts are seriously so normal.  When some of the acute agony and distress begins to recede, it's just easy to start wondering "was it really that bad?"  And also, my therapist pointed out to me that my ability to see his side and to wonder if I was being totally honest in my understanding of the relationship...is the behavior of a person with a lot of integrity (a person who wishes to be integrated, honest, and whole).  And also, she says, it's a part of being somewhat introverted and definitely a part of being empathic.

Empathic people may be born, somewhat, but they are also made...it's a possible outcome of a FOO where we learned to predict others' moods.  Conditioning, that "walking on eggshells" feeling.  I believe it starts young and in order to be a good eggshell walker, we have to be sensitive and have an overdeveloped empathic ability.

I don't remember all of your story, but I do remember your saying your XH was physically aggressive and threatening toward you.  I'd suggest, when you are feeling the discombobulation stuff--second thoughts, as you say--that you focus on this behavior.  It's much more concrete than the subtle, nuanced behavior that makes you doubt yourself.

Because no matter what you are or aren't, there is never an excuse for abuse.  Emotional abuse is just so much more difficult to put a finger on, isn't it?  

You also have the added benefit (term used loosely) of a firm diagnosis.  Whatever your XH has going for him, whatever doubts you have about your role in the whole thing, there's no doubt that this man was messed up before you met him, he was messed up when you were with him, and he'll continue to be messed up without you.

Peace and   to you.  The self-doubt part is the most difficult part of the entire process, in my experience.

[Litha]

Sometimes, I feel as if there is just NO WAY to convey the ABSOLUTE PAIN I'm in.  I look at other people on the streets, driving in their cars, shopping or whatever and I wonder who else feels this bad.  No one knows if they do.  We are forced to be strong in this world and not lean too hard.  It's almost like being invisible when you hurt. 

I think it's times like this when people do their most beautiful work (like artists!).  I guess that's better than the alternative!

Have you ever spent time on the music board here? That last line is very true, some of the best music in history was created from grief, sorrow, heartache. Listening to that music helps me to feel connected to someone else who was hurting enough to write the song. Makes me feel less alone in my hurt.

The artist Beck created (arguably) the best album of his career after a breakup. His long term girlfriend was cheating on him, and utterly broke his heart. Some sources say he wrote all the songs for Sea Change in the week after the breakup. I posted a couple of those songs on the board here, Lost Cause was a WoN hit.

hang in there!
 
Litha

[CZBZ]

" "This isn't all you.  I have histrionic personality disorder and NPD".    Then to go right back into the behavior....AFTER asking me to try and love him even though he doesn't know who HE is????  lalalalal - crazy!" ~Solo


This is one of the problems we face IF we have a diagnosis. It's the 'downside' to the 'upside' of an official diagnosis. The narcissist uses his diagnosis as an 'excuse', blaming his mental condition as the cause of his lousy behavior. The problem for a partner is our empathy and compassion at this point and the narcissist is fully aware that we'll react this way. We might even berate ourselves for not being more understanding and compassionate, considering the problems the narcissist faces with his disordered personality. What helps though, is learning how the narcissistic personality works so we can avoid being drawn into their disorder, too!

In some circumstances, a diagnosis is very helpful because people realize they have a mood disorder or obsessive, compulsive behaviors and they can 'catch themselves in the act' and question how they are affecting other people. The Narcissistic Disorder however, functions though 'projection', denial, blame, depreciating the other person to make themselves feel superior and 'better' than they. Like accusing someone of being too sensitive instead of examining their INSENSITIVITY as the problem!

It's common enough for narcissists to admit to having issues though it doesn't lead to changed behavior the way it does for most people who are not narcissistic. I think it's because none of us likes seeing our 'shadow side', the things we do that make us uncomfortable with ourselves. It makes us feel guilty and lucky for us, we can tolerate feeling guilty long enough to experience the deep pain of remorse which always always leads to changed behavior. Maybe not in all cases but probably in most, the pain we tolerate and work through is the 'key' to self-awareness and freedom.

It's very confusing for 'non-Ns'  to relate to narcissists. We can't understand HOW they could continue doing the things they do once they 'catch themselves in the act'. We expect them to change once they realize what they are doing is hurting other people! and they don't. And we can't understand it. It is extremely difficult for narcissists to change the way they relate to the world, to us, and to themselves. IT's not a job for the average 'non'. It's a job for experienced therapists and even then, there may never be the kind of change that makes a narcissist 'street safe'. ha!

Remember that when the narcissist is asking you to 'love him' (maybe even unconditionally, a real tip-off that you're dealing with a narcissist), he is expressing Entitlement. He expects to be loved no matter what he does which is a childish perception, not an adult's. Do you expect someone to love you if you treat them like doggie-doo? Of course not! But a narcissist does!

I've read a lot of writings by narcissists (Tony Brown, who has passed away now) and it always shocked me how they expected a partner to love them no matter what they did---especially if they had a diagnosis and said they couldn't help themselves. If we, as Nons', do that, we are basically functioning in a one-way relationship because the N does NOT love us unconditionally, o no! We are held to standards that are impossible for any human being to fulfill and the least little thing brings down the wrath of the Gawd-awful-N....the N who does NOT love other people unconditionally but expects them to love him without limits.

So while it's useful to have a diagnosis so you can better understand what happened during your relationship with the narcissist, the 'diagnosis' only becomes ammunition for the narcissists arsenal. He acts like an idiot and we get angry and he tells us we're being too sensitive and UNLOVING because we won't overlook his abusive behavior and then we feel guilty for not being more understanding so we try harder and harder to love the narcissist no matter what he does 'cuz he can't help himself and pretty soon, life becomes meaningless, hopeless and we feel like servants bringing love on a silver platter to the narcissist who will cut off our heads if that love is not befitting the king.

So Solo, the fact that you can suffer, and feel incredible pain, and tolerate the grief of 'love lost', is a blessing. Narcissists cannot do that! If they could mourn and grieve as normal folks do, they might be able to break through their defenses and change, truly change, from the inside-out. Narcissists might manifest change externally, which fools a lot of people into believing they aren't Ns, but inside themselves, they are hatin' every minute of it. To a narcissist, they maintain external changes to Please Other People who make 'em do that! At some point, they resent those other people so much that they get their revenge. If narcissists changed from the inside-out, they would 'thank' other people for loving them more than they deserved. They wouldn't view other people as holding them hostage to their 'facade', they would be grateful for someone helping them see the destructive impact of their behavior.


Hugs,
CZ

[SusyP14]

Sometimes, I feel as if there is just NO WAY to convey the ABSOLUTE PAIN I'm in.  I look at other people on the streets, driving in their cars, shopping or whatever and I wonder who else feels this bad.  No one knows if they do. ~Solo

I did not know about this board or even Narcissism when I was at my weakest, most confused state. Wondering what was going on? What had happened to me? How he could toss me like I was a used kleenex? After everything I had done for him, after I had been so good to him. Didn't that count for anything? But sadly the answer is no. There is no acrument of goodwill in the bank of a pathologically self involved individual. Everything you do for them, you should have done more. You are never good enough. Nothing is ever good enough. They would find fault with a 22 year old Victoria Secret model with 22 million dollars in the bank.

I have never been in such a state of pain in my life. I thought I would die of the heart break. I thought this man was my soulmate that I had found the love of my life and instead I had to face the fact that he was a cruel, cheating, lying, gaslighting vampire that confidently wore the mask of sanity. I would sit on my couch and cry and I could think of nothing but him. Over and over and over. There was never a moment of peace.

The break up was just the beginning of facing a lifetime of bad choices and a horrifying fear of abandonment. It has been a long and rocky road. I will be so happy when your divorce is final and you can start with zero contact because as long as you are dealing with them, they will always be dangling carrots and confusing you.  The only thing that I know that saved me from drowning in a sea of sorrow was refusing to allow him access to me and my emotions.

[LettingGo]

 

I will be so happy when your divorce is final and you can start with zero contact because as long as you are dealing with them, they will always be dangling carrots and confusing you.  The only thing that I know that saved me from drowning in a sea of sorrow was refusing to allow him access to me and my emotions.~Susy

I am looking forward to the day you will have NC w/this NVamp. He has stolen so much from you my dear lady and any contact, any reply is supply for a N, because as long as you have contact you care enough to reply and that is supply for a N. You must starve the Vamp and deny him access to your emotions. I believe that you are in a state of purging and when things are finalized in black and white you can say, okay this part of my life is done and over with, I have talked about it, cried about it, healed from it and I am moving on ward.  Here is to forging your own path away from the KON.

[~Solo]

The N's enCAPTURE us into their world, their fantasies & dreams of which THEY are not able to make happen.. but do not allow yourself to shut down, you CAN dream & make those dreams happen, - N this time... You can still LOVE, this time the ones you love will be ok with loving you back.  THAT is what was missing.. this allergicness of the XN to be free to love, commit, push through.
Keep on dreaming, loving, being YOU.  It takes time.. to heal.  

SEFG - This is so true.  I was 'captured', literally.  He won me over as if I was some sort of prize to just toss into a heap of other ol prizes that are in the back of his dark dusty closet.  Then, off to win another prize.  It disgusts me and saddens me that I'm not moving forward fast enough.  And as far as shutting down, I never knew it possible to shut down, but realize I have in some respects.  The part that hurts is that I saw the future even through the tough stuff.  Thank you for your kind words and encouragement...

~Solo
 

[~Solo]

Remember that when the narcissist is asking you to 'love him' (maybe even unconditionally, a real tip-off that you're dealing with a narcissist), he is expressing Entitlement. He expects to be loved no matter what he does which is a childish perception, not an adult's. Do you expect someone to love you if you treat them like doggie-doo? Of course not! But a narcissist does!

 At some point, they resent those other people so much that they get their revenge. If narcissists changed from the inside-out, they would 'thank' other people for loving them more than they deserved. They wouldn't view other people as holding them hostage to their 'facade', they would be grateful for someone helping them see the destructive impact of their behavior.


Hugs,
CZ

CZ - Thank you.  I never saw 'that' part (asking for love) of him before he told me of his diagnosis.  He seemed so sincere yet non-committal still while saying in a very timid and difficult to get out way, "Maybe you can try to love me in this state of who I am, which I don't even know who that is?".  It was a last ditch effort to keep me inside of the crazy spell I guess.  Most times it's hard to make any sense of just what happened between us.  I do know that I don't have confusing conversations and read into anything else the way I did when we were together.

He did say to me a couple times that I didn't even know him.  We had the ongoing problem of him being overly social and apparently romantic others had the same problem with him.  So, I brought it up a couple times and he said that he didn't even like people.  That was so baffling.  But reading what you said puts it together.  He needed people.  He didn't want to, but he does.  I do think he did try for a while and especially since he knew about his diagnosis before me, but it became just too unbearable.  The dam just broke.... I remember something he said early on while we were sitting together.  In his deliriously attractive way, looking into my eyes with a big adoring smile, he said, "I really want this to work".  I found that to be an odd statement.  THAT would go without saying.  He sort of tipped himself off with that one!

~Solo
  



 

[LettingGo]

This is one of the problems we face IF we have a diagnosis. It's the 'downside' to the 'upside' of an official diagnosis. The narcissist uses his diagnosis as an 'excuse', blaming his mental condition as the cause of his lousy behavior.~CZ

Yikes! an official dx for a N -- that is  In the N-human mind the N has just been given a License to Abuse. It is like giving a murder a loaded gun and telling him don't pull the trigger and when he does, he blames others saying it was your fault you gave me the gun and I am simply doing what is expected of me.

The Momster has an official dx of Bi Polar and wears it proudly as her License to Abuse. Mood disorders can be controlled by meds, which her meds don't prevent her from being abusive, thus the meds are not working, and the dx is wrong. Has any doc in all these years asked to do a follow up w/her kids to see if we have noticed a change for the better -- no -- not that we know of. They just rather do their less than 5 minute assessment, write the med order and collect their fees.

When the N has an official License to Abuse you can not allow them to N-trap you w/your own empathy. It is like those murders who kill their children and spouses and say feel sorry for me I have a mental disorder I couldn't help myself. This is a lie. They can control their behavior and they do, they only abuse certain people. If they couldn't control their behavior they would abuse everyone, but they don't.

[~Solo]

I have never been in such a state of pain in my life. I thought I would die of the heart break. I thought this man was my soulmate that I had found the love of my life and instead I had to face the fact that he was a cruel, cheating, lying, gaslighting vampire that confidently wore the mask of sanity. I would sit on my couch and cry and I could think of nothing but him. Over and over and over. There was never a moment of peace.

The break up was just the beginning of facing a lifetime of bad choices and a horrifying fear of abandonment. It has been a long and rocky road. I will be so happy when your divorce is final and you can start with zero contact because as long as you are dealing with them, they will always be dangling carrots and confusing you.  The only thing that I know that saved me from drowning in a sea of sorrow was refusing to allow him access to me and my emotions.

Susy - Why is it that so many men are like this?  I mean seriously?  Are we destined to have weaker men, or what we are taught is weaker, just so that we can avoid getting caught up in the breeding scam?  ha! lol...  Really, that's what it comes down to.  We are taught to pick strong men for breeding.  There is so much going on chemically that we don't even know and then top THIS (N-ism) on it! 

Seriously though, sorry for your heartache... We all have such different circumstances but similar outcomes.  We all hurt beyond what we should.  I'm still reading both the books, slowly at night.  I switch back and forth from Streams, Women who love too much, Escape from Intimacy and Letting go.  Funny, huh?  I like to take different bits from each at a time.  Seems to be therapeutic.

I definitely think NC will be the best thing once divorce is over.  I have never had difficulty sleeping really.  Now, since I have been emailing with him while trying to come up with a settlement agreement, I've been unable to sleep sometimes till 1:30!  The other night took the cake - 4;00 am!!!!  When I put him out of my mind, it was much better.  I guess when I see his emails, they are fine, not rude, we're in a better place, but they are distant and business-like and I start thinking, "Maybe I ruined this?  Look how reasonable he seems"...kind of thing.  It takes strength to pull back and go to the bad thoughts to reinforce why I left.  I'm definitely not dealing with dangling carrots with him which at times makes me doubt his diagnosis.  crazy...

~Solo
 

[~Solo]

  I believe that you are in a state of purging and when things are finalized in black and white you can say, okay this part of my life is done and over with, I have talked about it, cried about it, healed from it and I am moving on ward.  Here is to forging your own path away from the KON.

Letting Go - Cheers sister!!!!     Thank you... 
~Solo
 

[LettingGo]

distant and business-like and I start thinking, "Maybe I ruined this?  Look how reasonable he seems"...kind of thing.
Have you created your Dirty Laundry List of all the horrible things N has done and said? If not, it would be a great thing to do for your Self. Getting it all out in black and white will stop the Cognitive Dissonance that is going on in your mind. He is being distant and business-like not kind caring and remorseful. Okay, Solo your homework assignment for this weekend is to make a list by completing this sentence, N ruined this relationship by. . . . .
keep writing until you can not write any more.

I do believe that N men, like other men, have a biological need to spread their seed and reproduce. There are great men out there, but women need to redefine what constitutes a great man. We must educate our children about the red flags, so that when they see them they can wave a instead of wanting to put on the Super Woman cape and save the N. I believe that most woman who are N-chanted by a N had at least one Nparent and are trying desperately to get the love from the Nspouse that they never had from the Nparent. I would also hypothesize that there is a strong correlation between having a Nparent and the duration of the N-chantment. Human beings do not do well w/unfinished business. We need closure to move on and when you have a Nparent there is no closure, so it is extremely difficult to move on, but it is not impossible! I wonder if we did an informal survey here at WoN how many people who married or dated an N came from a loving FOO where both parents were kind nurturing people.