Please tell us a little bit about yourself!

[changedspirit]

hey elle this is a HUGE BIG step.  u have logged into a lifeline.....just read alot and write when u can/need to   it's a process which we are all going through.  welcome.....i have been married to N for 32 and 1/2 years and i finally get it.  it takes a long time to begin to untangle the web so be prepared to take baby steps and don't think "rome was rebuilt in a day"................u will find untold resources and wisdom here.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Welcome to WoN, Elle! Many members of this forum were in long term relationships, so you are in good company on that point. Many members of our forum also tried to teach their partners and encourage their partners to change. Many members finally realized the only gains being made towards becoming a better person, were THER hard-earned gains. Gains they earned while struggling to cope with the narcissist. All is not lost, we are proof of that. We can and do GROW in spite of the situation and sadly, narcissists do not 'mirror' that behavior!

Narcissists can become extremely aggressive and even more mean-spirited when we mature and they do not. The only way for a narcissist to restore his or her sense of superiority over us, is to Put Us Down. Which they have perfected to an artform over a lifetime of effort. Now if they'd only put that much effort observing people and manipulating them, INTO observing themselves, right?

When we finally call it quits, most of us have gained valuable skills and traits we didn't appreciate when we were in the relationship because quite often, those skills-and-traits are distorted or demeaned. This healing journey is not without it's rewards.

Love,
Charlotte
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[drcs64]

It has taken me months to get the courage to post   I am married to what I believe is an N.  In looking on the internet to find something to help me deal with the emotional abuse that I have taken over the years and that was when I came across information on NPD and it was like someone was living with my husband sat down and wrote a book pretty much about our lives.  We have our own business and it is based out of our farm and I work at home doing the bookwork and anything else that needs to be done, I also run a horse boarding business here at the farm so picking up and leaving would be very difficult - at least that is what I keep telling myself.  We have 2 children, ages 16 and 19 that still live at home.  He is estranged from all of his family for the past 5 years, refuses any contact with them and has a very limited circle of friends.  When we first met he was like a knight in shining armour and had come to save me because I had just gotten out of a physically abusive relationship in which I was engaged - guess I really know how to pick them LOL  It has gone steadily down hill over the years to the point that we no longer sleep in the same bed, we don't sit in the same room to watch tv and he barely acknowledges my existence other than to "suit his needs".  My children know that the relationship isn't good and have said that they would support me in any decision that I make but I can't seem to wrap my brain around getting out of here.  When we married, I quit my job and moved to a new country, 350 miles from my family.  I have lots of friends up here that would be there for support but not much else in the line of somewhere to turn.  I don't know it is one of those days and I really needed somewhere to vent and I am afraid if I keep singing the same sorrow story to all my friends but I am unwilling to change it that they will get sick of hearing it and won't be around anymore.  So here I am

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Dear drcs64,

Bravo for posting! It isn't easy sharing your story with other people. Even if you feel connected to the people on WoN, the difficulty in sharing your story is that it becomes 'real'. Somehow, putting words on a message makes our experience true. It's the first step towards restoring your 'peace'. You can't find solutions if you don't admit to having problems. So writing it out on a message is a positive first step. You are breaking through your fear by admitting you have a problem. Until we speak out, we resist the truth with denial, minimization, distractions---numerous defenses to protect ourselves from pain.

WoN is a great place to get started learning about NPD and understanding how you can protect yourself from the narcissist's relentless need to put YOU down to build himself UP. Overtime, we might believe we are helpless. That there is nothing we can do to improve our lives because we are so 'weak' or 'inferior'. Those thoughts might stem from childhood but they can also be the result of the N-relationship. Without realizing it, we have been rejected, even subtly. We may not be able to define it exactly but we know in our hearts that we are not meeting our partner's expectations and that makes us feel bad and that makes us try harder. You can see why it works to the narcissist's advantage to keep his or her partner 'unsettled', right? As long as we are trying harder to connect with the narcissist, the narcissist is getting the benefit of our attention and time without obligation to reciprocate. We try harder and they don't and the relationship can drag on for years, until we are completely exhausted or even 'indifferent'. We no long try because we know it's pointless. INstead of knowing the problem is with the N, we unfortunately believe the problem is with ourselves. I believe WoN will be able to help you work through this 'lie' and help you feel good about yourself...good enough to demand a partner who will not dole out affection and love like 'golden crumbs'.

Join us on the General Board when you feel comfortable, drcs64. We are glad you are here.  

Love,
Charlotte
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[Ladywolf]

Wow!  I love the real love and support of this place.  I will try and stick to the rules...please forgive me if I don't remember them all.

I was just going to write about my exN because he just packed me up and took me to my old apartment about 1 1/2 weeks ago and the pain is raw and fresh.  My head is spinning.  My xN actually is in therapy and was tested and bragged to me about being a narcissist.  If he knew what one was, I don't think he would have been bragging.  But perhaps maybe he thought that meant that was special.  The thing about this is, is that I know what a narcissist is you see, because my mother is one. 

Now wouldn't you think that someone that survived childhood being raised by an Nmom wouldn't run screaming away?  So what kept me there?  We were in a type of honeymoon stage and I allowed him to wrap me up in an invisible silk dress and was so...well, he acted soooo loving.  And boy was I ready to give him some NS.  And I did.  I put up with his OCD, Bipolar and on and off gf while we were together.  He went back to her after he dropped me and the cats off.

There were so many of those red flags that I probably had to move some of them out of the way to continue the relationship.  But things started to change.  When I wore makeup he would say I looked like a ****.  He threated (jokingly) to decapitate my cats (that's just something you don't joke about).

He is a pedophile survivor.  This is the ex he went back to.  He was 13 when he met her and she was 32.  He's got a lot of other issues besides the N and when he said I'm going to pack you up tomorrow and take you back to your place, I hadn't done anything wrong.  I guess he just wanted to get back with his ex..

this healing is harder than others.  I nave NC with him and eventhough I know it is suppose to get easier, the number just goes up a day.  I think about him all the time and how every loving gesture was an act for his benefit.

With my mom, I have skills with dealing with her.  With this N, it's so march harder.

And seductive...I am a lesbian and he was so seductive that I had a relationship with him.  He came on strong and now I don't exist to him.

I hope that I get and can share as I get to know this board about this stuff because with my Nmom, I thought I had it down pat.

Thank you all for reading this and please feel free to reply with feedback or support.

I thank you all for being here.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

 Hello Ladywolf,



You've been learning about Narcissism for awhile, it appears from your message. Once you understand how opportunistic narcissists are and you let this horrible truth sink deep within yourself, you begin the long journey of healing. We can learn the facts, memorize the statistics, study and research mental disorders but we must work through the emotional aftermath of the narcissistic relationship. It might take a long time, too...no matter how much we'd like to 'beat the statistics', healing from narcissistic abuse is not a quick process. It takes time and due diligence to the process. But you are worth it. We all are.

Welcome to WoN...I truly hope you find the information and the support you need!

Love,
Charlotte
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[Ladywolf]

 

Thanks for the reply.  I know the healing will take a long time.  I'm at the stage that when I just think of him, my stomach turns.  I'd rather my stomach turn than have an urge to call him (I hope I never hear his voice again).

It's nice to know that I can reflect back on certain situations that happened and recognize the subtle abuse and its escalation.

I think I will look around and read some on what other folks went through just as a kind of validation thing...I feel I need that right now in my healing.

My saving salvation is that during the relationship, my sister and I who are very close, wanted me to move closer to family and grabbed at the chance.  I think that will be a part of the healing process.  Knowing I will be around my sister and her family who are very genuinely loving.  I wish I was there already but won't be ready to move for another 5 weeks.


Maybe what I went through was practice to be around my mom again (I have very low contact with her).  Who knows.

Thanks again for reading.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Dear Ladywolf,


Take your time. That's why this forum is here. Reading can be a useful way to 'sneak up on your life'. It's never easy for anyone to accept the dismal truth about pathological narcissism. We'd like to believe with all our hearts, that our relationship is 'different'. That the narcissist driving us to learn about personality disorders is 'not so bad', not nearly as bad as those other narcissists people are writing about. Sometimes, that's true! Most times, it's not.

Because of this fact, please be cautious in all your financial dealings with the narc-in-question. Please stop investing your emotional energy in him. Put your precious ability to 'hope' towards yourself and give up HOPE that something you say or do or read will cure his self-centeredness. Even if the narc-in-question turns out to be 'slightly' narcissistic, keeping your focus on YOU is healthy advice for any relationship. It's so easy to invade someone else's boundaries when they aren't behaving the way we'd like them to. 

And it's funny BUT oftentimes, respecting someone else's boundaries makes it easier to recognize and respect our own. Learn what you can about healthy relationships but also learn whatever you can stomach about unhealthy relationships. You will find a lot of people on WoN who are willing to write about their unhealthy/pathological relationship which is a true blessing to other people who may see 'themselves' in their stories. The more of us who refuse to put up with narcissistic abuse, the healthier our entire world will be (especially our children!). This is a learning time for everyone and a 'doing' time, too.

It isn't easy.

Love,
Charlotte!
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[Dandelion]

I'm a Danish woman, 44 years old and only a few years ago discovered that my dad most likely has NPD. I always knew he was an violent abusive arse, but that he could be diagnosed was new to me. What a relief 

I moved away from him (my mum died 20 years ago from alcoholism) 8 years ago and married a wonderful guy which changed my status all of a sudden. From being a GC (no siblings) to being an ungrateful, unloving snake and the veil dropped from my eyes. I saw how enmeshed I was (love the word enmesh, it sounds like what it is) and always have been and I was able to go NC 5 years ago much to his dismay.
My new family immidiately took on being buffer and that worked until last year where he was so verbally abusive to my inlaws that I had to call the police and put an end to all contact.

My take on being ACON is that just like when you're missing a leg, you can't grow it back, you have to find out how to live your life fully despite. And when we succeed in doing that we are true heroes in our own lives. 

Looking forward to getting to know you all and share our ups and downs!

Yours truly
Mette

[notakennedy]

To All Newcomers:

It can be very confusing when you first join a new community, especially when you are already confused by the person you 'think' might qualify for a NPD diagnosis. It's very hard to pinpoint pathological narcissism BEFORE you are attached to to someone. Before you have invested emotionally in the relationship.

It's also common for people to feel an 'intuitive tug' that something is not quite right and yet, without a basis in psychology, we can't quite put words to our feelings.

You will find good friends on WoN and a lot of information about narcissism, maybe more than you ever wanted to know. We have an amazing group of wise people who have faced the N-demoN and survived, if not 'thrived'.

We'd like to get to know you, too. But only when you feel comfortable telling us a little bit about yourself. What pushed you into cyberspace looking for answers? What has been going on in your relationship? (Please reveal what you are comfortable revealing. We respect your boundaries on sensitive issues!)

If you would like to introduce yourself on this thread, that would be WoNderful. Just click on the far right TAB that says "Reply" and your comments will be added to this ongoing thread.

If you prefer posting your story or comments or "HI!" on a separate thread, go HERE and click on the far right tab that says, NEW TOPIC.

A window will pop-up so you can write your comments. When you have finished, click POST at the bottom of the window.

 

Welcome to WoN. You've found a very special group on the Web.
I daresay it's the only BARN in cyberspace where spiders are welcome. I oughta know.  

Love,
Charlotte
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[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

"I always knew he was an violent abusive arse, but that he could be diagnosed was new to me. What a relief!"~Mette

Isn't it, though?! Yes, what a relief to know that the violent arse we can 'dad' is not considered to be NORMAL. What a relief to know that abuse and violence, self-centeredness and egotism, ruthlessness, irresponsibility, selfishness and cruelty towards others is NOT NORMAL. Aren't you glad to find that out? To know that the psychological community is not suggesting your father (or narcissists like him) are just like the rest of us! Rest assured, Mette, they are NOT.

I also appreciate this comment you made: "being ACON is that just like when you're missing a leg, you can't grow it back, you have to find out how to live your life fully despite. And when we succeed in doing that we are true heroes in our own lives." This is beautiful and this is very, very true!

We are not to blame for what our parents did to us when we were children. We are responsible for what we do with our lives now that we're adults. At some point, we work through ourfeelings of blame and accept where we are today, how we are today, what we can do to make our lives better today.

Thank goodness a narcissistic parent lacks enough power to destroy his or her children.  

Welcome!

Love,
Charlotte
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[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Hi Notakennedy!  You're in New Zealand, right? Welcome to WoN!

Love,
Charlotte
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[notakennedy]

Hi, Charlotte
Yes, I am 'downunder' - I live in Auckland City, in a western suburb called Titirangi (Maori for 'The Fringe of Heaven'), situated in the foothills of the Waitakere Ranges which are basically a rainforest - I say suburb but it's not suburbia at all, it's city outskirts, native bush, beautiful walking tracks, lots of creative and alternative people live there. I'm 53, I have 3 adult children, 3 adult step children courtesy of my N,  with 1 of my daughters and her 4 little girls living with me at the moment because she escaped her own hell-narcissist and fled the States to come home here 3 years ago .. I was first married at 19 and that lasted 18 years.  Not to a narcissist but to a man I was not really in love with. I was on my own for a whole 6 months when I met my N and we have now been together 15 years (married for 11). He was also married for about 15 years and interestingly enough, how he describes his first wife is now how he describes marriage to me! I see a pattern emerging?  I work in an administration role, and am a part time artist, portraits are my thing plus I play a little guitar for fun. I like alternative philosophies, currently studying Satyananda Yoga.  Hugely involved in my granddaughters' lives - one has Aspergers and one has Attention Deficit Disorder.  Marriage to my N is hard work (that is the understatement of the century).  He was clearly identified to me as an N when my psychotherapist listened for me for about 5 minutes said "Google Malignant Self Love by Sam Vaknin.." - before that I was pretty sure I was either going mad or that I was a seething mess of insecurities and other issues ... . I started to see the light about that time.  However as I was still very much co-dependent on him and 'in love', I wasn't convinced, I was still making all sorts of excuses for him and putting up with stuff no woman should ever put up with. The lovely times (and there have been some) started to get fewer and fewer between or perhaps the shades were coming off gradually and the illusion fading, and the ugliness more apparent.  Typically he says his outbursts and behaviour are a 'result of my insecurities'. Oh he must be a desperately unhappy and angry person. Product of an overbearing mother?  His catch phrase is "LET ME HAVE MY SAY!!!!"  Of course, whatever anyone else has to say is irrelevant. Today I am somewhat unmoved by his theatricals and embarrassed by his public performances. But I haven't quite arrived at the point where I can say enough is enough and leave. ... thank you for welcoming me to your wonderful forum.

[Osa]

I've been lurking here for a few weeks while I learn more about narcissism. 

I'm a nearly-40 gal struggling in my marriage and career, and I'm coming to a realization that my father is an N, my husband is an N, my parents-in-law are raging Ns, and I have no idea who I am or what I want in the world.  Except that's not entirely true, because I just got myself a new job, and I told my NH that I am moving out.  I'm in a vacillating and sad place.  I'm trying to hold my seat and feel my feelings, which I've spent the last umpteen years trying to suppress as impediments to getting things done, but I'm having a hard time.  Ugh, there's a lot bottled up in there and it's starting to spew out faster, which is a bit unnerving.  I'm trying to take responsibility for what is mine and leave other people's stuff to them, but I think I probably grew up thinking that *everything* was mine (or my fault, at least, when it wasn't going well), so I can tell it's going to be a long road to even know what is Me and what is NotMe.  I am trying to recall (or learn, or imagine and trust) that my feelings are actually my allies, they are a great way for me to know more about my reality.

I just wanted to say "hi" and express how grateful I am to have found this place and to hear other people's stories.  Thanks to the new folks sharing shock and pain, more seasoned folks sharing wisdom and humor.  I appreciate the variety I see.....

-Osa

[inflatedheart]

I',m 55 and I feel like my life is over.  I feel very trapped and I need to get out of this hellhole.  My husband is a serial rapist out on parole.  He's a phycopath NPD.  I didn't know all this when we married 7.5 years ago.  He's sucked out my life, consumed me and I don't know how to get out.  My closest friends don't believe me when I try to tell them what a monster he is and how his incredible emotional, verbal, and mental abuse crosses all the lines into bazaar.  I have no money, no place to go, and I see no way out.  I don't know anyone that can help me leave and provide for me for a while till I can get a job, (in this economy, and I haven't worked for 7 years ? ? ?). I'm scared of what to do and afterwards.  I'm in disbelief and so angry at myself that I didn't see or recognize what he is before.  I'm so angry that nobody else did either.  He's a master actor, and even now, I don't understand why his "friends" don't see it.  Does the NPD, phycopath, ever get caught?  I need some practical answers, directions and plans.  There's so much more dynamics, but this is things in a nutshell for starters.

Sher, remember to be kind to yourself.  Your guilt implicitly suggests that you deserved it because you weren't more aware. No one deserves to be abused, ever. It is utterly and totally the N's fault for everything. Like you said, they're very good actors and they are the most cunning of charmers. No one ever intends to be in that kind of relationship. Just remember that you don't have ownership or control over the N's behavior. It is never your fault.
In regards to getting yourself out, have you considered seeking help at a local domestic violence organization? Many have "one stop shopping" for people in abusive relationships/with abusive partners and are very aware of N dynamics. They can provide a place to live, food, clothing, transportation and job assistance, legal counsel/aid as well as mental health support. The DV advocates WILL believe you (I used to be one).  A simple google search on the internet can help you find some place or at least get you started with a referral.

[inflatedheart]

I have no idea who I am or what I want in the world.  Except that's not entirely true, because I just got myself a new job, and I told my NH that I am moving out.  I'm in a vacillating and sad place.  I'm trying to hold my seat and feel my feelings, which I've spent the last umpteen years trying to suppress as impediments to getting things done, but I'm having a hard time.  Ugh, there's a lot bottled up in there and it's starting to spew out faster, which is a bit unnerving.  I'm trying to take responsibility for what is mine and leave other people's stuff to them, but I think I probably grew up thinking that *everything* was mine (or my fault, at least, when it wasn't going well), so I can tell it's going to be a long road to even know what is Me and what is NotMe.  I am trying to recall (or learn, or imagine and trust) that my feelings are actually my allies, they are a great way for me to know more about my reality.

Osa: I came from a whole family of N's and growing up, I had no idea who I was all about or what I wanted either. So you're definitely not alone in that respect!   I was so used to giving N's what they wanted and attending to their ambitions/wants/needs. As a result, I never developed my own, separate identity. I learned as I went through therapy to develop my own insights and opinions and make choices that were good for me and my life. The first step was acknowledging that I had a lot thrown onto my plate and that everyone expected me to take care of their problems and feelings. In doing so, I was able to learn what is "mine" and what is "theirs". As you start finding outlets for your anger, resentment and sorrow (therapy, journaling, visiting and writing on this site etc.), you're going to find your authentic feelings along the way. The best thing I ever learned from my therapist was the ability to ask myself, "why am I feeling _____ emotion?" I made me think and stop and feel the emotion fully, instead of stuffing it away and putting on a happy face, as I have always been expected to do. It takes time and I think everyone here on WoN will agree that we're all still working on it and will probably always will be. "Even the longest journey begins with a single step" --Push, by Sapphire.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Greetings Osa! Nice to have you join our group!

If you grew up with narcissistic parents, it's pretty 'normal' to have feel disconnected from yourself. As if there are parts of you that were tucked in a closet for years because it wasn't SAFE or PROPER to be your 'true self'. The one that sometimes defied her parent's wishes...the one that tried to be the woman her husbaNd expected her to be. The one that put her own self-interests on the backburner while tending to everyone else's.

As painful and miserable as healing can be, it's also rewarding. When you discover hidden talents or traits and even when you discover your 'writing voice' (not meaning a professional voice, just one that knows how to communicate effectively with other people), it's pretty exciting. And fulfilling.

It doesn't matter how long we were partnered with a narcissist or how much time we spent catering to narcissists, all we have to do is treat ourselves the way we did other people and we're headed in the right and healthy direction. Welcome to our community! Thanks for commenting, by the way. It's always so nice to hear from our readers.

Love,
Charlotte
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[MoreMyself]

I'm a 60 year old woman, divorced from an N (never diagnosed but meets all the criteria of NPD).  My journey started six years ago, when we sold our joint business.  I thought my stress symptoms (weight gain, anxiety, IBS) were related to the business, but when that ended I felt even worse. The only thing my then husband and I had in common was the business (which we sold), and our children.  The children were 23 and 15 and I knew something was terribly wrong in our marriage.  We didn't talk, he would leave the room when I entered, take the phone outside to talk, etc.  It all came to a head when he announced without consultation that he was planning on returning to our country of origin to live there at least 6 months of every year - without me. He didn't ask for a divorce but was transferring money overseas, and I realised he was just going to abandon me and our children yet still try to control our financial assets. Was he having an affair?  I think so but I never actually proved it, although I had some strong evidence.

I was in a bookstore soon after and found a book on verbal abuse.  As I leafed through it I felt physically sick as I recognised my husband and his put-downs and insults. The journey had begun and I soon found out from research online and in books that he met all the criteria of someone with NPD.  Because I went into the divorce knowing that, I was able to nail him down on finances and division of assets and came out of it strong in that sense.

Anyway, as I continued learning I realised I had come from the classic parent background which had made me a perfect codependent.  My mother has high N traits and my father was a classic enabler.  These seven years of learning and changing have been such a revelation and I have in the past been active on two other forums, posting and finding support.  I have just discovered this one and have come here to learn more, to share and hopefully to support others because I find frequent writing and posting such good therapy.  I am in low contact with my mother and no contact with my XNH.  My relationships with my two adult children are improving, with a lot of work from all of us.  I would classify myself as 90% recovered, which is why I chose my name - MoreMyself.  I do still have a few sad and lonely times, especially waking in the morning, alone in my big bed, remembering that this wasn't part of my plan for my senior years.  But overall I might not describe myself as happy, but I am content as I continue to walk the road of recovery. This last part of that road is dealing with my own codependent traits, recognising them and changing my unhealthy behaviours.

[CZBZ]

Welcome, moremyself!

You can probably see from reading our forum, that many members of our community have been working on themselves for years. Long after the narcissistic relationship ended. If you are looking for a good place to track your own progress, to talk with other people who are on a similar journey, to increase your compassion for others and for yourself, then WoN is a great forum to add to your self-care list.

It sounds to me like you were very very fortunate to find information about narcissism before your divorce was final. So many women would HOPE against reality that their husband was merely having a lovely 6-month visit overseas and he was merely saving money in a higher-earnings account overseas than he could get in the local bank. Most of us find it preposterous that a partNer would be so cold as to plan his escape in advance without talking to his family about his disconent. I kinda think they don't talk to us because they don't want to resolve the problem. Ns want what they want and when they are 'through with you', it's all over and done with. All that's left is getting you to blame yourself and feel bad 'cuz you didn't have a chance to redeem yourself.

Sick and twisted.

Hope you find a healthy connection to our group, MoreMyself. It's always lovely to meet new people who take responsibility for their future.

Hugs,
CZBZ

[Suicine]

Hi - I'm from the younger generation and I'm from the U.S. My mother's the narcissist. And although I no longer live with her, there are bouts of utter frustration. Sometimes she'll call me when I only left her house an hour or two before. My father is quite the enabler. When push came to shove, he threw my sibling and I under the bus. In the last several years, he joined in on my mother's campaigns against me to gain her favor. In private, although that was rare, he would compliment me. But ultimately, he was her greatest fan.

I don't long for the mother I didn't have - sure, to some extent I wish it had worked out differently, but it's also over. Every then and again I'll see a mother and daughter (like my boyfriend's mother and sister) together and wonder what it would have been like if she and I could be close. She always wanted us to be close, but believed that the issue was forevermore with me. The real aggravation now is just having to deal with her - never mind the garbage that happened in the past.

I feel for those of you who married/dated/were engaged to narcissists. I believe it was happyfeet who mentioned her (boyfriend?..husband? I think it was boyfriend) boyfriend indicating he was going to run off with old girlfriends and paramours. I'm old-fashioned apparently as well, given this generation. In my own relationship, I was lied to about my boyfriend's contact with his ex (he said he didn't talk to her). Thankfully, she lived out of state, but after she repeatedly came up in conversations and he talked about sending her gifts, and he slowly revealed more and more to me, I told him I wasn't comfortable with their friendship and I was leaving. He straightened up and she was gone, although it took a lot of arguments and discussions and TIME for her to completely disappear.

In retrospect, I wouldn't bother with all of the hassle a second time around. If he's not going to hear you out on your concerns about the ex or if he's going to argue with you about it, it's just not worth your time. I suspect that for those of you who had narcissists pulling the ex gimmick, you often heard him say something like, "You're so jealous," or "You're controlling," or "You'll just be jealous about something else if I stop doing x," right? Always putting the problem right back at -you.- Always your fault somehow.

Narcissist or not, that's my advice to everybody. If the ex is thrown at you after you're official - and you're not warned about it before - you have every right to make your demands and to leave. An ex shouldn't be interfering in your relationship and you certainly should never feel that you're second to a woman who -should- be in the past. After my experiences, I'd walk out from the get-go on a man still in touch with his ex (unless of course they had children or something).

That post just caught my eye. There are always more men out there who won't treat you like a pile of poo. Sometimes it takes a great deal of searching, but don't ever let a narcissistic man nor any other man make you feel second, third or twentieth best.

- Suicine

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Welcome, Suicine. I hope we hear more from you on the General Board! It's nice to talk with the younger generation! Sounds like you 'get it' and long before you've invested decades in a relationship.

How are things going with your mother though?? Not having a loving and intimate relationship with a mother is a great loss in your life. Understanding her narcissistic personality might offer some relief though. You know it's not about you as a person. Maybe that helps just enough to move forward...I hope so!

Love,
Charlotte
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[mokey]

Hello, all!

I'm an ACON who has long known (since I was a preteen or younger) that my NM considers her father to be an N, so I grew up hearing a lot about family dysfunction. This was good in some ways - I have a lot of information about what my NM thinks is wrong with her FOO - but not so good in other ways - a kid doesn't need to grow up hearing that much vitriol! I also knew from a young age that my nuclear family wasn't quite right. We're a big Catholic family from a line of big Catholic families and there was all this talk about how big families were better, and that it's normal to fight, and a lot of indoctrination about how the power structure of a family should be...but it felt very wrong to me as a child, and continued to feel wrong as I got older. My sibs and I *feared* my mother growing up.  While I don't think it's unusual for children to sometimes fear a parent or to feel angry with them or say they hate them, I don't think the pervasiveness of my fear and loathing was normal or healthy. Boundaries were nonexistent - well, I guess I had boundaries, they were just violated constantly. They still are.

It's hard to sum up a lifetime of YUCK in a short post, as I know you all know. As I entered my 20s I realized that the struggles between my mother and myself and between her and my siblings were NOT reflective of any kind of normal, healthy family structure. I also realized that the things she had said about my grandfather were also true about her. I was a psych major (not surprising  ) and realized that she was probably right about her armchair diagnosis of him with NPD, but that SHE also fit the criteria to a T.  In psych classes I started learning more about the effects of shame and realized that shame is pervasive in my family. I also learned to identify anxiety and depression in myself.

Over the course of my teens and 20s, I realized that I never felt good during or after a phone call or visit. I witnessed my siblings receiving very poor treatment, my mother controlling the relationships between us, and her cycle of having a more manic upswing, followed by exploding all over some unsuspecting kid of hers. We have that classic scapegoat / golden child dynamic among the siblings, with the roles switching around sometimes, and the other kids kindof just flying under the radar, wishing they could be the golden child but not rocking the boat to protect the scapegoat because they don't want to get in trouble. Ugh.  I learned how to avoid being baited into arguments with NM. I also offered less and less information about myself, and phone calls got farther and farther apart.

Usually when there's a blowup, NM does the shame/blame/FOG dance and eventually the "bad child" has a tearful reconciliation with her and apologizes. NM never apologizes or takes responsibility for her actions. The reconciled "bad child" has to endure tension while NM slowly warms up to them again (i.e., continues to punish them for having strayed). Then there's a quiet/"happy" period, then eventually she gets manic again, somebody does something that angers her, and there's another explosion. Yay.

When I became a parent almost a decade ago, the real growth started for me. I realized that so much of what I had considered "good parenting" were really very poor choices and that there are many, many more healthy options. I began to explore the concepts of parental love and family obligation much more. I read about gentle discipline and Unconditional Parenting and similar other approaches and started building a supportive community of friends for myself and for my children.  I realized that I could not change my mother, but I hoped that she could change on her own, someday.

About four years ago she exploded at me for a life choice that did not affect her, and this time I had been doing a lot of work on myself. I had been reading NonViolent Communication, I had thoughtfully confronted some other troublesome interpersonal relationships (which was hard work, but which has resulted in some fantastic relationships today). I was able to handle her abusive attack in a very calm, reasoned, compassionate manner.  This, of course, infuriated her and I was shamed/blamed/shunned. This time I wasn't going to go back for the tearful reconciliation and "I love you, Mommy" faux resolution. I realized that not only could I not change her, but that it was highly unlikely - perhaps impossible - that she would ever change on her own. I realized that she did not love me in any meaningful, healthy way.  I mourned the loss of a loving mother.  Oddly, acknowledging this painful truth made me feel much better! Knowing that I am, in a way, an orphan felt freeing rather than overwhelmingly sad.

Since then I have journeyed through several forms of extreme low contact and about a year ago decided to go no contact. The societal value of the grandparent/grandchild relationship made this really hard for me. She is resisting NC and appears at my door, sometimes dramatically, and continues to send things to her grandchildren. I refuse to engage her or see her. I consider what she does to be stalking and harassment.

Recently she was particularly dramatic about her intrusion into my life and rather than express sympathy for me, two of my siblings confronted me about how *I* am the problem and need to reconcile with her. They called me a narcissist, an emotional vampire, a Jerry Springer guest, and many other horrible things. This was all in the name of "being honest' and "breaking the ice".  While I've long felt unsupported by my sibling group (I don't ask them to choose sides, but it would be so nice if they said "yeah, we understand why you've done this, and we don't blame you for it"), this was a pretty dramatic reveal. The things I feared they thought are all true. One sibling supports me but stays pretty quiet about it. I understand her decision. The other siblings are all very enmeshed and continue to think of my parents as good parents and great grandparents. They repeat back the family scripts about what my character is like. It's incredibly hurtful and I'm struggling to remind myself that they're speaking from a warped point of view.

In the list of characteristics of narcissistic mothers, #24 (which seems to be #23 on some lists), which starts "she destroys your relationships," is spot-on.

So what brings me to finally create a membership, after occasionally lurking here and on various ACON blogs, is that I'm discovering that today, I need to mourn a different loss: the loss of my siblings and perhaps my nieces/nephews. I think this is going to be harder to figure out than what to do about a destructive, toxic parent and her enabling spouse. It doesn't help that my sibs and I have overlapping social groups. I think I need the support of other people who have experienced this sort of disruption in their FOO.

Ok, I've been somewhat less than concise and need to get on with my day! I'm looking forward to getting to know you all and continuing my healing work here! Many thanks to you.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Dear Mokey,


Welcome to our community. 

Since you've been browsing our site for a while, you probably know that we can read and study and observe but when it comes to healing, we must work through the feelings and grieve our losses. We can't do this work 'in our heads'---we do this work with the heart and soul. Many of the people on WoN have also confronted the loss of the mother they did not have. Grieving this loss is necessary, otherwise people continue suffering and being frustrated because they 'wish' that somehow, their mother will change and finally, they can get the love they never had as children. Letting go of the fantasy is much harder that it seems---for we  understand it cognitively but the physical wound, the emotional loss---remains. Be kind to yourself while you work through the sad aftermath of the narcissistic family.
 

Love,
Charlotte
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[lavender]

Hi all.  I have come looking for support and strategies for surviving and getting out of the Nhusband mess.

I am a married mum of 3 and for many years I have been the supposed guilty party of every and anything that has upset the n.  I always knew it wasn't my fault but I could never get the n to see this so eventually stopped arguing with him and let him rage on while I continued whatever I was doing.  This of course didn't help but eventually he would blow himself out and drive away for hours or days then return as if nothing had happened.

Eventually one day in January this year I googled his behaviour and stumbled upon Narcissim and thats when I realised what I was dealing with.  Great! I can work with this now and fix it...wrong! you cant fix narcs cos according to them there is nothing wrong  with them it's all our fault!...oh damn! now what do I do? cant afford to leave him because we have absolutely nothing but also cant afford to stay or we will never get anywhere and we will still be subjected to his rages, innapropriate behaviour and his blaming .  He is currently away and has been for many months.  I am still not totally sure what to do...

....so thats where I am up to...

[clearskiesahead]

Hello Everyone in this beautiful and very welcoming Barn,

Being a horsey girl I have always been partial to a large barn. So I already feel quite at home here. I am also arty, and love the art work and creativity that has gone into the site.

I am 50 and live alone with an 18yo Ginger puss, who knows for certain that the world revolves around him. I can accommodate his superior behaviour because he exudes love and joy and generally warms and uplifts my own world. As I am sure you will all appreciate this sadly does not apply to other members of my family.

A psychologist I consulted a year ago, (because I felt as if I had been "beaten up") applied the term narcissism to my mother. I read a couple of articles on the subject and was amazed that I could tick nearly all the boxes in relation to my mother.  I felt a burden lift from my own shoulders because I always seem to be blamed for nearly everything that goes wrong in my family. And believe me there is always something my Nm is unhappy about, even if it is as unimportant as the new trendy bag I bought: a tirade of abuse will spew forth. The last year has been a learning and observing process and I have managed to keep out of "trouble." My mother and stepfather praised me recently and thanked me for helping them and being the only one around to take care of them. (The Golden Child?) But not for long!

The trigger for my intensive internet search for help with my Narcissistic mother started a couple of weeks ago. Three weeks ago in the presence of the niece of my stepfather,  whom I had never met in 35 years, my mother told a story which I had not heard before. It concerned how she met my stepfather. Being an inquisitive daughter, much to my mother's annoyance, I unthinkingly challenged what I heard. My mother insisted this was the truth and that it was none of my business anyway.

Well, perhaps it wasn't, except that it had impacted my life and the life of our entire family, including my father who died about 14 years ago, feeling that he was to blame for everything that went wrong in our lives. I learnt several years after he died, when Mum admitted a few key things,  that this most certainly was not the case.

I still do not know THE truth about how she met my stepfather, but the story took my mind back to that time period in the mid 70's and I remembered things which have really disturbed me. That is why I am here. I realise that healing from a narc and all the ramifications of their lies and manipulation and criticism and everything else that is typical, as I have learned in the last week or so, on the various internet sites, requires help. It cannot be done alone.

I felt utterly alone a week ago. Remembering that when my mother separated from my father, she left my sister and I to live alone for several months in her mother's house, at the age of nearly 12 and nearly 14, while she set up house with my stepfather (25kms away) taking my two younger brothers with her. It is hard to believe. I am still reeling.    Her mother had died leaving the house empty allowing her to move away from my father. All they did was fight for as long as I can remember. After the divorce all she did was fight with me. So I was worse off. There are so many other details of course, but the main thing that is really disturbing me right now is the question, how could any mother leave her two daughters alone? How did my father not know? What about the school or my friends? And what did we eat?

I remember Mum popping in but could not say how often. The house was clean. It was a nice house. She was not there in the evenings. How did the neighbours not realise? I phoned two of my mother's close friends and asked them if they knew and they didn't. I am sure they did not believe me. I got off the phone feeling quite silly for talking to them. I was the eldest so at least my sister had me. But the thing that is making me so sad is who did I have? No one. I am realising that is how I feel a lot of the time. Yes it happened a long time ago, but it is just an extreme example of so many other odd things that went on. When I say sad, I am not in a bucket of tears, as I once might have been, but I suppose I am just really seeing it for what it was. I have the courage now to look at it. In the past I have vaguely and very briefly recalled it but never realised perhaps how much it affected how I set my life up even now. Too independent?

I recalled having my first boyfriend at the time and phoning him after 3 weeks, to end the association even though I really liked him, because I was afraid that at some point he would find out I lived without parents and might pressure me into something I was not ready for.

Anyway there is so much more. But that is the main reason why I am here and why I need support and to be in contact with others who might believe me. My sister remembers but lives a very full life overseas and is not interested in talking about it. She  said her friends asked her when she told them, "Why did you go to school?" My sister answered "Oh, we liked school."

I have had time to think, remember and write in the last two years and I seem to be going back through my teens and trying to piece it together. Like a giant jigsaw with so many missing pieces. I realise I cannot change the past but I would like to move on with my life: improve my career, my health (asthma) and find a loving healthy relationship with a man. I have been alone a long time after dating a narcissistic man who was great fun on the surface. But that is another story. It is so easy to see more clearly with hindsight.  I want to heal and I want to know how. I am definitely going to spend less time around my mother. I love her, but I really cannot cope with the seemingly bottomless pit of lies and deception. Not to mention criticism etc.

Thanks for reading and best wishes for your own healing journeys. Wishing you all love and happiness. Today, although it is the middle of winter, we have a beautiful sunny clear blue sky. The temperature is only 10 degrees Celsius, but hope is in the air. Clear skies ahead!