Please tell us a little bit about yourself!

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

To All Newcomers:


It can be very confusing when you first join a new community, especially when you are already confused by the person you 'think' might qualify for a NPD diagnosis. It's very hard to pinpoint pathological narcissism BEFORE you are attached to to someone. Before you have invested emotionally in the relationship.


It's also common for people to feel an 'intuitive tug' that something is not quite right and yet, without a basis in psychology, we can't quite put words to our feelings.


You will find good friends on WoN and a lot of information about narcissism, maybe more than you ever wanted to know. We have an amazing group of wise people who have faced the N-demoN and survived, if not 'thrived'.


We'd like to get to know you, too. But only when you feel comfortable telling us a little bit about yourself. What pushed you into cyberspace looking for answers? What has been going on in your relationship? (Please reveal what you are comfortable revealing. We respect your boundaries on sensitive issues!)


If you would like to introduce yourself on this thread, that would be WoNderful. Just click on the far right TAB that says "Reply" and your comments will be added to this ongoing thread.


If you prefer posting your story or comments or "HI!" on a separate thread, click on the far right tab that says, NEW TOPIC.


A window will pop-up so you can write your comments. When you have finished, click POST at the bottom of the window.
 

Welcome to WoN. You've found a very special group on the Web.
I daresay it's the only BARN in cyberspace where spiders are welcome. I oughta know.




Love,
Charlotte
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[Legs]

Oooooooooooooohhhh! I love being in this new barn with the golden light streaming in through the windows (love best those teeny tiny little windows! They look like jewels) and the hay wagon.. If hay didn't make me itch,I'd climb up there and take a nap.

Yes, a nap is just what I am going to have. I finally finished the disgusting Infidelity Diary that my attorney wanted me to prepare, it's all color coded into lovely Excel files and I don't ever have to look at that nastiness again. A HUGE burden off my heart. Now I just have to do inventories and bank stuff and see how he did all his maneuvering. Sickening, but it's just numbers and the occasional nastiness, not 18,000 KB of utter perverted nastiness.


Just wanted to comment on the lovely picture..it made me feel restful just to look at at and I keep looking at it over and over again. YOU have the most wonderful visual aids here, Charlotte. I feel like I am looking through one of those viewmasters from the 50's and looking right into a really bright light. You do something to the pictures here that I have never seen before on the internet and I don't know how you do it, but I absolutely see pictures in a different way here. Maybe it's because you have really fabulous pictures to begin with, but they seem to be lit  in a very different way.

Thanks for the lovely, safe and beautiful place...

Legs

[redhairtemper]

Hello.  I'm not sure how much to say or not say here but in a nutshell I am 39 year old, divorced mother of two teenage boys.  My ex suffers from NPD.  Or rather, everyone around him suffers.  The thing that I most feel ridiculous about is that I was well aware of NPD years before all of this.  My sister also is an N.  I've been no contact with her for years.  I remember pouring over pages and pages of information on NPD and it never occurring to me that my husband was one.  I just accepted all of the abuse, gaslighting and general craziness because I wasn't a good enough wife.  I knew that he was troubled and that he needed a tremendous amount of help.  When I found out about his double life, his affairs the cracks in my delusion really hit.  I was actually already leaving him for his abuse, I didn't need the affairs, but finding that out opened my eyes, to an extent.  I went through a very unsuccessful period of reconciliation with much the same results as the marriage and finally began divorce proceedings last fall.  We were divorced in January.

I have been mostly no-contact since January with the help of a formal police caution.  His goal is now to discredit me with the police, also my coworkers.  He called them because he called my house (a no-no) and he didn't like the tone of my voice.  All he managed to do was up his threat level assessment.

Why am I here?  Well, I'm pretty much over him, I'm dating a great guy who just divorced his N wife and we understand a lot that others don't.  I'm not 'in love' with this man anymore, I don't feel like my world will fall apart without him.  I just need help and support negotiating the co-parenting thing and sometimes I need to navel reflect to make sense of just the hell what went on during my 20 years with this man. 

Currently, I'm enjoying his public blogs that he thinks no one can see.  It's on a site dedicated to fitness/health buffs.  For those in love with themselves, perfect for the narcissist. It is a fascinating look into the mind of an N and I have a valuable source of intel:  what his plans are, where he's going, if he's moving.  I did discover that not only does he have no real attachment to his children but he actually doesn't like them very much.  That was disheartening.  He met his current girlfriend, the last woman he cheated on me with, on this site and her blog is incredibly enlightening.  In some sense, I am watching how an N sucks in his victims.  I have debated about ways to 'save' her but the ex-wife is always the villain, right?  and honestly, she's quite mean and may be an N in her own right.  Who knows?  I've decided to monitor the situation, if I see her in real danger, I'll try to step in or if she contacts me for information I will do the best I can to help her. Otherwise, I will remain silent.  If anything, my attempt to save her will just drive her toward him even more.

My focus is now on helping my children cope and navigate the world of a narcissist.  I'm concentrating teaching them they have a choice and how to put boundaries into place with their father.  My youngest is 14, he is actually much stronger than his 17 year old brother.  They each cope in their own ways.

I just want to thank you for this site and allowing me to post here. 

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

We are grateful you joined our community, redhairtemper. Never underestimate the 'chameleon' qualities of a narcissist. Anyone can be fooled for at least a short while. Plus, narcissists do get worse you know. Always remember that. It's easy to criticize yourself for loving someone who would betray you...but remember, you married a man who appeared to be honest, committed and loyal until all of a sudden, he wasn't.

As soon as you feel comfortable, please join us on the General Board. I'd offer links and good books to read, however, it sounds like you have a very good understanding of narcissism already. That's awesome...it shows how much you want to understand this disorder.

If you have any questions, just ask.

This is the link to our General Board where members talk about anything and everything: General Board

This is a link to The Tool Shed where members are welcome to post articles and links for current news stories about personality disorders, NPD, narcissism, psychopathy, etc.

You've likely read a lot of messages about narcissists and narcissism. If you're interested in reading archived threads about narcissists, check out The Duck Pond. It's Read Only but it's very informative AND you become familiar with some of WoN's  members.

Welcome!

Charlotte
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[Clare]

Hello, I am in my 30's and have two wonderful daughters.  I have given everything I have to give my children a happy and healthy home despite our confusing family members.  For so long I felt like something was wrong with me and that I'm doing something wrong.  However, when I think rationally I know that I'm a good person and never intentionally did anything wrong.
I have 2 people in my life that I believe are NPD.  That is my mother and my ex (girls father).

I don't have a lot of time to write, but here is a few examples of behavior.
My mom can be really nice or really mean.  She's an alcoholic too.  She lies and manipulates and twists my words around to make me sound bad.  As a teen she'd kick me out and then tell everyone I ran away.
Recently, she locked herself in her backyard. The padlock is on the outside of the gate so she couldn't get out.  I live 20 min away and went over there to let her in her house.  She called me every 5 min. screaming at me because I wasn't there fast enough. 
My ex had an affair 10 years ago which led to our divorce. I filed and made him leave.  During our marriage he was layed back.  He didn't spend much time with me and never shared his feelings or emotions with me.  I felt lonely with him.  There were times where he'd go out with friends and not come home and not answer his phone. Not sure if he cheated on me then or not.  Don't care now.  Anyway, he blamed the divorce on me.  He cried and said that I was so emotionally abusive to him that he can't stand it etc.  I thought I did emotionally abuse him.  I was so full of guilt for a long time. Anyway, now heaccuses me of being a bad parent and putting the girls against him etc.  Recently he got mad when my daughter changed plans on him.  He cried and told her his feelings are hurt and bla bla bla.  ANyway, that all ended really bad and he told the girls that they can no longer visit him until they talk to him about what they feel and want etc.  THe girls never talk to him.  I don't know why and they don't say why.  Sometimes they didn't want to go to his house and sometimes they seem upset after coming home but they would never tell me why.  I alalways thought that he really believed that I am a bad parent and bad person.  I knew I wasn't but thought he just didn't see me for who I really am.  NOw I am so cofussed.  The behavior he had when he left me is the exact same as it was when he told girls they can't visit him anymore.  My kids are devistated and I'm confused.  I always thought he was a good dad.  How can you love your kids and say the things he said to them?  I can't go all into it now as I'm in  a hurry, but he said terrible things.  Is it possible that my mom and ex are both NPD and I'm really ok?  I put myself in counseling years ago and still go.  My counselor says I'm a good person but I sometimes think she doesn't see me like my mom and ex do.  I do get so mad at them and have lost my tempter and said mean things to them or told them to get away from me and I don't want anything else to do with them etc.  I do feel crazy sometimes when I'm around them.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Dear Clare,

It is not uncommon for someone to discover a narcissist in their childhood, especially a narcissistic parent we tried to comfort and support when the comfort and support should have been give to us, not the reverse. Is is also common for children to grow into emotionally resilient adults, despite the dysfunction in their home. What's most important is learning about narcissism so you can become more self-aware and reinforce boundaries that will protect you from people who will manipulate your ignorance about pathology, to their advantage.

There is so much to learn and lucky for you, you've stumbled on a wise and compassionate group who are willing to support you.  

It is not unusual for a narcissist to continue blaming his partner for emotional abuse even years after the relationship has ended.

It is not unusual for a narcissist to have an affair and blame his partner for 'making him look elsewhere'.

It is not unusual for a narcissist to expect his children to comfort him, to parent him, to focus ALL their attention on him and his needs.

It is not unusual for normal people to REACT emotionally to narcissists. You can unlearn this behavior and learn new ways to deal with narcissistic people.

It is not unusual to feel crazy when you are with narcissists. In fact, people with personality disorders cause other people to feel 'crazy'. It's one of the biggest red flags for a personality disorder.

I'd like to welcome you to WoN and encourage you to join our community on the General Board.

Posting a brief synopsis of your situation here will help everyone get to know your situation, so thank you for introducing yourself!  

Love,
Charlotte
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[Clare]

Thanks Charlotte!

[Sweatheart]

Hi. I am 41 yo and about 6 months ago I have been devalued and discarded by N. This experience was the hardest and the most painful experience in my life. Along with unbelievable pain it brought realization that my life beliefs and ways were not really viable if I drove myself to this point. Or may be they were viable exactly because they opened my eyes on Nism... This I still have to discover, I guess.

The N in my story comes in a shape of the woman I fell in love with. It was a heartbreaking realization that I can fall in love with the woman but the "mutual" passion consoled the heartbreak easily. Then the story unfolds as any other N-story. Idealization period, professions of love, withholding attention, affection, absolute absence of interest in me, expressions of disapproval, absence of validation, contempt, devalue, discard. I am working with her. Our tables are joined.

I am recovering. I quit smoking, I quit drinking, I started exercising every day, I watched inspirational movies, I read and continue reading self-help books, I researched Nism, I talked to other victims on-line. I discovered that my Mother has very strong N-traits. I admitted that I was sexually violated by her when a child. My father is flaming N. I understood that I am full of fears that inspire my addictions (smoking, alcohol consumption, love addictions), I am afraid of not being liked by other people and at the same time I am afraid of opening my heart to people, because whenever I open my heart, there is N on the other end. Bottom line - through whole my life I was attracted to Ns. And every N would be more Nish than the previous. Finally I hit the bottom falling in love with The N. I reached to wall.

Now I am learning how to re-parent myself and find different ways in life, way that do not lead me to Ns. I am very green on this path and I have learned a few lessons so far: I have learned how not to act on my feelings, but instead let my feelings flow through me. I have learned that I can do without N. I have learned that if the N-craving comes, i can wait it out. It goes away. I learned how misleading my thoughts and rationalizations are. I am learning how to stick to discipline.

I came to the point when I feel lonely. I am looking for the community of people who share similar experiences.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Dear Sweatheart,

You have already done so much to help yourself recover from the low self-worth most people experience in a narcissistic relationship. You are taking better care of yourself, nuturing yourself, learning, growing, making connections with new people in your life. Bravo!

"I am afraid of opening my heart to people, because whenever I open my heart, there is N on the other end."

When we have restored our self-worth and truly believe our lives have value and purpose, the next N on the other end will just be a N on the other end. When we discover they were not who they appeared to be, we'll cry a few tears, allow ourselves to feel sad about a relationship that could not grow as we had hoped, but it won't say much about US as worthy and lovable human beings.

We lose our fear of opening our heart to others when we have fully opened our hearts to ourselves. 

Welcome to WoN...and thanks for stopping by the barn to say "Hi!" 

Love,
Charlotte
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[wilbur]

Hi,

I am 35 years old and have a mother who shows almost all the symptoms of a classic narcissist. She is currently serving her second year of a four year sentence in prison for illegal activity which she insisted she was perfectly innocent of. I know for a fact she is not innocent and witnessed her illegal activities for years. Every time I tried to talk her out of it, she would ridicule me and say I had no idea what I was talking about. So after a lifetime of her neglect, manipulation, emotional abuse, I find myself in the position of being able to cut her out entirely by default. When we have talked on the phone she is angry and hurt that I am not in touch often and says I have abandoned her. This makes me feel guilty. I have asked her if she ever ponders why I may not want more contact with her, but she thinks she is perfect, innocent, denies any wrongdoing to me or anyone else. In fact, she sees herself as a martyr who will be vindicated. She thinks her prison sentence is a lesson for me. She has even told me she wished I could spend time in jail to learn how bad some of these women really had it and appreciate her. Anyway, my big issue right now is I WANT TO CUT HER OUT OF MY LIFE. I am so angry and don't think she really deserves a place in it-but I feel so GUILTY. In particular because I know she is lonely and isolated right now. thanks for letting me vent.

[Legs]

so then cut her out. My father was a nasty sadistic N and when I was 35, I went to court and had my name changed to my mother's maiden name and I wrote him a letter and told him that I would continue to show up for major family functions, but that if I saw him being hateful to anyone there, I was going to get up and walk out and I would never go to another wedding/funeral because that was the only time my family ever got together.

He behaved himself (I'm sure it almost killed him) and eventually he and his new wife moved away and I haven't heard a word from them in three years. I also cut my two N sisters off at around the same time. Guilty is a wasted emotion. If you want to do it, then make up your mind and do it and don't agonize over it.

Set down some rules for her future behavior and stick to them. Don't make a threat unless you are willing to back it up. I just finally decided if people were hurting me more than loving me, I didn't need them in my life.

Legs, a Mean Girl sometimes....but that was after half a lifetime of sucking up to @SSes

[betterdays]

If you want to cut contact, then it is the right thing to do.  My feeling is that it is important to find a support system to keep you from becoming lonely when you do stop communicating with N mom.  If you already have people who value and support you, and positive ways to keep busy,  then you are ahead of the game.  I simply have so many good people and things to do that I will never miss the N when I go from LC to NC.  Unfortunately, what we have been through with N's makes many vulnerable to alcohol, cigarettes, and drug abuse just to keep going.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Greetings, Wilbur!


I have a very good friend named Wilbur who lives on Zuckerman Farm. He is T-E-R-R-I-F-I-C.  

Narcissists see themselves 'above the law' which means they do what they do because they ARE so special. Rules are for other people, not narcissists. I don't know how much you have read about AntiSocial Personality Disorder, but you may find a few characteristics that fit with your mother's personality and behavior. Some psychologists draw an clinical line between narcissists who do criminal things and get caught, and those who do criminal things and don't get caught. Narcissism and psychopathy work together so what we do on this forum, is talk about our relationship with someone who has a negative impact on other people----like yourself. Someone who believes they are special and above the rules of common decency like your mother.

Narcissists do commit crimes but they are not as likely to REPEAT those crimes like someone with an Anti-social personality disorder.

You fit right in with our group, wilbur and we are happy to have you join us. Most people learn to work through their 'guilty' feelings eventually---especially when they realize they are feeling guilty about cutting off contact with someone who continually hurts them. I believe it's fair to say that THAT is a 'crime in process'.

When you feel comfortable joining members on the General Board, you may want to start talking about 'guilt' which we call: illegitimate guilt. One reason this guilt hangs around too long is because you cannot process (experience remorse) for something you did not do. We can work through feelings of illegitimate guilty by confronting the truth and placing responsibility where it belongs.

The person who ought be feeling guilty is the narcissist, not you! Some of the hardest work members do is learning about and creating healthy boundaries. Understanding 'illegitimate guilt' is part of our boundary work and an important step towards mental health, spiritual peace, and emotional integrity.

Love,
Charlotte
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[inflatedheart]

Hello All!

This site was recommended to me by SuzyP. Thanks for the awesome tip! I can tell that this is a really great and safe place to connect with other survivors. Let me tell you a little bit about myself:

It is hard to even decide where to begin because my family life is so convoluted and dysfunctional, so I'm sorry if it sounds like rambling! I am 25 years old and the youngest of three children. My parents are both narcissists as is my older sister and possibly my brother. You could refer to my family's problems as "intergenerational narcissism"; it seems like everyone in my immediate family struggles with chronic self-absorption. My parents, however, have both been officially diagnosed with NPD. I have been in therapy for years, though my newest therapist has been the one to finally figure out what exactly was wrong with my family life. So far, I've only realized the impact their narcissism has had on my life in the past year and a half or so. Now that there is a word for it, I feel much better able to deal with the toxicity they imparted in my life. In addition to surviving the NPD, I am also a child abuse (though it is arguable that NPD and child abuse are the same entity) and domestic violence survivor (again more patterns!). Currently, I have no contact with my older sister and brother and minimal contact with my parents. I have cut my parents out of my life in the past and found it to be absolutely freeing. Last year, I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma (cancer) and my parents unfortunately came waltzing back into my life when I began treatment. I was too sick to fend them off. My goal is to return to no contact this time next year when my husband and I move to Texas. A perfect time to cut things off!

Anyway, beyond my personal experiences with Narcissism, I am a Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault advocate and work largely with the sex worker and adult industry community. Moreover, I am currently completing my Master of Arts degree in Criminal Justice and have plans to apply for a doctorate program in Women and Gender Studies this fall. I have 6 pet rats (YES! Rats!); they're amazing animals and lots of fun. I enjoy farmer's markets, cooking, reading and teaching.

Thanks again for such a great space to connect with other N-survivors!
-Susie

[Suze]

Hello All,  I'm sort of still in that numb phase I think?  I physically left my N June 15th, it's now August 15th and already I feel bits and parts of myself returning.  Ironic, 'bits and parts' is a fair description of how my ex N viewed women in general and me specifically.  I have no excuse, I had my master's in Psychology when I met this man last Fall, yet I didn't realize what he is for many months.  Now, I am seeing patterns in my relationships that are very disturbing.  My ex husband, I'm beginning to think, was also an N, he left me and our then 15 yo son to fend for ourselves after he lost our home via gambling, moved us into a flea ridden shack, while I was being tested for various symptoms...that turned out to be colon cancer in 2005.  My son and I are both still suffering the aftermath of his dad's vengeful behavior.  I had to watch my 22 yo son break down and cry this mornign before he left for work saying, "How can dad have just left me, a kid, homeless and with a mom with cancer, I must be so weak....my own father doesn't care if I live or die".
Ya, I can accept and even move on from my husband, but the damage his narcissism has done to my son is something I will never forgive.  I can only hope to help my boy heal, as I too begin my own healing.  It hurts so much to see my son suffer for poor choices I have made.  :-(

This most recent relationship is what finally brought me here.  Maybe I should be thankful for that alone.  This N only lasted 9 months before I realized I HAD to get out of there!  Now, as I said, I am seeing patterns everyhwere.  I am beginning to believe that my father, long deceased from colon cancer, was an N and my mother...well, she was definitely Personality Disordered.  Can it be possible to grow up with TWO N's for parents? So tired...

[mountainmama]

Hello there! I am a 29 year old military spouse & mommy of two boys (and expecting a third!), daughter to a malignant narcissist mother and enabling father. I've been in therapy for the last year, which is how I discovered this, and boy was I shocked to finally discover a name for what I knew was wrong with our family from as early as age 2. It feels really, really good to admit that our home was not the "perfect" place she presented to the world, and that the abuse wasn't just in my head. Sadly it is still ongoing for my younger siblings, ages 19 13 & 12. I don't have a very strong relationship to my adult siblings (both sisters) as they are still in denial, and not interested in having anything to do with us unless THEY need help. The last two are adopted, something that still amazes me the state giving such a horrible mother MORE children after she royally screwed up her own bio kids. For years I'd been trained to believe I was the black sheep, even though I never got in trouble, stayed active in my youth group, did community service projects, never did drugs drank or partied, never acted promiscuously or even had a boyfriend for that matter, always kept good grades and in fact taught MYSELF through HS b/c she couldn't be bothered, and worked at least 2 jobs steadily throughout HS. Maybe I was just the black sheep due to not giving her total control of my life, daring to have a personality separate from hers. My Nmom is a real piece of work: hops from church to church b/c "none of them are listening to her and so they're all wrong", can't seem to keep any friends except one or two enablers who don't have to live near her, accuses us all of doing things we never did, punishes/threatens/denounces/cuts off children whenever she feels they are becoming too individual (I was kicked out at 18 b/c she "couldn't stand my face anymore and wanted to forget I existed"), kills off family pets whenever a child gets too attached, isolates her immediate family from extended family even to the point of moving us all to UT (since they tried to intervene on our behalf), constantly berates and belittles family members, is a horrible gossip/liar/troublemaker, holds grudges indefinitely against EVERYONE in her life, yanks my siblings in and out of schools at whim, refuses to allow anyone other than her to voice feelings/opinions, is a sanctimonious hypocrite who condemns friends/family/strangers while claiming she does no wrong, systematically emasculates my father nonstop, and seems to hate the whole world (or maybe just any part of it that steals her spotlight!). Recently my husband and I have cut off all contact with my messed up parents, as they refuse to change their ways. When I witnessed her using the same patterns of abuse on MY sons that she so often used on me, that was it. We are also helping my brother, the 19 year old, get out of the house and into the Navy (he's really smart, going nuclear program just like we did, so proud!). Well now that her chief sources of NS are being removed, she has started an all out smear campaign on myself and my husband. It is really taking a toll on our family, just yesterday I got a surprise visit from DCFS b/c she filed a complaint saying we were neglecting our kids, they were way behind in school, and that they were in an abusive home just due to my husband being there. This from the woman who homeschooled her kids specifically for the purposes of isolation and control, abused me DAILY both physically and verbally, and considered children to be slave labor at her disposal. I had expected her to pull some kind of stunt, since we have refused to talk with them after she repeatedly threatened us both and she kept stalking me in my own home for several weeks after. Between threats of taking legal guardianship of our kids, telling me I was a failure & a horrible mom b/c I didn't clean as much as her, and the repeated death wishes against my husband it's pretty clear there is no reasoning with her. Also, I just found out 2 weeks ago that autism runs on her side of the family, both my grandmother and uncle have it. This is major to me, and makes me even angrier at her for constantly denying there was any history of it, b/c it's painfully obvious that my oldest son suffers from it too. But no, he doesn't have special needs, it's just my fault as a parent that he's not learning at the same speed everyone else is! Give me a break. Cause admitting that your FOO isn't perfect is not worth seeing MY son make progress?? If I had known about this stuff earlier, we could have been preparing for this. Now I have to go through testing, get an IEP, get PCS orders to move us back near a MTF in VA (again, which we would never had left if we knew he'd need it), and get my son into the Exceptional Family Member Program. All while dealing with the fallout of her crap and being pregnant, a pregnancy that I'm not even getting to enjoy b/c I'm terrified I will lose this child over all the stress she's causing me. And she knows it! She started all the latest brouhaha after finding out I was expecting again, so it's obviously not coincidence she just sees me as weaker now and probably getting more attention than her. What a loser. So yeah, here I am, stuck in the same state as her for at least 6 more months, and wishing I'd never moved back to try and reconcile with my folks. It was a complete waste of time, energy, and guilt. This week I am going to base legal to get a No Contact order against us, and also to amend our Living Will to make it perfectly clear that under no circumstances will our children EVER be given to her, if anything happens they will go to their paternal grandparents who are loving & mature people. And then I am going to try very hard to NOT end up in the ER with pregnancy complications, b/c the last thing my family needs right now is for me to get put on bed rest. Hopefully if I keep pushing through this mess and refuse to stop telling the truth, things will get better next year. Until then.....

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Welcome mountainmama, Suze, InflatedHeart! Your stories will help other members get to know you, so special 'thanks' for your willingness to write about your life. It's never easy to get started putting our troubles into words, though it is an important step towards healing. Being 'willing' is fundamental to personal change.

I hope you feel comfortable joining members on the General Board. This is where you can continue talking about your situation, asking questions, finding answers, working with other people to understand what you have been through.

"Can it be possible to grow up with TWO N's for parents?"

O sure. It's not unusual for a strutting rooster to mate up with a head chicken. This destructive duo may or may not have personality disorders, though. Whether they are clinical narcissists or not, they WILL harm anyone in the barnyard. Of this you can be certain. This is why people have formed groups like WoN, to root out our distorted beliefs resulting from spending any amount of time in the cuckoo coop. 

Healing takes time. It is a multi-layered process that might be kick started by a narcissistic relationship in our adult lives. The pain, loss and confusion of a current relationship, awakens wounds and unresolved issues from our past. This is why so many people suggest crisis can be an 'opportunity'. Some people are committed to this process for as long as it takes; others might move on with their lives and never feel a need to question their childhood. We're each so different and yet, we are so similar.

To each of you, I would suggest building a strong support network that will encourage you to use this crisis as an opportunity to get to know yourself as deeply and as intimately as possible.

Welcome to WoN!

And of course, "Salutations!" (that's a fancy way of saying "Hello!")


Love,
Charlotte
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[MorAzteca]

Hi
I'm a narcissist. I think I am. I was abused by my grandfather at 6. 
I was and orphan when i was 14 yro. Married at 17. Mother of three at 26. And divorced at 39. I have been alone for almost 10 years.
I had have all kinds of relationships. and I feel in love of a N. Me too always feel the feeling of others. I was thinking that I was gifted by god...hihhiiih...wrong.
The man I love this last 5 years are married. I always avoid intimacy with "sane" man. I love to feel that I'm in control of my life, when definitely I;m not. As you see my life is been a roller coaster. full of emotions, situations, men, trips, and all kinds of adrenaline that made my life exiting.
Now...after 9 years of living on the edge...I decided to stop but I know that i need help, something that I never ask for. I always think that i can make it alone with no help....well I have been doing everything by myself since I became orphan. why I can make this alone?......It is very hard for me to got this..to accepet it..to recognized the pont that I need help. It is very very vveeeeeery hard for me asking for help...........got to go...is time to go home..now I'm at my work!!...see ya!

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Welcome MorAzteca,


Asking for help is difficult for most people, so you aren't alone in that regard! One day, we take stock of our lives and realize that if we keep doing what we've been doing, we will continue to live a dissatisfying life. A window of opportunity opens and when it does, jump through it! If you are interested in changing 'narcissistic traits', you can learn a lot from people on this forum. You might consider finding a therapist to work with you directly. Were you diagnosed with narcissism or are you drawing this conclusion from reading information on the Internet (or elsewhere?)

The WoN forum is oriented towards people who have been in relationship with narcissists, so if you have NPD, our group discussions may be triggering. It can get rather 'hot' in the WoN kitchen. Still, understanding narcissistic defenses and how you have protected yourself from pain will help you relate better to other people and yourself.

Life truly is: all about relationships. It may take a lifetime to work through your past traumas, insults, rejections and abuse, but nothing else in life is more worthy of your time. 

Have you ever participated on forums for people with narcissistic traits, or NPD? There are a few on the Internet and this may be a more comfortable group for you if you know for sure that you have NPD.

Love,
Charlotte
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[Sunflower]

Hello! My story begins over twenty years ago when I became involved with a man that I now know is an N. The relationship was off & on for 6 years, from the time I was 18 until about 24 y/o. I actually ended up moving several states away to escape his abuse. I can tell you that I was left feeling completely used, devalued and discarded. Time after time I was shown that I did not matter, his friends always came first and he did cheat, without remorse. In the end he never seemed to have time for me, ever. I was devastated when I left and was even suicidal. I slowly rebuilt my life..but I never forgot him.

So, why I am writing now after so many years have passed? He resurfaced several months ago after no contact with him for almost 13 years. A little background on me now: When I moved I went back to college and my degree was in Psych. Some of the courses I was taking actually facilitated an "Aha" moment for me when introduced to NPD through basic course studies. Reading the characteristics was like reading a list describing all the bizarre behaviors of my ex. It was all there in front of my face and eerily accurate.

I moved on with my life actually became involved with another N but got out of that one early in the game. Went on to become involved in a relationship with a co-dependent, compulsive lying, addict. I have a child with the latter and suffice it to say I have been through hell & back with him. I was not aware of his addictions until after I became pregnant and needless to say wanted to make things work for the sake of my child. Thinking I could help him and being a typical enabler. He has been in/out of jail & prison through the years. I would break things off & get sucked right back in. Such is the cycle..Ashamed that I KNEW better.Set him up with counselors, take him to AA, have him evaluated by mental health counselors through different programs. He would not follow through with any of it.

Years later, I am contacted by my ex N from my early adult years via FB. The one that cut me to the core. We began corresponding very slowly at first, simply catching up. I had convinced myself that I had forgiven him many years before & let it go. He was living in another country and seemed open with me about his life. He was separated from his wife and had a young child with her. We continued to communicate via e-mail for a few months and before I knew it I was having all the feelings of being in love but was guarded and did not let on. He was the one that moved very fast. I gave him my phone number & he began to call, once a week at first, a scheduled call. Then I would get unexpected calls, little gifts sent for my daughter & I from overseas. After a few months he advised me he was moving back to the States, back to our hometown where we both have family and that his wife & son would be coming soon thereafter but they were still separated & would be divorcing. He moved back and within a few weeks made arrangements to meet in a state that was close to me for a romantic weekend together. I have to say that I was blown away by the intensity of the weekend, the reconnection. I left feeling very much in love and that it was a mutual thing. He began to speak about me moving there (hometown) to be with him--that he had never gotten over me or experienced the kind of relationship he had with me with anyone else since. That his relationships with women were not even worth talking about. He began to talk of having a child together, a family, a life..Just overwhelmed me with the thought of a true family--almost as if he had looked into my very soul & saw what I had wanted for so long in my life.

I went on vacation to our hometown a few weeks later and was able to spend time with him and also meet his son. He made it a point to spend time with my child and that we all be together as much as possible. He set aside nights that he & I spent together..But I began to see a change. When I would try to talk to him about anything emotional, he often would not respond.He would stare at me with these piercing eyes which made me very uncomfortable. I spent time with his family whom I had not seen in years & his dad actually cried when he saw me. Told me how much he loved me but later took me aside and looked very worried. Told me that he told his Son that if he was serious about our relationship he would love me forever and never hurt me again. Yes, I know, there were red flags EVERYWHERE. I flew back home and after about a week, it all began to fall apart. The intensity was no longer there. There was less and less contact on his part. He ran hot/cold--when I would try to talk to him, he would tell me that I was making an issue out of nothing. Forget about any communication of feelings, he would shut down.

When we first began talking again (the beginning of all this reconnection), he told me how unhappy he was in his life. That he knew there was something wrong. That he expected special treatment and knew that he didn't give thought to others feelings or how he affected them with his actions. I told him then that he exhibited Narcissistic characteristics. He said to me "Can you help me?"I think right then, I was lost, sucked in and under his spell once again. He knew through e-mails, I had worked as a counselor & advocate for years.

After weeks of him giving/witholding I couldn't take it anymore so via text I ended it. That was three days ago and I have heard nothing since. I composed an e-mail basically telling him what he is, citing examples, giving specific behaviors. The thing is, I don't think it would matter to him but it is almost like I need to do it for FINAL closure for me.

I thank you for letting me get all of this out. So many years have gone by and in a way I still feel like that wounded young adult from thirteen years ago, just with more wisdom now. I now have the daunting task of healing from all this again and figuring out why I attract these types of individuals into my life. Not so much fun when your are almost forty and you feel lost again.

[Sunflower]

What really confused me was that I spent years thinking that I was better off alone. The same day that he contacted me through FB I was in church and praying that I did not want to be alone anymore. That I wanted happiness & a family..Bam, I get his email.I thought it was divine intervention!

[Kedra]

Hello all,

I'm still trying to come to terms with what has happened to me.  It's been a learning experience, and I feel like a slow learner.  Much heartache and research has led me here. I believe I have been involved with the same N twice.  I have a feeling this is not all that uncommon - perhaps folks here can tell me.  I was in a relationship with him when I was young and again very recently.  I have only recently figured out he is an N.  He adored me when we met.  That adoration turned to controlling, manipulative, behavior that really stung, especially if I tried to move away from his "affection."  The sex was pretty awesome though.   All I can tell you is that I knew something was very wrong, but I didn't know what.  The fact that he never wanted children should have tipped me off to the N, but I was young.  I managed to extricate myself then.  He immediately took up with someone else and, actually, at the time, I saw it more as a relief than anything else. A few years later I married, had children, and was very happy. 

Many years later he contacted me through a social networking site, of course.  I had almost forgotten him.  His initial email appeared innocent.  I realize now that he worked me over.  He is a master manipulator. He claimed he was a published author and that he had written a book all about me - the love of his life.  The one he never forgot.  He sent me excerpts from his book. His emails became more and more intense until I caved and met him.  I fell for the flattery again (slow learner).  An affair ensued.  It was of course intense and passionate, but then became scary.  I didn't want to lose my marriage and my family and that was what was on the brink of happening.  I did lose my job, however.

Things were messy and awful.  I hired a PI.  It got crazy, but then finally ended.  He has moved on to another relationship.  While I feel lucky to have escaped relatively unscathed, I am left in the aftermath with the discovery of all his lies.  He is not an author.  There is no book and I was not the love of his life.  He maintained his story right to the end, even when confronted with the PI's report. 

[Sher]

I',m 55 and I feel like my life is over.  I feel very trapped and I need to get out of this hellhole.  My husband is a serial rapist out on parole.  He's a phycopath NPD.  I didn't know all this when we married 7.5 years ago.  He's sucked out my life, consumed me and I don't know how to get out.  My closest friends don't believe me when I try to tell them what a monster he is and how his incredible emotional, verbal, and mental abuse crosses all the lines into bazaar.  I have no money, no place to go, and I see no way out.  I don't know anyone that can help me leave and provide for me for a while till I can get a job, (in this economy, and I haven't worked for 7 years ? ? ?). I'm scared of what to do and afterwards.  I'm in disbelief and so angry at myself that I didn't see or recognize what he is before.  I'm so angry that nobody else did either.  He's a master actor, and even now, I don't understand why his "friends" don't see it.  Does the NPD, phycopath, ever get caught?  I need some practical answers, directions and plans.  There's so much more dynamics, but this is things in a nutshell for starters.

[Charlotte Z. Cavatica]

Greetings, Sunflower, Kedra, and Sher! We're glad you found us on the worldwide web. It's easy to get lost in cyberspace so we're delighted when anyone finds our barn and decides to stick around for a little while. Your journey back to yourself won't be pleasant but it will be worth all the time and energy it takes to Focus on You and get that narcissist out of your life.

At some point, each person Wakes Up and realizes how much time he or she wasted hoping the narcissist would change. They rarely do, to tell you the truth. Not that they can't but they don't see the benefit. There are so many fish in the sea and besides, narcissists would be loath to spend time in a lowly barn, wouldn't they?

"Not so much fun when your are almost forty and you feel lost again." ~Sunflower

There is no time limit on reclaiming your self, Sunflower. We can spend our entire lives running from one mess to another, confused and desperate and alienated from ourselves; or, we can spend our time working through our childhood or any other significant relationships wounded our sense of self-worth. I believe it is worthwhile to do whatever we must to continue growing until we take our final breath. We will never regret having faced our fears, taken responsibility for our mistakes, and continued to have faith and hope in ourselves. Never let your past define your future, Sunflower. You are a worthy and WoNderful woman and we are glad you've joined our community!

"I was in a relationship with him when I was young and again very recently." ~Kedra

Not so hard to imagine, Kedra! Narcissistic relationships end without closure which means we are still susceptible to their charms a second or third time because we never understood why the relationship ended the first time. Narcissists are charismatic (not all but most), they are charming, they mirror us so well, they lie through their teeth and they manage to manipulate people in the psychological profession. If professionals can be misled by someone with a narcissistic personality, where does that leave the rest of society?

You may want to read about malignant narcissism or even AsPD (antisocial personality disorder), Kedra. His behavior reflects a very serious pathology when narcissism crosses over into malignant narcissism. He was more conscious of his manipulation than the garden variety narcissist who may be oblivious to his or her deceit. If you have questions about the narcissistic continuum and why the man you were with might qualify for psychopathy, please join us on the General message board. You can also visit the WoN Library where we have a numerous articles on Psychopathy.

"I feel like my life is over." ~Sher

It may feel as though your life is over, Sher. It may feel overwhelming to think about your future and how you will be able to take care of yourself. Everyone suffers post-narcissist. Everyone. Some people have more challenging situations than others and from what you've written, you definitely have your hands full. As soon as you feel comfortable talking with forum members, please join them on the General Board. They can familiarize themselves with your situation by reading your first message. I believe you will find at least some of your answers by reaching out to board members.

Love,
Charlotte
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[happyfeet]

Year 1, month 1, week 1, hour 1, minute 1

I am back in this space again at the beginning or separation and recovery.

My story is this.

2.5 years ago I was widowed.  I was 40.  I was lost.  I spent 4.5 years trying to save my husband form colon cancer.  Before that I lost my father, my infant son, my sister-in-law, and my nephew (all within 7 years).  I was lonely and very sad.  I wanted to crawl into my bed and never come out.  Fortunately I could not.  I have a son, now 10 and a daughter, now 21.  I am very lucky.  They saved me.  I thought I was ready to try to love again.  I found J, my narcissist though I did not know he was at the time.  He was a widower and I thought he understood my pain.  He promised me the world.  We had so much fun together.  After the lows of dealing with all the of the deaths and my husbands illness J was my island.  He was my paradise.  He loved me and wanted to marry me.  He also had another woman in his life but he said he wanted a committed relationship with me.  We went about happily playing and planning a future together. 

I think my first sign came when he approached me before my birthday and asked if I minded if he went on a rafting trip with an old girlfriend on my birthday.  I was floored.  He recovered quickly and said ok no problem but how about if I went away for the weekend with S?  S is the woman he supposedly broke it off with when he wanted to be in a committed relationship with me.  Again I was floored.  How could he think that was okay?  We fought and broke up.  He could not understand why I thought it was inappropriate if he spent time away, in the same hotel room, with his old girl friends.  I also must add that J is a somatic narcissist.  I was positive he would be having sex with these women.  He told me sex with someone else was just sex.  It was meaningless.  He said it did not matter.  I do not believe sex with others has any part in a committed relationship.  (Call me old fashioned but it's what I believe.)  Also, if sex was meanless with them what was it with me?

Fast forward many hurts, many breakups.  S was the cause of my concern many times.  He would assure me she was out of his life then there she was always back.  He wanted to have her clean his apartment (I didn't do a good enough job).  He wanted to give her massages in his apartment (he's a massage therapist and he said he needed the practice).  He had sex with her (I found the condom wrapper in the trash at his place) when he said we were broken up.  I was not aware we had broken up, I guess he forgot to tell me.  He would complain about her then say she called him and wanted to take him to lunch for his birthday.  I explained that I felt threatened by her place in our relationship.  He didn't seem to be moved by my protests.  My feelings didn't matter. 

We started to fight more and more.  We fought about crazy stuff.  I couldn't seem to figure out what was right or wrong in his world.  I was always wrong.  It was always my fault.  I carried, according to him, the complete blame for whatever issue we were fighting over.  100% my fault, everytime.  I was selfish.  I could not love enough.  I had walls around my feelings and was distant.  He felt unloved.  He would leave and cut ties with great finality.  Then inevitably be it days or weeks, he came back.  He would contact me to say how his soul cried out for me.  He couldn't breath without me.  He would speak of suicide.  He knew my weaknesses.  He would be sweet for a while and giving then he would always go back to "true J".

So here I am today.  I have been reading so much about narcissism.  I get it now.  He didn't love me.  He wants to control me.  I have to be prepared for his next return.  I have read that the best course of action is to ignore his communication.  Even negative attention from me will be welcomed by him.  I need to cut off all attention and hope he learns that this well of "narcissistic supply" has run dry.  I pray that I can be strong and resist him.  It's tough.  fighting this is like fighting a drug addition.