the sexiest man alive

[Litha]

He was breathtakingly handsome as Mad Max, deliciously romantic as Braveheart, and was the first to receive the title "Sexiest Man Alive" from People Magazine, but he has revealed so much inner ugliness now that I am sickened by him.

Latest Mel Gibson Recording
“It’s absolutely classic behavior. Because he’s threatening to physically hurt her. Because he doesn’t listen to anything she says. Because he does all the talking. Because of the disgusting sexual comments. Because he’s accusing her of all the things that are so obviously present in his behavior, what you might call projection. Like, ‘You have no clucking soul.’ Yet he is behaving in such a soulless fashion throughout the tape.”

[Flower]

Nodding my head in agreement with all you posted, Litha.

I couldn't listen to the entire conversation as it was just too much for me....all that screaming and calling her the C word. So much projection on his part and when she suggested medication, Mel went ballastic. Of course, it wasn't his fault
and he screamed that she needed a brain transplant and ranted about all that he has done for her. He had even blasted her sexuality by yelling that she was dyfunctional cause she wasn't there at the jacuzzi exactly when he wanted her to give him a b....j..
She explained that she was tired from being up all night with the baby, but he would not even hear of it.

Then, there is this:

“I left my wife because we had no spiritual common ground.”
WTH????  

And then he accuses her more than once that she doesn't have a soul.  Yeah, right.  He is a classic alright.

[LettingGo]

I have my little girl in a nearby room so I can't even attempt to listen to the recording, but you two have said really does say it all. How did he play that role in Braveheart so well? He couldn't use the Method form of acting where he identifies w/the honorable character he portrayed so well. He must have created an entire other persona for himself and became enmeshed with -- too bad none of Braveheart character traits rubbed off on Mel.

The difference between the talented actor vs. the Malignant N becoming a different character/personality is that the talented actor/actress can not immediately switch back to their own personality w/out having some residual effects of the extremely dramatic & highly emotional scene they just experienced, nor can they immediately & completely come out of the character they fully immersed themselves into for the duration of the play or filming of the movie *, but a Malignant N can, thus the infamous Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde episodes. The transformations happen instantaneously from the Counterfeit Person to the NMonster and back again in an instant.
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7141.0.html

Frightening when the talented actor IS the Malignant N, Mel's gf and Xwife can testify he is nothing more than a insidious Counterfeit w/Classic Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde episodes which makes him a Malignant N and very dangerous not only to those who are closest to him, but the general public who continue to hold him in high regard despite his Pattern of Abuse which means he is KONning us all.

I have to remind myself that the Movie Passion of the Christ was a Collaborative Masterpiece. Although he directed it, he is NOT the Be All End All of this Awesome Movie.

Mel appears to be continuing the Legacy of Abuse by being the drunken abusive Spouse that his father was. I guess in a N's twisted mind Honoring a Malignant N Father means actually becoming a Malignant N. Ns inherit the N gene and the N environment of Hollywood brings it out to its fullest capacity. Even if Mel didn't choose Hollywood as his KoN he would have found another one in which he could reign.

[~Solo]

All I can say is.....absolutely NOTHING.   THAT is some of the same recordings that I have personally saved from my Nhusband yelling at me.  I will say that there were a lot more 'C' bombs flying than in mine but with SOME 'C' bombs nonetheless, the same accusations, vulgarity, rage, blame etc... the same!  So, this really is what a Narcissist is?!  I'm not alone, clearly.  It's so disheartening.  I don't know what their issues and or problems were but I do know what mine were and I NEVER deserved what is in my recordings!
...just horribly sad...

~Solo
  

[Litha]

Wow, you gals are braver than I am! It never occurred to me to actually listen to the recording, just the thought of doing so give me the PTSD-willies. I've endured too many face-to-face rages from Nm and exNPh and exNbf's to want to seek out more.

I don't even have to know the words, hearing that "tone" in a foreign language would be enough to churn my stomach.

I agree that he acts like an aging N, really sorry to see it though. I was a fan early on.

[Wren]

I also once held this guy in high regard.  What really upsets me in these latest taped rants is how there are so many people coming out of the woodwork defending him on certain sites.  The comments on these sites are the most telling of our own state of society in 2010.  The Daily Beast has a few articles with many of these pro Gibson comments.  Fortunately, there's many comments where I can see have left the abuse behind them or have always had healthy realionships where they wouldn't tolerate this behavior for one second.

There's the, we don't know both sides of the story -- she was pushing his buttons, a golddigger and a wh*re (even if so, men with money can be model diggers or body diggers, that's fine).  This to me shows different types:  True misogynists, totally naive people, and people always thinking people are only out for a dime.  I see both genders in this defense.

There's the co-dependents, where there is a lot of good in him and if only he had the right woman people.  They're also the "only if I had tried harder" people with their abusive ex.  They're extremely defensive and strike out at anyone who tries to shed light on true abuse.  They, the past victim, come off as an abuser themselves.

There's the true misogynist, who always feel the woman is the one to blame and violence against men are truly mis-reported, (which could hold truth of violence against men but they present it in such an abusive way.)  It sounds more like projection.

That's all I have for now, but he's toast as far as I'm concerned... oh, and Whoopie is an idiot.

[Flower]

Wren,

I don't know the facts either, but as I posted before, even if she was after his $$$, does not give Mel the right to call her such vile names with such vicious accusations. To me, it also sounded like Mel was having a drunken
meltdown. He no longer could control the situation with his g/f and child.

Also, I was amazed as well about all the people who were defending Mel. 

Did I miss something about Whoopie?

Flower

[CZBZ]

Loved your post, Wren. We should create a list using your descriptions! Who hasn't confronted misogyny to some degree? We might even find a few twisted thoughts about women ourselves.

Hugs,
CZ

[LettingGo]

Even if Barbie was a gold digger, Mel shouldn't have abused her. Abuse is NEVER justified--NEVER! I hope she now has strong evidence to get a settlement for her and her child and hopefully doesn't run back into that burning house.
Thing is she went into his marriage w/the intent to find leverage to pull him away from a 35yr long-term marriage, hence her child that was purposely born out of wed lock. Now Mel was not kicking and screaming and resisting by no means and he is responsible for destroying his marriage, but does that mean the mistress lacks responsibility for her choice? She knew he was no Prince Charming and that he is abusive, so as the saying goes, when you play w/fire you will get burned. She knew his history, don't kid yourself on that one. Her story is NOT the same as those of us who fall in love w/a Counterfeit Prince who deceives and falsely represents himself and there are no huge big red flags warning  

I am sure Mel told her lots of stories of the "crazy wife", but the FACTS speak for themselves a 35yr Marriage -- in Hollywood, plus his abusive history w/different people. Yes, I know everyone is lying, BUT Mel. This woman was NOT deceived, the clear evidence was all around her. She chose to play w/fire. Being in the Hollywood scene, she knows more than the general public about Mel's abusive behavior and I never met the Man, but after his first reported rages I knew he was  .  It is one thing for a woman to be deceived like Mel's wife, but it is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT when you KNOW a person loves to play w/fire and you think to yourself oh that looks fun, he burns everyone around him, but I'm different, he wont burn me. If you tell Barbie fire is extremely hot and dangerous, it burned this person and this person and this one and that one and that one over there, so don't touch it and she ignores all the warnings and evidence and plays w/fire and gets a 2nd degree burn, then that is a NATURAL CONSEQUENCE.

Fact: Fire Burns. Some life lessons leave burns. Painfully sad, but true. It is the price we pay for being Foolish. If my friend does not pay attention to the warning signs from her car saying it needs oil and she destroys the engine and has no car, I agree with her, you're right that was not smart to ignore the warnings and I know you wont do it again. Hey by the way I am going to the store would you like to come along or is there something else you need? Showing Mercy and Grace does not mean we Pardon Stupidity. If you love someone, you hold them accountable. I guess that is what I am having trouble with, I don't hear too many people holding "Barbie" accountable.

We don't empower Women by relieving them of their responsibility for making TERRIBLE CHOICES. We empower them by educating them about how to avoid making terrible choices and when they do make a terrible choice, like we all do to some degree or another, to accept responsibility for the role they played. If there is a pattern to their poor choices to accept that it is there and figure out why it exist (unfinished business from the past, not valuing Self because parents never did, etc). Mel is a big hideous rattle serpent. She saw all the warning signs she heard the rattle and the serpent did what serpent do, it attacked. Does that mean I would refuse Barbie healing for her wound, NO of course not. I would most likely be one of the first to respond and part of her healing would include exploration on why she is attracted to serpents, how to detect and avoid serpents and when you hear the rattle or hiss, don't go and take a closer look, slowly move away and don't turn your back to the serpent. It is not about being an "I told you so" person. What is done is done, how do you avoid from doing it again? The world is full of poisonous serpents.

[Wren]

Letting Go, you're exactly what I'm speaking about.  It's not normal under any circumstances.  I could care less what his ex-girlfriend ever did or her motives.

Ex N's family created so many motives for me.  He had much more money than I.  I look back now, and I can't believe I put up with such cr*p until he eventually punched me in the nose.  What a wake-up call.  I'm thankful for that.

Society wants women to be married, I see that.  I don't see any value in it though these days other than share legal expenses.  Newsweek had an article a few weeks ago about how women spend 7 hours more a week picking up after their spouse and cleaning.  I quickly pointed it out to my neice while traveling on the suburban train to Chicago in our trek to the Art Institute.  I tried to get her interested in art, but to no avail.  She only wanted the trip to Chicago and the boat tour... and of course, a trip to Water Tower shopping mall.  I hope I helped her in any small way I could.

[Wren]

LettingGo, you remind me so much of my sister.  She's been hijacked by her husband and always places blame on the victim.  She is a victim, but doesn't realize it.  He has that family under his thumb 24/7.  When my father sends me a picture of their girlls, I shake my head.  I feel so sorry for them.  It's oppression 24/7 for them.  The youngest is going against the grain at a very early age. 

[LettingGo]

Wren, maybe you missed the first sentence, so I will repeat it.

Even if Barbie was a gold digger, Mel shouldn't have abused her. Abuse is NEVER justified--NEVER! I hope she now has strong evidence to get a settlement for her and her child and hopefully doesn't run back into that burning house.

There is a HUGE difference between blaming the victim vs. holding her accountable for the responsibility she had in the relationship NOT for the abuse she endured by her attacker. I hope you can see the difference. Barbie represents many of the OW Members of WoN have N-countered. The OW knows the N is an abusive person, YET she plays w/a serpent and wants everyone to have empathy for her stupidity. I do not have empathy for her, but I do have sympathy for what she endured. I also have sympathy for her making a stupid choice, because I have made stupid choices too, Who hasn't? I just don't have empathy for this obviously stupid choice.
Sympathy essentially implies a feeling of recognition of another's suffering while empathy is actually sharing another's suffering, if only briefly. Empathy is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes". Because I am not N-chanted by Serpents, those who are obviously harmful, I can not put myself in her shoes. A Counterfeit Prince deceives and is very different than a Serpent who everyone knows is dangerous. A Counterfeit Prince does not have a rattle to warn before it strikes. One feels empathy when one has "been there" and sympathy when one hasn't. I had two Serpent Parents and I have dated the Counterfeit Prince and had Counterfeit Friends, and there is an obvious difference between those who are obviously evil and those who deceptively hide it.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Empathy_vs_Sympathy

It is one thing to be in a house when the house catches fire, it is something completely different to see a house is on fire and say to yourself, that's a great place to live, I am Super Woman and I can put out the fire, doesn't matter that others spent 35 years trying to put the fire, and reinforcements came along and tried to put out the fire and instead over time the fire turns into an uncontrollable raging inferno. Barbie getting burned is a blessing, because the pain should motivate her to leave this burning house. Can you imagine if she didn't get badly burned and instead inhaled all the deadly fumes, ambient abuse, and her life was taken from her? This way she has a chance to escape the raging fire of Nism and live. Remember that little frog who slowly boiled to death?

Just because I do not empathize w/the stupidity of a person that causes them to willingly run into a house that is obviously on fire or play w/a deadly serpent, does not mean that I don't have compassion for the person who was burned or struck. And it does NOT mean I blame the victim for the attack. The difference between your viewpoint and mine is that you see Barbie as a innocent victim and I do not. Victim yes, she did not deserve abuse. Innocent no, she willingly and purposely played w/an evil serpent and put herself into striking range.

Wren, It is okay to Agree to Disagree about how we see things in life. Just because I don't see things 100% your way does not give you the right to assume things about me, my marriage or my life. You do not know me and because I don't think or view things exactly like you do does not mean that you should compare me to your Sister who you obviously have a lack of respect. The problems you have w/her or how she lives her life should not be Transfered to me. I do not know your sister or her husband, but my husband is amazing. Stick around. Read more of my posts and maybe you will have a better & more accurate understanding of me and my husband.

[Wren]

Letting Go, I never mentioned your husband, I mentioned my sister's.  She did get caught up in something I simply do not understand, but now suddenly she's an expert on everything.  She's also a religious fraud just to please her hubby.  She's extremely judgmental and kicked me in the gut while I was down several years ago.  I personally think it's because she's not happy herself...  being a fraud takes up so much energy.  If I saw her on the street, I wouldn't even look at her.

This is where you remind me of my sister:
You don't think people could be in two N relationships in their lifetime without necessarily being stupid?  I find that offensive, but I can take it.  I worry what others may feel though.  Letting Go, what are your blaring warning signs of a serpent?  Yes, for some of us, they're obvious now.  Also, "your feeling the fire analogy"?  I guess you haven't read about the boiling frog analogy?  Every relationship starts out differently with an entirely separate set of circumstances.  See, unless one's a little more in tune, there's a chance of getting stewed again.  This is all without mentioning what FOO one comes from, etc.

Must be nice to be so smug.  She said the same type of things toward other women.  Oh, and did she revel in smear campaigns. I may have made mistakes in my life but I wouldn't trade mine for hers for all the tea in China.  She can have that high horse of hers.

I've known many people on this site for several years, I'm not just some simpleton off the street.  I would tell you to stick around to get to know me, but I don't comment much here anyway.  Good luck, kiddo -- LOL!

[Wren]

I also didn't say "Barbie" was an innocent victim, geez.  xN told me his x was crazy.  His family said she was crazy.  I fell for this village idiot when he told me he loved me.  When things unfolded, everyone said, "Oh, and you believed him in the beginning?"  Later I found out his history of past relationships, all trouble due to him and his fruitcake family, but yet they were trying to convince me he would be a different person with someone else.  Yeah, right.  I guess the mother had forgotten that she pulled me aside in the beginning warning me that DM runs on her side of the family.  I thought she was crazy (she actually was).  So see, I literally ran inside a burning house.  See how easy it is?  I was 40 too, not 20 something.

This entire thing with Mel disgusts me mostly due to the blatant misogyny I see on all the boards.  Wh*re, c*nt, sl*t, skank, etc., rolls off so many keyboards effortlessly, for men and women.  I find it very triggering and sad.  There's far too many people out there who don't understand what abuse is or how it just doesn't happen overnight.  I also don't believe Mel's exwife, Robyn, whatsoever.  Perhaps she doesn't think a shove or such is abuse just because he didn't full out punch her.

[Freezer Burned]

There's far too many people out there who don't understand what abuse is or how it just doesn't happen overnight.  I also don't believe Mel's exwife, Robyn, whatsoever.  Perhaps she doesn't think a shove or such is abuse just because he didn't full out punch her.

She is still in divorce proceedings with him, if I were her, I certainly would not be saying anything that might tick him off, or might make the OW's case stronger.

[Flower]

This thread is reminding me how manipulating and covert a narcissistic person can be.

What is the truth between Mel and his g/f? Speculation is widespread about Mel, his g/f and about his wife. Whether or not is g/f was/is after his fortune, she does not deserve to be called such vile names.
I am sorry if I offended you, Wren, when I typed out the specific name that Mel called his g/f, but I was trying to show just how deep Mel's temper and vileness was, often evident in a narcissistic rage.
IMO, it is the most disgusting name a woman can be called.

Think back how manipulative how narcissistic individuals can be and Mel is no exception. I can just imagine what he told that g/f about his ex and she believed it cause he dazzled her with charm, flattery and
all the in-the-beginning trappings that come along with a narcissistic person. Who knows what Mel told this gal. Could it have been: "I've stayed legally married cause of the children. My wife is crazy and I can't
find my way out of the marriage.  No one understands me like you do and I've become a changed man cause of you."

With that gal's looks, she could have had just about any guy in Hollywood, so Mel must have turned on his fake gallantry and bs on big time.

Like many N abusers, the violence is often evident until later. I am willing to bet that Me's wife was abused by him, but put up with it for whatever reasons beknown to her.
I am hoping she gets $$$$ in a divorce settlement. She deserves it, not only cause she was married to him all these years, but IMO, she probably ignored the scores of flings he had. Not for one minute do I believe
that this ow was the first one.

Let me tell ya if I hadn't had my head screwed on tight, I could have had a fling with Stalker N or even Coworker N. It isn't that difficult to be tangled into a web of deception with a truly predatory N because they
are sooo good at sucking in their targets and playing on their weaknesses.  If I hadn't known about narcissism and also listened to my gut, I would have been sucked in as well.  The big red flag was Stalker N's line when
I was his caseworker because it violated boundaries. And then he got so desparate, he showed up at my house with a pretense of being work related.

And, Wren, your words:

Every relationship starts out differently with an entirely separate set of circumstances

That is why I am not so quick to judge women who find themselves in abusive or difficult relationships. IMO, many women are duped into relationships, following their hearts rather than their heads. That is why
it is so important to know about narcissism and the stereotypes about narcisisstic individuals that are often not true. 

Hug, Flower

 

[LettingGo]

There is a HUGE difference between blaming the victim vs. holding her accountable for the responsibility she had in the relationship NOT for the abuse she endured by her attacker. I hope you can see the difference.

She's extremely judgmental and kicked me in the gut while I was down several years ago.  I personally think it's because she's not happy herself...  being a fraud takes up so much energy.  If I saw her on the street, I wouldn't even look at her.~Wren

Wren I am so sorry she did this to you. I do know what it is like to be kicked in the gut by a Sister who should have been there for you when you needed her. Nsibs suck!   I did not know my Sis was a N until this year. She had always been selfish and our relationship one-sided w/me pretty much always doing for her. That D&D brings clarity doesn't it. If I hadn't been reading & writing, listening & learning about Nism I would have probably wrote off her D&D w/that is the way it has always been, her being so self-centered and ego centric. Regarding my Nsibs it was definitely a slow boil.

Again, the abuse Barbie endured was not deserved, gold-digger or not. There is NEVER justification for abuse NEVER.

LettingGo, you remind me so much of my sister.  She's been hijacked by her husband and always places blame on the victim.  She is a victim, but doesn't realize it.  He has that family under his thumb 24/7.  When my father sends me a picture of their girlls, I shake my head.  I feel so sorry for them.  It's oppression 24/7 for them.  The youngest is going against the grain at a very early age. Letting Go, you're exactly what I'm speaking about~Wren

Let me say that when someone says that I remind them of someone they hate, and then go and say all the reasons that they hate that person that is a huge   for me. You said I reminded me of your Sis and then said how terrible she and her husband are & treated you. I was born into the KoN so I do know when I am being attacked even in a covert way.

Barbie reminds me of the girls in high school who allowed the Counterfeit Prince to destroy their relationships with their friends. They allowed the Counterfeit to come between them. They witnessed how the Counterfeit mistreated their friend when she was dating him, all the hell he put her through, then he goes after his girlfriend's "friend" Barbie who falls for his N-chantment Spell and dates him knowing very well that it will destroy her relationship w/her friend. These shallow girls, who lack loyalty, become the plastic Barbie dolls that will stab you in the back if it means getting what they want. Barbie, like these shallow high school girls, knew that the guy treated people badly because she saw it w/her own eyes, and heard it with her own ears. These Barbie Dolls are hallow inside because they lack self-esteem, self-worth, personal power & respect, etc, which gives them the ability to betray their friends. Barbie Dolls become Counterfeit Friends to other Women that can have dinner w/their friend & her husband one moment, then turn around and have sex w/the husband in the martial bed while the wife is at work. Ns are evil, they enjoy getting others to compromise themselves beyond recognition. The point I am trying to make is that the N can not get us to compromise w/out our consent. It takes our consent to compromise our Self. When someone says something about me that is obviously not true, I no longer give their lies weight. I confront them, but I don't lose sleep over them because they are false.

Wren from what you said,

Later I found out his history of past relationships, all trouble due to him and his fruitcake family, but yet they were trying to convince me he would be a different person with someone else.

The info on your Ns abusive behavior came mostly post N-chantment not prior to it like in Barbies case. There is a difference.

You don't think people could be in two N relationships in their lifetime without necessarily being stupid?  I find that offensive, but I can take it.~Wren

You are putting words in my mouth that I NEVER said and DEFINITELY DON'T BELIEVE. I have dated the Counterfeit Prince, unfortunately more than once, so I know how strong the N-chantment Spell can be. I know how they can slowly turn up the heat and one compromise leads to a greater compromise. With Barbie she knew she was not getting a Prince Charming. She knew he has a history of abuse and still decided to enter into a relationship w/a Serpent. Again, the abuse she suffered is never justified. If she never sees the responsibility she had is choosing a Serpent, then she will choose another one, and another because she lacks responsibility for the relationship she selected. Responsibility for the abuse always belongs w/the N. Finding yourself choosing one toxic relationship after another is a pattern that can not be ignored. It is not fair to Self to do so. This is why it is highly recommended that after leaving the KoN and starting w/the day you maintain NC you should not date for at least one year. This year is for Self, so that we can discover where the wholes lie within us so that the next Counterfeit can not come along and hook us w/his/her N-chantment. This year is about finishing unfinished business most likely from our FOO, which was my case. Until I patched up the past, it would leak out contaminate my present and future relationships.

I agree completely w/Flower,

Think back how manipulative how narcissistic individuals can be and Mel is no exception. I can just imagine what he told that g/f about his ex and she believed it cause he dazzled her with charm, flattery and
all the in-the-beginning trappings that come along with a narcissistic person. Who knows what Mel told this gal. Could it have been: "I've stayed legally married cause of the children. My wife is crazy and I can't
find my way out of the marriage.  No one understands me like you do and I've become a changed man cause of you."

I understand completely how Mel brought on the charm and went after his next victim. The N-chantment is not only about the lies the Counterfeit tells, but more importantly the lies we tell our Self. What kind of lies did Barbie tell herself in order to throw all reason out the window and ignore all the info she knew about Mel =  

Let me tell ya if I hadn't had my head screwed on tight, I could have had a fling with Stalker N or even Coworker N. It isn't that difficult to be tangled into a web of deception with a truly predatory N because they
are sooo good at sucking in their targets and playing on their weaknesses.  If I hadn't known about narcissism and also listened to my gut, I would have been sucked in as well.  The big red flag was Stalker N's line when
I was his caseworker because it violated boundaries. And then he got so desparate, he showed up at my house with a pretense of being work related. ~Flower

How does Barbie go about building a strong core Self, get her "head screwed on tight", so next time she doesn't get N-chanted and ignore all the loud sirens and huge red flags?

For me to leave the KoN, it was not only listening & learning about Nism, it was valuing my Self. It was educating myself about Counterfeit Toxic Love vs. Authentic Love. It is realizing that True Love is not something you chase after or have to earn, or even have to convince Self that you have in your relationship. It was about recognizing my role in the KoN. If I never recognized that I was wearing a big red cape, then I would never have been able to take it off and change my life. I thought (1) that my love could change the N (2) if I could not change the N, then I could be strong enough to deal with the attacks. It was only until last year that I discovered rediscover there is another choice (because I had gone N/C w/the N before) (3) I could leave the N and value myself and the quality of my life & the life of my family (H & D). Self must be strong to face the very painful truth that the N does not love me (who ever the N is in each one of our lives). Until we accept the one truth, that the N loves me Not, we will continue to tell ourselves numerous lies that the N loves me. Instead of searching for false evidence that is only an illusion that S/He Love me, we need to change our focus and consider the painful alternative of S/He loves me NOT. When we dare to consider S/He love me Not we can begin to objectively count the evidence, Which list is longer? -- S/He love me or S/He love me Not. For me, the evidence became so very painfully clear that S/He loves me Not. I had to let the Illusion die of S/He love me and accept the Reality that S/He love me Not. In addition to accepting that there is not a thing I can do about that.

[Wren]

Thanks, Flower, I agree.  No, no, no, it was nothing you said, I was mainly upset about what I see on the blogs.  The Daily Beast at least has some intelligent conversation as well as Huffingtonpost.  If you check out TMZ's comments, you're sure to run into a burning house, LOL.  It makes me so sad to see these flippant comments.  They could be MG's shills and astroturf for all we know, right?  Regardless, this public acceptance and blaming the victim should be in the past by now in our own country.  I can understand entirely how rape goes so under-reported.

I also want to explain why I don't comment much here anymore -- it has more to do with not going through a divorce or child custody, etc.  I don't know much about it.  I also don't feel the deep feelings I once had for xN, so it's hard to help the freshly hurt.  But, every now and then there is a trigger and this time it wasn't Mel Gibson, but not as much as the backlash against his ex girlfriend with "HIS" baby daughter.  Property.  It made me very upset and even my best friend was somewhat questioning the woman after hearing the abuse on the recording.  He's lived a very sheltered life.  As much as I try to explain things to him, he doesn't ever listen because it's never applied to him.  He's the same way about voting situations, I'll say, "This person is very much against women's issues."  He doesn't care, it doesn't apply to him!  It's so frustrating to me.  I care about many issues that don't necessarily apply to me directly.  I tend to go with what is right.

LettingGo, I never said I hated anyone.  There's disappointment in people who I thought I had a bond with only to learn they have rewritten history for their own means.  My sister is in a trap, she transferred a lot of her childhood and marital disappointments onto me.  I can see that now.  I was six years older, but I was never her mother.  Don't think I don't know about transference.

Today, I'm not the same person when I first met CZ, but triggering names and enabling of abuse that I see on other boards are depressing me.  I thought I was stronger than that, but obviously not.  I had more faith in our culture, I guess I always do, how stupid of me.

You're preaching to the choir in most of what you say, you just feel a little condescending, that's all.  Many of us here are not stupid.  That was a red flag for me without the fancy graphic.    OBTW, I'm sure your FOO has nothing on mine, LOL.

No hard feelings.

[Flower]

Whew! Now that clarifies it for me, Wren, thank you.

I don't have the personal experience of divorcing a N or the added responsibility of children with a N either. So, I feel I can't contribute as much as those who have been there. Therefore, I keep my fingers still on that topic, LOL!
Furthermore and likewise, I don't have any emotional attachments to the Ns who were in my life, but let me tell ya, two of them were fun to be around with, but both had their own agendas. Nevertheless, it wasn't worth it to be being lied to and to be used.

With Mel and so many others like him, it is all about control and this having to be in control manifests itself in so many ways.

And with:  He doesn't care, it doesn't apply to him!"
So many people are like that really. If it doesn't affect their wallet or pocketbook, it doesn't matter. Where I live, the governor proposed a tax on beer and soda to balance the budget. People went nutz defending their right to drink beer and soda, LOL.  Then,the governor brought up another proposal to cut mental health funding and the only opposition to that was those who were in the mental health field.

LettingGo,

IMO, the Counterfeit Prince is usually a N with evil intentions. I had a front row seat to observing a Counterfeit Prince where I work and I have no doubt that he has NPD. Although he was not evil in the sense of being a rapist or murderer,
I could write a book on his evil manipulations and selfishness on the pretense of "helping."

I am not sure I follow you here: What should Mel's g/f take responsiblility for in the relationship? Yes, she slept with the guy, yet that doesn't justify his abuse.  I can only speculate that Mel was thinking he would be able to control her every move. With a gal that gorgeous and into the Hollywood scene, that isn't going to happen.


And  your question:
How does Barbie go about building a strong core Self, get her "head screwed on tight", so next time she doesn't get N-chanted and ignore all the loud sirens and huge red flags?

It depends on the person. Some people are unable to get their head screwed on straight even if they go to counselling, due to their life history or mental health conditions such as BPD or HPD or even NPD. I consider myself lucky as I was born with a strong resolve.  Other women may not be as so stubborn as I am, LOL, or even able to listen to their intuition.  Building a strong core self requires hard work and an ability to see the big picture.  Not all women are able to do that.  Some women learn after one or more involvements with a N and some women don't learn. Those who don't EVER learn are the ones with serious mental health issues and usually crave the roller coaster ride only a narcisist can bring.

Flower

[LettingGo]

LettingGo, I never said I hated anyone.  There's disappointment in people who I thought I had a bond with only to learn they have rewritten history for their own means.  My sister is in a trap, she transferred a lot of her childhood and marital disappointments onto me.  I can see that now.  I was six years older, but I was never her mother.  Don't think I don't know about transference.~Wren

Okay hate is a strong word. I tend to use strong words from time to time. When you talk about your Sis a very strong dislike more than just a disappointment comes across to me. It is hard to admit that you dislike your own Sis, I know that very well. We have much more in common than you think. I have a med level Nsis who uses her FOO, D&Ds, does the smear campaign on each one of us, then after a few years of NC she calls & this last time actually begged for help. I would have turned her two-faced using self away, but there were the children and she is not above using her children to gain what she wants. That is the way she does things. In the past we held her super-sized Nh responsible for her manipulations, smear campaigns & D&Ds, and now we see she has an active part in all of this too. I am also the oldest and was the displaced child who fulfilled the role of the absent Parent. I was put in the Maternal role and I also did my best to deflect the abuse off of my younger Sibs and onto myself when the Momster went on her attacks. There is tons of Transference and Projection that goes on in the KON. My Sibs to this day expect me be Super Woman and run interference for them in dealing with the Momster. I took off the big red cape and resigned my role last year when I finally went NC -- and they did not like that. Misery loves company. The icing on this toxic cake is that although I have always been there for my Sibs, the two times in my life, last year and the beginning of this year when I called one of my Sibs and asked her to join me in the hospital while my H had a very scary emergency she was too busy to get away. We were in a County Hospital and she had plenty of time to show up and she never did. Then about 30 days from that I had an emergency and my H asked her to be with me and she get this "was been fasting all week and has been looking forward to this conference where she needs a word from God" and she refused to show up during a very scary time in my life.  This was a Too Painful to Ignore Moment when I realized she was more than just selfish she is a N (I came to that light bulb moment thanks to WoN) Again in my entire life I have only asked her to do (3) things and the last two were so very important and she flat out abandoned me in my hour of need. I know that sounds dramatic, but it was a very scary time and I needed the comfort of my Sister who was suppose to have insight to what I was going through, yet flat out abandoned me. I have always been there for her for big things and small and she just refused to be there for me when I felt like I was losing my mind. So strongly disliking your Nsibs -- oh wow I so get that!

You're preaching to the choir in most of what you say, you just feel a little condescending, that's all.  Many of us here are not stupid.  That was a red flag for me without the fancy graphic.~Wren

I have NEVER called anyone here at WoN stupid. I very much value my friends at WoN and would NEVER do that. Barbie selecting an obviously dangerous Serpent/Man is stupid and I have said I have done some stupid things too, just not this particular stupid thing, so I don't see how I am being condescending.

IMO, the Counterfeit Prince is usually a N with evil intentions ~Flower

We are in agreement 100%! A Counterfeit Prince is just as evil as a Serpent, one could argue more so because of his deception of his false image. The Counterfeit is a Serpent in disguise. The difference between the Counterfeit and the Serpent is that the Serpent is obviously dangerous due to his/her known history of abuse, has a rattle shakes his rattle loudly before he strikes where a Counterfeit hides his rattle, there is no warning to his/her attacks yet the fangs are just as vicious and deadly. I grew up w/Serpents and Counterfeits they are the same evil beast only the Serpent doesn't hide who s/he really is and the Counterfeit does very well.

I have trouble relating to Barbie Doll Women who are pretty on the outside and so hallow on the inside that they betray their best friend for the Counterfeit Prince who was exposed as an evil Serpent. IMO these Barbie Dolls are Ns because they witness how others are attacked by the Serpent and think to themselves well s/he attacks everyone else, but not me.

 

I am not sure I follow you here: What should Mel's g/f take responsiblility for in the relationship? Yes, she slept with the guy, yet that doesn't justify his abuse.~Flower

She is responsible for choosing an obviously dangerous Man -- NOT the abuse that followed. Barbie knew she was not getting a Prince Charming. She knew he has a history of abuse and still decided to enter into a relationship w/a Serpent. Again, the abuse she suffered is never justified. If she never sees the responsibility she had in choosing a Serpent, then she will choose another one, and another because she lacks responsibility for the relationship she selected. Responsibility for the abuse always belongs w/the N. Finding yourself choosing one toxic relationship after another is a pattern that can not be ignored.

When you are actively involved in the KON the pattern recognition that you should be focused on is the N's. Ns are always responsible for the abuse they do to others. ONLY when you are safely out of the KON and have been solid NC for awhile and know that you are not in any way responsible for the abuse you endured in the KON should you begin to examine if there is a pattern to selecting & having relationships w/Counterfeits. You must only do this after you have successfully left the KON as CZ has said about anger, acceptance & forgiveness do not put the cart before the horse. I thought it was on that thread but can not find it?
  no hard feeling here either.

[CZBZ]

Everyone brings up valid points worth thinking about, even if we sometimes find it hard to put our thoughts in words. I know how it is to write a comment and then post an additional comment that might be misconstrued. Especially when people are unfamiliar with one another's backstory. I appreciate how everyone worked together to clarify any misconceptions which is perfect. When there's a ? about what someone meant, we need to ask if our interpretation is accurate. This is a positive and healthy way to deal with anything that sounds like an insult...Ask Questions. Which is definitely a risk too because hey, maybe they truly intended to insult you.  Most times not though.

I agree that healing requires taking responsibility for our mistakes, our foolishness and our stupidity. Sure, there are cultural, social, etc. factors that influence our decisions but even so, we ultimately take responsibility for our choices. Even the really dumb ones like hooking up with a movie star and assuming he wouldn't cheat, beat or treat us as lousily as he treated his first wife.

I see this as one of women's bigger problems today: bonding and trusting one another by UNLEARNING the competition we were taught to keep us separated from one another. It's the oldest trick in the book, isn't it? To pit people who truly NEED one another, against one another? As long as women believe the 'wife' is mentally ill, selfish, complaining, bitchy, nagging, horrid and worthy of a hangin' or a slow boil over a firepit, other women will fall for the narcissist's 'line'. Narcissists aren't that creative you know, they build on what's already in our culture which we don't even realize we've been programmed to believe!

Admitting you were stupid and fell for the narcissist's ruse is hard to do but ultimately, no matter whether you were raised in an abusive family of origin, an oppressive culture or religious environment, etc. you eventually take responsibility for your choices in order to grow and heal.

Excusing a woman for having an affair with a married man for whatever reasons is NOT helping her. It cripples her, really. She can gain 'insight' into why she did what she did (as we all do during the healing process---we understand, our awareness increases, we accept that we did not know what we couldn't know and we forgive ourselves for our mistakes) but we cannot move forward without being humbled enough to admit our choices were foolish and 'wrong'.

The only caveat I can add to this thread is that this process may take a long time...being accused of being foolish (which I was!) too soon in my healing process was cruel, really. There's a time for this insight to suddenly push us forward and when it is time, our psyche will tell us. That's kinda how I look at it.


Hugs,
CZ

[LDW]

Does anyone know why his ex-wife divorced him? Appearantly she backs him up saying he never abused her or their children...
 

[LettingGo]

She most likely has a warped definition of abuse, kind of like "I never had sex w/that woman"~ former US President Clinton. As we all know, Ns get worse w/time, but not even the best of them can keep a mask on for 35 years w/out it slipping.

[Freezer Burned]

Does anyone know why his ex-wife divorced him? Appearantly she backs him up saying he never abused her or their children...

I read that they had been separated for 2 or 3 years and when she found out that he moved Oxana into a house near the family home, maybe in the same neighborhood, she filed for divorce.  The divorce is still not finalized. IMHO - to claim abuse now might antagonize Mel and delay the divorce and also might help Oxana's case and funnel more money her direction which might mean less money for the wife.

[LDW]

ahaa that explains it...

wow... these tapes are very triggering... my exN's father was a misogynist as well... wow.. the hatred... good thing he has his reputation to think of otherwise he would have brutally killed her already...