How did it end for you?

[Jacintae]

Ah gosh - I am back again.

It is early in the morning here in London. I lie in bed thinking about all the wonderful responses and wisdom on this board and I jump out to get on my laptop and reread a whole thread again. And it gives me great comfort. 

I am so very happy at times to see how I am moving along the road to recovery from Nism. I sit and recall the phases I have been through. Those first magical days with the N when I thought I really had met my soul mate. Then the devaluation that I tried so hard to ignore. I had a spell of going to 'psychic readers' in a desperate effort to find comfort that my future with the N would be fine.  I went back to church and went to Mass daily for over a year, praying so very hard to God that things would work out for us. When I saw blatant devaluation - I only prayed harder that it was just me who was misreading the situation. Sometimes when I felt completely distraught and hopeless, I even began to believe that my faith in God was being tested so I only prayed harded that 'things would come right'. I really did have such an illogical period of 'magical thinking'.

Then I found out about Nism. Yes, all the signs were there for me but even then I lived in denial. To this day I think my denial started to slip when I visited the grave of my dead Dad and asked him to help me. That night I dreamt that I was standing at his grave and he was there with me and handed me a yellow rose. The image of that yellow rose became very important to me and I set a yellow rose in my garden and it is a very special place for me.

And then there is this site. I do at times believe that it was a gift from God to me - in answer to all those prayers that I thought fell on Deaf Ears.

But anyway. I was wondering something. I am now NC but still not indifferent to the N. I know I will never see him again. But at times, yes, the stove is still hot for me.

Could I ask? If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you? Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else? Or as you move through life are you still aware that the scars of the N will always be with you? Maybe it's different for everyone but I just wondered.

Love to all

Jac xx

[peartree]

Could I ask? If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you? Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else? Or as you move through life are you still aware that the scars of the N will always be with you? Maybe it's different for everyone but I just wondered.
 
hi jac,
i wouldnt say i was completely "over" the N i had in my life but i'm kinda ok with that. i think for me its about acceptance of how things are, realising he will always confuse me and scare me and i'll wonder what his motives were and what his behav meant but am trying to make peace with those Qs and live with them rather than fight them.i think i will always be aware (i think the N i knew was a covert type) that people arent always what they seem (theres sadness about that but its reality)and also just learn the lessons i.e boundaries and not believing what someone says if have doubts and go with red flags i sense etc.holding onto own power and not giving it away to try and get approval etc. value me etc.i do ponder about him alot but dont yearn for him or miss him exactly. its was a painful chapter in my life (i was emotionally unfaithful to my husband and distracted from family life)and i have to live with my mistakes but i just take strength from having learnt from them.

hope you are doing ok today
peartree x x x x

[Jacintae]

Thank you so much, Peartree. That is a very wise post indeed. I think I too am changing - for the better hopefully. And I am getting much more positive about life again.

One of the things that used to really haunt me was how I met the N. I was on a weekend residential course on a campus. A girl I knew vaguely had overbooked her subjects and could not attend all the lectures she wanted to go to. I met her and lent her my notes of the lectures she had missed. She said she would copy them and call to my room and return them that evening. I was actually in bed that night when I remembered my notes and got up again and got dressed and went off to her room to find them. There was a note of her door saying that she was in the bar. I went in there to look for her and my notes and within five mins, I had been introduced to the N.

I have often thought if only that day had gone differently, how different my life would have been and all the heartache I would have been saved. But even that is fading now - you know I still have the scars but definitely the bleeding has stopped.

And I an so, so grateful for all the help I have had on here. Really, I have gotten my life back in here and I bless everyone who posts here.

Love
Jac xx

[tango3]

Jac

Well I was married to N for 23 years.  He walked out in Feb 09, didn't bother to tell me for three days that he had left!  It was a really rough three or four months but I filed for divorce in May 09.  Ya know if someone kicks me to the curb I'm not going to lie down in the gutter and die! 

As for the actual moment when I looked at N and "knew"?  Our son tried to commit suicide in September 09.  I drove down to DC from NY through the night with my oldest son, broke all speed records to get there.  My oldest and my daughter were both trying to contact N throughout the night - he finally deigned to answer his phone Sunday morning (I'd already been in DC for five hours).  Later Sunday I drove back to NY (eldest son had to work on Monday), then Monday I drove back down to DC - N didn't arrive in DC until Sunday evening so Monday was the first time I'd clapped eyes on him in months.  So there we were, at the hospital on a psych ward, not ONCE did he ask how I was, where I was staying, or if I had enough money (he knew I didn't as he had refused to send me money for six weeks).  I  remember standing there, staring at him, thinking "you have NO class".  That feeling was cemented the next day when I texted him asking him to buy an electric razor for his son - he texted back that if L needed to shave he could borrow his (ick!!!!).  I texted back that "no, I didn't want razor blades in the house".  His reply was "well do you think you can keep everything away from him?".  I don't think I even dignified his response with a reply!  The next day I heard him tell my son that he'd had to go out and buy a whole bunch of new clothes because he hadn't brought enough clothes with him!  Most normal people would have found a laundromat or availed themselves of the hotel valet service - not N - he had to go on a shopping spree - and no, he never bought the electric razor.

As for the scars, well I think I will always have them, they will be a constant reminder to NOT ignore the red flags. 

[kericoba3]

     My ending was much more gradual I think.  I can still remember being overwhelmed with passion and love for my soulmate, the one I had looked for always, but now was "lucky" to find.  I, too, ignored so many red flags and things that made me know so early on that this wasn't normal or good for me.  I kept hoping it would just get better but in fact it got worse.  I was desperate for him to love me the way I loved him and did many things that I am not proud of just to gain his attention.  He moved himself and his children in with me and things just unraveled so quickly.  I ended up supporting everyone, which basically destroyed me financially.  He just kept taking and taking.  The more he took, the more angry I got.  I kept having sleepless nights and fight filled days and thinking I cannot do this much longer.  He was gradually breaking my spirit and destroying me as a person and I felt it every step of the way.  He pushed me over an ottoman 3 weeks after our second child was born and got on top of me, held me down, got about 3 inches from my face and called me a mother f'ing c***.  He then slapped me hard in the face.  I remember lying there in the fetal postion thinking "Dear God, help me ....."  One night we were arguing and he said "I hate you, my life certainly went downhill when I met you".  I swear to you all that I had one of those moments and thought "YOU hate ME?? That's funny, I have supported you, loved you, adored you, praised you and helped you every single day of my relationship and because you weren't winning the fight you hate me"  I am DONE.  I picked up our 1 year old from the table and when I turned around he slapped me across the face while I was holding him.  I looked at him and knew I could never ever continue with this horrid nightmare.  I made him pack and leave and he has not returned.  We do have small children together and I still get sucked in to the fight and drama.  I still struggle to prove to him how hurtful he as been but I am realizing that is just futile.  Why try to convince and evil person they are evil. They will never believe it or see it because if they actually already knew it or saw it and continued anyway, they would be serial killers! I know in my heart that I will never, ever go back ever.  I couldn't.  He has robbed me of so much and I am working hard to become a new person, a stronger, healthier person.  Obviously I wasn't strong or too healthy to have this person in my life in the first place.  Best wishes to everyone who is healing!!
     

[eyes_up]

 =msn sun=Jac,


Your question here "If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you? Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else?"

When I read, "or did you meet some one else?" the first thing that came to mind is that , No I didn't meet another person BUT I DID MEET MYSELF. I continue to do so.

When I broke up with narcissist I had many realizations before hand BUT at the same time there also was simultaniously another layer breaking away and disolving slowly but surely. So basically it was a layered experience and some times every thing would come together clearly and then the next moment I would run into emotional landscapes that occupied the abusive relationship.

Every time I would hit those places I would be knowing that they were habitual states that I was breaking out of ... emotional habits. I didn't exactly view them as essence and truth no matter how raw the emotions were. I focused on the emotion and not the story line, not the tale or the internal dialog. Then I would deal with the emotion. I would feel it in my body, where I held it.

so it was years of realizations and becoming. Now I am still doing this but it has graduated from the severe and destructive climate of abuse ~ continuing to explore what it is for me to be alive. Just that. Being alive for me once meant abuse but now it no longer does.

I don't focus on any X .... they just represent abuse to me and a time zone when I was challenged to change and grow and live fully; gaining access to my potential.

So what was finally rediscovered is that life is huge. The narcissist was like a narcotic and it was a very small, tight, narrow existence. There is so much to becoming whole and healthy. At some point it actually gets fun and free. Real Love doesn't doesn't have a price tag. It isn't something to seek through another . It is something to be . sounds like a hippie dream and ya know what it is actually much older then that.

I love the dream of your father and the rose. What I see in that is divine wisdom. It was the purest message to heal and grow. We get the information when we are ready. That again comes in layers and phases. It doesn't happen all at once. Well, that is and has been my experience.

(((hugs)))

eyes

[redhairtemper]

"If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you? Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else?"

I think for me it was a gradual process that I was fighting, I wanted so desparately to see a change in him but my head (thankfully) overruled my heart and plodded foward with the divorce. 

I served him with the divorce papers on a Friday.  He was almost giddy about it.  It was disgusting.  I was destroyed because I take marriage very seriously and I never thought I'd ever end up divorced.  On the Monday I was sent on a work 'course' called "First Nations Awareness Training"  it was camp for adults.  We had healing circles and lessons in native history and culture.  We made masks.  It was incredible.  My N made me feel so undesirable and yet I found out that the young, hot police officer from the North was after me even though he had every 'cougar' chasing him. (I did nothing, by the way, I needed to fall in love with me again first). 

The best part of the week was a sweat lodge.  It was incredible.  You are in the dark with a bunch of women, it's soooo hot and steamy.  You sings traditional songs and you ask the grandmothers for guidance.  You each take a turn asking your God or the universe for whatever.  I asked Adonai to take over guiding my ex because I was done that I needed to look after myself now and my children and I had no more energy for him.  I think for me it was more of a revelation that I had never voiced before, that this man needed to exit my life in totality, I set in motion a goal that I needed to achieve.  I guess it was easier to not care about him if I knew someone else was looking after him.  It was still a few months before the full effect took place but I felt free to rebuild me and like me again.

There was one more big lie that he told that finally closed the 'conduit' from him to me for good.  I had found out that he had been cheating on me again after I had given him a second chance.  It shouldn't have mattered but it did.  Shortly after that, my best friend and future husband entered my life.

[Jacintae]

Dear Tango, Kericoba, Eyes and Redhairtemper,

Do you know that to read your posts makes me feel good to my very bones.

Each one of you showed such great courage and healing. You are all awesome women. I thank you for taking the effort to write all this. I feel so very lucky to have found friends like you all.

I can only say thank you and hope that one day I will be able to help others as I have been helped on here.

Love

Jac xx

[ILoveMyHnD]

My counselor has suggested that we will deal with the NC the same way we would deal with someone dying.....starting with GRIEVING. Yeah, she acknowledges that we would be happy if the N fell off the face of the earth, but we still have a LOSS.

[redhairtemper]

My therapist said something similar.  When you consider it, there is a death.  A narcissist's emotional development ceases around the age of 3, that's when the murder occured.  It's just that the corpse continued walking around and we didn't find out about the death until much later, but it still needs to be grieved.

[SusyP14]

Could I ask? If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you? Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else? Or as you move through life are you still aware that the scars of the N will always be with you?

I woke up with a weird feeling about what xn had been doing on the computer the night before.  I looked at the computer history on my laptop and found that he has been emailing other women while he sat next to me.  He had not logged out of a dating website and I could see where he had emailed over 100 different women in a 2 week period.  I was appalled at his audacity and I asked him to leave.  He did, with a half apology:  Yes, that was disrespectful.  I am sorry you are upset, you have every reason to be. And I never spoke to him again.  Not one word, one text, one email or one phone call.  An intense 8 month relationship was over in the blink of an eye.

Seeing lie after lie after to lie to these various strangers was a fascinating, but excruciating exercise.  I NEVER thought that when he walked out the door that those would be the last words spoken between us.  The devalue and discard left me shattered.  I was truly addicted to this man.  I used to lie on my couch and sob like a hungry, neglected infant.  What saved me was my extreme level of stubbornness.  

Although I did not know what I was dealing with as I had never heard the words: NPD, pathology, No Contact.  What I did know was that he deeply betrayed me and that I would NOT contact him first.  

Getting to the other side of the hurt has been practically a full time job.  It took me one complete year of therapy, 12 step meetings (I belong to SANON – partners of sex addicts), a 5 day Sandra Brown intensive, and posting on this board like it was my job, and reading 15 books on Narcissism, Sociopaths and Psychopaths.

The most important part for me, is that I never waivered on No Contact.  I have him blocked from my phone and email so I that I would not be tempted to respond to pleas for pity or talk of soul mate.  And to be honest, he may  have never tried to contact me.  I don’t know and I will never know.

Even after ALL of that I was still having tons of intrusive thoughts, but at the one year mark, they started to fall away.  I write about him when I am on this board, but other then that he is not on my mind.  He does not pop up all the time.  I do not long for him, I do not think about the good times or the good sex.  Sandra Brown taught me this reframing  technique when I was thinking about the good.

Sandra Brown:  What was good about him?  
Me:  He was really cute.  
Sandra Brown:  He was cute, huh?  How was that for you having a cute psychopath for a BF?  How did that work out for you?
ME:  He ripped my heart out of my chest w/o an anthesia.

Sandra Brown:  What else was good?
Me:  He was very passionate and good in bed
Sandra Brown:  Yeah, he probably had a lot of experience having sex with all those girls you found about when he left his email open.  How many did you say? 12 that you know about?  That means there were probably more.  You might want to get your self tested for STDs ASAP.  Now tell me again, how was that sex with an unfaithful psychopath?  

I really do think that I get it now.  It is easy to see why I was conned.  On the outside he was handsome and fit.  He was intelligent, well spoken, well read, and had very good manners, very polite.  He was accomplished and had a prestigious job.  So far, what is not to like?  I just did not know that underneath the surface was a highly poisonous, cold, sadistic viper that is ready to get his fangs in my throat and take me down at any moment.

The illusion for me has been cracked.  Once I really GOT IT.  He was highly covert, so we had no drama and zero fights.  I saw how many times he had gas lighted me, and kept me feel off balance and never secure.  I figured out thru the help of this board, that I was nothing more then object to him.  Once I realized that he was mentally disordered sadist, with no capacity to change, I see him completely differently.  I just feel sorry for his daughter, his exwife and next current and future victims.  They will all see the good, feel really lucky, and then get run over by his ruthlessness and soul killing lack of empathy and kindness.

I have not found anyone yet, nor am I looking.  I have a lot of things in flux right now (I may be going to graduate school in the fall and moving out of State), so I am waiting for things to be in order in my life before I even consider dating.

One of the many things I have learned is that Narcs sniff out vulnerability like a hound dog can smell a rabbit, so it is best to go into any relationship when you are not at your personal best.

[SusyP14]

     .  He pushed me over an ottoman 3 weeks after our second child was born and got on top of me, held me down, got about 3 inches from my face and called me a mother f'ing c***.  He then slapped me hard in the face.  I remember lying there in the fetal postion thinking "Dear God, help me ....."   I am DONE.  I picked up our 1 year old from the table and when I turned around he slapped me across the face while I was holding him.  I looked at him and knew I could never ever continue with this horrid nightmare.       

Kericoba, Were you with Mel Gibson?  I swear that it is true what Sandra Brown states that pathology does not waiver.  It just remains steadfast.  It is NEVER OK to hit another human being, but to do so when they are holding your baby?  It just makes 1,000 worse somehow.  I want to tell you how strong I think you are to tell him to pack up and leave and then remain steadfast in your committment to stay away from him.  He is lethal and cannot be trusted in any way.

[Jacintae]

'I figured out thru the help of this board, that I was nothing more then object to him'. from Susy

I think that this too was a very significant revelation for me. A lot of things fell into place when I realised this. I was an 'object' to him to just use as he would any other useful object. I had heard him use that phrase a lot - 'so and so is very useful to me'. It was a defining moment for me when I realised that he regarded me as the very same thing.

Thank for your great response, Suzy - I found it very helpful especially the dialogue with Sandra Brown.

Love
Jac xx

[Legs]

<<My counselor has suggested that we will deal with the NC the same way we would deal with someone dying.....starting with GRIEVING. Yeah, she acknowledges that we would be happy if the N fell off the face of the earth, but we still have a LOSS.>

yes, and add to that it could also be looked at as a complex grief or as disenfranchised grief..........both not usually realized or acknowledged, compounding the grief process in unusual ways.


Legs

[Jacintae]

yes, and add to that it could also be looked at as a complex grief or as disenfranchised grief..........both not usually realized or acknowledged, compounding the grief process in unusual ways. from Legs.

I think this is so very true. When my Dad died last year, we had a funeral ritual and we were able to say goodbye. Although I missed him such a huge amount - I have very good memories of him and I often call on him (in prayer) to help me when things are bad. Plus my sister misses him a lot too and I can always phone her and speak to her about the grief I have over him and she understands.

But the grief of the N is so very different. I still have some friends in common with the N but I would never, ever mention any of this to them. I would not even tell my sister because she does not really understand. She always thought him 'very damaged'. It is kind of a secret grief that one has to hide and get through. Which is what makes this site so very, very valuable - to find others who really understand has really played a huge part in my getting over it all.

Love
Jac xx

[NewWings4MeNow]

Jacintae,

The marriage started to end for me when, one sunny 2003 afternoon in our hot tub the year after he'd turned 40, XNH told me he was going to a "Having It All" weekend seminar put on by his new "special male friend", the same weekend my father had just arrived from the other coast for a visit.  When I protested, XNH yelled and cursed at me for the first time in our 12.5 years together.  I knew then something was broken.

It continued when:
- I noticed him talking to me like I was his employee
- I'd give him common sense advice and he ignored me completely like I wasn't even in the room
- I noticed XNMIL's phone conversations were full of how wonderful and perfect a man and H he was -- sappy, daily and unbelievable
- I noticed XNH and XNMIL's conversations became gaslighting when they told me I'd/they'd said things that weren't said.

I could see the marriage end when:
- XNH's attitude became so obscenely selfish that I had an epiphany moment one night and told him I had no desire to remain involved with such a ridiculously selfishly-oriented family as his, and never would as my personal style, morals and values were completely different.

Long after separation and D my attachment to him started to end when:
- I saw how grossly his selfishness was expressed in his treatment of, and withholdings from, d
- His endless hundreds of yearly e-mails were filled with insults and escalating threats
- Three years post-D he threated, by phone, to hurt me

I knew in spring 2009 that he'd become a total stranger when:
- He lied to me about agreeing to my move away with d after I'd gotten a job
- Based on his continuing violations of my boundaries I had to tell him and the mediator that I'd prosecute him like a stranger
- D told me months later that I couldn't move away from her as, "Mama, you're my only protection"

I knew in spring 2010 that I had to do all I could to protect d from him when:
- He argued with her and hit her in the head, told her he'd do it again, she ultimately called the police and CPS on him and he refused to apologize to her but justified himself.

All these examples of XNH's true colors, taken together, ultimately blasted to smithereens my long-remembered feelings, memories and value of him.  Through years he'd gone from an XH to a midlife crisis XH to an XNH to somewhere solidly along the N/P spectrum.  I no longer had to vascillate between demonizing him and missing him; I was finally totally done when he started on our d and abuse of The Next Generation escalated.

It ended for me when I came to trust my gut 100% and believed what I was observing and experiencing.

My objective has become that the chain breaks here and now.

NewWings4MeNow

[Crystalstream]

It took five years for me to end it.  The final straw, or the one that convinced me that he does not possess the core substance that I look for in a mate was when we were at the beach.  We had dinner with a nurse that he worked with and had a friendship with.  He tells her that he will call her to let her know when they could get together and "do that thing tomorrow."
I was leaving early in the morning.
Then I become a detective, and I learn the truth about his contact with her.  I dont think he has been sexual with her, but he has been emotional.  He lied and when I gave him proof of it, he still lied.  he refused to be honest about it. The straw that broke it for me is split:  Somewhere between the look on his face when he told me 'it just so happens that she LIVES 20 MINUTES FROM HERE!"  He knew it all along and had contacted her three days before he left to drive down.
And then there was the constant text messaging to God knows who, and the feelings of sadness that I had when I would send him a text and he would not respond to it.
Or the time he did, about the pizza......
I asked him about the texting and he became this nasty, sarcastic, mean ahole.  "I AM TALKING TO MY DAUGHTERS.  DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?"  I felt like I had been slapped.  In a way I had.
And now, I have proposed a settlement with him that I discussed with my lawyer yesterday, and he jumped at the chance to accept it. 
I might not get as much from this as I would if I were willing to drag his butt through the mud, but it will be enough to get what I want and to start my life over.  And my gratitude for not having to live like this anymore is priceless.  I have not had voice contact with him since July 13, and I am so grateful for that.  He wrote to me the other day and said "I read your amazing letter, and I found myself wanting to contradict you and correct you."  Thats why I do not talk to him anymore.  I cant stand the constant "you are wrong."  And for once, I KNOW Im not.

[Litha]

Crystal, I am so happy for you! I know hard this has been for you and you are doing so well.

[jaycee]

jac, I am in the newest stages of ending a twenty four year marriage to an N, I am so scared i will never get over him, that I will be obsess for the rest of my life, and that this sick feeling inside will never wane, yet, I pray everyday and I know intellectually, I cannot be with this man any longer, he lives with his newest w***e, as i dumped his stuff in garbage bags on her doorstep, and yet, I continue to obsess over their relationship and why he stays with her, i imagine they are so happy and he loves her so dearly, when in reality, I know, have proof positive he still has his others, and he continues to call text and come by here on a daily basis telling me how much he loves me, I am trying to do the no contact, but it is difficult because he gets crazy and holds money over my head if I dont give him his way.. he loves himself so much that he texts me pics of himself saying, luv u........etc..........my point is, i am desperate to know when these feeling will end, and if i will ever move on in my heart.........i come to this site hoping to hear the same stories with wonderful endings of how these strong women overcame their love and hurt, It gives me hope that someday soon i will be living a better life, and hopefully will find my true soulmate and have the love and respect i have always deserved........please ask God to answer my prayers, and I as always keep all of you in my prayers as well.  like they say, if youre are this down, the only other way is up, I pray for that day..................hugs, xoxo Jaycee

[SusyP14]

I am so scared i will never get over him, that I will be obsess for the rest of my life, and that this sick feeling inside will never wane,

Jaycee,  I invited you to read this thread from Peartree:

been working lately on not resisting thinking about him or resist trying to figure him out but rather just let it flow through i.e think "yep he just popped up in my head again" rather than "oh god when will i be free of him,~Peartree

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7038.0.html

You have had 20 years of abuse and about 5 minutes of No Contact.  It is going to take a while to recover from this and for the intrusive thoughts to end. I really, really liked Cheri Huber's method which Peartree let us know about.  What you resist persist.  Be gentle with your self and know that the instrusive thoughts are very much the hardest part of recovery from a pathological relationship.  I am sure I have posted this to you before, but just as a reminder:

The main problem women have after leaving pathological men is obtrusive constant thoughts of the relationship and cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.

The main part of these pathological men is that show up as one thing, but they are something entirely different. This is a disorder of social hiding. This is an individual that is PROFOUNDLY disturbed but looks normal. In a normal relationship you don't have 2 different people to deal with. Here you are breaking up with dark side and the charmer.

What you miss is the charmer. What you broke up with is the dark side (and only true side).

Their disorder is this called the mask of sanity for a reason. They appear normal (better then normal - sweet, charming, handsome) but they are something else all together. These men have known they were different since they were children they are experts at hiding their dark side. If they showed you who they were, you would have gone running into the night screaming.

Here are some examples of what happens in these types of relationships:

You receive both:

bonding and abandonment
loving and loathing
child like vulnerability couple with adult mystique
support and sabotage
fun and then rage
the most wonderful soul mate you could have imagined as well as the sickest relationship you could experience all in one package
calculated and impulsive
idolized and devalued
aloof and super connected
kind and sadistic
capable and helpless

We are ping ponging all over the place.

[CZBZ]

"I really did have such an illogical period of 'magical thinking'." ~jacintae

As did I. It took about a year to feel safe in my skin again, knowing what was real and what wasn't. This was my 'year of magical thinking' with a broken heart and MIND that was trying so very hard to make sense of the unbelievable. My family and I frequently laugh about the crazy things I did trying to find the 'boundaries' of my self in a fantasy land or a nightmare (as it would be more accurate to say). I believe this period in my life could have been shortened had I known about pathology. That was the obstacle I could not reason through because I could not see it or name it since my assumptions about life and love and liberty were based on 'normal' human beings. When I have the truth, I can deal with the truth. What I could not do was put all the pieces of the puzzle together because essential components to the big picture were missing. Once those pieces were in my hands, the whole puzzle came together and Magical Thinking disappeared. Another reason why WoN exists because I hope that by offering those missing pieces to other people, they can snap that picture together quickly enough to avoid some of the pain. Not all. We are going to suffer and hurt but maybe we don't have to stay in the nightmare quite as long and suffer irreparable damage ourselves.  

"Could I ask? If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you? Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else? Or as you move through life are you still aware that the scars of the N will always be with you? Maybe it's different for everyone but I just wondered."

I never pretend I am 'over the N' because as soon as I get cocky, i get humbled.   There will be 'emotional moments' for me for the rest of my life considering the length of our relationship and the fact that I have two children. I don't fear those 'emotional moments' anymore because I have learned overtime that they will pass. Acting on those impulses extends the sadness so doing nothing but letting a wave of grief wash over me has been essential to my healing. My fear lessens because I can trust myself to just FEEL and not REACT which means the waves of grieve are allowed to process as they must.

The first time I realized something was seriously 'off' was right before my husband left our home. Up to that point, I knew nothing about pathology or narcissism and followed the advice of Dr. Phil & friends about midlife crises and infidelity as a sign the marriage had become stale and boring (I didn't feel that way, though. But the general opinion is that 'men' feel like that and the wife must accomdate his need for excitement, blah blah blah).

Then I found a chart in his office (yes, I was driven to snoop, argh!). On this chart, he had drawn a center line segmenting two columns. At the top of one column was my name. On the other column was his lover's name. Beneath our names were jotted notations about our qualities and our defects. I stared at this list like a character out ofa  Daphne do Maurier novel. It was emotionally traumatic to see myself stripped of my humanness like choosing between two objects in a department store. Which one would service the purchaser best and it split my brain in two because it was so unfathomable. How could a man live with me for thirty-plus years and even consider comparing me to a four-month paramour?

If that wasn't traumatic enough (because I could have listed twenty more defects than he did), this entry told me he was Not Normal and nothing I could say would change what to me was 'sick'. He entered a line "OW has two great kids, competent and successful" and on my column, he entered the line "CZ has two f-ed up kids'. My hands were trembling, my head was spinning, my heart was shouting "NO!!" and I knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that what I was dealing with was very very different from anything Dr. Phil had ever written about.

It was several months before discovering NPD and theoretical books about human pathology. First, i had to listen to my instincts and write down what my gut was telling me and then DO IT even if i didn't want to. I woke up one morning with a compelling urge to sign up for Into to Keyboarding and Computer Science101 at the local college. Shortly after learning how to use the computer and type, I learned about NPD.

(never had our marriage counselor mentioned pathology to me. Never had my own therapy ten years prior, ever mentioned pathology to me!)

It's still hard for me to understand how narcissists think and why they don't get help. It's still hard for me to understand how our society has missed this integral piece to relational difficulties and created all kinds of rationalizations as to why men (and women) do the things they do. We actually encourage people to be more understanding, more forgiving, more sensitive, more (insert narcissistic supply here), without SEEING the real issue. It's not the partner. It's not the kids. The problem is The Pathology.

I would never have considered myself a co-diabetic had my spouse been diabetic. I would never have considered myself a co-amputee had my spouse lost his legs or an arm. But for some reason, we consider people co-pathologicals and that to me is a morally and ethically irresponsible assumption increasing the pain of those who have already suffered enough.

Hugs,
CZ

[SusyP14]

If that wasn't traumatic enough (because I could have listed twenty more defects than he did), this entry told me he was Not Normal and nothing I could say would change what to me was 'sick'. He entered a line "OW has two great kids, competent and successful" and on my column, he entered the line "CZ has two f-ed up kids'.

This entire story is almost too much to stand.  The inhumanity and the objectification is all horrifying but what stands out the most is saying that YOUR kids are f-ed up.  First of all, I know your kids are not f-ed up.  From what you have written, they both sound remarkable and I know that is because of your son that this site sacred space even exists, but to act as if they are not HIS kids???  I guess that they truly are sperm donors.  Silly me, why would I expect that his objectification would not extend to his children?  
 

It's not the partner. It's not the kids. The problem is The Pathology.

And pathology never changes.

[Jacintae]

Then I found a chart in his office (yes, I was driven to snoop, argh!). On this chart, he had drawn a center line segmenting two columns. At the top of one column was my name. On the other column was his lover's name. Beneath our names were jotted notations about our qualities and our defects. I stared at this list like a character out ofa  Daphne do Maurier novel. It was emotionally traumatic to see myself stripped of my humanness like choosing between two objects in a department store. Which one would service the purchaser best and it split my brain in two because it was so unfathomable. How could a man live with me for thirty-plus years and even consider comparing me to a four-month paramour?
from CZ

I agree with you Susy this post is such a sad and terrible post. CZ - I could not stop crying when I read this. I can just imagine you standing there reading this awful list. After thirty four years of marriage. Words fail me at how you must have suffered. I can see why you would never be able to fully forget this.

Thank you for posting this - it must have been difficult to go back over all of this again. But I hope, CZ, that you can look into the mirror today and see yourself for the most honourable and decent and wonderful woman that you are. You are such a shining star. I am off to Ireland tomorrow for a few days. I feel strong, good and kinda at peace with the world. And this site has been my mainstay. I am travelling hopefully and optimistically. My Mother will not have changed - but I sure have. Thanks to all the effort on here to help people like me. CZ, - well, you're just a Number 1 Lady. 

Love
Jac xx

[Proud2B]

It took me a good long time to come to the realization that 1.  He wasn't coming back, and 2.  I didn't want him back.

When we first got married, I expressed a wish that we reaffirm our vows on our fifth wedding anniversary.  I never brought it up again.  On the eve of our fourth anniversary, I finally admitted to myself that there was no f'ing way I would sign up for another five years of life with him and his children.  Nothing ever got better, unless I made it better.  And the only way I could do that was sucking it up and taking the abuse he and his brood dished out. 

After he had the affair and left, it took me another year and a half before I finally said, "Enough".  Nothing dramatic happened except he broke my heart two more times when he and The Church Secretary broke up temporarily), and he hinted of a possibility that he might be interested in getting back together.  I was all a-quiver with hope, only to be dashed to the ground for the umpteenth time.

One day, he emailed what he thought of me.  In it he described his view of me, and stated that , "I see you as being needy".  That was it for me.  I never looked back.  Through out the whole ordeal I was anything BUT needy.  I was strong, but wounded.  I hung in there.  I took care of business, I took care of myself, I would go home after work and cry myself to sleep, but I persevered.

And all he could say was I was 'needy'????!!!!  I think not.  Just one more example of projection.  He has gone from one woman to the next without ending the previous relationship.  His latest (TCS) is ten years older than him and looks remarkably like his mother.  He is still trying to fix mommy. 

Good luck to her, and good riddance to him.

Proud2B

[honeybearII]

I had to think a while before I wrote on this post, because I am a texbook case of what NOT to do with an N, LOL.  I was married to him for over 30 years, and during that time I just kept losing more and more bits and pieces of myself.  

How did it end?  Well, it started early in the marriage with a lot of suspicions about his "friends" (all women).  He would indulge in what I called his Little Obsessions over the years - a series of women that I now understand were waaaay more than Buddies as he called them.  I had no proof, though, and since he was, to the world, a warm, funny, likeable and hard-working businessman and then a well-respected and nationally known church musician, I just assumed he was who he said he was and that I WAS THE ONE WITH THE PROBLEM.  I felt, over the years, like I had real problems with jealousy, but nothing made any sense to me because the only time I felt like I was going crazy was when he was off on one of these tangents with some woman - mostly younger women who were his children's choir directors in the churches where he served.  

It all blew up in my face in 2003.  I had decided to become computer-savvy so I could keep up with our children who were all either in college then or out working.  I had never had much interest in emailing, but I missed my kids.  One day I sat at the computer (which had always been HIS domain) and decided to play around.  I clicked on "history" and got the shock of my life.  There were dozens and dozens of emails to a woman who had been one of his "buddies" when we lived in a state where we had not lived for over 8 years by then.  They were graphic, and told the whole story.  It was obvious the REAL nature of their relationship and that he had been meeting her for YEARS when he ostensibly was going to see his sick mother in the same state.  I was absolutely and completely devastated.  When he got home he swore to me up and down that they were just "computer fantasies" with her, and I so wanted to believe him.  My mind just couldn't reconcile the public image with what I had now read in private.  We went into marriage counseling and he went religiously with me for over 9 months.  I was also in private counseling (as was he but only sporatically), and was learning a LOT about boundaries and a lot of other things.

That went on from March to December.  Then in Dec. of 2003 I came home early from a luncheon and my college teaching job to find him with another woman in my home.  That is another story in itself, but suffice it to say that God took a 2x4 and hit me upside the head.  Even then it took me until May of 2004 to finally walk out.  It was up and down and around.  More marriage counseling, more him telling me he didn't really know if he wanted a divorce........you all know the drill.  But something inside of me, my intuition, told me that he was STILL leading a secret life.

I finally left, telling him I HAD to get away for a couple of months and get my head on straight.  He was still pulling strings, controlling the situation by isolating me and not wanting me to share what was going on with my kids or any of the people in my church or town.  I moved 300 miles away and in with a dear friend who let me talk it out and cry it out for months.  I got myself back into counseling, and after about 5 months, during which time he NEVER GOT IN HIS CAR TO COME SEE ME even though I went back several times to talk, I finally "got it".  It was OVER.  By then I was hearing rumors about his dating while we supposedly were "working on it".  

But you know what the final ending was?  When I cut all ties?  The woman I had found him with in Dec. 2003 called me.  She had been a dear friend, much younger than my H and me and one of my voice students.  She had broken up with him by then and wanted to talk to me and beg my forgiveness.  She said she would understand if I never wanted to see her again, but she would like to try to make things right.  I told her the only way I would see her is if she answered ALL my questions and we had an honest talk.

I got it, and it was the final closure.  She validated ALL of what I had intuitively known about what was going on in his double life.  I was not crazy or a jealous biptch.  Also, he ended up treating her EXACTLY as he had me.  When she talked about her experience with him, it was like listening to a litany of my life with him, but with her it got so bad that she was cutting herself and going to therapy EVERY DAY for a time.  And do you know why she broke it off?  Because she caught him cheating on HER!  It was the final nail in the coffin and the final thing that finally gave me the intestinal fortitude to email and say to him, "Everything I know, Ann knows.  Everything Ann knows, I know.  Do not ever call me, email me, or hopefully speak to me again.  You are not only a cheater but a liar and a manipulator and I am sorry I ever met you.  It is over, done with, through."

The only thing I have said to him in 6 years is "hello" at my son's wedding and my daughter's graduation.  
Honey