How did it end for you?

[LettingGo]

Could I ask? If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you?
Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else? Or as you move through life are you still aware that the scars of the N will always be with you? Maybe it's different for everyone but I just wondered.

For me it happened very unexpectedly and just recently like last week! I spent a great deal w/anger and grieving a relationship that could never have been because she is a N. Know that everyone travels down the Healing Path at their own pace and in their own way. You can not jump ahead, you must travel through the different stages. I was having a problem making the transition to Acceptance, Forgiveness, and Closure -- until I Redefined It to Find It. As long as we look to the ends Ns for something we need, then we give them the power to keep us stagnate and incomplete.
Here are the two threads:
Acceptance & Forgiveness
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7271.0.html

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7306.0.html

As CZ says, do not put the cart before the horse. Know where you are at in your Journey, just leaving the N, then anger is a good place to be in and learning to disconnect and unlove him and connect w/self are your primary goals. Realizing that there is nothing he has that you want and you could care less how he spends his day.

[NewWings4MeNow]

CZ,

Here you've shared, with the charting, something I've never read before about your experience.  Wow.  And the disassociation of just your kids being f'd up ....  

So years ago, when I first wrote about XNH having dissected the value of our marriage in his "Having It All" workbook, and having rated it a 0 out of 10 the year after he'd reproposed to me, you must have really understood.

BTW, the comparative chart thing was an exercise XNH and I had done together each time he was laid off from his job and we had to assess new job opportunities in yet another new state:  Qualities and attributes viewed side-by-side, to judge, vote on, select or discard.

(never had our marriage counselor mentioned pathology to me.
Never had my own therapy ten years prior, ever mentioned pathology to me!) ~ CZ

Pathology:  The (Not So) Hidden U.S. Epidemic.  It's in our schools, our prisons, our legal, medical and financial systems.  Yet the very people charged with IDing it do not do so because they don't know how to, don't care to, experience no consequences if they don't ... or are paid not to.  Any which way, the percentage of this growing within our population is damaging the very fabric of our nation and its culture, IMO.

Hugs,

NewWings4MeNow

[Proud2B]

Honey,

After all he did, for as long as he did, why did you even bother to say, "hello"?  (Just kidding, but not really).

He should have been groveling at your feet a thousand times over.  "Grrrr......." just doensn't do it justice.

I would prefer to look right through them as if they didn't even exist.

Proud2B
 

[honeybearII]

Proud, the looking through him came after my natural Good Girl Genes took over for a moment, LOL.  Believe me, the "hello" was a natural response to HIS greeting and that was IT.  Besides, it makes me feel righteous!
Honey

[LettingGo]

Honey you did awesome! In a public setting, if the N says hello and you don't respond then he walks away thinking oh see how she is still hooked on me and others believe him, because you were so upset you couldn't even utter a word you would to a complete stranger. It is great that you did not give him that notion or anyone else. During these times is the time for the Wall of Pleasant, a quick, flat, unemotional, echo of hello and walk away to someone more interesting and of importance. Yes, I am the one that says Any Reply is Supply, but to some rules there is the exception and this is it. The message everyone gets especially the N is, I am too happy w/my life to be concerned about yours, you do not matter to me. Well done Honey Well done! You have to know yourself for this to pull it off and make it work. If there is any question on expressing any kind of emotion, then stick w/Any Reply is Supply and don't respond, because N are called Emotional Vamps for a reason, they will feed of just a drop from you especially if they haven't had any for a very long time. Better to not respond, avoid making any kind of eye contact and just walk away.

[Legs]

At least I had the pleasure of knowing pretty much form Day One that Lucifer had no loyalty to ANYONE. Not his ex-wives, not me and not even his alternative supply. He always had at least a pair and a spare. Me being the spare. And usually he'd be juggling three of us (wife, long term-girlfriend, the extra girlfriend and then several "new" ones he was just "feeling out". What a sleeze bag. The end for me was when once again, I found him on an adult dating site after an entire year of lies and more lies and even more lies, and the more he lied, the more I looked and the more I found, the more he lied so the more I looked, etc...

I finally said, "If you cannot or will not or won't be truthful, we can never ever work this out", and he looked at me and said, "But I *do* tell you the truth whenever I can remember OR IF I THINK IT IS RELEVANT".

::::::poof::::::, I was done.


Legs, who fooled around with the avatar thing for an hour and is missing something...I have the code and it is a long thing...I will try copying it here and see what happens, but when I post it on my profile page and click enter or whatever it says at the bottom, the profile page opens back up, and the space when I originally copied the link is blank again except for the http part..


ok, I am going to paste it here and se if you can see it and tell me what's wrong with it.




Legs

[Legs]

Hey!
 My avatar jumped into my email..now why can't I paste that onto my profile page and have it work??

Legs, not a geek

[LettingGo]

Legs I had the same problem and spent at least the same amount of time last night trying to figure it out. It worked and I thought CZ just had Mercy on this poor little frustrated rat. Make sure there is not a double http when you paste the code in, make sure you click on the button, Add my own pick, and double check the size. My avatar most likely will stay for a very long time in fear if I change it I wont be able to upload another. I had to resize the image a couple of times at the photobucket.

[betterdays]

This thread is so very painful to read, and I am sorry that we all have suffered such similar abuse.  The last straw for me was when D became depressed and told me N had told her he hated me, and what an old witch I am.  She told me many more things, and they were unbelievable.

We all age differently, but we all do age.  I am in my early 50's but am taken for about 40.   For at least 5 years, N has called me "The Witch", a name he has used for his mother since right after we were married.  The fact that I know I am not ugly or witchy, and that he tried to bring D into his hate delusions, told me he would turn her against me if he could.  The other things she told me were way, way over the line.

Up till now I have not gone through his office, and hearing CZ's story, the idea is not very appealing.  I know N slept with a neighbor, but can't imagine finding him with someone in my home, as others have. I think the covert nature of N keeps the nitty gritty details out of the house, or at least I hope so.  I quit sleeping with him years ago after a Las Vegas trip with buddies, so I hope I do not have any STD's.  What I worry about is his advice that I should kill myself when I told him we could not live this way.  He told me at other times what he would do if I died.  I never asked, he just spontaneously told me.  I can't wait to be out of here.

[LettingGo]

 

For at least 5 years, N has called me "The Witch", a name he has used for his mother since right after we were married.

Betterdays, so the for the STBXN the N stands for Norman as in Bates!

If that intuition ever start rapidly going off you take D and run. And do not tell him about your Freedom Day or even hint around at it. It fact just say things like, we need to stay together for our D's sake (say this when D is not around, at school or out of the house). Let him think you like co-parenting, then when you are ready to escape do it when he is at work or away on a business trip to Vegas.

[betterdays]

You got it, LettingGo,  he has been trying to hack into my computer every time I leave the room, but his doesn't know it has a dimmer button, so he can't even get the screen to light up!  About two weeks ago I left a printout on my bed with rescue dogs' locations (expensive purebreds, his preferred breed), and breeder sites.  I figured he would assume I was getting him one, and he did.  For two weeks he has only criticized me, no threats or slamming things. I told him we needed to let things simmer down and just go on autopilot. I told him by next June we should be able to go on a vacation.  D and I have planned one, so it was not even a lie. He quit fooling with my computer and did the dishes last night.   N is doing  strange, contradictory things, but no threats for now. He  is also gaslighting like a propane man, so if I even detect a change in language or schedule, I will be gone.  Then I can post about the very last thing he did in my presence, because I will never be around him without a lawyer after that.

[Crystalstream]

Another straw was when I broke into his email account.  I found my letters in his trash bin.

[CZBZ]

That says it all, doesn't it, Crystalstream? They are trashing our letters and telling us at the same time, that they love us.


Hugs,
CZ

[LettingGo]

Betterdays you are definitely earning your PhD is Nism and I think you will ready for an early graduation. Keep him thinking you are making vacation plans that happen past your grad. day. I don't know how you Ladies have so much strength to live w/a N once the N-chantment is over. It is nothing less than amazing. Praise his little achievements like doing the dishes, so he feels so very appreciated and instead of the pet thing, maybe ever so often when he has been on his best behavior (classical conditioning & intermittent reinforcement) surprise him w/his favorite dessert, or meal, or beverage (only one special treat @ a time) because you appreciate how well you are getting along together. Don't say anything specific, lack threats, lack of slamming things, just let him think about it. Ns are addicted to praise, but do not do it every time, make it random. Try to do the praising stuff when your D is not at home, so she does not get any mixed messages from you. Conditioning a N will not turn him into Prince Charming, but it can decrease his idea of seeing you as a threat.

[BlueSky]

There were milestones along the way.  First, it was discovering he was a porn addict.  Then it was acknowledging he was abusive (this was post-divorce).  Much later on, it was discovering he was likely NPD.  Until I found out more about NPD, I had held out hope that he wasn't an evil person and that if I could figure out the right way to deal with him, things would get better.

I am not sure that I am completely over him.  But I did know once I found the evidence of a serious porn habit, that I didn't want him in my life anymore.  But that was more my gut saying that - it took a long time to really know it in my head and heart.

[RB22]

Could I ask? If you are now completely over the N - how did that realisation come to you?
Did one thing happen when you suddenly said 'Right, that's me finished completely with this whole thing?'. Or one day did you just realise that you had not even thought about the N for ages? Or did you meet someone else? Or as you move through life are you still aware that the scars of the N will always be with you? Maybe it's different for everyone but I just wondered.

I think the longer you are entwined with the N, the longer (sometimes more painful) it takes to remove the hooks.

The realization hit me fall of 2002.... he wasn't invested in our family anymore.  Nothing with the kids, nothing with me, nothing with his family, my family... he found other places to be when a family function/event/even birthday dinners were happening.  I knew it was strange..... I tried to make excuses for it to myself and to the kids, family, friends... etc.  According to a friend... I wasn't very convincing.

In January 2003, he went to conference.... even when I was looking at going for a biopsy for breast cancer....He never even gave me a hug.

In February 2003... he scheduled a business trip on youngest D's birthday....and never called her to wish her happy birthday.

He also scheduled to be away for HIS birthday... the kids and I were planning a surprise party for him.... with me making his favorite dish... my homemade lasagna.  Party got cancelled and kids and I ate the lasagna.... there was none left for him.

Was gone the next kids birthday.   I told him to leave the night before the skate rink party was to be held. 

We went on a family ski vacation in vermont..... he spent the first morning... trying to get signal on his cell phone... by standing on the toilet, hanging outside the window... to get signal on his work cell.  It was Saturday morning.... no one was in the office.  the kids were laughing at him, they were enjoying the new snow that had arrived AFTER we did.  He spent most of that week on the mountain top talking on his cell.

I checked his pockets after that... and discovered several HUGE lies.....

My intuition has told me for a long long time... that he was not trustworthy.  I stopped giving him pieces of my dreams (for myself) a long time before this. 

I don't think I will ever completely be over him.....but I do know that when he tries to push my buttons  they don't always work, anymore.  My BF calls them idiot buttons..(yanno the buttons on a car that are make believe, they do nothing)  cause (every so often) when he pushes on them and I don't react (in a way he wants or my usualy fashion)  he looks like an idiot.

since my divorce, my X has become the posterchild for the divorce from HELL that they tell you about in the 'Divorcing With Kids Class' you take to get your divorce. 

And I can almost think like him..... which is REALLY SCARY some days..(cause I wonder if I am a Narc)...

The way he treats our children, has turned me off even thinking of him as a human being..... he isn't.

Hugs,

RB

[RB22]

as far as a new relationship.... the scars are there... they will continue to be there until ... someone applies a cream to them.  Either you or the new relationship.... either way the triggers from the N will have to be exorcised from YOU.  For me it took learning to trust the new relationship a step at a time... and when the triggers were pushed... having the courage to sit down and talk to the new guy.  And have the courage to sit down and talk to myself.... about myself.  and with each talk, came love, understanding, deeper truth, and more intimacy than I have ever felt with N.  It also took me being vulnerable for my trust to move higher.   Thankfully BF's commitment level to our relationship matches my own.

Hope this helps.... the triggers will be there... recognizing them is key,  discussing them takes the heat off them, and sometimes makes them go away altogether.