6 Stages

[skater]

I just read this over at http://laurakamienski.blogspot.com and thought you might all be interested to read it too:

Stages of recovery for victims of NPD:
The following is a non-scientific observation with absolutely NO empirical data to back it up. Just some personal observations.

1. Realization: In the beginning, it was a dream come true. The most intoxicating earth-shattering love imaginable. Then came the 1st crack in perfection. An inexplicable rage in your partner that seemed way out of line with the circumstance.

Then, maybe you remember that moment when it finally dawned on you that "something" was not right. At first, you thought you were dealing with a person who had 2 sides to him: A good side and a bad (conflicted) side. You figured others (the ones who warned you or sensed something "not right") didn't understand the underlying good person. You thought you could be the person who made that person whole: At least that's what he told you.

In a short period of time, you went from being perfection in his eyes, to a person who could do nothing right. You walked on eggshells avoiding anything that might set him off. You lived for the moment that things would go back to the way they were.

The fights were confusing. Sometimes you didn't even know what you'd done to anger him. The rages became more frequent and began to resemble abuse (verbal or physical). The lies were the most confusing because sometimes they were about things so insignificant, there was no point to the lie. He made you think that YOU were the one with "memory problems" and at one point, you actually thought it might be true that you were losing it. (You were a victim of gas-lighting).

The more dominant he became, the more submissive you became...losing yourself in the process.

Then one day, perhaps via the Internet or a magazine article, or TV special....you became aware of NPD and suddenly you realized you weren't alone and there was an actual disorder associated with the person you thought you knew.

2. Denial: You researched NPD and because the prognosis for it is so bleak, you continually searched for a different (more treatable) disorder.

You left him, then fell victim again, and "danced the dance" over and over again until your emotions were so sapped that you were at the point of breakdown yourself.

You drove your family, friends, and yourself crazy talking about it constantly. This also served to make you look like a complete idiot every time you once again fell for his manipulative declarations of love and change.

Eventually you realized that your partner was a Narcissist and you were terrified.

3. Anger at the N: You began to uncover all the lies and deceptions. The anger was overwhelming. How could he act that way to someone who had given so much of themselves? You were so angry that you had constant thoughts and even nightmares about him. You watched as he continued his routine of exploitation with others and even thought of "outing" this master of deception to the rest of the world.

4. Anger at yourself: (The most difficult stage of all.) You began to feel like an idiot for having let yourself be so obviously deceived. You realized you were going to have to eat mud, because many of your friends warned you that he was not what he seemed. You became deeply depressed and had a long road ahead recuperating the part of yourself that you sacrificed to an illusion. The fact that you finally realized he and your relationship was only an illusion, only served to depress you more deeply.

5. Coming to terms: You made a complete emotional (and hopefully physical) break from him. At this point he didn't even like you anymore as you weren't supplying NS, anyway. You started to pick up the pieces and regain the inner strength you previously had. You networked and your friends began to enjoy the fact that you had something to talk about that didn't involve your "N." You started to laugh again and enjoy the things you'd unconsciously given up. You began to feel like a valuable person again.

Oddly enough, this for many, was a dangerous moment because with your new strength, you became once again "attractive/valued" to your "N." But this time you knew enough to know that he was a "Soul Without Footprints" and the person you thought existed was a figment of his own imagination mixed in with a little wishful thinking on your part.

So you walked away, half-healed, but still slightly marred by self-doubt. Perhaps you began to see NPD EVERYWHERE...even when it wasn't merited.

But most important, you came to know you were involved with a person with an illness of the emotions that can rarely be treated....and it wasn't your fault.

*Note: And although the disorder is not his fault and empathy can not be surgically transplanted, he is well aware of the harm and hurt he causes. He just honestly doesn't care because he does not have the capacity to actually feel what others feel...only what he himself feels. N's are emotional predators. They will steal your heart to acquire your happiness, money, prestige....or whatever it is that feeds their NS needs.

6. True Recovery: One day you wake up and find that you honestly don't care anymore. It is the most liberating feeling imaginable. You realize that normal people are everywhere and your brush with this previously unimaginable individual or anyone else like him, is not likely to ever happen again.

You are now ready to resume life. Make lemonade from the lemons in your life. Use the information you unwillingly acquired, as a life lesson. Use it to realize that you are one of the luckiest people in the world because YOU have the ability to laugh and enjoy life. YOU have a chance at happiness. The "N" never does and never will. If perchance you have a need for revenge...that in itself should suffice.


~~~
Personally, I am happy to see myself firmly in stage 6 FINALLY! It has been just over a year but I definitely feel free.

[Legs]

That's a great little blog, Skater and that list is really spot-on. I already forwarded that link to several people....amazing how much info is out there. I wonder if my reactions and reposes would have been difference if I had known what I was dealing with.

Probably so............


Thanks!
Legs

[Litha]

wow, I think CZBZ might have to glue that one up at the top where every newbie can read it. I'm somewhere between 5 and 6 right now. So glad to be past the boiling anger stage, that was just overwhelming.

[Serendipity]

WOW.  I just joined the board recently and almost fainted when I saw The 6 Stages of Recovery on here.  I wrote that piece several years ago and forwarded it to Laura when she recently reached stage 6.  It was an amazing sensation to see it posted here.

I think NPD leaves a lasting impression (scar) because although I have long since moved on...I'm still totally fascinated with the topic. 

[Legs]

WOW.  I just joined the board recently and almost fainted when I saw The 6 Stages of Recovery on here.  I wrote that piece several years ago and forwarded it to Laura when she recently reached stage 6.  It was an amazing sensation to see it posted here.
I think NPD leaves a lasting impression (scar) because although I have long since moved on...I'm still totally fascinated with the topic. 

Wow right back! I loved that so much I already sent the URL to a whole bunch of people because it was just sooooooooo perfect! And how very nice to actually know someone who has "long since moved on". I am thinking that part will probably never completely happen for me because I am older than dirt and spent over 30 years with him.

Ok, and this is none of my biz, but that total fascination that you still have with NPD..is it a clinical fascination or are you just reminding yourself that the nastier it is, the more sh*t sticks?


Legs, who thanks you for writing that originally and Skater for posting it

[LettingGo]

Thank you Skater for posting and Seredipity for writing it. Although the N in my life was not a spouse, but a parent, who is referred to as the Momster, a term I picked up from CZ who got it from Nicki, the feelings are the same. I have just recently entered into Stage Six I believe, I wrote about it in Acceptance & Forgiveness thread,
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7271.0.html

I would like to know your take on Acceptance, Forgiveness and Closure that thread is here,
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7306.0.html

It is very interesting that you have identified 6 stages, as I have learned about the N-chantment and the need to escape the KoN I have recently been looking back and realizing dealing with the N-counter is a 6 Stage Experience of Deception, Devalue, Discard, Devastation, Disgust, and finally Disconnect. -- and now I thought of a new one Discover! I had to disconnect w/the Ns in my life in order to really start connecting w/Self. And I have Discovered that like the new me that I am free from the KoN.

[skater]

That's so crazy Serendipity! I would have credited you but Laura didn't post any information about you on her blog. Thank you sooooo much for writing it. Well done!

[honeybearII]

While I truly believe there are certain stages we have to go through in recovery, I would caution each person here that it is NOT LINEAR.  In otherwords, you don't go from stage 1 to stage 3 to stage 4, etc.  It is more like a Stage 1, then to Stage 2 and then BACK to Stage 1 and maybe skip 2 and on to 3 by that time.  I wanted to have it all over in my head, and learned very early about the stages, but it was NOT as easy as moving from 1 to 2 to 3, etc.

Getting to the final stage comes when it comes.  Each person is individual in how that looks and how that is achieved.
Honey

[eyes_up]

I am in agreement with Honey on the fact that there is no set linear system for all.

The above does not tell about my experience although there is always the discovery that the person is not just a little bit off but in fact pathological.

I know for sure that once I read NPD definition I did not have an ounce of denial in my guts but logic told me I could not be entirely sure, which I still say is true.

It didn't matter any way, what ever it is or is not called. The abuse was obvious after I read about covert abuse. That is what really gave me information. that is what I stepped off of to make a decision.

My first stage was where I was at emotionally before I met the narcissist. That is where it all began for me.

With in 1.5 years of seeing the narcissist I knew something was terribly wrong. I checked into therapy to figure out if I was the one who was losing mind. Well, I was but it wasn't because I was pathological.

My reaction to the narc was so intense I knew I needed help. My response was to get help. Help was about more than just the narcissist. His trip was rather simple once the equation was spelled out. It was my equation that needed help.

eyes

[LettingGo]

I agree Honey & Eyes, that these difference stages are fluid, we spiral and swirl through them until we Disconnect from the N, connect w/Self heal and Discover Peace -- at least that is how it happened for me.

[SusyP14]

Great post. 

[Serendipity]

Ok, and this is none of my biz, but that total fascination that you still have with NPD..is it a clinical fascination or are you just reminding yourself that the nastier it is, the more sh*t sticks?

That's a GREAT question Legs.  In the beginning, I was morbidly obsessed.  Probably mostly from wounded pride, as I am a Psychiatric RN at an Inpatient Mental Health Unit (and I also have a BA in Psychology).  I should have know better, right?  I should have seen the red flags. 

Now, I mostly read the forums in the hope that I can learn things to help others: Both N's and VoN's. 

While I truly believe there are certain stages we have to go through in recovery, I would caution each person here that it is NOT LINEAR.  In otherwords, you don't go from stage 1 to stage 3 to stage 4, etc.  It is more like a Stage 1, then to Stage 2 and then BACK to Stage 1 and maybe skip 2 and on to 3 by that time.  I wanted to have it all over in my head, and learned very early about the stages, but it was NOT as easy as moving from 1 to 2 to 3, etc.

Getting to the final stage comes when it comes.  Each person is individual in how that looks and how that is achieved.
Honey

Very true.  I know I would arrive at what I thought was stage 5, only to backslide after falling victim to "that spell he cast over me." Very frustrating. Somewhere I have another piece about the backslides which I refer to as The Dance. It seems like you're compelled to keep dancing until you finally wake up and turn off the music!

So of course, the stages aren't linear while you're living them.  They kind of seem that way when you're looking back on the whole experience, though.

[LettingGo]

I like seeing the different stages people experience, especially the vets, as I travel down this healing path it is nice to know what I am experiencing others have felt the same way, and they can warn me what may be coming down the road, how they experienced it and how they got through it, what resources did they utilize, etc. We are walking the same path to healing. This is a hard road to travel as each new truth unravels, but thank God we don't have to travel alone.  

[NewWings4MeNow]

Hi.

I'm living proof that going through the stages is not linear, as I've had to parallel parent with XNH since 2004.  I've had good seasons, great months, and discovered that XNH's pattern of aggressions has been quarterly or semi-annual so I can now read the signs of when he's escalating issues, gearing up to blow and reinserting himself into my path ....

Like others here, my discoveries about midlife crisis, then PDs, then my own FOO and XNH's FOO issues, was the start of my journey of learning about all aspects of human behavior in general and I've taken important maturing steps at midlife.  Eventually what I learned about XNH changed the way I process all interactions with people, and I wouldn't say the fog was lifted so much as I grew/adopted the "sifter"/mantle I've needed to see past superficials (the mask) to people's motivations (the internals).

So a whole new world has opened up for me and yet, until this past year, I still backslid to the earlier stages of healing.

Wouldn't have missed it for anything.

NewWings4MeNow

[Clare]

I am new to all this and guess still somewhat in the 1st stage or no stage.  After reading the symptoms I have no doubt that my mother is NP.  I dates someone after my divorce many years ago and I have no doubt that he was NP as well.  However, I am really not sure about my ex husband.  Maybe he is trickier or more subtle than my mom?  Looking back when I was married to him I always believed he was smarter than me and did everything better than me.  I don't remember him specifically saying that though.  My family adored him.  I thought I was the problem.  During and after our divorce he did specifically say that I'm not smart and continues to insinuate that.  I don't know that he believes he's smarter than other people?  Don't know that he has fantasy type thoughts?  I never thought of him as a liar or manipulator in the past.....but do see that now.   My mom definantly lives in a fantasy world and acts like she's Queen Elizabeth and I'm Cinderella or something.

I feel like I have to accept that he's the problem and not me before I can fully get through stage 1.  I know I'm not crazy but don't know if he is either.   I want the turmoil to end and the hurt and self doubt to end.  Yet, at the same time I do feel fear of loosing my mom.  I also fear my kids loosing their dad.   I know my mom is no good to me or my kids.  She's mean and evil much of the time, but she's still my mom.  This is hard for me.

[LettingGo]

I know my mom is no good to me or my kids.  She's mean and evil much of the time, but she's still my mom.  This is hard for me.~Clare

I know how you feel, the Cognitive Dissonance you experience. In regards to your Mom, do you love who she actually is or do you love the illusion, the idea of who she should be, the role of Mother instead of the actual Mother? There are some great posts on Nparents, Here is one of them:
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7118.0.html

[Clare]

I read that link and it described my mother perfectly.  No one ever believed me as a child.  Everyone would say how lucky I was and what a great mom I had etc.  When she'd make dinner she'd only give me a tiny amount and give my brother a normal amount of food.  She always said things and did things to insinuate I was fat, but never said it.  I always thought I was fat.  I look back at pictures and I was never fat.
After I developed in puberty she'd tell me that my boobs were too big and that I should have a breast reduction.  I was only 16 y/o.  She'd call me a slut and a horror if I had a boyfriend.  If I stood up to her she'd cry and sometimes she would take a shot and insulin and tell me she was going to go kill herself and then lock herself in the bathroom or her room and make me think she was killing herself.  I'd get help because I was scared and then I'd be in trouble.  I had to clean the kitchen until she could see herself in the appliances like it was a mirror.  While I cleaned she'd lock herself in the bathroom for the night and we'd never see her. We only had one bathroom and she'd never open the door for us.  I'd have to outside or something. It was so humiliating. She'd buy me ugly dorky clothes.  A friend gave me a cute stylish skirt once.  I loved it so much and wanted to wear it all the time and she threw it in the trash and told me it was the stupidest looking thing she'd ever seen.

She told family that I was a difficult child. She'd kick me out and tell everyone I ran away. She even called me in as a run away once after she kicked me out.

My stepdad would beat me with a wooden paddle and my mom would sit there and watch with a smirk on her face.   I never showed pain because I didn't want to give her the satisfaction. That caused him to beat me more.

I was in labor with my first child and she was bored at the hospital so she went home.  My oldest daughter was born not breathing and significant blood loss...had to have 2 blood transfusions.  She took her time coming back to the hospital and stayed for a few minutes and left again.

I could go on and on.  I didn't mean to take away from this thread of the stages.  I just can't believe how much that blog sounds like my mom.  I thought I was crazy as no one ever believed me.  She now tells family what horrible mom I am and my kids would be better off with their dad. Then the next day she might talk about what a jerk he is etc.

[NewWings4MeNow]

Hi Clare,

It can be very frightening and defeating to discover that we're living surrounded by toxic people.  

Part of the healing journey is having the strength to take a hard look back at one's own life, independent of an N mate, and see where/how our Family Of Origin (FOO) and how we were treated impacted the choices we've made through time.  It can hurt like a kick to the gut to come to realizations, and getting through this part can take quite a while (months/years) if we feel we were damaged by those closest to us who were supposed to love us.  

This is the stage where taking an actual inventory of who we have been through time, solely and independently ourselves, is really important:  How we thought and felt we were at the time, how we got along with friends and our communities -- the positives that we felt about ourselves ... just as we might have been bombarded by others' negatives.  Actually think it out, write it out, look at it, put it on the wall, keep adding to it.  

This is the stage where we have to take charge of removing toxic influences from our own lives and our heads, where we learn about appropriate healthy boundaries between ourselves and ALL other people on the planet, including parents, siblings, family.  It's the moment where we develop the courage to say, "You're hurting me, I don't deserve to be hurt this way and this relationship the way it is isn't good for me."  It's where we look at each relationship on balance and decide if there's a lot more positive there or a lot more negative.

When many discover about Nism, disorders in general, the spectrum of human behavior, it's quite a natural reaction and part of the healing to go back and apply it to all our relationships.  Many on WoN have written about relationships they've had to fundamentally change or end completely in addition to one with a current/former mate; I'm one of those people.  

Coming to these realizations is scary.  It may feel like one is at a do-or-die precipice.  It may feel like a one-way trip, since many of us are new at the boundaries thing because perhaps we didn't know about them, didn't know we had a right to them or were told we weren't allowed to have any.  

But we find that, in many cases, it's not so do-or-die.  When we start to push back on those who have violated us or wounded us, we're actually showing backbone.  Separateness.  Individuality.  That we're grown-ups.  Those who only want power and control in their dealings with us may back away for good.  Those who have actually valued their relationships with us, or have invested with us for many years, may back away for a time, reassess, then re-approach us dealing with us differently.  A lot of the time we find that people aren't gone for good.  It's WE who have changed/are changing.  It's WE who are (finally) developing a "Don't f*ck with me" attitude of sorts that the rest of the planet may have been born with or taught younger than we were.  

The important thing is to give ourselves permission to make this change, to be willing to take the risk, to be willing to invest in ourselves and the health and safety of the rest of our lives (which depend on it).  Those around us have given it to themselves ....

Example:

As a girl I had a close, sisterly relationship with an adopted girl cousin who lived two hours away and whom I saw constantly throughout the years.  By high school she'd gotten in with a different crowd and wasn't a student.  I went off to a sub-Ivy League school and she dropped out.  Our lives diverged.  I maintained a great relationship with her parents, who understood me better than my own, and she got ANGRY.  VERY ANGRY.  When I was 30 and visiting her, she virtually attacked me in a movie theatre near her home for having spent the movie on the phone outside with my then-fiance (XNH, as it turns out) since we were having problems.  Security even showed up.  I wasn't used to this as I lived very differently in my town.  I shocked myself by telling her to f off, language that I never used.  It took years thereafter, and a lot of family pounding on ME to be the bigger person, to come to some kind of workable communication.  Just three years ago I drove eight hours to visit her and her family in another state, living a different lifestyle, and I wasn't in her home more than five minutes before she started in on me again while she was driving.  I got out of her car, walked in the dark back to their home, told her H she was planning to D him, got in my car and drove home.  Talked with her brother, my close friend and lifetime advisor, and told him his sister was a b*tch and that I was finished with her for good.  Told him I knew the family made me the bad guy for cutting off from her but that I was done with that game too -- sick of being the whipping boy for everybody when I hadn't done anything wrong.  Now, three years later, that male cousin has had grotesque N-like encounters with his sister, he told me I was absolutely right about her, that he owed me an apology for not having recognized it himself.  Now, three years later, I have wonderful conversations with my aunt and uncle and they know completely why I don't speak with their d any more.  This has been a long process, but I've come through and don't regret any decisions.  This year female cousin e-mailed asking me to join her "friends" list on Facebook.  Typical.  I didn't reply.

Clare, going through this takes a resetting of our brains, our values, our understanding of survival and understanding of what constitutes appropriate personal protection.  It takes shifting focus of permission from others to focus of permission on ourselves.  Testing the waters to see what works.  Applying carefully, sometimes piecemeal, what we learn.  Being kind to ourselves when we make mistakes.  

When there's a behavioral system long entrenched within a family, that operates like a merry-go-round, and the first person says, "Stop, I'm getting off," they become the "different" one, the one who won't play along.  Initially, they become The Problem, possibly very unpopular and suddenly the target for family members to exert more power and control to force them back into the fold and to step back in line.  The key at this moment is to stand one's ground and let them know, "This is the way it is" without withdrawing one's position.  This is the moment when new boundaries are established, when negotiation and detente may play a role.  

This is the moment when you exert your own individual power position.  
This is the moment when everything changes.  For you, for the better.
The day you're ready for this, you'll know and will take the leap with confidence and without looking back.
No one but you can know when/if that day will come.

Until then, keep coming here, read/learn as much as you can, think and feel it through.  

And remember that you, Clare, are a Person of Value in This World.  If to no one else but you.  
And for the health and safety and peace of your life to come, that will have to be enough:  That you become Clare's fortress, sword and shield.

Toxic people can kill a mind, body and soul.  Establishing boundaries is a necessary and healthy survival skill.

Bon courage,

NewWings4MeNow

[LettingGo]

Wings what an awesome post! As I read I kept saying yes, that's it, yup, yes that's true, and that and so on. You describe everything perfectly. Accepting & applying the truth that your Parent actually enjoys causing you pain is very hard to do, but is necessary for you and your children.

Toxic people can kill a mind, body and soul.  Establishing boundaries is a necessary and healthy survival skill.~Wings

Establishing boundaries is for us not Ns, because Ns will NEVER respect boundaries and enjoy blasting right through them. Ns are a demon child in a human body. They enjoy breaking boundaries, then manipulate others to join forces w/them to pressure you to not to follow through on the consequence NC. When you are the first to leave the KON you are the Proverbial  and since Misery loves company the enablers will give you the biggest guilt trip in order to prevent you from leaving. Once you leave the N must find another target to attack and once the D&D happens to that person amazing clarity comes and they are no longer N-chanted and everything you warned them about the N now makes sense because they were attacked. Here is a post you might be interested in,
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/04/great-counterfeits-in-land-of.html

Even when I accepted the fact that the Momster was/is a toxic person I had tremendous guilt about going NC. Since this thread is about Stages and Processes that we go through here is what helped me realize that there is no guilt in Letting Go of a toxic person,
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/04/great-counterfeits-in-land-of.html

[Clare]

Wings that merry go round example describes it very well.
I believe my grandfather was also an N.  My grandmother finally left him.  He'd promise his kids he'd pick them up and take them fishing or to the movie or whatever and he'd never show up.

My grandfather's brother is a self made multi-millionaire.  My grandfather never paid child support to my grandmother.  He would get money from his brother and say it's for child support.  My grandfather's family thought he paid for his kids and thought my grandmother was the "bad mom" and "greedy" etc.

After my husband left and I lived on nothing for many years...my grandfather asked for money from his brother and said it was for my college and to help me.  I never saw the money.  My grandfather's brother bought him a beautiful house and beautiful furnishings etc.  My grandfather died about 5 years ago.  It was learned that he took several loans out on the house to support his gambling.  That house was the only thing he left for his kids and by the time the loans were paid there wasn't much left to divide.

My uncle...my mom's brother is the same as my grandfather.  His wife is the same too.  He would send me his daughters clothes for my kids to wear for awhile.  I was so thankful as buying clothes was difficult on my budget.  I'd call to thank him and he was usually at work. I told his wife how thankful I was and how much the girls love the clothes etc. My uncles wife didn't pass that on to him.  My uncle then got mad and said that he was not sending anymore clothes because I didn't send him thank you notes.  I told him that I called to thank him and I am very appreciative of the clothes.  He didn't believe me and I never got clothes from him again.  In fact I haven't heard from him again. 
He treated my grandmother this way too and his sisters.  No one has heard from him in many years now. 

My mom is the same as you know.  However, my mom comes across as so charismatic and kind etc.  My grandmother is fooled by my mom time after time.  She lives in another state as us.  Whenever I cut my mom out of my life my grandmother gets upset with me.  I would feel like if I cut my mom out of my life I'd loose my other family that was very important to me.
I will talk to my grandma and explain what is going on and she says "oh I don't blame you".  Then my mom gets a hold of her and my mom is very convincing so my grandma then believes her and thinks I just treat my mom terribly.

My aunt doesn't buy my mom's crap ever.  My aunt can't stand her.  My grandmother gets upset with her too when she's been manipulated by my mom.

My mom went to catholic schools.  My grandmother told me that the principle of my mom's high school who was a nun told her that my mom is the only professional liar that she has ever met.  My grandmother said she didn't believe the nun because my mom was such a sweet girl.  Everyone sees my mom for who she is except for my grandmother.