Narcissistic Men typically Direct their Rage at Straight Women (article)

[CZBZ]

From Yahoo News:

Narcissistic Men Typically Direct Their Rage at Straight Women

By Jenifer Goodwin

HealthDay Reporter – Fri Aug 6, 7:08 pm ET

FRIDAY, Aug. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Ever met a guy who talks only about himself, thinks he's superior to everyone and who tends to view women as little more than playthings?

That man may very well have narcissistic personality disorder, a condition marked by an inflated sense of self-importance and a profound lack of empathy for others.

And new research suggests the anger, hostility and short fuse that accompany a man's narcissism tend to be directed toward straight women.

"Heterosexual, narcissistic men become enraged at people who deny them gratification, whether it's social status, having a trophy partner or sexual gratification," said lead study author Scott Keiller, a clinical psychologist and assistant professor of psychology at Kent State University Tuscarawas in Ohio.

"The group that could gratify heterosexual men the most is heterosexual women," Keiller said. "To the extent narcissistic men would get resistance, that would make them enraged."
For the study, published online July 23 in the journal Sex Roles, Keiller and his colleagues gave 104 male undergraduates questionnaires designed to measure narcissism. Questions included: "I love to be the center of attention" or "It embarrasses me when I am the center of attention." The former is associated with narcissism, the latter with modesty and humility.

They were also asked about their attitudes toward gay men, lesbians, straight women and other straight men, including how much they ascribed to traditional -- some would say sexist -- male and female stereotypes.

None of the men questioned had diagnosable narcissistic personality disorder, said Keiller. (The disorder is diagnosed when one meets five symptoms on a list that includes grandiosity, a strong sense of entitlement, and an overwhelming need for admiration, according to the American Psychiatric Association.) But narcissism is a continuum, and plenty of the young men had a pronounced tendency toward those traits, he said.

Men who scored the highest on the narcissism test were more likely to view women as conniving gold diggers, as teases who tempt men with sex and don't deliver, or as seductresses with plans to trick men and "get them under their thumb," Keiller said.

"Narcissistic men hold overtly hostile, adversarial ideas about women," Keiller said.

While narcissistic men also showed rancor toward gay men, their hostility toward them was no worse than that of other straight men.

About the only group that escaped narcissistic men's anger were lesbians, possibly because straight men tend to eroticize them, Keiller said.

Jean Twenge, a professor of psychology at San Diego State University and author of "The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement," said the study fits with other research on narcissists.

"Narcissists don't have a problem with everyone, or with people that are different. They have a problem with people who may reject them," Twenge said. "They have a problem with heterosexual women, because those are the people who might see through them, reject them and not give them the attention and adulation they feel they deserve."

The findings suggest they view their relationships with women as patriarchal rather than egalitarian, the authors said.

Men tend to have more narcissistic traits than women, possibly because girls, more than boys, are taught to be nurturing, selfless and to put others first, according to background information in the article. Likewise, men are more frequently diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder than women.

Research suggests narcissistic men are also more likely to commit domestic violence because of their egocentrism and lack of empathy, although many men who commit violence are not narcissists, Keiller said.

Over time, narcissistic men do tend to get their comeuppance. Eventually, their anger and aggression turns off loved ones and employers, experts say.

"They can be charming, self-promoting and even in the face of evidence they are not great, they still think they're great," Twenge said. "But as they age, they are also more likely to fail at school, work and relationships. It's tough to be a middle-aged narcissist."

Just ask actor Mel Gibson, who's made headlines recently with aggressive verbal outbursts directed at women. According to Keiller, it's impossible to know if he's a narcissist without a full exam, but his sexist comments toward a female police officer and his latest reported tirades toward ex-partner Oksana Grigorieva would seem to indicate he fits the bill.

[NewWings4MeNow]

I saw this when it was posted.

"Narcissistic men hold overtly hostile, adversarial ideas about women," Keiller said.

"Narcissists don't have a problem with everyone, or with people that are different. They have a problem with people who may reject them," Twenge said. "They have a problem with heterosexual women, because those are the people who might see through them, reject them and not give them the attention and adulation they feel they deserve."

"The findings suggest they view their relationships with women as patriarchal rather than egalitarian," the authors said.

ADVERSARIAL is a centrally key descriptor for me.  This is XNH's entire FOO system (what I've previously called "militant").

These comments reflect exactly what L. Bancroft is saying:  Patriarchal.  And (for me), here's the rub re: XNH:  He's patriarchal re: his treatment of me being braindead and d having no free will/brain matter/trust, yet egalitarian in his expectation that a woman's primary role is to bring in money -- and in that a man's new primary family plays no more important a role in his life than everybody else he knows, deserving no more respect or protection.  Even Bancroft describes this dynamic as more an attitude of "servitude" which, of course, is eNtitlement.

What's still creates the shift/break for me is that XNH didn't treat me this way until d was born, when the competition began for him and his FOO, and I was no longer available/answerable solely to him/them.

NewWings4MeNow

[SusyP14]

"Narcissists don't have a problem with everyone, or with people that are different. They have a problem with people who may reject them," Twenge said. "They have a problem with heterosexual women, because those are the people who might see through them, reject them and not give them the attention and adulation they feel they deserve."

Somehow this gives me a sick pleasure to know that I rejected xn.  As much as he D&D me, I did him as well (so to speak).  I told him to leave my house and he never heard a word from since.  I wish I knew that bothered him, but other then the blow to his ego, he probably has never given it a second thought.

[Litha]

Interesting, I wonder who narcissistic women direct their rage at? My first guess would be straight men, but then I thought about it and narcissistic women seem to cater to men and hate other women.

[tango3]

StbxN always struck me as a mysogonist.  If you asked him, he would of course come out with the politcally correct stuff (equal rights, blah, blah) but living with him and hearing him rant about women in the workplace - different perspective altogether.

His mother and his two sisters were exempt from being hateful women.

[betterdays]

Boy, does this ever put words to the feelings I have had, esp the part about "overtly hostile, adversarial ideas about women", and viewing them as conniving golddiggers.  That just sums it up.  Add in the competitiveness, and it sure looks like N.

[CZBZ]

"Men who scored the highest on the narcissism test were more likely to view women as conniving gold diggers, as teases who tempt men with sex and don't deliver, or as seductresses with plans to trick men and "get them under their thumb," Keiller said."

There may be another 'objectifying' category for women: his mama. O Hell, I hear this so much from middle-aged men it makes me wanna puke my guts out. "My wife "mothers" me too much" or 'She acts like my mother, not my lover" or the ridiculous accusation that 'having sex with my wife is like having sex with my mother...no wonder I can't get it up with her."

Whether the narcissist sees her as a 'gold digger, a tease (or a succubus sucking their souls while they sleep), or a seductress who controls him through his penis, it is ALL ABOUT HIM. I prolly don't need to say that seeing his wife as his MOTHER is all about him, too.

To those of us who have been criticized as such, the bottom line is that we are NOT human beings, just mental images in the narcissist's mind. UNFORTUNATELY, men have proliferated their pathology for eons of time because women did not have a voice to speak up for themselves. We couldn't give our side of the story and another reason we couldn't is because we didn't even know how to talk about ourselves! I still have to shake the 'socialization' out of my head now and then...even women themselves, have been trained to objectify their existence in relationship to a man and how 'he' sees her.

Here's a typical scenario of the midlife man who still expects his wife to meet his every need, in effect, seeing HER as his primary caregiver. LOL...She goes to therapy with him because she wants to stop acting like his mother because SHE believes what he is saying has validity (which society backs up). So then she buys chocolate panties, a pushup bra, tries to be more sexy and make their bedroom a mini-porn studio to counter the accusations that she was toooooooo mothering; afterwhich, he withers in fear because she's acting like a prostitute.

Here's the thing: these men are plucked up. I began to finally see that the problem was my husband's, not mine becuase of course I didn't view him as my father! Then I started reading self-help stuff that only BACKED UP his accusations and that made me feel crazy.

Underneath the 'objectification' of women is misogyny. No doubt about it. I have yet to encounter a narcissist who did not in some way, view himself as superior to women by devaluing them as human beings (peers). It can be slight or overtly obvious, but you'll know it when you see it IF you are breaking through old paradigms of women as inferior to men. Such a stupid notion it's hard to understand why it has proliferated for as long as it has. One reason, at least in my mind, is because women have been uneducated, disempowered, and disenfranchised---without voice.

Misogyny is not gender-specific. In fact, I MARVEL every day that women don't hate themselves...though times are changing. Misogynistic women (a narcissistic wound to her self-worth and self-esteem), still split men and women into Superior and Inferior. I never knew what that was as a young woman but I definitely knew something was 'off'. Maybe each generation works out the sins of the past???????

Anyway, that's where my head went while reading the article.


Hugs all,
CZ

[NewWings4MeNow]

THIS is probably the primary reason why I don't currently consider marrying again, or even being in an R with a man -- because I have yet to meet anyone in my general age range who actually thinks it's important to like me as a friend.  They go from "Hello" to the sex part.

I have to completely agree with CZ's assessment that once a woman tries to keep pandering to her supposed lifetime mate to keep garnering his attention -- though he signed a contract to be her mate for a lifetime regardless of all situations -- she's had it in terms of having a power position.  Her position was established the day they married; just because he goes through a crisis doesn't mean she has to keep REAPPLYING FOR HER OWN JOB.

He owns his crisis, but blames her for it.

This dynamic will fail.

Several years ago when d and I were visiting Santa Barbara's antiques area and were in a shop talking with the gals there, d blurted out, "A woman's job is to serve men," and both I and the women there reacted with severe alarm bells.  I had no idea where she'd gotten that, it certainly wasn't taught to her by me and even those women, who'd never seen her before, were all over her for it.  I can only imagine the "lessons" she'd been insidiously taught by XNH and whatever dynamic he's had going on with NW.  Criminy.  I nipped that one in the bud in short order.

NewWings4MeNow

[Flower]

...." because I have yet to meet anyone in my general age range who actually thinks it's important to like me as a friend.  They go from "Hello" to the sex part."   *NewWings*

Isn't that the truth!

A few months ago,  I become acquainted with a woman who works in the health care profession and happened to be single, but now she is in a live-in relationship. She said that the most difficult part of
dating, and most of that was from on-line dating sites, was that these guys would get personal way too quickly. She had to wade through alot of sh*t from these guys til finally she met her b/f.

Actually, from what I observe, it is not just the middle-age guys who act like pre-teens with girlie magazines, too many younger guys are the same way. All this "let's get it on" so quickly is promoted by
the media.  Sex nowadays seems to be just a recreational sport, as depicted by the media, which btw, I think is run by a bunch of narcissists.   
 
Flower

[CZBZ]

Maybe when enough women speak up about being 'objectified' by pathological men (let me add pathological because this is not a universal), women will stop being flattered just cuz some guy says she's sexy. What they don't know is that this is NOT a compliment and it doesn't mean he's interested in her as a human being. He's only interested in what she can do for him. I hear this all the time with my women friends who are flattered when a guy propositions her. She gets all full-of-herself and her ego is inflated like a balloon. Basing your self-esteem on your ability to attract admirers is a risky enterprise cuz one day you'll be invisible, like other older women.

Like you mentioned though, Flower, we are FED this stuff daily. We have reduced relationships to their lowest common denominator, that of the animal kingdom.

Maybe more people shoulda grown up on farms? There's nothing very titillating about bulls mounting heifers.

AND to be gender fair here: the narcissistic female sees herself as powerful when she gets a man to have sex with her. She basically, objectifies herself. Even if you are talking to her and suggesting that her behavior only decreases her self-worth and esteem, she can't hear you. She still competes with other women for men's attention and views herself as powerful if she can seduce him into choosing her. She's not emotionally available either and unfortunately, men make wrong assumptions based on their stereotyping of women as being nurturing, caretaking, and sensitive.

With narcissists, male or female, objectification of self and other is fundamental to the disorder. The narcissist's inability to be 'intimate' is also problematic IF they are with someone who desires more than a roll in the hay. Men get hurt, too. That has to be said.

And while I'm spouting off, may I just say that I am sick to death of commercials for viagra and extendz? And I"m sick of commercials for women's 'greater enjoyment'? Can't we run those stupid ads after midnight when our kids are asleep??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? What are we programming our children to think? that marriage is all about orgasms?????????????????

Hey, i like orgasms and orgasms like me but there's far more to building a relationship than sex. I hate what our children are watching on tv.


Hugs,
CZ

[betterdays]

Thank you for saying it.  It's all true, and as N said once when trying to play up to me,  "Women civilize men."  If so, we need to get to educating them, since the always seem to go from hello to sex in 60 seconds, to paraphrase NewWings.

(In saying that about civilizing men, the slimebag was trying to justify his extreme rudeness to my mother and brother, and tell me it was my job to teach him manners.  NOT.)

[CZBZ]

Here's a good one I heard as a young girl and didn't understand the ridiculousness until much later:

A man gets out of prison. Or a man has a drinking problem, a well-known philanderer. Or he causes trouble for his family, disrupts the community, steals, cheats, lies, swears, is rude to people and an all-together known hoodlum.

Then people say, "All he needs is a good woman to settle him down."

I do hope and pray that we are moving beyond that stoooooooooopid folk wisdom cuz it ain't wisdom: it's SACRIFICE. Like offering the nearest virgin to appease the volcano before it destroys the community.


Hugs,
CZ

[Flower]

"Basing your self-esteem on your ability to attract admirers is a risky enterprise cuz one day you'll be invisible, like other older women."
 *CZ*

I think there are women who base their identity and worth solely on their ability to attract attention with sexuality. I have a female relative who is like that and she
is pushing 40. Her days are numbered and she is going to have to find fulfillment within herself and her ability to be attractive in her age group.
It seems to me that older women (40+) are becoming more content with who they are and realize that they can aspire to be the best they can be without
resorting to wearing thongs and 3" spike heels.

Here's something that was forwarded to me in an email.  Please read to the last line, which sums it up very precisely:

THE GEORGRAPHY OF A WOMAN

Between 18 and 22,

 a  woman is like Africa. Half discovered, half wild,

  fertile and naturally beautiful!

Between 23 and 30,

a woman is like Europe. Well developed and open to trade, especially for someone

  of real value.

Between 31 and 35,

 a woman is like Spain, very hot, relaxed and convinced of her own beauty.

Between 36 and 40, a

  woman is like Greece, gently aging but still a warm and desirable place to visit.

Between 41 and 50, a

  woman is like Great Britain,with a glorious and all conquering past.

Between 51 and 60, a

  woman is like Israel, has been through war, doesn't make the same mistakes twice, takes care of

  business.

Between 61 and 70, a woman is like Canada, self-preserving,

  but open to meeting new people.

After 70, she becomes Tibet.

  Wildly beautiful, with a mysterious past and the wisdom of the ages. An

  adventurous spirit and a thirst for spiritual knowledge.

 
THE GEOGRAPHY OF A MAN

 

Between 1 and 80, a man is like Iran, ruled

  by nuts.

 

THE END.

 

[Litha]

OMG Flower, I am SO forwarding that to my gal-friends 

 
Litha

[betterdays]

I love it.

[CZBZ]

Well, Flower---I loved it when I was young and beautiful and turned men's heads. It's a real 'high' to feel like you're the queen of men's hearts and a real mistake to assume that means you have POWER. In my immature eyes, it was power and then I grew up and realized how ridiculous my thinking had been. Real Power is being able to walk in a restaurant, being ignored completely, and not feel diminished or irrelevant.

Is that maturation?   Nobody looks at me now and thinks to themselves, "What a hottie!" Not even the old farts with walkers. They're still oogling the youngun's that make them FEEL young and valuable themselves. It's still all about how she makes him feel and a fat older woman-his-own-age, makes him feel, well...makes him feel like he's a fat old man. hehehe

There's nothing wrong really with finding pleasure in being attractive but if you are basing your self-worth on your ability to turn men's heads, you are in for a major clinical depression when you get older. that's my two cents.


Hugs,

CZ of Africa

Tell my why this African wild woman thought she met her match with a jungle beast, and only realized years later that she had married a chicken?

[NewWings4MeNow]

Correction:  FLOWER'S post of The Geography of a Woman went e-mail viral over the past two years and has been passed around widely.

It's a classic -- funny, ironic and true.

NewWings4MeNow like Israel ... but reaching across the pond for Canada
(How utterly, amazingly appropriate a match of the country/culture and age group to my own sitch.)

[Flower]

NewWings..
What? Did CZ post this previously somewhere else? I had received this in an email forward and copied and pasted because I thought it was a way to show that woman have worth, no matter what age. That story is now in my favorite's file.


CZ..
The point I am trying to explain is that just because a woman is not at that prime age to be considered for modeling, or in narcissistic terms, a "babe,"  she still can strive to be attractive and attain a self-worth.
One doesn't have to go overboard and have the plastic surgery like Joan Rivers. Heck, I don't even recognize the former Joan Rivers anymore. Her cheeks are puffed-up like a blow fish and and her skin is so tight that she couldn't laugh
if Kenny G was serenading her on his trumpet. Heck, I'd pass out from shock! LOL.

Oh..and alot of these "jungle beasts" LOL don't age well.  They either get mean and nasty like a chimpanzee or become extremely reclusive.

Hug,
Flower of Israel

P.S. I have more to blab about this and will start another thread. I just wanted to respond on this thread.

[NewWings4MeNow]

Egad, Flower, I stand corrected.  I should have addressed my reply to YOU as having posted it.  I'm sorry.  Will correct it in my reply above.

I received this viral e-mail from a family member who got it from who-knows-where.

NewWings4MeNow

[Flower]

((NewWings))...not a problem. I was rummaging around trying to find where CZ posted it previously, LOL
I'll be on a rant later this evening about meN's expectations from women.
Hug, Flower

[redhairtemper]

Interesting, I wonder who narcissistic women direct their rage at? My first guess would be straight men, but then I thought about it and narcissistic women seem to cater to men and hate other women.

I have an N-sister and my ex MIL and SIL are both Ns and they rage at other women like you would not believe.  I haven't seen my sister in years but both my in-laws have even started to resemble men and seem hellbent on stamping out their femininity.  It's bizarre.