CZ, may I ask, if not, please take no offense

[betterdays]

Hi CZ,

I have been thinking of and praying over your nephew's health.  I hope he is finding his way to a clearer diagnosis, and feeling better.

With much affection,

betterdays

[CZBZ]

How tender, betterdays! He is doing amazingly well now that he has a diagnosis. Because he doesn't reveal a lot of what he's feeling, he finally opened up when he got his diagnosis. His biggest concern? That he'd have bipolar like his mother.   Asperger's Sydrome was a relief and now he's able to understand why he's had a hard time in school.

We still don't know why he has problems waking up. It's truly strange. We have an appointment to take him to a sleep clinic and maybe they'll find something. Maybe not. The next time he sees his physician, there are a few certain things I can ask the doctor about. Maybe we'll find an answer!

One thing for sure though, he is attached to me like sticky tape. hehehe...we are quite a bit alike though. His mom is extremely outgoing and gregarious and as you've likely figured out, I'm rather quiet. Plus, he can play his laptop while I'm on the computer and we're both totally and completely content. ha!

Anyone else have a child with Asperger's? I picked up a couple of books to read and it's very helpful. I wish we had known this five years ago but o well, when my kids were little, they knew even less!

Thank you for praying for him, betterdays. This means so much to us!  


Hugs,
CZ

[betterdays]

I am so glad he has a diagnosis and can know it is livable.  You are great to provide support, and your natural empathy will no doubt benefit him immensely.

One of D's friends has it, and they do bike riding together. Btw, this girl has had lifelong problems getting to sleep and staying asleep.  Her mom uses relaxation tapes, aromatherapy, and massage to help.  She suffers from significant anxiety, and coincidentally, her mom has bipolar, too.  Exercise is necessary but does not guarantee sleep for her.

[SusyP14]

CZ,

I just finished reading, or rather listening to,:  Look me in the eye, my life with Aspergers by John Robison

I really enjoyed it, he is a good story teller.  And he talks about how much the diagnosis helped him in terms of connecting the dots between his behavior and other peoples reaction to his 'oddness'.  He certainly has seemed to have a productive life including marriage and children.  AND he was raised by a screaming psychopath of a father and a very mentally ill mother.  He would probably be President of the US if you had raised him!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Look-Me-Eye-Life-Aspergers/dp/0307396185/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

[CZBZ]

hahaha, Susy!!

Guess what? I'm reading that book, too! The cover was so darling, how could a woman resist? So tell me, what made you pick that book to read???


Hugs,
CZ

[SusyP14]

I took a couple of road trips this summer and got immersed in Augusten Burrough books.  I had read Running with Scissors years ago and did not realize that he had written several other books since, like Magical Thinking, Possible Side Effects and A Wolf at the Table (all about his psychopath father).

I really, really enjoyed hearing him read his books (and I am not normally into audio books, as I am much more of a visual learner) but he is very campy and super gay, and I enjoy that super sarcastic gay humour.  I recommend them if you do not mind non-stop cursing and f-bombs.  Anyway, Wolf took me back a bit.  It was not remotely funny and I had no idea that his father was so horribly sick and abusive.  So I did some googling about his family (it was such a departure from the humour - really gruesome story), and this book popped up.  The library had this book on audio and I have a long commute now, so I picked it up as well.

Let me know when you are done, so that we can discuss something that really bothered me about the book, but I don't want to spoil anything for you, but it has to do with the father. 

[Freezer Burned]

She suffers from significant anxiety

One known cause of free-floating (unexplained) anxiety is buried (un-dealt with) anger. The person may not even be aware that they have that anger, let alone that they have buried it. Or they might feel that they don't have a "right" to that anger.

[RB22]

CZBZ,

Wren from the MLC site has a son with Auspergers... she will know the others that also have children.  Might be worth PMing her. 

Glad you got a diagnosis that truly explains a lot of his behaviors. 

I have had a sleep disorder.... it stems from NOT being able to get into a restful sleep during my 8 hours in bed.  I fall asleep ALOT, almost anywhere... some days it is a challenge to NOT fall asleep standing up in line at the grocery store... (and yes I have done it).   It especially happens when I am bored.... my priest knows when he is about to loose the congregation... all he has to do is glance at me... if my eyes are closed... he's lost his audience.   

I need to go teach kindergarden,  the 5 minute attention span I can relate to so well.

Hugs,

RB

[CZBZ]

It's such a curious disorder! These kids are smart, maybe even genius level intelligence and yet, they process information slowly. My nephew is almost 120% over normal for intelligence on all tested areas. He is 17% of normal in processing speed. As in Below Normal.

I tell my nephew to "Take out the trash and on your way back to the garage, change the sprinkler settings and then when you get in the house, clean the cat box."

He stares at me as if he's frozen up like a computer and can't make a move. It's the three things, you see. Tell him one at a time and he's fine---a regular Johnny-on-the-spot and happy to be helping. Tell him three things and he's lost. That's when he goes to Bouya Moon (what i call it as a joke and now he says it himself). He just stares at you. Nobody home. Just staring. ROFLMAO So I learned by experience (before reading a thing about Aspergers) to tell him one task at a time which also helps him feel better about himself!

Then the kid will sit there and ponder 'perpetual motion' or some other physics concept that gives me a royal headache! He couldn't get through school without extraordinary support (and pleading to his teachers on bended knees, plus a school psychologist, plus special privileges for 'disability') and yet, he took apart my old computer, rebuilt an external drive for himself and soddered other parts together to build a completely new computer with a better drive. O good heavens! And he got an F in computer tech????????

One thing I have noticed is his 'innocence' even though he is 18. I read a description that said Aspergers kids were 'guileless' which really seems to fit. I wonder though, are people with Aspergers susceptible to being targeted by Narcissists? That would make total sense to me!! They do not understand other people's motives, they are clueless about manipulation...they are smart and talented and can be very productive in the right 'field' of work---so all together, you have the perfect set-up for an opportunist to step in and take advantage of them.

This is a big concern for me. Not that he would be the manipulator but his partner would.

maybe that's an interesting thing to google?  


Hugs,
CZ

[Flower]

I am going to speak up here as a mother of an adult son with aspies.

Each person with aspberger's is an individual with their own personality, interests and intellect-- and there is varying degrees of aspies, along with other disorders that happen with aspies.
Anyone with me? LOL

Let me try to explain briefly..I'll try anyway.

We knew Jim was not like other boys from when he was little. He would not always play with them and go off and do his own thing, like taking stuff apart. So we ended up going to garage sales and buying junk clocks and such, just so he could take them apart. He was also Mr. Touchy. He would not leave things alone and talk about active! The terrible twos were indeed terrible.

Jim always had a knack for pizzing people off with his candor. If you don't want to know the truth, don't ask him cause he'll tell ya. I can't tell you the countless times I had conferences with the teacher's trying to explain his behavior.
Nevertheless, the teacher's couldn't figure how about his poor performance cause he was so bright verbally.  So, we consented for all these tests.

What they discovered is that his information processing ability through verbal commands was off. He was a visual learner. Also, he had ADHD without hyperactivity and he did have anxious tendancies. I think that was due in part to his grades in school and trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Jerry wanted to be accepted and he went along with the more assertive kids, and got in trouble because of this.

Yes, CZ, they are N-magnets cause they cannot read people's less than noble intentions. And that is a story for another time.

Kids with aspies can spend hours on end for their own interests, whether it be computers, or other gadgets.  However, they can barely maintain their attention span to sit through a test, if ADHD is a coexisting disorder.

Also, I had chores for Jim to do like empty the garbage, unload the dishwasher and straighten out his room. I would be lucky if one task would get done. Even now, when we make plans, he is usually late and will excuse his being late by saying that he was finishing up some project on the computer. Ha!  With their own interests, they can be hyper-focused and if it is something they don't want to do, it is half-azzed,  just like household chore or when he was in school: Homework!

To this day, we say that the reason Jim passed high school was that the teacher's did not want him again in their class, LOL.

As frustrating as Jim's quirks are cause of aspie's, we learned to deal with it...He's our son and we still love the big guy.

Hugs,
Flower

[CZBZ]

I must have forgotten about your son, flower. I kinda recall you mentioning this a very long time ago! It's good to know i have friends.  

As some people may remember, my nephew ran away about two years ago. He didn't come home from school as usual. He had met a new friend (and he has very few. He's content with his cousins and the women who live with him). His friend has a lot of problems and a record of anti-social type behavior (which we did NOT know until they were arrested). My nephew sat in juvenile detention for five days and we followed his psychologist's advice To The Letter.

As time as passed however, we now believe (as the therapist suggests), that my nephew just 'went long' for the journey because this kid was his friend and to him, you do what your friend wants to do. He impulsively said, "OKay. Let's run away" without a coat in the winter or any preparations at all. He definitely did not think it through at all and was doing whatever the other kid wanted him to do.

Without boring you with a million little stories, let's just say that his 'innocence' has been targeted by manipulators and this has caused even more social problems with other kids because he didn't realize what he was doing. Once he did (after the Runaway experience), he withdrew even more and was afraid of making friends. He'd' sit under the bleachers at school, all by himself. He wouldn't talk to girls because as he told me, "He was afraid he'd do something stupid and get in trouble."

The first psychiatrist tentatively diagnosed him with bipolar but that was inaccurate. Totally. He took major anti-depressants for several years and as he got older and this diagnosis was 'challenged', he went off medication completely. No change in moods. MOODS? wow, I'd like to see one! hahaha!

BUT, he also has ADHD, flower. I don't know much about ADHD and how it complicates his ability to concentrate and focus. As long as he is on his meds, he's okay. But whoa...even one day without Adderall sends him into orbit. Drugs to manage the ADHD are the only drugs he takes now.

One thing i must say however---I am SO grateful for the psychiatric community and the incredible progress they've made to help these kids get through the teenage years without ruining their lives. An accurate diagnosis is worth gold...it educates the people who love them so we aren't left to our own assumptions...like people who think he is 'lazy' or 'crazy' because they don't understand the disorder.

I'm all FOR a diagnosis. It's much better than not knowing why he is acting the way he is. for him, the diagnosis allows him to accept himself. We've made it very easy for him to view his diagnosis as a good thing, not a failure or defect.



Hugs,
CZ

[Flower]

I could tell so many stories about kids with L.D.s and other conditions that affect their mental judgement. You would not
believe how many of these kids end up in jails because they went along with a sociopath who took advantage
of their naiveness.

Let me tell ya, it doesn't take long for the police to determine who the leader is. Unfortunately, there is no laws on the
books for alternative treatment for unsuspecting L.D. kids who find themselves in trouble because of these sociopaths.

Hug,
Flower

[practicaljude]

Absolutely Flower,

My experience is seeing kids with Asperger’s come in to the hospital – not because they are having trouble in school, but because they have finally gotten in trouble.  Also, these kids come in for real or potential harm to self or others – not intentional harm, but harm created from a distortion of space, exploration, and/or impulsivity.  Hats off to you, CZ, and all the mom’s out there who love their kids and protect them.

 
Jude

[CZBZ]

I am grumbling today. We went to a minor league baseball game last night because my sis (mother of my nephew) got ticket's to the company suite, enough for six of us and none of the mucky-mucks were going so we had the place to ourselves.

They prepare the suite for the evening with food and beverages, and you know how kids are with free hotdogs and all you can eat hamburgers plus Mountain Dew and Coke and free potato chiops...ROFL. My nephew was grinning from ear-to-ear and thoroughly enjoying himself. He was animated beyond his usual self that is quiet and more withdrawn.

Well, during one of his jubilant outbursts, "Free Hot Dogs! I'm in Heaven!", my other sister, the one i call a porcupine, said critically in front of his cousins, "Did you take your meds today?"

My temper flared but i said nothing at the time. Just ruminated during one whole Inning, pondering how to deal with this in the future.

I need to figure out how to talk to people about not shaming this kid when he DOES show emotion and excitement. This will be tricky, though. If she even gives a thought to how embarrassing that was for him, she'll feel ashamed and then she'll shame me for shaming her for shaming him.

I'll figure out a way to talk with her. This one incident last night informed me that I need to come up with a plan that educates people about my nephew's Aspergers without over protecting him or controlling other people. I'll figure something out.   But one thing I will confront at this point, is asking him about taking his MEDS in front of other people (especially his peers!).


Hugs,
CZ

[Jacintae]

Hello

I listen to the podcasts from this site (Wise Counsel) quite a lot in my spare time and I find them interesting. I just noticed this one and thought it might be of interest. I did listen to it but am not really very familar with AS so can't make a judgement of this one - but anyway here it is.

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_index.php?idx=119&d=1&w=9&e=28653


Love
Jac xx

[Litha]

Well, during one of his jubilant outbursts, "Free Hot Dogs! I'm in Heaven!", my other sister, the one i call a porcupine, said critically in front of his cousins, "Did you take your meds today?"

My temper flared but i said nothing at the time. Just ruminated during one whole Inning, pondering how to deal with this in the future.

Suzette Elgin Haden, author of the Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense books, would recommend the "Boring Baroque Response."

Use The Boring Baroque Response
When I'm asked to teach just one quick technique that can be used in lots of situations and is easy to learn, I teach the Boring Baroque Response (BBR). Suppose you have to deal with someone who is forever coming at you with hostile attacks like "WHY can't you EVER do your share of the WORK around here??" and "WHY do you eat SO MUCH JUNK food??" and "WHY don't you stop DRESSING like a NERD??"
What your attacker wants is an interaction that goes roughly like this:

X: "WHY do you eat SO MUCH JUNK food??"
YOU: "Whadda you MEAN? I DON'T eat a lot of junk food!"
X: "Oh, NO? What about that DOUGHNUT I saw you eating ten minutes ago?"
YOU: "Listen, I didn't have time to eat breakfast! I NEEDED that doughtnut!"
X: "Oh, yeah? Well what about that PIZZA you ordered yesterday afternoon...."
And so on...

This gives your attacker a chance to run you through a long list of complaints about the way you eat, and to demonstrate his or her power to really get you going. Even if you come out of this thinking that you have "won the argument," you've lost -- because the attack worked, and the attacker got what he or she wanted. People like your attacker are like little kids who'd rather be punished than ignored: If the only way they can get your full attention is to get your negative attention, they'll settle for that.
Instead of falling for this tactic, use a Boring Baroque Response. Your attacker has come at you with "WHY do you eat SO MUCH JUNK food??" And here's what you say, while you stare not at the attacker but off into space, as if you were thinking deep thoughts.

"You know, I think it's because of something that happened to me when I was just a little kid. We were living in Detroit at the time, and...  No, wait a minute! It couldn't have been Detroit, it must have been when we were living in Indianapolis, because that was the summer my Aunt Grace came to visit us and brought her dog. You know those funny little dogs with the big ears that stick out? Well, this dog...." [And so on, for as long as it takes.]
A response like this delivers the following message: "I notice that you're here to pick a fight.  Do that if you like, but it's not going to be much fun for you, because I won't play that game." Listening to a BBR is excruciatingly boring. The most usual result is that by the time you've gotten to the part about your aunt's dog the attacker is already saying, "Oh, never MIND!" and leaving in a hurry -- while making a mental note that you're no fun as a victim and shouldn't be chosen for that role in future.

When the attack comes in the form of a statement instead of a question, as in "ALL YOU DO is stuff your face with JUNK food!!", just begin with "You know, hearing you say that reminds me of something that happened to me when I was just a little kid...." and so on. If you need a hifalutin version, say it reminds you of "an article I read only the other day in the New York Times. No, wait a minute.... It couldn't have been the New York Times. It must have been the Washington Post , because that's the one that comes on Thursday and Eileen always gets it before anyone else and....." . The BBR is also the best way to deal with none-of-their-business questions and comments from strangers. Like, "Oh, what a cute baby! It looks Chinese! [Or Spanish. Or whatever. The nosy stranger's point is that whatever the baby looks like, it doesn't look like it shares your ethnic heritage.] Where did you GET it?"  Just remember one thing: You have to do the BBR straight. If you sound sarcastic or patronizing or hostile, it becomes a counterattack  and it won't work.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd2.htm

[CZBZ]

"It is often thought of as identical to high functioning Autism (another, more severe disorder), but Kowalski differentiates the two disorders on the basis of social desire (Autistic individuals lacking the desire and skills to socialize, vs. Asperger's individuals having the desire to socialize but lacking the skills)."


Wow. Wow. Wow. Jacintae! Now I understand what the clinical psychologist was telling me. She said my nephew valued socializing with people and wanted to communicate with them. He is often 'rejected' because his communication skills are somewhat...huuumm... inappropriate at times? Ineffective? He misses the POINT and focuses on the logic of what people are saying and yes, most people are a bundle of contradictions when they talk. When he points out the contradictions, let's just say he alienates himself. 

If people are sensitive to criticism, they take it personally. But if someone has faced the Grand PooPah of criticism and worked through her triggers (me, LOL), they might not be as reactionary when he says, "You don't make sense!" This also gives me insight about why he feels safe with me. Another gift from the healing process.

This is a very helpful audio program! 

Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

"Use The Boring Baroque Response"

Dear Litha,

My entire life, I've been using the BBR and didn't even know it. You know, it's kinda funny because way back when I was a kid in rural Idaho..No Wait! It was back when we used to visit my grandparents in Louisiana because my father was a farmer and he had the entire winter off from work which reminds me. My uncle who was my father's brother sold insurance and didn't farm...." ROFLMAO


Great link, too! A very savy poster suggested I read Elgin's book on another thread. Or was it my blog? I can't really say where she recommended Elgin's book on Verbal Defense but anyway, that doesn't really matter. I ordered the book from Amazon.com. No, WAIT! That's not quite true. I ordered it from Amazon's list of used book sellers and I believe the business was in Canada, you know, where another of my uncles moved after he quit farming in the United States....

Seriously...great article and I checked out the other online articles by Elgin. Thank you!

What I could do then, should my porcupine sister 'shame' this kid again by asking if he took his meds is say, "Wow, sis! That reminds of when we were little kids and Mrs. Bailey taped your mouth shut because you said such inappropriate things and now every time you see duct tape, you have a panic attack!"

Would that be appropriate?  


Hugs,
CZ

[RB22]

Might not be appropriate BBR, but I would love to hear your nephews reaction when you say it.

I am learning a lot... thank you Ladies.

RB

[Litha]

"hmmm, did he take his meds--let me think...I know we took our vitamins this morning because we used the last of the orange juice to take them...wait, no, it was pineapple juice, I remember because I had this little cut on my lip that stung like the dickens and orange juice doesn't do that...unless it's the Florida brand and I never buy that unless I have a coupon...Walmart just doesn't do many coupons anymore of course their prices are so low anyway --especially for prescriptions...oh you were asking about his meds, sorry, I'm so forgetful these days I think I need meds --like great uncle Ferdi with his Alzheimer's -- what's that stuff he takes? anyway, he usually takes meds after he eats his cereal but we made pancakes this morning so it took longer to clean up, you know how pancake batter sticks to everything and the syrup gets everywhered, it must have taken me half an hour to get things cleaned up, I won't be doing that again soon I can tell you...so meds, meds, he must have taken them because..."

This is another example of a good time to channel Ben Stein 

Of course my mouth usually moves faster than my brain so I would have blurted out something like, "yes, he took HIS meds but YOU obviously forgot to take YOURS." Then I would have loudly joined in with your nephew agreeing that free hot dogs are indeed a heavenly thing.

As things escalated I would have remebered that the BBR would have been a better choice.

[SydneyFireworks]

LOL Litha!  My ex-MIL talked like that all the darn time.     She'd take out the Oscar for being able to completely switch topics with every second sentence and to keep going for HOURS on end!  In all other respects, though, she was the sweetest person.

Hugs
Syd

[Litha]

Hi Syd, good to hear from you! How's life down under?

[SydneyFireworks]

Hi Litha!

I'm fine thanks... had a busy five weeks overseas and although I've been back for a few weeks, I'm stuck in  "Do nothing, Go nowhere" mode.  I read here most days and like to keep up with what everyone is doing, but can't quite work up enough steam to post.    I'm just enjoying not having to rush around airports, train stations and bus depots, and not dealing with queues, airport security and all the other hassles associated with overseas travel these days!

I'm also enjoying not having to interact with my family (in UK).  LOL.  I have enough material about that visit to write another book.    Once I get my mojo back, I'll probably post about it on the board. 

Hugs
Syd

[Litha]

I can't wait Syd, that's definitely something to look forward to.