N Survivor Personality Changes

[NewWings4MeNow]

Over the past week or so I've been thinking about how profoundly I've changed over the past seven years.  

Sometimes I'm so glad and grateful for it.  
Sometimes I can see that the me who is now me seems to bear no relation to the me that was then.
Sometimes I feel like a war veteran walking around back Stateside, looking at the nicely scrubbed, laughing and safe-feeling people.

I just can't attach, now, to the details of daily life that they find important.
I don't seem to find the same things to be funny that they think are funny.
Anything past basic food, shelter, lights and transportation seems superfluous and, in reality, is, though those same things are what enhance life.
I am, in essence, currently not living a "mainstream" life.  

I am, OTOH, still working on defining what my near-future life should look like.  And it's hard exactly because of all the places I've lived and the substantial differences in each of those cultures.  I ask:  "Am I really a 'pearls and gloves' gal now?"  "Am I a social liberal Bay Area go-with-the-flow kind of woman?"  "Am I a more reclusive, close-to-the-earth Boulder mountain gal OK with being alone a lot with my creative work?"  "Where, oh where, can I live where all these parts of me can come together?"  <== This is my challenge to decide on my/our future.

For now, it's a stifling thing to be poor in a state listing five of the most expensive of the top ten real estate markets.  For now, it's a stifling thing to live hunkered down with a past of living in four of the five most educated areas of the U.S., and not being able to pursue those outlets.  For now, it's also OK living with the stressors so many tens of millions of Americans feel, in a situation actually so much better off than theirs -- because my economic negatives aren't as bad.

It is what it is.

Today I stated to myself that I'm not happy in life when I'm not building anything:  
My mind, a family, a home life, a community, a business, an offering, creating something.
This, this is my "have to have".
Today I realized that keeping my eye on this will bring new outlets and joys, small and large.

Today I realized that I was expressing my passions and creativity as I chose with XNH,
especially as he went MLC, and that he hated them.  Or envied them.  So hated me.

And that this must be my life's path:  Getting out, creatively, what's inside me, in whatever form.
Regardless of comfort, wealth or acceptance.

Sometimes I look back at photos of me as a child, of me in my 20s, and recall how I was then.  So full of fire, so out there with people, even when I was making minimum wage ....  Knowing that the world was my oyster.

The time of life when one selects a mate with the purpose of creating a family is so precious.  So fleeting.  It comes, goes and will never come again.  Yesterday I chatted with a new mother in our local dog park, and I could smell d's scent as an infant.  I could feel her in my arms.  I recalled the day I walked through our attic looking at all the baby stuff and had to make the decision to give up trying to have another child (infertility wasn't working the second time around and XNH didn't want more children due to economic reasons ... yes, I know ....).  Recognized the irony that I was technically fertile until just this past year, fully ten more years, and how during this time I so would have loved to have another daughter.  

Anyway, it's so very important to protect and defend that time of life if it's our greatest joy.  To work together as a team in a marriage.  To dedicate to solving whatever comes (as successful married couples I've talked with just do taken for granted).  

Which is why trying to save a marriage to a PD partner is so toxic.  There is no chance.  There is no "working through".  There is no "coming back toward".  Because there is no value.  No real love and affection.  No lifetime dedication barring all others.  

I've found that there are only few people with whom I can share what's happened with me, XNH and d.  And they're people who've experienced abuse.  They don't look like the shiny, happy, fit-bodied, sparkling women.  They're the tired, wary ones.  And even they say, "What a sick man."  Even now.

Everybody has their stories.  Most people have experienced some kind of mistreatment.  But the ones I run into have substance of self to hang onto, or maybe a sense of family/social belonging, or at least the safety of a permanent home (albeit possibly in foreclosure).  People wear their losses out on their sleeves much, much, much more now than I've ever seen before around here.  

This 'at least I belong to myself' gets old the older I get.  I long for attachment, sharing, interaction, eventually meeting any man who'd actually understand instead of be afraid.  On our fridge we have a magnet that says, "Friendship is when people know all about you, but like you anyway."  I don't know if that can hold true if you've dealt with an N and new friends you try to make have Not.  At the dog park, the abused gal with whom I chatted this past week is married again, and told me that when she gets emotional, upset or triggered, her H very smartly hands her a tissue and just sits by her quietly, letting her work through it (that which XNH called me being his "emotional boat anchor").  I almost applauded the woman, sensing that he values her beyond her experiences.  She told me what it took for her to deal with him straight up and tough, with firm boundaries -- and I realized that that was exactly how I was when XNH and I first met and were early married, until I had d and became more fully dependent on him.  I kept my boundaries all the way through, and kept them even after he and his family began to abuse me.  And now I don't hesitate if d's being b*tchy to tell her to cut it out and that I don't deserve her treatment ....  If custody weren't at issue I'd have told XNH to jump off a bridge a long time ago; instead, I remain silent.  I've realized that I began my FOO (and his family) abuse realizations around the same time that he began MLC and he chose not to deal with it.

It's interesting to let the reality of being an N survivor blossom into writing and talking about it.  It's amazing to me to find a new (and global) society among those psychologically Aware and/or becoming Aware.  These are folks who think and speak past surface level; they delve, analyze, get underneath and, for me, it's a good fit.  

Some years ago I'd never have dreamed that I'd latch onto this so strongly and decide to make it work for me.  (But I guess that, since I also used my exposures to XNH's science and techie topics to create some of my clothing designs deciding that very thing, this further extension also makes sense.)

All these experiences have made me a more solitary person -- an ENTJ who's morphed toward an INTP (if you know Myers-Briggs) as a matter of survival and personal peace.  Sometimes that fact seems severe and other times it seems so very natural.  

I think about my parents' life on Long Island, their established community, their lasting friends, the variety in their lives, and how I live seems so diminished from the trajectory I'd had for my life.  Others would say, "Big deal.  Crises happen to everybody.  Things change.  Some things are lost; others are gained."  And I realize that that life boils down to a snapshot in time that was Then.  My life is profoundly different, as d's is profoundly different from mine.  Some days this amazes me for how the world turns, some days I despair of it.  

By writing all this I'm actually wondering if those on WoN have had a similar sensation With Awareness:  That it has been a one-way trip for your entire life?  That fundamentals of who you are may have altered forever?

Bottom line is that:  Only when I feel really safe, really free, really hopeful, does the joy of the Old Me show.  It's in there, just buried very deeply now.  My dreams of the future (post-XNH impact) are with me; I envision them, am planning for them.  Eventually I will be able to touch them or something like them.

Just not today.  Today I wonder at the way the world turns, and the vast array of definitions of what really, truly constitutes being an N survivor.

I look forward to, and would appreciate, any WoN member's comments about any of this.

Thanks,

NewWings4MeNow

PS:  This past week d told me that NW had been to a political women's event *in my former town* (which XNH had said he'd "hated" and all the people in it) and had talked with *my former best gf* who'd asked about me and d, NW was then sure to e-mail and tell d.  I had no benefit of the doubt to give NW about her altruistic reasons for sharing that info, and told d so.  When she tried to neutralize it and NW's character, I reminded her that NW let her character be known seven years ago with her behavior with XNH.  I have no doubt she was reveling in her position.  My hardness to d's information was part of what led me to write this post today.

[Sweatheart]

NewWings, I definitely can relate to the most of what you are describing. I also feel different. I see danger where other people see fun. I see danger now where the old me used to see fun.

I also can not attach to certain normal things: like celebrations for example. I just can not feel any happiness about B-days, baby showers, weddings, etc.

I feel like celebrating small things, healing, another sunny day, smell of a fall. Big things do not inspire me for celebration, they inspire me for re-grouping and become more aware. I am still at war.

I do hang out a little with a few "normal" people. I sense their somewhat curiosity about me which is mixed with the desire to distance. As if they are slightly afraid of me. I accept it. I look at how they laugh, and I feel joy as well, joy that one feels when observing kids or young adults playing in a field. However my joy comes from the different place (at least I think so). They are laughing because they feel so and they feel great, I am smiling and feeling joy because I love seeing happy people. When something inspires me and I open up a bit, these people just watch me cautiously, they can not join. I guess what makes me inspired is not the same what inspires them. I am different.

I feel more at home with those who have seen hell. Nothing makes me more happy as seeing these people laugh and having a great time. "Normal" people usually avoid those. I understand that.

I do have some bitterness in me about "normal" people who have not seen a thing and think that everything is just great and dandy and they look at narcissists and think that narcissists are great people and then they just go their way to some another life celebration, another B-day, another baby shower, another cooking class and basically narcissist is never threatening to them because narcissist is not interested in B-days, baby showers and cooking classes. So easy to be protected from narcissist. All I have to do is to fall in love with cooking classes, baby showers, etc. And I can not.

[May]

I can relate to the holiday thing.Some holidays have been better than others but for the most part, I don`t like holidays or b-days. Especially my own b-day.  I told my dh that I won`t be decorating for Christmas this year. I guess I`m just tired of faking it and trying to be happy during  the holidays. I don`t have any little kids anymore so until I have grandkids, then I`m not going to make much of it anymore.

[Julia]

Wings, I want to reply, and will when I have a bit more time/ kids at school. THis is something I have been thinking about a lot, and I am pretty upset about it as well.

Julia

[Litha]

I was never a big football fan, but I would watch the "big games" with family and friends occasionally. Now I can't stand to watch a contest to see who is the biggest fastest bully on the field. Even the commercials they show during football games are offensive and scary to me, and the whole concept of cheerleaders for professional sports is revolting IMHO.

Basketball isn't much better.

I no longer enjoy shows/movies/plays that depict narcissistic characters in a sympathetic, heroic, or humorous  (unless we get to laugh at their ridiculous antics) manner. I've come to realize that eliminates most current entertainment.

Here's an ironic twist for you though. Growing up in N-FOO I always believed myself to be a "melancholic" personality. As I've gone through therapy over the past year, however, I'm realizing more and more that I am naturally "sanguine." My naturally sunny and optimistic personality is likely what provoked the most ire from my FOO, and it is no wonder I became melancholy in an environment that was determined to squash down any positive energy I expressed.

Now it is as if my emotions are trying to make up for all those sad years. I feel buoyant and happy for no reason most of the time. And I steer away from anyone who appears to be annoyed by that, choosing instead to be with other people who need little more than a pretty stretch of trail to experience joy.

[Sweatheart]

Litha, what a wonderful post!

I SO agree with your attitude toward shows/movies/games. Sports I find boring, especially the group sports as soccer, football, baseball, etc. I never thought about it, but it rings true to me when you mentioned about "admiring" the biggest and fastest bully. Yep. I see that.

Movies are more painful for me. May be because it is not obvious that the movie is going to be about admiring N. You never know. Some movies are actually very good. However the chance that the movie is going to be about N is very high.

For example I never saw Harry Potter. However I heard that Harry Potter is a perfect N - a child that never grew up. I observed lines of people who wanted to buy this book, just a few days ago I heard how adults were talking about dressing up for the movie in costumes of some characters. Why people do that, I do not understand and can not relate. Why someone decides not to be oneself for the movie? I can understand a party where everyone is talking, dancing together, etc and people dress up - I wouldn't want to do that, but at least I see some point in it. But to dress up to sit in a dark while watching a movie - what's the point? When I think about it, I feel that I do not have any sense of humor.

I recently watched one movie which I found horribly painful because it described a terrible personality. All people that I know who watched this movie, think that the main character is charming and wonderful and I am oversensitive and negative. I do not understand why these people find the main character charming when he destroyed life of all the people who liked him and danced through the life manipulating others and NEVER really applying any labor, but only through making a right impression". I do not understand why people liked to be tricked by another, because this is the only trait that was so profound in the main character - he could trick other people. Why people like that?

I used to smoke. I do not smoke anymore. One guy, who does smoke a bit and sort of wants to quit but is afraid of a discomfort it would bring into his life, asked me recently: "Do you still feel pangs of desire to smoke?" I told him: "No, I do not. What I feel is much worse than that. Sometimes when something reminds me about my smoking past makes me grieve about all these years I wasted doing it, it evokes a fear, a horror about what I was doing to myself and why. It is a very hard feeling. Pangs of desire? You are kidding me! No." This guy looked at me with disbelief and caution. They do not understand. he doesn't know. He doesn't know HOW and WHY I quit. He thinks I am weird or oversensitive. I do not belong to his world.

I do not believe that my alienation from the main stream is caused by N-experience. N-drama liberated me to become who I am. I always was different but through my whole life I tried to fit into main stream by sacrificing my true nature. MAY BE I am disordered. MAY BE. However disordered I am or not, I am done appeasing eternal judges who are using my desire to be nice and pleasant for their own convenience.

One of the self-help books told that in order to detach from N-feeding one has to go through alienation and learn how to stand alone. The author ("Betrayal Bond, Patrick Carnes) tells you that nobody will understand you even if people are good, they can not empathize something they have never been through themselves.

Yes, when we saw the result of this narcissistic upbringing, we have zero tolerance to it. Zero. Because we know the danger it brings. It makes my heart sink when I see normal people enjoying narcissists.

[Lapin]

I just wrote a lenghty reply, but lost it in cyberspace.  I don't have the energy to rewrite it. 

New Wings, I cried when I read your post.  I could relate to most of it, especially the comments about having another child, the desire to pursue creative interests, and the need to focus on survival elements.  The last seven years for me too have been a dramatic change.

I don't dare have casual converstaions with people in dog parks, other shoppers at registers, etc.  If a stranger tries to make small talk, I make a polite reply or smile while showing no interest in extending the conversation.  The N worked very hard at making me isolated from others and I fought very hard against his efforts.  In the end, he won.  My isolation is self-imposed.  I don't live a mainstream life either and while I am glad that most people are out there lving life, I don't want to be reminded of my own losses.  I can deal with it within a ficitonal context, stories, movies, books, etc. but not from someone else's reality.  I also don't want to deal with others being judemental right now. 

[RB22]

when X left.. we were almost done with a major renovation project.. Painting a large living room.. and laying down wood flooring in the living room, hallways, den and dining room.  The den had to be done after he left. He did it (with the kids) and he did such a crappy job... that I told him I would do the dining room, he was done NOT doing things right in my home.   

That was 7 years ago... there are no pictures up in my living room.. den... or the completed dining room.   I have 4 kids.. I take pics... they take pics.. yet none are hanging.

Today I stated to myself that I'm not happy in life when I'm not building anything: 
My mind, a family, a home life, a community, a business, an offering, creating something.
This, this is my "have to have".
Today I realized that keeping my eye on this will bring new outlets and joys, small and large.

Today I realized that I was expressing my passions and creativity as I chose with XNH,
especially as he went MLC, and that he hated them.  Or envied them.  So hated me.

And that this must be my life's path:  Getting out, creatively, what's inside me, in whatever form.
Regardless of comfort, wealth or acceptance.-NewWings

I could have written this.. I was always crafting growing up.  It is just part of who I was/am.  And it took me until I did my dining room... I painted, BF and kids put floors down... I repaired a Duncan Phyfe table for us to use... found curtains.. and a rug to match the curtains... little bits of 'treasure'  to make it mine.  But still nothing on the walls.

I scrapbooked... till just before he left... I have probably THOUSANDS of pics of my kids... Not a lot of him as he was the photographer... very little put in books since before he left. although I have been known to teach a scrapbook class or 2. 

When he was here.. outside was his domain.  Now it is mine... and it is where I find myself at the most peace... sitting on my porch overlooking the flowers I planted that are growing and flowering... while sitting on the wicker loveseat I found on craigslist.

It is almost as if I have to remake my life (and refurbish parts of it)  to fit who I am now.  I take pride in saying "I did it myself"  or "I had this idea" ...

And for some reason... what I envision and the end product are the same... THAT never happened with him.  I often wonder if it was because the N glasses that I was wearing, interfered with my creative visions? 

When I create something that others remark on.. I feel a quiet pride along with great humility that someone noticed my work and commented on it that they liked it.  It gives me deep joy.... but not the kind that is overly demonstrative.  Sort of like a smile.. but on the inside.

I was never really into sports.. I like football when I am in the stands.. but I can walk away.  I had never thought about it being a game of bullies...

Soccer to me (cause I played in HS and my D's play) is a game I enjoy... because it is a game of skill... and it is one of the few games that can be truly played Co-ed.  It takes quite a bit of endurance to play.. more than football as the ball stops moving every few seconds/minutes.  Soccer is very fast moving.

Movies with N's used to bother me... now they don't.  Some TV shows  I just cannot watch... reality TV has been that way for me. 

I feel changed... more mature in my outlook... and more reflective and guarded about what and who I let into my life.

I don't know if the N was the catalyst for change... would this change have happened anyway... I am prime age for MLC... I am thinking those thoughts of mortality, leaving a legacy, etc.  Did the N cause these paranoid thoughts of death... or is it something that happens to most of us at some point in our life.

I do know that I am changed... the drama is still swirling around me.... I just choose not to participate and let it keep swirling around. I recognize that I am not contributing to the swirling nor am I contributing to the taming of the swirling.  And I can do that without feeling quilty.  THAT (I feel) is an accomplishment.

I don't relate to people the same... either.  But I do make small talk with people... I just don't expect anything from the conversation to go anywhere.  And I am usually not disappointed... and sometimes pleasantly surprised to find that it does go somewhere for another person. 

I feel more passive in this world than I think I have ever felt before.

[NewWings4MeNow]

RB,

Verbatim.

Mature, reflective, guarded, passive, mortality, legacy, MLC, no expectations etc.

For me, all the typical midlife anxieties ... without many of the joys.  (E.g. D went with XNH to his family this past weekend; I now haven't heard from her in four days -- a big change from our two hours together daily on Skype while she was in Argentina.  Boundaries, subliminal messages, separating etc.)

Good for you re: creativity.  I MADE our homes everywhere we moved.  Re:  Photos, I have a lot up of my own life Before XNH, and of my life with d After XNH, but there's a big gap in between.  It's weird to have to assess photos/decorations as to their suitability and impact on one's psyche.

A LOT of TV and movies bother me now.  Some I also simply will not watch, as my entire definition of "entertainment" has pulled back to my parents' era when it was just that.

Do lowered expectations equal defeat?  Residedness?  Powerlessness?  Or re-choosing ...?

RB, perhaps photos hung aren't the celebrations that they would have/should have been, but you and your kids deserve them anyway.  I've planned with d an entire weekend day doing nothing but looking at photos, and putting up a lot more than we have. 

Lapin, hugs.  I didn't take to the Harry Potter craze, as it had been XNMIL who recommended the books to XNH as he dove more completely into all things fantasy.  Eventually I saw the films, and they are excellent, but certainly there are PD issues within some of the characters.

Standing alone.  Being one with ourselves.  Being true to ourselves. 

Ns as the catalyst for change <== I definitely agree with this.

NewWings4MeNow

[Sweatheart]

RB you brought up the topic of passivity.

I want to share something my xNGF told me many times. She said that once she had this revelation after which her life became nice and pleasant to live.

She said that she abandoned any expectations and lives her life with this attitude: I will see what happens. If something goes one way she accepts it and if something goes completely the opposite way, she accepts it. She learned how not to form any desire/expectation for anything in order not to get disappointed. Basically she said that she is sailing through life very passively.

I asked her: "But in order to muster this way of living one has give up on any initiative, one can not have any plans, one can not start anything, because when we start something we do have plans, expectations and desires". She agreed: "Of course. I will never initiate anything."

I remember thinking about it and even sharing it with my husband, whose reaction was: "Why someone would like this fearful life?"

I realize that our hurt from N does make us fearful of another hurt that might come from people and outside world. I am the same as you are and I try to avoid many things... However I try to keep in mind what my xNGF was saying about her revelation. I definitely do not want to end up like her.

Just sharing,

Hugs,
SH

[RB22]

Thanks SH.

Right now I am all over the place with feelings... up down.. assertive, passive...

It will all sort out... eventually.

thanks,

RB

[NewWings4MeNow]

It's important to take inventory of the things in our lives which have gone right and wrong in the past when we've applied initiative, because there's a load of both.

To me it's not so black and white, and I will continue to *both* apply initiative in directions where new-found discernment indicates new/few flags, and steer around directions where I sense N-like problems/complications.  It's important to step out and test newly learned knowledge. 

Having lesser expectations, correctly placed, is a good thing and keeps us in gratitude and focused on what went right.  If we're fortunate enough to rebuild a heap of "what went rights", our expectations regrow to past 'the least possible' with that reinforcement.

Personally, I think that intimate Rs with Ns create indelible impressions and, for the parts of them that are/were good, they're hard to top.  In the movie "2012" the XH (John Cusack) asks his XW if she loves her live-in.  She says, "I love him enough."  Yet, in the end, her heart was more strongly touched by XH and that had never left.  (This reference isn't to an N character, just the emotional attachment message.)  Some of us will experience loving enough *or* loving really, truly for real and for always in a next/future R, others of us will be OK with leaving the N R where it was, as the one which impacted our lives the most. 

NewWings4MeNow

[monique94550]

There is so much in this string that lends itself to a "12-step program."  I think N-survivors are like recovering alcoholics and also al-anons (people whose lives are affected by loved ones who are alcoholics).

As an N-survivor, I'm addicted to my xN.  The 12 steps have been used by many groups of people, not just alcoholics.

All the 12 steps are "we" rather than "I," because it is a "we" program, not an "I" program.  You are not alone.

The first step:  "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable."
The first step spiritual principle is HONESTY.

For N-survivors, we are powerless over the N.  We have to admit we can't make him change, although we sure have tried!  "Our lives had become unmanageable," means to me, "I tried to manage my life, and THIS is what happened.  I am not where I wanted to be."

The second step:  "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
The second step spiritual principle is HOPE.

This is a real tough step for those who have a problem with "God" or any higher power.  But I could accept there is a power greater than me.  I can't create a seed and make it grow into a sunflower.  But something can.  I'm willing to believe there is a higher power.  And I'm willing to believe I can get help from that higher power.  My years listening to stories of unbelievable recovery in AA have made me a strong believer in a god.  Prayer that works has made me a strong believer.

The third step:  "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
The third step spiritual principle is FAITH.

This step to me came to mean that every morning I pray for my higher power to help me make the choices that will allow me to live in the sunlight of the Spirit.

I believe in free will.  I also believe in the basic concept of a force for good in the world, as well as a force for evil.  I call the force for good “Higher Power,” (others call it God, Creator, Source, Universe, Love, etc.) and I call the force for bad “Evil.”

I believe Evil is trying to influence me all the time.  It tells me I don’t want to get out of bed in the morning.  It tells me my life sucks, and that I’m a failure, and that I’m fat, etc.  It also tells me to procrastinate, to wait until the last minute, to be full of fear, to judge, to be intolerant.  Those messages come through loud and clear.

My Higher Power, on the other hand, gives me quiet messages, that I have to be really in tune to hear.  Also, my Higher Power doesn’t influence my behavior unless I ask it to, because of free will.  I must ask it to change my behavior.  And so my daily prayer.

Each day is full of choices.  I can choose to stay in bed and feel depressed, or I can choose to get up and jump in the shower, which always makes me feel better!  Why wouldn’t I naturally want to jump in the shower if it always makes me feel better?  Because of the influence of Evil.

It’s just like someone posted about not having hung pictures.  How many days has she walked in that room and felt bad that she hasn’t hung any pictures?  And if she just did it, and hung the pictures, it really wouldn’t take that long.  And those pictures would give her so much joy.  And she might say to herself, “Why did I wait so long to do that?”  And I think that’s because of Evil.

I have to ask my Higher Power to help me, not only in prayer in the morning, but in prayer throughout the day.  “Help me to leave for work early so I don’t have to fight traffic and feel ashamed because I’m late.”  “Help me to eat healthy foods, so my body works better.”  “Help me.”

Next come the action steps:

Step Four:  Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Spiritual Principle:  COURAGE
Step Five:  Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Spiritual Principle:  INTEGRITY.

These steps kind of go together.  In Step Four, I was taught to write out four columns:
First column, “Who Do I Resent”
Second column, “Why?”
Third column, “How Does This Affect Me?”  (Does it threaten my self-esteem, my security, my pride, my personal relationships)
Fourth, and most important, column:  “WHAT IS MY PART IN IT”?

Then in the Fifth Step, we sit down with someone we trust (in AA, usually it’s our sponsor, who is the person we’ve asked to take us through the steps; this person usually has long-term sobriety, has worked the steps, has a sponsor herself, and has what we want in terms of spirituality, principles, etc.), and we go over our Fourth Step.  We tell her EVERYTHING.  No secrets, because secrets make us SICK.  Even though we think much of what we have done as a practicing alcoholic is horrible, when we tell it to her, she doesn’t flinch, because she’s always heard much worse!

With the help of our sponsor, we go through our Fourth Step and identify patterns of our behavior that have caused us pain.  Those patterns typically help us identify our most glaring character defects.  My primary one was dishonesty, in that I didn’t show people my true self.  I gave them what I thought they wanted.  Then, eventually, I resented them for it, and I punished them and left them.  This is very entwined with what I am learning now about my lack of boundaries and my lack of self-love.

Other character defects of mine include, but definitely aren't limited to, jealousy, lack of discipline, self-pity, self-centeredness.

Step Six:  Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Spiritual Principle:  WILLINGNESS.
Step Seven:  Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Spiritual Principle:  HUMILITY.

These sound easy, but they are lifelong.  We must be willing to let go of our shortcomings, and ask our Higher Power for help in getting rid of them.

Step Eight:  Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Spiritual Principle:  BROTHERLY LOVE.
Step Nine:  Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Spiritual Principle:  DISCIPLINE.

First of all, let me say that I put myself on the top of the list of people I had harmed.  And also how important it is to take this step with the guidance of a sponsor (or spiritual advisor), in that sometimes we think we have harmed someone, and we really haven’t, or sometimes it’s best to not try to make amends to someone, since it would do nothing but hurt them more.  We can’t get rid of our guilt at the expense of someone else.

And amends doesn’t mean saying, “I’m sorry.”  It means a clear understanding of what I did wrong, how it hurt the other person, asking the person how I can make it right, and then doing what they ask.  It especially means NOT REPEATING the same behavior.  Financial amends means paying off whatever debt I owe.  Sometimes it’s just a living amends – living in a sober, principled way.

With this step, we begin to be able to look others in the eye as we walk down the street.  Our shame and self-hatred abate.

Note:  I suggest NEVER try to make amends to an N.  They will just use it against you, and hurt you.  This has been my experience with one particular N in my life.  There is no reason to put yourself through that.  I am willing to make amends to other N's in my life, but my sponsor has told me not to.

Step Ten:  Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Spiritual Principle:  PERSEVERANCE.

This step is so that no more trash accumulates in my soul.  I keep my side of the street clean on a daily basis.

Step Eleven:  Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Spiritual Principle:  AWARENESS OF GOD.

Pretty self-explanatory.  For me, His will is that I be happy, joyous and free.

Step Twelve:  Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Spiritual Principle:  SERVICE.


How this works in reality for me is that it allows me to KNOW there is a Higher Power that I can go to for help.

It also teaches me that I need to put in the work and take the action necessary to get what I want, but THE RESULT IS OUT OF MY HANDS.  Once I prepare as I should for a test, or interview, or whatever, I can rest and relax, because THE RESULT IS OUT OF MY HANDS.  It’s in my Higher Power’s hands.

It teaches me I am powerless over alcohol, BUT I HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO A POWER THAT WILL HELP ME STAY SOBER.  For me as an N-survivor, I know I am powerless over my xN, but if I sincerely ask for help from my Higher Power, I can stay away from him, and I can recover.

Also I know that there’s nothing I can do to change my past.  I need to embrace my past, because it has taught me valuable lessons, and it is experience I can use to help others.

And the future hasn’t happened yet, so there’s no reason to worry about it.  I can take whatever is going around in my mind that I can’t figure out, and I can write it down on a piece of paper and put it in my “God Box,” and so literally hand it over to my Higher Power.  The answer will come.

This has helped me SO MUCH.  Things work out, if I let them.

The 12 Steps don’t advocate Christianity or any other type of religion.  It’s purely spiritual.

By doing these steps, I feel like I got the directions to life that I never had (that it seemed like everybody else got when they were born, but not me).

By belonging to a 12-step group (I go to AA and Al-Anon), I find people who are like me, who have been to hell and know what it’s like.  They understand when I say things that “normal” people would really consider off-the-wall.

For N-survivors who have ANYONE in their lives with a drug or alcohol addiction, I would strongly suggest going to Al-Anon.  Also many N-survivors also qualify for S-Anon, which is for people whose lives have been affected by loved ones who are sex addicts.  The only thing is, there aren’t that many S-Anon meetings around.

If you’re interested in finding an Al-Anon or S-Anon meeting, all you need to do is Google Al-Anon and the name of your town or nearby large city, and you’ll get contact information.  Also know that some meetings are better than others in terms of SOLUTIONS (rather than people just sitting around talking about the PROBLEM), so go to different meetings, and hopefully you’ll find a place you fit in.

Let me apologize ahead of time if any of you feel I’m overstepping my boundaries.  That’s not my intention.  I have just found an amazing way of life in AA because of the 12 steps, that I want to share it with you.  Many of the issues faced by recovering alcoholics are similar to those faced by recovering N-survivors.  And in Al-Anon, many of the issues revolve around boundaries and codependence.

Love,

Monique

[NewWings4MeNow]

I can see where some folks would liken N/P survival to an addiction.

However, for those of us who were in Rs with X-mates for years that were or seemed Normal, then we were on the receiving end of their MLCs (midlife crisis) and N explosions, the challenge comes when we're forced to have to continue to interact with a person whom, under other circumstances, we would have let go of and left behind years ago (as I'd been comfortable doing with prior Rs that didn't work/broke up with people who didn't wage war against me) -- if we share kids or businesses or are tethered against our will in any other fashion.

Lundy Bancroft stresses that, to abusers, Rs are wars and, when egos and power positions are defied or challenged, their objectives are to achieve revenge, dominate, control and subjugate.  He also states unequivocally that the abuser is the sole owner of responsibility for these behaviors.  A victim's primary objectives are (1) Get safe, and (2) Get out.

NewWings4MeNow

[monique94550]

What is MLC?

[jenrussell2]

I know I have changed so much over the last few years of living with N's.  I too was a very happy, vibrant person at one time, with so many hopes and dreams of a happy, fulfilling life  I did not want to repeat the life my mother endured living with my father. I wanted to be different. 

The N's in my life changed all that. I know I have changed  in regards as how I see other people, friends, family, celebrations, holidays.  I had got so used to the ex n's pessimistic attitude that everything was wrong with life, and what was the point of any celebrations, it was all a waste of money, time and effort. So I gave it all up. There was no point in celebrating. Going away on holiday was always a disaster, parties were a disaster, even going out to a restaurant could never be enjoyed with the always wandering eyes undressing every female within eye shot. It really was true, why bother, the world didn't care about you. It was take what you can because people get used all the time.  That was how I felt, I was used, by the N's in my life and so my views on the world changed.   Now he is gone out of my life I find I can't relate to my new life situation.  I need to get back the part of me that cared, cared about people, cared about myself and what was going on around me instead of shutting everyone out and myself in. I need to get my morals back and not just accept what others do as being alright because they can get away with it.  i want to feel good about myself again.  I feel like I am fighting something, but not sure what I am fighting.  I expect to have that feeling for a while yet.

 

From what I have read on this post everyone who has lived the life with an N struggles to get over the damage they do to our mind and body.  The thoughtlessness of every action and word.  I have met a few women since I left the N who have had very similar lives and are now single, still struggling to be happy, but so relieved to be free of the abuse.  We seem to be increasing in numbers too and no doubt the same applies to men too.   
 

   

 He passed on to me the whole question of why bother. Why celebrate being another year older, why bother spending money on a gift for someone because they won't appreciate it anyway, why bother visiting, let them come and visit.

When I left the N I realised I had forgotten how to celebrate anything.  I find it hard to feel anything.  I find it hard to fit in with family. I find it hard trying to make sense of trying to make a new life.  I find it hard to find the reason, what is the point in it.   

I

[CZBZ]

Hey Monique! Your post about 12-step was absolutely fantastic! I attended Alanon during two difficult times in my life: because of my teenagers and because of my X-husband who tried to be a teenager again when he was fifty. Seems a lot of folks are doing that these days. Harumphf!

MLC= MidLife Crisis

Anyway, I'd like to repost your message about 12-step if that's okay with you?

Also, I'd like to write about my positive experiences with Alanon. Alanon was instrumental in teaching me how to change 'my' behavior when what I wanted to do was: change everyone else's. ha! Yea, you know what I mean!

I have very little experience with AA but can validate everything you've written explaining Alanon.

I was just thinking the other day that it might do me 'well' to get myself back in Alanon meetings. From time-to-time, it helps to be regrounded in 12-step principles and practices. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this wonderful post.


Hugs,
CZ

[monique94550]

Charlotte, thank you so much for your kind words!  Yes, please post it wherever you want.  I love the 12 steps.  They have been such a gift to me.  I've found a very nice Al-Anon meeting on Wed nights, and I'm attending that at my AA sponsor's direction.

Monique

[SusyP14]

Lundy Bancroft stresses that, to abusers, Rs are wars and, when egos and power positions are defied or challenged, their objectives are to achieve revenge, dominate, control and subjugate.  He also states unequivocally that the abuser is the sole owner of responsibility for these behaviors.  A victim's primary objectives are Get safe and Get out.

Wow, I love that quote.  LOVE IT.  I have been thinking about this A LOT lately.  I am SO DIFFERENT NOW.  I hardly remember myself.  The thing is Narc aside, it has been 2 years of hell:

15 year old cat died, narc break up, 6 diverticulitis attacks in 6 weeks followed by major surgery, job lay off, 14 year old dog died, the necessity to short sell a house, a move, 8 months of unemployment, become employed at a substantial salary decrease, mother diagnosed with stage 4 cancer.

Perhaps that is simply called middle age, where you trade in wedding invitations and baby showers for news of funerals and chronic illness?

Regardless things that I use to find tolerable and amusing, like people that take a big stock in horoscopes (no offense to anyone reading), well it just does not make sense to me anymore.  I used to think that everyone was trustworthy until proven otherwise, aka innocent until proven guilty.  Now I think everyone, or at least, men have to prove themselves trustworthy.  Perhaps I was too naive before.  I don't know.  I know I miss seeing life through rose colored glasses, but once you have been stung, you cannot pretend like pathology does not exist.  I want to be a funny, happy person, I don't want a bitter heart.

[NewWings4MeNow]

I think that the bottom line is ... safety.

Feeling socio-economically safe in our home/financial situations.

Feeling physically safe in terms of perceived or imminent physical/personal harm.

Feeling psychologically safe vis-a-vis N/P or any kind of predatory malicious intent upon our esteem.

Inside me there's still a funny, playful woman.  There's still a raucous, live/love/laugh gal who's fully self-expressive.  There's a person who challenges, delves, understands, supports.  (That woman was free to live as such when the worries of basics like weekly food, clothing and shelter didn't put her in perpetual survival mode.)

That person has been bludgeoned.  Much worse than others, much less than so very many.

Susy, I'm awed by your strength in the face of so many upsets and losses across the board.  They've happened for me too, but over an extended time period, and sometimes clustered in seasons.  

Yes, I agree too that it's glaring to go from strollers and giggling 30-something gfs to not being able to keep up with physical aging changes and the needs of ailing selves/family through no actions of our own -- just the passage of time and wear-and-tear.

It's also so glaring to me how all those changes/losses can be buoyed to almost closeted when one has a loving, supportive mate to weather all the storms -- and how exposed one is when there's no such support system to readily highlight the joys instead.

Is it a myth that there's no really safe place in life?  I don't think it's so black and white.  I think there are many safe circumstances and moments -- question is whether they greatly outweigh the unsafe times.

NewWings4MeNow

[smp]

After many years in Alanon - I found much help in asking for the willingness to believe - for some reason I just really struggled with the steps until I asked for it. I do like the idea of a higher power - I would hate to see my life if I was really in charge myself!

[Bruna]

Rest assure ladies, none of you has a bitter heart.
We are survivors yes, healing actually and sometimes we get disease rebound and we remember all the hurt that has been done to us. But we will heal completely, won't we? Somehow what happened to us will make us better people.
That is a hope more than a belief.
N personality changes? you are right, very right I can totally relate. XN made me more neurotic and isolated than I was before. he destroyed my self esteem. Our break up basically lasted 3 years and it was hell.
I was probably luckier than most of you because I  spent  8 years with him and thank God I had no children, the break up was less painful but the damage is there. People that have not dealt with Ns don't understand what we are talking about, but the time to feel isolated in our pain is OVER.
I just can't let him win by suffering indefinitely for the pain he has caused me. I simply refuse such legacy. I refuse any legacy from him. He was my first lover, my first boyfriend and I truly loved him. He hurt me but he didn't break me. I am resilient to narcissists because I have been raised by one, and I was fascinated by them for the very same reason. Yet the minute I knew how they operate the spell is broken. I am sorry for them because they are in hell, in the darkness, never to be touched by a beam of light. . But I won't let my sorrow get in the way, I need to protect myself. Yes we need to be safe. Yes we've been traumatized, but we are not their objects anymore. We might have been duped or hurt but it's over!!!!
 
Bruna

[Liftedup]

I think about my parents' life on Long Island, their established community, their lasting friends, the variety in their lives, and how I live seems so diminished from the trajectory I'd had for my life.

I found your post interesting.

I did not obtain the life my parents had, but I see sometimes the beat down of poverty, as abusive as they were. Modern life, we have become economic nomads, forced to wonder to survive, there is no community no building. I will never get over leaving the last town and now the place is fading so fast, crime has shot up to extremes leaving the people even more devestated who are left, outside of all the plants closing, the grief I have for the only place that felt like home as an adult, well.....Its not just bad partner and love decisions leading to this. The same lives are not happening because the same money, infrastructure, society is no longer there. Both my N parents were very successful, my N mother enjoys a lifestyle [at least she is generous with gifts on occasion] that I could NEVER dream of even if I had never been disabled.

Does that make sense?

America has gotten a lot poorer, I see others like me who saw their dreams fade into nothingness. Just one good job even may have prevented the disabilities.

I believed I tried to build lives from burnt out ashes so many times. I managed it once, to see it stripped away and now, trying again. I guess I feel tired a lot. I remember the idealism of youth and now have a very regretful middle age. What can I do? I gave up beating myself up over it. I can only try and keep moving through the next day. I almost died when I was in my 20s from physical illness and also again at 32, I probably am lucky I made it to the middle years.

Sorry you had to deal with a PD man, that is tough business. Will pray.

One thing I do question the world, and know I see through a lot of the lies, my experiences helped with that.

Perhaps that is simply called middle age, where you trade in wedding invitations and baby showers for news of funerals and chronic illness?

Yes, that is middle aged and the way things have become for me.

I know so many people with cancer, and its scary to watch healthy for years formerly vibrant and people in better shape then me in their early 40s all diagnosed with stage 4 cancers. I also see people too far away. Broken up families and everyone distant, and too many losses. Maybe that is the NORM, I am not sure.

I wish they would write a REALITY book about middle age, I don't want to read a perky book where everyone was rich to go travel and do everything they want and had loving families , like in this one book for middle aged women I read. I pitched that thing across the room.