"Generous" narcissists?

[LettingGo]

apparently some of them value their n-supply so much that they are even willing to shell out cash to get it ~zero

Zero, I'd say you understand N very well. Now to the accepting part, that is a lot harder to do, at least it was for me. It is one thing to understand about Nism, see it play out in those you love, and come to the realization that they are not who you think they are.

Ns do not see people with intrinsic value, only objects to use and abuse to their advantage. They never do things w/the purest of intentions, because they have no empathy. They are not interested in helping others, only helping themselves gain NS from others. Their Acts of good deeds are to reinforce their false identity, to keep the illusion alive, and keep us confused and hopeful that they are really good people, because they can do good things. You know that saying, Doing the Right Thing for the Wrong Reason -- that statement use to confuse me and I could never come up with a good example of that until I learned about Ns and their hidden intentions, agendas, and identities.

A person is a N for many reason, but basically it is because s/he uses people to get what s/he wants from others, admiration and/or manipulation which results in controlling others. Recently a friend of mine was sharing how her Golden Child Sis brought tons of Christmas Presents for her family (bought lots of Blue Ray Movies & the New Blue Ray Player). On the surface this appears to be very generous & thoughtful on her behalf, after all who wouldn't want and be completely ecstatic about receiving a New Blue Ray Player and a Library of Blue Ray Movies? However, she did not lift one finger to help with preparing, setting up, or cleaning up Christmas Dinner and she actually stated, "I am here to eat, not work." If she really truly cared about others, she would help out, roll up her sleeves and get her precious hands dirty, but where is the admiration in clearing the dishes or scrubbing greasy gross pots and pans? She might get an individual thank you, but the roar of the crowd is what she is after. After all, who do all the Children shout for Santa or the Elves? The Elves do all the hard work all year long and Santa gets all the glory passing out the gifts. Ns want to be Santa, placed on a pedestal and admired & worshipped by all. They truly believe they are superior to others and that everyone else is beneath them. They see themselves as Kings or Queens with subjects or objects that are born to serve them. The only thing Royal about them is the pain they cause others. Do not be fooled by their Act of Generosity, it is only a Tool of Deception in order to create Cognitive Dissonance (mental & emotional confusion) to prevent us from discovering their True Identity & Intentions and escaping their KoN.

Sometimes it is very difficult to have a conscience.   ~ yesIam

I totally understand. The only way the Momster appeared to be good was with her Act of Generosity, which was really her way of hooking her object in order to manipulate & control us into doing something that she wanted and we did not want to do. It was also her way at getting back at the one she had hurt and who confronted her on her abusive behavior. Any time the Momster was being generous to one child (directly or later through the grandchildren), she was ignoring the other child.

There is a saying, When in Roman. . .  Well, When in the KoN, might as well as take the gifts from the N, just remember that they come with very long strings attached in order to manipulate and control their puppets. Actually, ignore what I said about accepting gifts from the N (it not a good thing). Accepting Gifts creates Cognitive Dissonance.   And prevents or deters us from escaping the KoN.

[rossignolchante]

I noticed N was generous to make himself look good or control others.  To him, the best case was if he could spend a little or nothing and LOOK like he had spent a lot.

For example, he told me a story about getting a deal on pizzas, and then appearing to his friends as if he had spent a lot of money on them.  He got a great kick out of this story.  Even though he is tens of thousands of dollars in debt, to his friends and family and other "outsiders" he appears to dress expensively and drive a high end vehicle, and he perpetuates the charade by lending money and treating them.

One thing he was very vehement about was his family overseas only contacting him when they needed money.

Initially, he appeared willing to spend money on me-but I resisted it.  As we went along, he only bought gifts for my birthday or Valentines.  Although the gifts were not cheap, I had this feeling, "What does this gift have to do with me?"  He bought me things he wanted me to wear to look a certain way.  Or he treated me to an expensive dinner, which he also got to enjoy.  There was nothing special or sentimental about his gifts.  He bought me jewelry which would identify me as "taken."  He bought me an engagement ring without getting any input from me.

When he hurt me by leaving me alone at Christmas, he brought me a gift.  I couldn't bear to open it, and then I found out about his double life, so I left it behind.

[TXGal]

My N-sis only gives gifts to get herself attention or for her to take credit or for her to be able to brag to her friends and neighbors what she gave.....

5 years ago she announced to the family that with all the kids grown in all the families, that we would not exchange gifts anymore at Christmas.... so no one sent gifts... except her, she decided at the last minute to buy everyone huge wine gift baskets and have them delivered to us the week of Christmas... So we got to call her and say Thank you, and we were left feeling angry, frustrated, etc... we were blind sided, it was not fair and I heard later she told everyone how she bought our whole family gift baskets and didn't get anything in return...

What she does with her kids is she gives them things so she can take credit for it.... her son wanted to buy a house, so she "gave" him the down payment... now she says without her, he wouldn't have his house..... there's so much more, she will dive in and make car payments for her daughter, but only so she can talk all about what trash her son-in-law is and how if it weren't for her, they wouldn't have a car to drive.....

You get the idea....  you don't want her help and you don't want a gift from her. 

[SusyP14]

That piece-o-crud gift has got to be the worst. Scratched, used, with the second hand price label still on..... the worst. It is as if he was saying he could have gotten something better, but he wanted to show you what, exactly, you were worth to him.

Wow, Julia that is SPOT ON and I never thought about that way.  I was worthless to him unless I was doing for him.  Him giving me things were not in the equation.

It was one of the many, many things that he did to confuse me.  I remember thinking:  Who wants this piece of crap? But accepted it graciously as I did not know what else to do.  And I was taught to be polite about any and all gifts given to you.

Also once I gave him a book I had lying around.  Granted, I did not buy the book for him, I bought it for my mother and then found out she already had a copy.  I never got around to returning it to Amazon (I had special ordered this book in Spanish).  Anyway, since Spanish was his native language I gave it to him.  Later on he told me he sold the book to a friend for $7.  I was incredulous and thought: well give me the $7 narcboy, that was my book.  What a jerk.  He didn't even have to tell me that, I would have never know.  It is not like I took inventory of his book shelves.

One of my friends that lived with a Narc, had a super big showy house.  A mini-mansion about 6,000 square feet, in a fancy neighborhood.  Inside the N would refuse to fix anything inside that was broken.  The oven was broken, too bad, just use the range top.  The AC was broken and they live in FL and he would not fix it.  Meanwhile he had hundreds of thousands in the bank.  It was important for him to get N supply by having the 'big house' but he did not want to maintain because no one else would know about it.  One day they were having a party, and then all the issues were magically fixed before company came.

[smp]

I'd say you understand N very well. Now to the accepting part, that is a lot harder to do, at least it was for me. It is one thing to understand about Nism, see it play out in those you love, and come to the realization that they are not who you think they are.

I am struggling with the accepting of this - so much confusion - feels at times my "foundation" is shaken - I know it is him, yet wonder how in the heck I allowed it around me. I did not know about nism - truly believe people are basically good at heart. I will not allow him to take that away from me. Reflecting back after reading here, I see many instances where I "should have recognized" but I didn't,  do not want  to "second guess" myself now. Will just take time.

I am  supposed to get divorce papers to sign any day now,  I know I have the "coming to get his stuff" to look forward to. I am anxious - will have sheriffs here. Then there is the actually getting him out of the house and garage next door. i will know what to do to take care of it then- even though I prefer to HOPE it won't be too big  of a hassle.

This all still seems to be directly related to the grief process with the loss of the marriage "as I knew it." I need to, and will, walk through it - feels like the depression part of the grief so I know it is only temporary and a natural part of the process - I am also grieving the loss of my daughter - the  thought of "what ever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" keeps popping in!

I have much to be grateful for, and much to look forward to in life. 

[LettingGo]

SMP, when N comes by to get his stuff, can't he clear out the garage on the same day? My Aunt had to get the judge tell the Momster that she had to get all her stuff out of the house by the end of the weekend. Ns love to hold people hostage to their schedule and keep you waiting all day, then chancel at the very last minute just so that they know they have the power and control to manipulate your life and have you waste an entire day on them. However, the judge did not appreciate the Momster manipulating people and it back fired on her big time. The judge was trying to give the Momster the benefit of the doubt and just told her to get her stuff, but she ignored him and the judge ruled in my Aunt's favor and the Momster had a restraining order put on her for threatening my Aunt, which the judge was reluctant to do until the Momster did not respect what he said about getting all her stuff out of the house. I am wondering if you can get the judge to require that the N get his stuff out by a certain day and if not you can just give it away? Don't let the N dictate to you just when he can come by and always have another person there with you, preferably another man to prevent the N from acting out.

Our foundation is not only shaken, but is completely demolished, thus the devastation from the deception of N. Everything that we relied on that our relatioNship was based on or founded on was a complete lie. Even the good stuff is bad stuff because it was not done with the purest of intentions. It takes time to recover from that so be kind to yourself. The shame/blame belongs to the Ns for deceiving, not to their victims/targets for being deceived. The hardest transition for my mind to make was that the N was not a good person doing bad, mean and evil things, but a bad, mean, evil person doing good things. The N was not a good person acting bad, but a bad person acting good. There is a lot of Confusion due to the Cognitive Dissonance that is created from both the Intermittent Reinforcements (the good times) & Intermittent Attacks/Abuse (the bad times). If the N was always mean we could see them for the evil beings they truly are with the agenda of causing harm, but they deceive us with occasional "good days", do something nice and thoughtful, problem is their intention is to keep their victim controlled, thus they only appear to be thinking of us when they are really thinking about maintaining their deception or control over us.

It is very important to grieve the loss, because it is a loss of a relationship, no matter how deceptive or how toxic it was to us. Even the Grieving Process can be very confusing and we can beat ourselves up for grieving the Illusion of N, something that never really existed, but that too is a mind game left over from the KoN. The Deception was real, thus our grieving is justified. Resistance = Persistence and the more I resisted the grieving the more that it persisted and consumed my day and my life. When I gave myself the permission to grieve, I became liberated and free from the KoN, because I could do the one thing the Ns could not do, which was to feel & be human. There is a lot to grieve, and it is a very sad thing when we realize that the N enjoys hurting people rather than loving them and that we are really two completely different beings those who have a soul and those who lack a soul (Ns) thus our Irreconcilable Differences.

[smp]

Letting go - by the way, I just love your name here!! Constant reminder for me. We have two properties next door to each other, my home from before goofball, and the other house. Behind the other house, goofball built a huge garage (30x100ft) to store limousines and all necessary to run the business. The newer part of it is what he used to film porn when I was not home. I am getting the properties, he is getting the limousine business. He has until May 15 to relocate the business. The house next door and the original small garage is to be vacated by him by April Fool's Day (I still crack up on that one!!)

He will be allowed to come and get his stuff off the home property - where we lived - after papers are signed, I believe. This is where I found all kinds of evidence of criminal activity, porn, tax evasion, loan sharking, biker gang stuff. He will come unglued because:

1. I had the safes opened!

2. I was making copies of all papers (seven 4 drawer cabinets, and 2 two drawer cabinets, plus files in two desks) when I got tired of putting all the papers back where I got them, so I just put them into 33 gallon trash bags - he will KNOW I went through everything -

There will be at least 1 sheriff, 1 gang detective, and my nephew who is on a police force - worked gangs for many years, and is on the SWAT team!, here when he comes to get the house stuff. That will be a major hurdle.

The next hurdle will be to get him out of the house and small garage by April 1. The last battle oops, I mean  hurdle, will be everything out of the huge limousine garage May 15.

I am amazed at how strong I have been, but sometimes I just feel like crying. Just this morning, I found myself asking God "Why?"  I realized what I was doing immediately and started focusing on positives - many small projects done, laundry done, house cleaned!! I know this has nothing to do with me - but it just creeps in from time to  time - I am undoing 17.5 years of nism. There is the beginning of awareness as to what had been taking place, to saying, "acting as if" I know it is him and not me, but I think it will take getting past the grief until I will feel it in all of me.

I hope I can inform newer members of my process so they will be gentle and loving to themselves through their own process - I don't find that I am overly helpful on most posts, but I also know that anytime I read anything here it helps clear the fog or give me strength to keep moving in the right direction. Even tiny steps forward these days are so much better than where I was six months ago. I will walk through this - thanks so much for your input - sometimes I think I have made it all up!! These people are just way too out there to be real!!

[Legs]

smp,
 I think you are doing amazingly well. Just to get dressed some days is huge. Did you ever in your life imagine you could do all this???????? Give yourself a giant salute!!!!!!! Take Care. Stay strong.

legs

[smp]

Hey Legs - how the heck are you? What did you decide on school? Hopefully you are taking really good care of yourself.  - I actually spent quite some time last summer not even getting dressed!! Today I have a bathing suit on - does that count as getting dressed?

As for thinking if I could have ever done anything like this? HECK NO!! I can not imagine anyone HAVING to go through this.

[Legs]

I decided to just take one class because it is only two classroom hours a week (probably 20-30 hours a week online studying/reading according to the instructor) and it's here in town rather than having to drive out and back from BFE. It's on Operating Systems and I really don't know any of that and I need to.

Then this summer am hoping to take the other Criminal Justice classes (don't at this point even know if they're offered over the summer) and hopefully then next Fall, I can take those other two forensic classes.

This way I can stay connected and will be able to keep up with any gossip (maybe) about my fellow students. If they are even still enrolled. I don't know anything yet...but classes start tomorrow. For me, my first class will be next Monday afternoon.

Thanks for asking....I wonder if we got married the exact same time, smp? Mine was July 30, 1993. Seventeen and a half years ago. Every time you say that, I mean to ask you your anniversary date.


Legs, who hasn't worn a swim suit in almost 30 years!

[smp]

Mine was May 24!! We  are close.  I am glad for you that you downsized the class load - it really was hard for me to give up the one semester - I actually loved being in school. I even posted my education plan on my wall and highlighted the classes out as I completed them - looked really bright and cheerful!!

And I have to say - I wear a bathing suit all the time, AT HOME - don't really care what anyone thinks!! I am just an "ole hippie" - according to my kids.

[Legs]

Poor us.......almost 20 years of those nasty, nasty men. I really do spend a lot of time mourning my lost expectations. Did you have any children with that ass? Do you think he was always that heavily into porno and the internet placed it all directly at his fingertips? I am not totally anti-porn 'cos I think men are visual creatures, but I think the overwhelming perversity and grandiosity of the internet with it's ever more escalating/extreme porn made it so easily gotten and also served to make the Nasty Men think it was all perfectly ok...everyone does it.

Something to be said for keeping it under the bed in a box. When my late husband died, he had a small box of porn that appeared to have been started in the Edwardian days judging by the antique photos ...or at least the underclothing styles. Lucifer couldn't fit all his porn in the trunk of his car! And that's just the stuff he has on hand.....who knows what has passed beyond his eyes online over the last twenty years. He would have admired your HSTBXN........turning porno into a job!

Legs, eternally disgusted and beginning to thing ALL men are eternally disgusting

[Julia]

Legs, smp

I was married on June 19, 1993. I separated years before you guys did though.

 Do you remember the torrential rains/floods that spring? I was wondering if the wedding would be under water.... it should have been a heads up, LOL and obviously signified the tears to come. And then it stopped raining one week before the wedding, and I assumed that it was meant to be. Well, I am not serious, but that was a record year for flooding.

Julia

[LettingGo]

The house next door and the original small garage is to be vacated by him by April Fool's Day (I still crack up on that one!!) ~ SMP

Love that! Sometimes God just knows when we need a good laugh.

SMP keep posting, you are an inspiration to others. Everything you and Legs and the others are going through w/separating from Ns and all that you are still accomplishing in your lives in nothing less than amazing. If a very good friend was going through all the things that you are going through and are still standing and moving forward in spite of the feeling of wanting to hide under the covers, wouldn't you be proud of what your friend is accomplishing? Don't fear the tears. If you want to cry, then cry. They are your feelings and you are entitled to express them. If you are sick of crying over N, but on a good movie and have a good cry, but please don't deny Self expression.

Thanks for the compliment SMP about my screen name, these past two years have been learning about Letting Go in more ways than one.   It really Really REALLY Sucks when your entire FOO are Ns and there is no hope for a normal healthy loving relationship.

Legs I am so happy to hear that you are continuing your education and are taking a lighter load and practicing Self-Care. Even one class is a lot to undertake considering what you are currently battling w/Lucifer. Just think of what you are going to accomplish when you don't have to be distracted by the N-games. I know you will accomplish your goal exactly when you need to and not a minute too soon or too late. You are a determined Woman and that is admirable. I know you are going to help out many woman and but your knowledge to great use.

I hope I can inform newer members of my process so they will be gentle and loving to themselves through their own process ~ SMP
This is a great blessing that you give to others. It takes a long time to recover from the KoN especially for those of us who were born into it. Being gentle and loving to my Self was completely foreign to me, but I understand now that it is about Self-Care and not being Self-Absorbed like the Ns. I did not want to be anything like the Ns, so I had a problem with Self Care. Thanks to the Support of WoN and other great friends I am truly learning this very important Life Lesson not just conceptually in my mind, but deep down in my Soul.

[smp]

Julia - yeah, now that you mention it - I do remember all the floods that year - I could actually walk UNDER my fence at one point!! Interesting.

Letting go - I was not born into the world of KoN - I could not imagine having that growing up - my heart goes out to you and all others raised that way.

Leggs - I do believe Lucifer has goofball beat by a mile - but I haven't seen his whole collection!! He has three storage units in town PLUS the huge garage next door. I started to feel curious - then decided that I am better off not knowing everything. What I do know is more than enough to know I need "outta here."

I have a real odd feeling today that I need to know where he is and what he is doing so I can protect myself - not sure what is up. Any experience with that anyone??

[rossignolchante]

Hi SMP,
Yes I had a similar feeling on the weekend (apprehensive feeling) then I found out that he had been up to his tricks trying to win back OW.  If there's anything I've learned from this experience, it's trust your intuition when it's telling you to be careful.

[Legs]

I have a real odd feeling today that I need to know where he is and what he is doing so I can protect myself - not sure what is up. Any experience with that anyone??

Narcissist Induced Paranoia. We (or me anyway) was so utterly shocked to discover exactly WHAT was sleeping next to me for all those years, that I began to obsess over what ELSE I had missed. Oh, and plus Lucifer informed me (in his Vastly Superior voice) that he knew at least five different ways to kill someone that no pathologist would ever be able to find. Or even think to look for.

LG, thanks for not making me feel "less than" for not taking the other half of my forensic classes this semester. Not that I could because of what my doc said, but today one of the people in that class called me to ask me if I wasn't going to come back. And she said "The classes won't be any fun without you".......well, too bad, I guess. But that does tell me that I am still trotting out that same old tired Dog and Pony Show where I have an overwhelming need to amuse the masses. WHY do I *do* that? Is it like a dog licking it's you-know-whats????



Legs, who wonders if humor is a defense, an introduction or just because I can???

[smp]

Legs - Personally with the sense of humor I have, I have often said I must have been a really cheesy vaudeville performer in a past life!! I know it is just a part of me - I am good at controlling it in the classroom, it would just go over the heads of sixth graders!!

[LettingGo]

Thank you SMP for your kind words. I definitely experienced hell on Earth or at least the closest thing I ever want to get to it. It is a nightmare to be married to a N and it is another type of nightmare being raised by one. Both are horrible. What breaks my heart is when people believe that they have no choice in leaving the N, that they can not divorce the Nspouse or the Nparent. Usually this has to do with one's belief system, but how can we achieve a fullness of Life or the Abundant Life when we are being used and abused by a N? When I understood just how much God loves each one of us, and that I am His Child and He loves me even more than I love my DD who I would keep from all harm and protect w/my very life, then I realized that we are to have nothing to do with toxic evil Ns we don't have to continue to be their friends, girlfriends, wives, siblings, or even their children and we never really were because a N only sees an object to use and abuse not and individual person w/intrinsic value to love, respect and appreciate.

Legs, why is it that we can be great friends to others, offer compassion and understanding, yet at times are our own worst enemy, and think less of ourselves for doing less. Our own perspective for Self is so off at times, at least mine can be,  If a friend had to cut back on classes or make other changes in her life we would have empathy for her, and we would praise her for taking on a lot considering all she is going through, yet for our self we punish ourself by denying Self the same empathy & compassion would we would give to others. We expect so much more than we do from others. I am truly impressed that you are actually attending class and doing your assignments while battling Lucifer. You are truly a Warrior Woman who inspires others by Battling Lucifer at the same time Battling the forensic classes, wow you have such amazing mental energy. And of course they miss your humor in class. Your humor is a gift, a blessing, not a curse. It does not prevent you from connecting with others. You care about others and that comes across loud and clear to me in your posts. We all have a different way of expressing ourselves, and I enjoy yours. It is important to laugh especially when we are dealing with Ns, so thank you for adding your humor to WoN.