"Snot is Running Down His Nose" XNH Behavior

[NewWings4MeNow]

OK, so the title is crude.  It's an "Aqualung" lyric from the 70s.  

I read recently about behaviors depicting love v. hate v. indifference, and want to readdress XNH's behavior toward me and d these past couple of months when he's blown snot out of his nose in front of us.

Specifically the time in December after child exchange when d and I sat at a sidewalk cafe having gelato and XNH walked right by us, didn't look at or address either of us, and blew it out of his nose right next to us and kept walking.  I've written this before and some of you reacted appropriately.

But today I'd like to ask you specifically what you think it meant in terms of XNH's emotions, messages, motivations -- anger, rage, resentment, revenge, thoughtlessness, accidental, innocent?  I'm zeroing in on this because it was so disgusting and he hadn't done anything like this these past seven years (though he did it repeatedly while we were married, not necessarily in public places, and I'd told him repeatedly how much I didn't like it and he'd just say, "I can't breathe" though he sounded just fine).

My view is that XNH could have picked any other place to do it in a big outdoor shopping center, and that he did it totally on purpose because he was walking by us and he was sending a message of anything BUT indifference.

Please, I'd appreciate your interpretations, as his actions indicate his entire attitude toward me and d impacting his behaviors in a custody fight ahead.

Thanks.

All these comments still beg the question though, love v. hate v. indifference?  XNH's actions certainly aren't indifferent.

NewWings4MeNow

[Proud2B]

NewWings,
Blowing snot out of ones nose in front of others, or in public, is an act of contempt, and/or disrespect, and/or extremely rude/self-centered behavior, regardless of whether he's your exN, exH, or a complete stranger.

With that said, there are times when snot rockets are appropriate and 'normal' - like during marathons and other sporting events where tissue is unavailable and generally a handicap.  Having never done that myself (blow a s.r.), maybe I don't know how bad it can get, but still......

Are you certain he saw you and daughter sitting there?  At the very best, it's rude behavior.  Did I mention "ill mannered"?   

Regards,
Proud2B

[Julia]

Proud, I am quite sure he saw them.

As I recall, they had just made a custody switch from XNH to Wings near the Starbucks, per usual, and Wings and d decided to stop for a treat and coffee. So he was on his way back to his car, or to do some window shopping at the mall before heading home, or whatever. And Blow.

Wings, to me this is a discard (as in D and D) action. As if there was anything left to discard. Well public decency.  Yes, disrespectful and crude, and yes, he does remember that you hate him doing that on a public sidewalk.

So he was also thinking  "See, you can't make me do anything". What is interesting is that he would let d see it.  So the message may have been for you both, and he may perceive that d is "on your side". And since it happened right at a custody exchange.... well then the message is "You can't get  custody changed to more time with Wings".

I generally do not like getting in your XNs head Wings, as you know. But this seems important for you, so here are a couple more questions for clarification. Did he turn his head away from you or was it towards you? Was d looking up, and did he clearly know that she would see it, or was she looking down or away?

Julia


And, btw, I always thought that certain runners made a little too much of the snot rockets. Certainly it is not necessary to blow one near a drink station, or near other runners, etc.

[NewWings4MeNow]

Shows how little I know:  Had never even heard the phrase that refers to this act ....

Yes Julia, you're right.  XNH had just dropped d off to me, we'd gone into Starbucks and then gotten gelato and were the only people seated at several tables on a sidewalk 10' wide, so it was maybe five minutes after the exchange and he'd seen us go into the stores.  XNH was directly across from us when he did it, and had to walk right toward us to pass us.

I don't know if d saw him as she was eating but we were both facing out/toward the street, XNH was the only person walking along and I specifically kept my mouth shut at that moment, watching d and being amazed that neither greeted or acknowledged the other.  And to the detail of the direction of his body or his act, I think it was toward the street but don't really recall, mostly that it was just out.  I assume that d saw him, but also that she's likely seen him do it elsewhere when they've been together as he even did it while they got out of his car walking in a parking lot toward her doctor's check-up in early winter when they were arriving to meet me.  Or maybe it's his calling card for dealing with me in person ....

Do get the "You can't make me do anything," "FU" and "I sh*te on you" d&d messages, and also that it's toward both of us and the strength of our R.  Active disdain instead of just keeping away.

I can't imagine my own (abusive) father behaving in such a way around people he knows; I can imagine him expecting XNH to do exactly this type of thing as the very worst intentional behavior he can possibly show me.

With this level of rage beneath the surface expressed so flagrantly, I still wouldn't put anything past XNH in the future.

NewWings4MeNow

[RB22]

With this level of rage beneath the surface expressed so flagrantly, I still wouldn't put anything past XNH in the future.

NewWings,

I think you have your answer.

[TXGal]

My first reaction is He was putting on a show for you and your D.   yes, it's all to get him attention.... you say he's done this in the past so he knows it is grose and he knows people do not like it and will notice... he also knows that you do not appreciate this type of grose behavior, so he's letting you and everyone else in the civilized world know "I don't have to conform to society, I can do grose things and no one can stop me".....

Only good will come of this!  He is making himself look more and more unstable to his daughter.  I am sure she sat there thinking, OMG, I am so glad no one knows I'm related to him, I am so glad I am not walking with him when he did that.... This is one of those moments that he can't remove from her memory.  She will carry this her whole life as an example of how her father is...

For you, this is a WIN.  As the more he acts out and shocks your D, the less you have to explain why you can't be married to him anymore.  

There will come a time when she will not want him around because she does not want him to embarrass her... here's her father doing these things just because her Mom is there.... like her wedding day, when she might wonder, what will he do on my wedding day to grose everyone out and make everyone remember him and talk about him?  

Last -- take yourself out of it and think about anyone else on the street thinking, Boy, I'm so glad he isn't my husband !  and you should laugh and laugh!  Every time he is grose, you laugh, because he's acting the fool, the half wit, in public, putting on a show for you, but no one knows it... no one knows he's acting so odd because you are there, they just see some idiot walking and blowing snot out his nose....

And if he is doing this for you or because of you --- he is giving you a great deal of power over his actions.  If all of this is for your benefit, to grose you out, what a joke - you were grosed out long ago -- but he's given you, a nice lady eating lunch in a cafe, the power to make him walk around blowing snot out his nose and making a fool of himself.  

[NewWings4MeNow]

TXGal,

       

You're so right.  I hadn't looked at it that way, but it makes so much sense.  Can picture me and XNH as a toy:  I look at him and he blows snot.  Reverse puppeteering ...?!?

Also, thanks for reminding me about the Grossed Out and Embarrassed Teen Factor.

My concern is that d doesn't seem to find anything shocking and, growing up here, wouldn't understand well mannered societal norms to realize that she should be grossed out.  However, if *****I***** did such a thing with her, she'd burn the memory of it into her brain for all eternity.  This is my concern:  That d's taught standard of men is that they ARE gross, they CAN BE gross, they can GET AWAY WITH being gross and nobody does anything about it ... in effect, the It is Still a Man's World message (which, realistically, she has to learn).  

I also hadn't thought about the general societal impact as you say -- the other folks looking at him wondering about his upbringing, his background, who would be married to such a person ....  This reminds me starkly of the night in our former town when d went to cotillion all dressed up for dance class.  The parents gathered in scores to watch the kids and the posted attire for everybody was "evening cocktail".  In the midst of the event XNH walked in wearing a cycling outfit, dripping sweat from head to toe after a long distance ride with his bike parked outside; he walked through the crowd and across the room to the opposite side to stand with "special male friend".  Nobody approached him, asked him to leave, told him his attire was inappropriate.  So yes, you're again spot-on with this observation:  That he flaunts his oppositional behavior to anything like the civilized world to which I was connected, which was a world in which he wasn't raised as a child of intellectual, pseudo-hippie, self-medicating types in Marin County, who occasionally dressed up and showed up in society but were never part of it at all.

TX, your message is a bright spot in my day, reminding me that I'm viewing the actions of a fool.

Thank you,

NewWings4MeNow

[TXGal]

Hey , I'm so glad I could cheer you up.... 

My Nsis -  I would never let on that I was related to her in jr and high school. 

As adults if we were shopping and she'd start in with a store clerk, I would just walk away, like "I am not with her" !!   Once I went and started trying on shoes !!  and later I'd told my brother, how in 1 split second she got angry and started in on a clerk and I walked away... and we'd both got to laughing!  What else can we do?  It's so odd, that perfect strangers would stare!   

[MakeItStop]

Hi NewWings,

If this were my NH blowing snot under the circumstances you describe, I would interpret it the following way:

1.  "Look at me."  My NH seems to enjoy any type of attention, even for things that us "normal folks" would regard as repulsive.

2.  "The rules don't apply to me/I can get away with anything I want and there will be no repercussions."  Also classic NPD-thought, as you well know.

3. "This is what I think of you, especially when you're spending time with d."  If he could have literally taken a crap on you, he probably would have.  This was probably an impulsive and unplanned manifestation of his animosity and general contempt, and on one level at least, it seems like it worked in that it has upset you.  But I agree with others who have already posted that you should regard this as a "win," since it just shows what a cretin he is and how glad you should be to be rid of him.  He may have even regretted it instantly afterward since it really was a childish and stupid-looking stunt, and they are all about "public perceptions."  But just like the tantrums and lies and the rest of the stuff they spew, snot cannot be "taken back" and is there for all to see.  Take heart in the possibility that on at least some level his acting out may have caused him shame.  Also, your failure to respond to him probably hurt him far more than anything you could have said would have.  Simply ignoring him is not only best for you in that it shows your d how to respond maturely, it also is a great way to mess with his mind, and he deserves lots of mind-messing for what he has done to you.

Just the 2 cents of a newbie, but I feel for ya. 

[NewWings4MeNow]

 

Hi MIS,

Yes, attention, as infantile as it seems.  Yes, No Rules.  As I've written XNH many times in the past, where would he be if he didn't have me to pile his bile/crap onto?  If XNH were a cartoon, actually, in reverse the snot could be "taken back" -- I'm picturing it and am not sure which is funnier.

Cretin.    In silk double-breasted suits.

I don't think XNH feels shame.  It's an emotion I never saw in him, on his face, in his words or actions all the years I knew him.  I also don't think he feels regret and, if he were asked about the act today, he'd say (1) he didn't do it, and/or (2) he never noticed that d and I were sitting there.

It's almost like when XNH sees me he feels compelled to empty his system, to "eject the core" as it were, to discharge/purge (me -- or his historical feelings for me, or the rage that wells up in him at those times) from himself and that somehow that gives him some kind of relief -- not unlike his nasty, aggressive e-mails to me at 11:30P used to do before I stopped reading/replying to them.  (Those I noticed at the time also because his consistent bedtime was always 10:30P, or at least at that hour one would think he'd have been with his w.)

Would like to acknowledge that his behavior upset me; however, what it did moreso was to clarify things for me because it was so stunning and unexpected.

Thanks for your very insightful comments.  All two cents welcome, newbies and old-timers.  I agree with your note about "impulsive and unplanned manifestation of animosity".  

Just more reasons to keep physically away from him at all times.

And perhaps this is now four years coming, but I'm sayin' it here first:  

If XNH did haul off and slug me or in any way physically come after me, I would no longer be afraid of him.
Now I'd channel my inner Ziva, my inner Abby.  And THAT's a serious win.

Thanks again,

NewWings4MeNow

[Litha]

NewWings, I've never seen anyone do that, and I grew up on a farm with 4 brothers. I cannot imagine a civilized human being behaving like that in public. Primitive tribal people maybe, a mentally challenged homeless person maybe, but not an educated adult in a public place.

Here's the thing with Ns though: he knows it bothers you so he made a point of doing it in front of you. If you said that you feel strongly that adolescent girls should not color or perm their hair he would bring DD home with a pink 'fro. Heck, if you had mentioned that you dislike the little yarmulkes Jewish men wear he would convert so he could wear one just to annoy you. It's just part of the weirdNess that is them.

I know you've spoken about New England, is your d planning to attend college there? I think that would go a long way toward providing her with a more balanced perspective.

[NewWings4MeNow]

Litha,

Thanks for that observation; if you're saying that XNH's behavior is even lower than bovines, I agree.  "Animal House", "adolescent" as my father said so often.  As I did years ago, if I asked male colleagues, even men-on-the-street, to comment on such behavior, they'd be disgusted, call him a pig and a psycho and tell me to stay away from such a jerk.  

Yes, it's very much because he thinks it still bothers me.  The act itself doesn't, since he's the one doing it, not me and thank goodness we're no longer connected.  What concerns me is the fact that d is exposed every day to the underlying reasoning and motivation of it -- in essence, what Lundy Bancroft describes so completely as the mindset of an abusive man toward women.  

XNH told me that he wore a colored mohawk and black leathers to his prom.  Relative to his freckles and red-brown wavy hair, that other look was his alter-ego persona and I NEVER saw a single photo of him from that time in his parents' home.  There have been a whopping lot of things he could have done with d before now to really pi$$ me off, but I think I started working with her at such a young age that she hasn't been so susceptible to those oddball social idiosyncracies of his counter-culture lifestyle.  And BTW, he's (culturally) Jewish already ....  

XNH's actions and life choices that have nothing to do with me don't annoy me any more.  I'm keeping my eye on the prize:  To get away and live a life completely independent of him with no encounters and no further contact.

New England is where d was born and was where we lived before coming to this area.  It's where I took her for New Years holiday with old friends a year ago when she was able to visit Harvard and MIT.  She'll be starting 9th grade in the fall and would like to go to Harvard or Oxford and study English lit, write/teach, be a video/game designer and rescue animals.  That's her top trio of passions right now.  XNH's family, of course, already started telling d at 7 (?) that she "is going" to Berkeley ....  I showed her the list of US News & World Report's Top 100 US High Schools and the fact that her proposed local public school isn't even on it, and we talked about local folks' comments that it's such a great school because it's the best in the area, though the county is low within the state and the state is abysmal within the nation:  Big fish, small pond.

It's that balanced perspective that's part of the whole reason for getting d out of Southern California, and away from XNH for a while.  And the social/moral problem is that XNH doesn't value that balanced perspective at all; though he went to a pretty good Eastern school, it was hard-over liberal (not necessarily a bad thing, just a mindset comment) and he blossomed as a prankster while there.  Fitting in to any kind of society (except work), he doesn't care about.

Thanks,

NewWings4MeNow

[LettingGo]

WoW NW you just discovered a New Red Flag that you should update the Thread on How to Discover NVamps,
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,6883.0.html

People have done that same vary thing to me and is always extremely grossed me out, so much so that I felt wounded, especially by those repeat offenders and now I know why -- they were soulless Ns. In fact I hypothesis, the closer in proximity to you that they blow their nose, the greater their pathology. Seriously, most people excuse themselves. I use to right that act off as having bad manners, but it is much more than that isn't? They lack empathy, they are Ns. You just gave me a flashback to when the Momster would do that same thing and even pick her nose in front of us. If we copied her and blew our nose in front of her, after all we are her children learning from her, well she would rage, so much so that you would thing we just killed her favorite pet poodle. After she raged on us, then she would do the same same thing blow her snot out right at the dinner table when we sat only a foot or so way from her. If we called her on it well you all know what happens when you call an N on something, especially when you mirror back how they are a hypocrite.

But today I'd like to ask you specifically what you think it meant in terms of XNH's emotions, messages, motivations -- anger, rage, resentment, revenge, thoughtlessness, accidental, innocent?

I would say, lack of empathy, followed by contempt because you and DD are the Broken Mirror and the Defected Mirror, respectively.

I just added this post to by Blog tonight, Click on the Link below, and leave a Comment I would love to hear your take on it. I am just putting all the pieces together, let me know if this makes sense to ya.
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2011/01/golden-child-gets-golden-crown.html

[NewWings4MeNow]

Letting,

XNH was big on picking his nose while driving and I sat right next to him.  He NEVER made a move to use a napkin, a tissue, nothing, and he'd make great big gyrations like his finger was a frontloader.  It didn't phase him in the least that I was right next to him and he never apologized.  He's the only person I've ever known who has done this in my presence.

Just as you described.

It is a violation of decency and respect, though I fully recognize that in intimate company all kinds of personal care emergencies come up and we handle them with empathy and compassion and apologies.  You've witnessed this from multiple people?!?

I think what you've described that your Momster would do in front of children and as a revenge tactic is just plain sick.

Glad you think this is a new Red Flag, especially when a slight behavior change is requested and it's simply ignored and denied over and over again.

NewWings4MeNow

[LettingGo]

Yes a complete Violation of Decency and Respect!

 You've witnessed this from multiple people?!? ~NW

Yes, unfortunately, just goes to show me that I was a great N target. You just gave me another flashback w/that question. Just don't tell DD, but I was not a Virgin when I got married. The Second N I dated, I guess I would call him Prince Alarming, because he was not Harming and as you read he was definitely not Prince Charming. Almost every time we would take a shower together he would hold one side of his nose with his finger and blow a HUGE Mucus Snot down onto the Shower Floor and I would have to literarily side step to avoid his Gross Gift.

Most definitely this is a Huge Red Flag, the above mentioned Gross Gifts from Prince Alarming were traumatic to me, although I never have identified it as such until this very minute. The Mucus Memories haunted me for years even after I had finally found my real Prince Charming aka The Last Musketeer (there are still some available ones out there Ladies  )

No  surprise the sexual desire for Prince Alarming quickly decreased. I don't know if this would be considered Covert or Ambient Abuse? Funny thing now both Covert and Ambient Abuse is very Overt and Obvious although at the time we just don't see it. He is the one I talked about before who didn't call me for two Months, meanwhile I was too busy w/College and The Last Musketeer entered my life, we became great friends, he pursed me, I resisted because tech. I had not broken up w/Prince Alarming and I was not interested in a romantic R, but my best friend WoN me over, he gave me a Promise Ring, we dated for 3 years, then we moved in together Lived in Sin    SHHHH again don't tell DD     then during my Masters, we were in Hawaii and He surprised me by designing me a card which happened to be our 6th Anniversary of being together and on the front of the Card it said, You are invited to. . . .  and on the inside it said Your Wedding. He arranged everything except the fine detail, like what we were going to wear (he thought Hawaii print Shirts) -- very much his style but not mine, especially for my wedding day. We had 3 days to find rings, get cake, our license, Wedding Cloths, Videographer, garter, something old, new, borrowed, blue, and his best guy friend who was his bestman came out to take the pics, a local woman gave me a flower Haku lei and I also wore a white orchid lei and my DH wore a traditional green maili lei around his neck & draped over his shoulders
http://www.hawaiiflowerlei.com/section.aspx?pid=wedding

[NewWings4MeNow]

Letting,

XNH did it in the shower too.

I think I'm all mucused out ....

NewWings4MeNow

[LettingGo]

Gosh they have the same gross traits.
They really are born from the same evil Pod, same MO. Other than the hideous Shower Scenes Prince Alarming would be considered a lower level. Never did anything overtly or covertly abusive, but definitely ambient (I love that you fine ladies taught me that term and concept!), where you don't identify it as abuse, but it demeans and devalues and you write it off as bad manners. But there were things about him that were N, I just had a hard time identifying them because I was grew up w/the Super-Sized one and every N I agreed to date was "not that bad". Still, Not that Bad is still not any Good! 

[Litha]

Thanks for that observation; if you're saying that XNH's behavior is even lower than bovines, I agree.

I was referring more to the fact that I didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. My family was Midwest working-class, and I've been surrounded by earthy outdoorsy types all my life, but in all my 53 years I have NEVER seen anyone do this. Even while camping in the wilderness. One of my exNs was a marathon runner and I never saw HIM do it either.

Not only is it disgusting, but when the WHO (World Health Organization) is wringing its hands over AIDS and possible flu pandemics it seems almost criminal to be broadcasting your germ-ridden body fluids.

[NewWings4MeNow]

Litha,

I gotcha. 

My take today on it is that it's a physical representation/extension of arrogant/snotty behavior (which I've noticed in d these last six months and used that word to describe it).

Thanks for your reality check.  I needed it.

I'd also been around other runners and never saw them do it in mixed/polite company.  Apparently XNH still thinks that I'm lower than the dirt/"in the gutter" as he wanted.  Mysogyny.  I'd almost guarantee that he doesn't do that around anybody else, except NW; I never saw him do it in anyone else's company (or, perhaps, maybe his family? and they let him get away with it?  Doesn't matter.).

It occurred to me yesterday that if XNH pulled that stunt in Singapore, he'd be jailed. 

"Germ-ridden" is a good descriptor.  For Ns.

NewWings4MeNow

[Flower]

OMG!....((Newwings))

I've used the analogy of Aqualung when describing Ns who do not fit the description in "Aqualung."  Boy, does that song bring back memories of the 70s.

A mental health doctor once said to me that, "Negative attention is better than no attention."  Think about how Ns want attention, along with
"No boundaries." 
If he can't get attention doing something positive, he's going to do something negative. And in many instances, for the disordered mind, doing something
negative is much easier for them to do.  The "No boundaries" part of it is that with some disordered minds, like narcissists, they do not have the values and internal
brakes that prevents them from unacceptable behavior. Of course, with their nearest and dearest, those "internal brakes" are very lax, but being in
public, they do know it is unacceptable and will muster up the will power not to do it. Image is everything to these characters.

Yes, it is gross. But for their disordered minds that is not the point. They do not consider or care about certain social norms or values as most people do.  Am I making
sense or am I just rambling? In other words, what we would normally whince at, get disgusted about or shock us, a pathological narcissist would either have no
reaction, laugh at or become stimulated.  I've gone tons of examples if anyone cares to read about it, LOL!

Just when I throught I head and read it all......I learn something new everyday.

Hugs, Flower

[NewWings4MeNow]

Flower,

Thanks for posting the album cover.  Brings back a lot of memories ....

And yes, negative attention is the point.  XNH's been doing this ever since we split.

NewWings4MeNow

[TXGal]

I'm with Litha... I am 52 and from Texas and even with temps over 100 for 2 months of the year, I have never seen anyone blow their nose using their hand... never !  I now count this as another blessing in my life, as I hope to never see it !

[honeybearII]

Wings, my take?  He did it because it needed doing, LOL.

Ns seem to have little or no social restraints in certain circumstances.  Whether or not he intentionally did it in front of you and D is, to me, beside the point.  This is not about you, per se, but about his self-involvement that he could even remotely believe that this is acceptable social behavior.  Same with entering a formal affair dripping sweat and dressed in a cycling outfit (which, to my mind, are one of the grossest costumes for men ever conceived.  EEE-YUK!!.  All that spandex on a man?  GROSS to the MAX!!).  Anyway, he is so self-involved that he just does what he wants to and social mores don't even enter his head.  This is also the reason that Ns flout conventions and believe that No Trespassing laws are for everyone but them.  Same with any other kind of societal restrictions.  They are only for the Little People and an N is NEVER a Little People in their own minds.

I just don't think you need to spend any more time trying to psych this out.  He is rude, gross, and disgusting.  Next issue???
Honey

[LettingGo]

Litha, you bring up a very good point. I was worried for years that I had gotten the AID virus from one of the jerks I dated because I heard how it could lay dormant for years and I was worried for years after me and DH started dating and were with only each other that I a previous jerk gave me a disease and they I would give it to him, or if I did break out with one after along time, could I be sure I got it from a past relationship or that DH had cheated on me and gave it to me, and he of course said how would I know that you didn't cheat on me. The stress of sex is not worth it when you have more than one sexual relationship. What we went through, I do know why God says to do things a certain way, it is not for His benefit, but for ours. Everyone one of those sexual relationships which was only a couple before I met my DH was not worth the stress they left behind, even if the chance was very slim, it was not 100% and for a person who actually knows about stats, the stats does not matter if you have a 5% or 1% probability of the protection not working when you are that 1 person who gets a life long disease. It was scary when I would hear about how friends were getting pregnant and diseases, and a friend of mine had not one but two abortions during our Masters program. All the risk in not worth the temporary reward. I do not have any fond memories that are more important than my DH. Most definitely if I knew then what I know now I would have stayed a virgin until our wedding night. DH stayed a virgin until we were Promised. We are definitely raising our DD to value herself and not to be searching for love through sexual relationships like I did, because let's be honest how many of those sexual relationships do you not regret? I do not judge people who choose to make different choice about their life, and I will not think anything less of my DD if she does not heed my along w/many other's warnings that sex before marriage is just not worth it and you will live to regret it. I would not think any less of my DD if she did not listen and decide not to wait until she was married, and sure marriage is no guarantee that she can not get a terrible STD especially with those deceptive Counterfeits, but statistically speaking the odds are in her favor if she waits.

[NewWings4MeNow]

Honey,

"because it needed doing" --    Thanks for being practical.

Yes, you're right to connect the two behaviors and remind me about self-involvement and flouting social mores.  This fundamental cultural opposite between us is something I addressed long ago.

By asking this question initially, I was trying to get at lingering love-hate feelings v. indifference, as it just seems like a lotta years away now for him to still be pulling these stunts.  Given that d has told him she wants to live with me, this regression makes sense for him to need to reinforce that he's not the Little People and that, no matter what I try to influence/change/control, he still has control over his own snot:  Nah nah-nah nah nah, nah!

Next ....

NewWings4MeNow