How did you initially cope with the Ns cheating?

[victimnomore]

I have a question for the wives who have endured the pain of infidelity.  When you first found out about your NHs OW, how did you find out, were there signs that you noticed that had you suspecting something was not right before it actually came out?  And, how did you cope with it, especially during what I imagine was the worst of it, right after finding out?  I have a keen interest in the subject as "my N," that I had begun to try to leave but had been too weak to leave, now has a new OW and, despite myself, I find myself in pain.  Of course I KNEW that once the handwriting was on the wall, that N knew he'd lost some control of me, he would be looking for that all important NS.  It seems that only having his wife is not even an option in his mind.  He seems to fit the "midlife crisis N" profile to a tee.  As bad as I am feeling, and I SHOULD be elated since it makes going NC almost a non-issue really.  N will be too busy with the new OW to even notice my absence in his life.  I know how he was when we were first "in love" and, though I had thought that was special at that time, I now know enough to know better.  So, he will be COMPLETELY obsessed with his new "soulmate" for the entire entrapment/wooing phase.  It does make my life easier and I did know that I needed him out of my life.  So why am I up in the middle of the night, feeling like maybe I was wrong, feeling like maybe it was my moves to leave him that sent him into the arms of another woman, that, if I had only tried harder and loved him more, as he had begged, then I would have been able to prevent this, heal him and be his one and only true love.  Irrational, yes, absolutely, but nothing about this messed up affair has been rational, or has even felt like something I would do.  I DON'T DO ADULTERY!  That isn't who I am.  So then comes the question that is most likely behind the feelings of generalized terror that I am feeling: if it isn't who I am, then WHO AM I?  I think I lost my sense of self somewhere along the way and now I have someone else in my head.  Because whether I am actually with him or not, he is always there.  I was already in N Hell, actually in a limbo state, maybe like purgatory, now I am alone.  Yes, I knew that I would need to leave, but somehow I had expected it was going to be my decision.  Why did I think that?  What had given me that idea when EVERYTHING else in our R had been controlled by him?  What a sucker I've been, what a fool.  I actually loved him more and gave more of myself to him than I had ever given to anyone.  I'm ordering the book, Stalking the Soul.  Anyone have any other book recommendations?  Anyone want to share their thoughts, experiences?  Advice for getting through the worst of the pain/terror/emptiness would be so appreciated.  Thank you to all here who have helped me so much already.  This forum is a blessing.       

[Paula]

Victumnomore,
My all time favorite book on the subject is, Why Does He Do That?, by Lundy Bancroft. I really gets inside the mind of the abusive man and explains their thinking. It is very helpful with detaching. It is so full of insight, you will be amazed by that book. Sandra Brown's, How To Spot A Dangerous Man, is good too. If you read the first book it will explain to you why no matter what you would have done with N, no matter how long or hard you would have tried you would have been doomed, and new OW is going to get her turn as well.

Try not to beat yourself up too much. You were looking for mutuality and N was not. He is looking for someone he can control and manipulate. Normal people can grow and change but with an N or P they can not. The thinking is much more rigid and calcified. They do not accept any responsibility. The N you have been with has undoubtedly been through this very same cycle many times. The fact that he is moving on now to yet another OW should tell you that. Wife is damaged no doubt. What happens to wife is that all N's demons are cast on her in order to justify the new love. These men are fragmented beings. Wife serves the function of being a garbage dumpster,- no wonder that it is so hard to leave. Try not to think that you caused any of his behavior because you did not. He was damaged before you met him. He has a version of "ideal woman" in his mind that no one will ever live up to. He projects that on to the new woman and it only lasts for so long untill he discovers a flaw or she has a normal need of her own.

When a man is having an affair there are a lot of signals. If you google you can find losts of lists of what to look for.,-better grooming, cleanning car. different music choices, ,coldness, lack of interest in family.  more time spent away from home, etc. Alarm bells went off for me this last time when he all out quit touching me and stopped wearing underwear. It is like his really dark side took over and he is this person I hardly recognize.
Hope that heklps some.  One thing that is helpful is to call your power back and feel it coming back into your body.
Paula

[honeybearII]

Victim, throughout my marriage I had a lot of red flags, a lot of intuition, that he was cheating on me not once, but multiple times.  It took 32 YEARS for him to finally get so deeply into a midlife "whatever" that he became blatant about what he was doing and messed up.  Part of the issue is that we don't want to believe that they could actually do this to us.  With me, also, I believed completely that he was who he pretended to be - the warm, funny, likable church musician who claimed to be so ethical and moral.  Even when it was pretty obvious to me that SOMETHING was going on over the years, he was incredibly good at covering up, blaming my jealousy, firmly standing on his contention that these women were just "good buddies".  I bought it all.

Do I feel stupid now?  Well, I did for a long time, but then I realized that he was an amazingly good liar and manipulator.  I was also a trusting, naive person who felt comfortable in our church lifestyle and didn't question much of what he did even though the red flags were waving away.  So I don't beat myself up any longer about my refusal to see what was going on.  That denial allowed me to raise my 3 children in an intact family and to pretty much just put all the crap out of my mind and get on with living.  Not that I don't have HUGE regrets that I stayed with him so long, because once I got over the obsession about keeping the marriage together, trying to do everything possible to get him to change, I moved on and made a new and much happier life for myself.

I cannot begin to tell you the FREEDOM that comes from living a life where you are not always wondering where they are, what they are doing, who they are with.  Those questions were always in the back of my mind for all those years, even when I tried to stomp them down into my subconscious.  They arose waaay too many times throughout those years and made me miserable, depressed, doubtful of my ability to be a good wife. 

I know now it was NEVER about me.  I know this because even after I left and he had his beautiful, younger mistress ready to marry him he cheated on her, too, until she finally broke it off with him.  The flaw is in HIM......not us.  We are lovable, good, loving women who ended up making a life with a man who cannot really love anyone and who believes that everyone exists purely to make THEIR life wonderful.  When we don't meet that impossible standard - for whatever whacky reason they decide we are no longer relevant to them - then they simply discard us and move on.  Not, however, before they dump all their guilt, anger, unhappiness in our laps and blame us for all of it.  That is the Narcissistic Way.
Honey

[victimnomore]

Paula, thank you.  That is so helpful, and means even more coming from someone who has experienced this from the other side of the equation.  I'm once again having heart palpitations at night (I had somewhat similar crazy heart fluttering when our affair first began), feel like I was run over by a truck when I get up (there's no waking up because I did not sleep) in the morning.  I've never experienced anything like this but I guess that is how you know they are coming into or sneaking out of your life.  At this point, I guess I should just be thankful that he found someone new, so I won't have much to deal with during NC.  But this R has never been about how I SHOULD do anything.  I feel what I feel, whether it makes any sense or not and what I'm feeling now is an intensely powerful feeling of total abandonment/rejection/helplessness and so much shame.  Wouldn't N just love that? 

I will add those other 2 books to my order.  Thanks!  Knowledge is power and I know they will help me to process and heal.   

Btw, I could actually tell he had another OW when he started using different language in chat.  That is how well I know him, how much he had been mirroring me and my language, and how much he takes on from the source of supply.  He is NO ONE.  He has no likes or dislikes of his own, a completely blank slate.  He is a chameleon, easily becoming whatever your heart desires as there is nothing of him that he will have to give up.  It makes for the "perfect" man and also makes for someone who cannot be trusted, and who cannot form lasting bonds with anyone.  He changed quickly and it was as soon as he imagined some kind of slight.  He imagined that I had distanced myself.  (He was impossibly, desperately clingy and smothering, which I actually didn't mind because I wanted so much to heal him, to help him feel whole.  It was a task I was not up to.  I know that no one can help him and that no one can give him the love he needs because he can't feel their love and I am now trying my best not to feel sorry for him, at the same time I am disgusted by this person who commits serial adultery.  His poor wife really needs to get out of that situation but my guess is that you're right, she's damaged and unable to leave.  The more I learn about him, the more I think about what he has done to her, the more I really begin to hate him.  Maybe that's a good thing.

[victimnomore]

Honey, what you describe sounds very similar to what his wife no doubt experienced.  I am now sure that I was not his first affair, although he always claimed I was.  No, I was simply the first affair that he was bold enough about to mess up (accidentally on purpose telling his wife) and I am sure the timing (right after their son left for college) had a LOT to do with it, not how special I was to him.  I see by the fact that he already has another OW just how very special my love was to him, the love that he professed was irreplaceable, True Love, his "soulmate," the closest he had ever felt to another person ever, part of him, etc. blah, blah, blah.  All garbage.  And though I can't help feeling hurt, I don't envy the new OW at all.  I know what lies ahead for her.  Unfortunately the one in this scenario that always seems to emerge perfectly unscathed, leaving a wake of destruction, is N.  (And yes, he does blame anyone and everyone except for himself for everything.  His projection is unreal.)

Thank you so much for sharing.  Talking through it, knowing there are others out there that have gone through this madness, and have gone on with their lives, happier, helps so much.

[victimnomore]

Paula, I was just reading JennyWren's thread and the discussion re: OWs.  As one of them, I can tell you that they will probably all look impulsive to the point of possible mental illness as the Ns come on strong to the OW.  It is the strongest, most obsessive kind of "love" you can imagine feeling.  It was by far stronger than anything I had ever felt and led me to take actions that I NEVER would have considered in any other circumstance.  That is not an excuse, but it is an explanation.  A really bad drug addiction might be a fair comparison.  (Btw, I am a sober recovering alcoholic and N found that out very early on.  Might be something they look for in OW, addictive personality.)  The affair that the OW experiences with the N burns bright and intensely hot but, as I am experiencing now, it also burns out just as quick.  I imagine it is like an accelerated, extreme version of the R the wife has with N.  It is the love a love addict would experience but I am not a love addict and had never felt anything like it before.  Now, just to let you know that I am not a love addict, I just want to be alone.  The thought of another relationship actually physically repulses me right now.

I'm also guessing that my N has gotten worse/more blatant with age.  As he sees his looks fade, he becomes more and more desperate and will no doubt seek younger and younger OWs.  I also believe that he is addicted to cheating and seems to NEED triangulation.  The first real crack in our R happened as soon as his wife acted as though she no longer wanted him.  Then, he no longer had the added excitement of cheating and he had lost his garbage dumpster.  But, she came back to him.  I'm just beginning to see all of this now, in hindsight.  Also, the affairs may become more blatant when the kids have left the house as the N can no longer play the kid off against the wife.  That is just something that I noticed "my" N doing, it might just be him, I don't know.

[overwhelmed]

I never got to cope with it.  he never admitted it.  I always "knew".  I don't think he ever had any type of ongoing affair.  more, random flings along the way.  he'd just rage, deny, turn it all around.  i wish I had caught him, known for sure in a way he couldn't have turned it around.  how did i cope with it?  I lived in the land of doubting myself, looking at it as if my perception wasn't reliable like any good abuse victim does.  my confidence in my perceptions, my reality, etc were gone.  it was a tug of war in myself truth vs illusion that consistently, went round and round in my head.  it's exhausting.  it's something that has, by far, been the most hurtful aspect in my opinion.  i can objectively look at n's behavior, all of it, not just cheating and think, "this is the truth, the real him."  then that doubt, the doubts that swirm and say, "am i the one?  do i just look into everything because it's me and i'm some paranoid person with all the problems?"  THAT IS THE MOST HURTFUL PART. 

[rossignolchante]

Well, first I was in denial, and I believed his lies and trusted that he had the same moral values that I did--ie if he wasn't happy in our r, he would make a break before seeking someone else.

When I finally had incontrovertible evidence that he had been seeing another woman for almost the entire time we had been together, I felt sick, and then I went into "righteous anger."  I called a friend, and she helped me move out the same day I found out, which when I look back now, I feel so good about.  I cursed him up and down, and everything I had been feeling--lack of connection, instinctive mistrust, negative judgement of his actions--everything made sense.  I went from feeling that there was something wrong with me for not being able to really connect with this man, to knowing beyond a shadow of doubt, that my instincts, intuitions and perceptions were 100% dead on.  So that was very empowering.

For some time after, he was still pursuing OW, and she would write me and let me know.  That made me angry again, and also feel a bit rejected, even now its been a few months, and I do have some residual feelings of being rejected, that has always been one of my sensitivities.  Last night I was triggered by a sexual scene in a movie, that is still a sensitive area because he hurt me so much that way, it was so soul destroying for me to have sex with someone who treated me like an object, no matter how much I fought that without realizing it at the time... So I sometimes have to coach myself that that time is over. 

It is a very hard thing.  I think especially in a culture where women are encouraged to compete to "catch" a man, and our value is supposed to be given to us by how much a man finds us desirable and worthy.  I consider myself a very independent person, but am still susceptible to these thoughts, almost unconsciously.

In the end though, he is not what I am looking for.  As I told him, the r is not sustainable.  The scales fell from my eyes, and I saw we had a very superficial relationship, and that my soul was parched for real connection and intimacy.   

[CZBZ]

"I was simply the first affair that he was bold enough about to mess up (accidentally on purpose telling his wife) and I am sure the timing (right after their son left for college) had a LOT to do with it, not how special I was to him." ~victimnomore

Narcissists like to win. IF they don't, they see themselves as losers. So winning means calculating odds and making sure those odds are in the narcissist's favor. It is not uncommon at all, for a narcissist to move his family to another city, another state or even another country and THEN make his bold move of confessing his affair. Or his disdain. He has effectively "isolated" his victim which puts him in a power position over her. She is without her usual resources because we womenfolk are quite adept at building supportive networks, especially neighborhoods. The N knows he will have a harder time beating the spiritual shite out of his wife if she has 'resources', so he waits, bides his time until he's guaranteed to 'win'.

We read articles about marriages falling apart when the grown children leave. As if the Empty Nest Syndrome is the cause. Well, in the case of narcissistic relatioNships, marriages fall apart when grown children leave because he has his victim in an inferior position. She's lost her support. Her resources. And he can manage  his children much better from a distance where they cannot see that he uses their mother for daily target practice.

A pathological narcissist is a danger to other people's mental health. Their projected envy and hatred for their wife stems back to object relations. It is a horribly destructive period of time for her. I wish therapists would consider what is happening to his 'envied object' and treat her with the respect she needs to bear up to his onslaught. I dearly hope WoN can provide a safe place for those women who are in the thick of it. I needed a place like this. What I went through was a bullet short of murder. You think I exaggerate? No. I'm just a survivor with a big voice who can speak of it years later.

What many people MISS is what's happening to the children when Mom is being stripped of her dignity and self-respect. To a child, it's breeding ground for ptsd. Yes, it can be that horrible at home. It's not just the wife who is betrayed...we focus too much on the 'sex' relationship instead of all the relationships being threatened. Narcissists will, I know this from experience, D&D their children IF those children support their mother. The whole family is on the battlefield when the narcissist is being held accountable, which ends up reinforcing his dependence on 'alternative supply' because she is the ONLY person who validates his fine character. Everyone else is telling him he's a louse. Cuz he is.

In the meantime...Dr. Phil counsels wives to take half the responsibility for the demise of their relationship. Infidelity really and truly is a traumatic experience. I find it so very very interesting that we have allowed infidelity to be romanticized in movies, literature and music the way we have considering the social costs. Even I, a hardcore anti-infidelity advocate, find it appalling when a movie has twisted reality so much that I'm rooting for the AFFAIR.   You have to watch yourself and if a movie made by the biggest narcissists in our world (Hollywood) makes you feel as though an affair is beautiful, lovely and spiritually enlightening, Dunk Your Head in the Sink. Or throw a glass of icewater in your face. Don't let yourself be lulled into fantasyland because it's no fairytale with a happy ending for anyone. Particularly not the children.


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

After standing on my soapbox (infidelity fires up my keyboard, ha!), let me add that I have also needed to work through my  betrayal by a 'sister'. I've mentioned before that women have been my mentors, my champions, my friends, my support. To have another woman interfere with my marriage was betrayal on a spiritual level for me. Let me add 'for me' because I don't think every woman feels the same way. It was a double betrayal then and believe me, my x-husbaNd knew how I felt about women and made sure he triangulated us in a most hurtful way. I had returned to college in Women's Studies and told him, (gosh I was so naive) that one of my goals before dying was to do SOMETHING to help women. We've have quite a legacy of oppression to overcome and my heart will always be sided with women even though I know females can be as ruthless and abusive as any male.

I assumed that by appealing to the OW, she would listen to reason and empathize with our family's situation and back off. No...instead, she saw me as being even more disgusting because I believe in my heart of hearts, she knew what she was doing was 'wrong'. She had to justify it somehow, right? I spoke with her on the phone and i called her husband and spoke with him. Desperate was I. And I wouldn't recommend my choices to anyone but hey, that was way before I'd even heard of narcissism much less personality disorder.

I have had a very hard time getting over my sister-betrayal...boo hoo for me. ha! The OW is still with my X-husbaNd, even all these years later and they may have married at this point. I do not know and actually 'hope they are married. She was a good Catholic girl from what people have told me, who left her husband and children to be with him. AND, she is very kind, extremely good to my son. My daughter refuses to meet her. So I'm pretty sure the relationship did not turn out as she'd hoped. She's had a difficult time re-uniting with her adult children, too...her daughter in particular. It's just terrible what happened to all of us. Terrible.

So I am very pleased to be able to talk to women who are having affairs in the hopes of offering some reality... And I do understand how easy it would have been to 'fall for a narcissist' who had status, maybe some money in his pocket (my x certainly had both) and appears to be the answer to Celestinian wishes.  My guess is that most OWs are led into believing they found their soulmate. The N tells them that and our media backs them up. Narcissists are opportunists, you see so when they saw an opportunity they could use to break down a woman's defenses, they took it. That's how Ns are. If there's an idea or concept or tool they can use to serve themselves, they will. Narcissists have no compunction against using anything, even spirituality, to serve themselves. Plus, they might actually believe it...for as long as infatuation lasts, that is. 


Hugs,
CZ

[Pandora]

My x N moved us to another state (I gave up my job of twenty years so he could further his career) then, once here, he found himself yet another Mistress.

This time..I put a bow on him and let him get on with it.

[CZBZ]

Oooo, i am sorry you gave up your career. So did I. For the first time in my marriage, I was taking steps towards showing my art and winning competitions, too. It wasn't long after my first museum exhibit (yea, a tiny museum. Don't look me up in Who's Who...ha!), he just HAD to move. It took a lot of convincing arguments for me to move yet once again, but I did. And then KABOOM.

I regret my choice to leave, but I have absolutely no illusions that moving to another city was the 'cause' of our divorce. People think that though, you know. They think that relocating and remodeling were too much stress for him...but no. Once he 'got me' to give up my dream and move, his arrogance rooted even deeper.


Hugs,
CZ

[Paula]

This has really turned into an interesting thread. So many interesting comments.

Victumnomore,
I was thinking about what you said about N's and OW. I saw a certain degree of obsession and craziness with NH when I believe he got heavily involved. So, I kind of get it and believe what you are saying about the rush and intensity. I could see how OW believed that he was madly in love with her to the point of divorcing her husband and other foolish actions. Yes. N's demand center stage so they get jealous if kids and wife are too close. That was true in my case. He would say demeaning things about me in front our son. I think he was teaching him to disrespect me. Alot of N's are just plain jealous of their own kids.  I do think some of this affair type stuff is related to acting out fantasies or projections of the false self. These men are so horrid at times to the spouse yet spouse decides she has had enough and things begin to shift very quickly. Maybe it stems from some type of security the mate has provided. Maybe they fear rejection even though they don't mind doing the rejecting. Hard to tell. I do think that there is some type of fragmentation of the personality, like they are acting out these different parts.
Paula

[honeybearII]

Ns take on the personality of the idealized partner in order to pull them in.  I saw it multiple times when he was pursuing someone.  Was she interested in cooking?  Suddenly he was buying cookbooks and making dinner.  Interested in gardening?  Mr. Never Do Anything Around the Yard was suddenly landscaping the house and reading up on plants.  Was she interested in books?  Mr. Never Read a Book was suddenly spouting quotes from bestsellers which he never read but learned about from quickie reviews.

It was amazing how the obsession with a PERSON would suddenly get translated into an obsession into anything SHE was interested in.  It was all a sham....yet another mask that the N learns how to put on to become the Everything to the Idealized Woman.

Honey

[betterdays]

Like Overwhelmed, I could not deal with what N will never admit.  Underwear in my bed was from the cleaning ladies.  Women calling, and intimate conversations were my paranoid nature showing.

Like CZ, I felt the sister betrayal (great way of phrasing it)  acutely, and still whenever I think of his betrayals.  I should have been more suspicious, as one of the first movies N exclaimed over was a movie called Betrayal,with Ben Kingsley starring as the cuckholded husband.  It struck me as odd that N professed such loyalty and went nuts over a movie about cheating from your wedding day on. 

It never made sense, as I used to be quite good looking, and he always compared my looks to other men's wives, saying he had a much more beautiful spouse.  Once he said I was his greatest social asset.  Go ahead and laugh, I thought he meant my intelligence and ability to connect with many types of people.  They loved coming to our home for dinner parties, and I was known for my ability to tell funny but tasteful jokes.  Who would ever cheat on me? 

Many friends over the years told me I had it all, or comments to that effect.  It always made me feel uneasy.  The OW's, interestingly enough, never gave me the time of day, even in my own home.  N passed it off as them being "ice cubes in high heels".

[CZBZ]

It is not uncommon for the narcissist to take the 'other woman' into his home for a dinner party, watching the dynamics like a spectator. His wife has no idea (this makes the narcissist feel superior 'cuz he is pulling the wool over her eyes, so to speak) and the 'other woman' is playing her part by pretending to be the wife's friend. She's in collusion with him. To her, she might not understand that she's a bit player in a B-rated movie. It's a drama high and the wife has no idea what's going on.

Many 'wives' have written about joint camping trips, dinner parties, even celebrations like christening a new baby where the OW was in attendance. Sometimes she is one of his wife's best friends. This makes it even more 'fun' for the narcissist to watch a woman betray her friend FOR HIM. Now some affairs are not this calculating and sadistic but we're not talking about those affairs. We're talking about the Narcissistic Relationship.

One more thing I'd like to add: I truly did not have a single solitary clue that my X was having an affair. That says absolutely nothing about my DENIAL or my mental illness or my Co-dependency blinding me 'cuz I was too afraid to face the truth. NO. All it says, and this goes for most of you, is how MANIPULATIVE narcissists can be. What fantastic actors they are and how cunningly they play their part without nervousness or any hints of deception. It takes a personality disorder to pull that off!

I believe anyone could be in a situation that rendered them especially vulnerable to infidelity. I do NOT believe that anybody (a normal person) could manage such deception without being 'disordered', even psychopathic to some degree.


Hugs,
CZ

[honeybearII]

As someone who "enjoyed" the friendship of the OWs (and it was more than one!!), I can tell you that I never suspected that exNH was having an affair with these women.  We socialized with them as couples, we watched their kids, we had them into my home and my life.  In retrospect, I realize that it was somehow a thrill for the N to realize that the wife and OW were socializing and "getting to know" each other. 

From THIS viewpoint, way away from the craziness, I also realize how sick the whole thing was.  I also, like you CZ, for a long time didn't understand any of it.  I am a person who used to take people at face value.  You are a friend of my husband?  Great!!  Welcome to my home and into my life.  NOW, however, I question and understand the depths of human depravity a lot more.  I see that the N took some kind of sick pleasure in all of that.  At the time, though, I never suspected or could even comprehend that someone who claimed to be a moral and ethical person could be boinking a woman and invite her into the lives of not only his wife but his children.

Sick, sick and even sicker.  Both of them.
Honey

[betterdays]

Exactly, Honey, exactly. And yes, CZ, it says more about the deceiver than the deceived.

[CZBZ]

It does but haven't you found that most people assume the wife is 'blind' intentionally? That she's kinda airheaded or something? One of the first questions people ALWAYS ask me is, "Didn't you notice something was different?" If you say "No", well, they just can't imagine that. Then you're defending your own integrity as a smart woman. ha!! It's kinda funny now but not back then. Back then, I felt it was necessary to DEFEND myself for not noticing.

Anyway, it bothers me how women are grilled about 'the warning signs' which are always apparent in hindsight but ONLY because we give them meaning once the truth is out. I don't think this is particularly 'fair' to ourselves or anyone because had my X-husbaNd NOT had an affair, I'd interpret his slight change of behavior very differently. But still, women are encouraged to pin-point specific signs that their partner was having an affair. It's kinda stupid to me really...

Hindsight can make it appear we were in denial. It's one of the mind-tricks we use to make ourselves feel safer...as if 'seeing' the signs means it won't happen again 'cuz we're just too damn smart to be hoodwinked. Well, if you never trust your next partner and always READ meaning into the slightest of things, you won't be betrayed most likely. But you won't "Love" either cuz to me, Trust is fundamental to love.

I guess my point is that love is always a risk. Ya win some, ya lose some but trust is elemental. And that means you open your heart to betrayal.


Hugs,
CZ

[victimnomore]

Overwhelmed, I know exactly what you mean about uncertainty and about doubting yourself.  I don't know with any kind of certainty about the new OW in Ns life.  N has (no doubt intentionally) dropped obvious clues and insinuations that lead me to the almost inescapable conclusion that there is a new OW in his life, but when I have specifically asked, he has denied it and instead he has helpfully suggested that I am mistrustful to the point of paranoia.  Really?  I do not have paranoia about anything/anyone else.  I don't know whether he actually has a new OW or whether he is intentionally leaving obvious clues in order to gaslight me into thinking that, but the healthy part of me asks: what difference does it make anyway?  Either way, he is abusive and sick.  Overwhelmed, it is NOT us, IT IS THEM.  Oh, but they are good at the tricks of the mind, making us into our own worst enemies, doubting our perception of reality, doubting our gut, our mind.  They are expert manipulators and crazymakers, and I'm pretty sure "my" N is into mind control and hypnosis as well.  Hearing about these other OWs that dropped everything, their entire lives, their husbands, kids, homes, for the N almost immediately, it makes me wonder if these Ns aren't also using hypnosis, even some kind of black magic (something I would not have given any credence to in the past but that now, crazy as it might sound, I cannot completely rule out.)     

[Paula]

Victumnomore,
I read your last post and didn't think about it much untill yesterday. I was on Sandra Brown's site and she has a little, 4 minute video on the order products page and I happened to watch it. She talks about what you mentioned in this video. She says it's a common discription from women that have been involved with pychopath's to feel as if they have been hypnotized or in a "trans-state."
She actually has an hypnosis tape for sale that counteracts this "trans-state" activated by the toxic relationship. Then this morning I saw this same thing again when I was reviewing books on Amazon. This time it was mentioned in a discussion about a book by John Bradshaw. Strange.
Paula

[Julia]

XN is very, very bored and dry about OW. He has been since nearly the beginning. He is not troubled when she breaks up with him, nor excited when they make up. He begged to come back and move in with me (no way) and when I asked about OW and had he talked to her about it, it was like he had forgotten how that would make her feel, like he forgot she existed, and how that would look to me. I talked to OW for several months while XN was last hospitalized, and she has never been sure that he even cares about her. I would not be surprised at all to find out that he had never said 'I love you" to her, since that was his MO with me. He loves to twist the woman into making herself believe she is loved, without actually saying it, or acting like he loves them. OW feels some noble obligation to help him beat his depression...but I am sure that deep down she wants a happy ever after.

He is definitely a different kind of N, and I know that makes it harder for some of you to relate to my stories. But he is certified NPD, by many, many professionals, and I have come to believe that he is the ideal display of what really lurks underneath the mask. XN has virtually no mask left at this point, and that is what bothers him most, what he is most envious of his family. He is literally the walking dead, a sucking hole of need, whose only "charm" is his powerful family and that he is a physician.  

Victimnomore, take this opportunity to find your old self. If  N has her locked in some imaginary box sealed with your seduction, then come up with a symbolic way to break open that box and free your real self. Make a collage, picture, poem, etc that really expresses the whole courtship, making sure to show the hidden demon sides of him along with the Prince. And then destroy it, thoroughly and well. Let the real you, the woman who would not do adultery destroy the facade for good and release herself.  You said you wanted to be the one to leave?, well you still have that opportunity, and that obligation. He will happily mess with you for quite a while, he will enjoy getting adoring new OW supply from the new woman, and desperate rejected supply from you, angry crazed neglected wife supply too. To him it just makes for better variety and the triangulation is delicious.

Julia

[Julia]

CZ,

Bam!  I love, love, loved the soapbox about us not believing the Hollywood claptrap that there is such a thing as a Noble Affair. It is bad enough that they make all those movies about young unmarried women falling for the bad boy Ns, it is obnoxious when have people cheating with Ns and show the kids seamlessly blending into the new make-believe happy family.

Julia

[honeybearII]

What is so hard for wives, OWs, family members to understand, is that to an N people are interchangeable.  We all want to believe we are special and deserve to be loved specially, and WE ARE!!  However, in the eyes of an N, one relationship is not better or worse than another as long as they get some supply.  I have seen exNH walk away from our 32 years together, remarry into a totally different family, and suddenly the new wife's teenagers are more his children than his own children.  The hurt that has caused my children, even though in their 30s, is something that I can hardly talk about, it is so hurtful.

Off with one family, on with another.  Dump one wife, find another one immediately.  It really doesn't matter WHO the new supply is as long as they are someone who meet the criteria - total and complete adoration of the N.  My husband's new wife was married to a closet homosexual for over 15 years.  N must have seemed like the "real deal" to her after THAT lovely mess, LOL
Honey

[Paula]

CZ,
I can really understand why you never suspected a thing because these N's are so devious. They have an explanation ready for everything thought out in advance. They are the best hiders  and sneaks in the world, bar none. You hit upon the primary reason for my difficulty leaving and that was the isolation factor where he has kept me on the move so much. What really gave him the most power was moving me away from family and support. That has been a really big, huge factor.