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Author Topic: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)  (Read 1718 times)

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Offline CZBZ

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The WoN copyright gives me permission as the administrator to: move, edit, delete individual messages and/or threads as needed. The WoN copyright gives me permission to ‘prune’ long threads or old threads because of webspace limits.  If our forum increases in size, this may be necessary to fit within my financial budget paying for webspace costs to maintain and run this website.

 The WoN copyright gives me permission as the administrator, to edit your messages for a non-profit, educational website in conjunction with our forum: The WoN Connection listed on our sidelinks. This is what the WoN copyright provides. It also provides an additional bonus to you, as members. It gives me teeth in the event your messages (which you have posted on WoN), are copied and posted elsewhere. This is how website administrators protect their members’ anonymity.

Every respectable forum of which I have participated, has a disclaimer more or less to this effect---granting the administrator the right to manage her site in a reasonable and useful way but it does not give her the right to publish your messages without your consent! In other words, YOU retain full copyright on your messages and YOU can publish your messages but you cannot copy, distribute or publish anyone else’s written work---even a public forum message.

This has not been an issue until recently and we, as advisors, were uncertain of the legalities. It sounds ominous when the forum administrator says she has a legal copyright on your words. What it means though is that I can move a thread from the Barn (for example) and put it in the Chicken coop. Or, I can move it from inside the castle and put it in the Duck Pond. I do not have to ask permission from forum members to do that which, as you can well imagine, would be impossible and a waste of everyone’s time.

I hope this clarifies any questions you might have about WoN copyright. Or my desire to steal forum member’s words because seriously now folks, have I ever been at a loss for words OR stories??

If you have questions about copyrights, plagiarism or intellectual property, please feel free to ask. This is a perennial topic on our forum and I hope we can allay any concerns people might have.

It can be emotionally traumatic when we 'break the silence' and start talking. We might even be slightly paranoid (I certainly was!) So if you are still concerned about your words being stolen, don't post, just coast.  =msn wink= Your comfort IS our concern. If you don't feel comfortable sharing, post an emoticon. I promise not to steal it.  =msn heart=


CZ and her Advisory Team

=msn heart=  =msn heart=  =msn heart=


p.s. I am editing an article to post on our sidelinks...hopefully this will clear up any misunderstandings people might have.



« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 04:07:26 PM by CZBZ »
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline honeybearII

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Re: The WoN Copyright
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 06:58:33 AM »
This may not seem terribly important to many of us, but sadly this issue comes up from time to time when members inexplicably feel that they are being victimized on a forum - even this one!   =msn happy= 

CZ is the administrator of this site, but she also has a group of trusted people, her board, and NOTHING is decided pertaining to the members that has not been fully discussed by the board.  CZ is very, VERY careful and does not act arbitrarily or without input from some of us who have been on this board almost from its inception. 

No forum like this is without some controversy because when people are healing from major life trauma, it is to be expected that there will be some triggering subjects, some misconstrued messages and a bit of anger once in a while.  What we as a board try to do is to keep this site a place a neutral forum where posters and readers can come and feel comfortable talking with other people who have experienced the craziness of dealing with an N.  Sometimes, however, this means we attract people who are still struggling with the understanding of boundaries (a MAJOR issue with people who have been in an N relatioNship) and who don't understand where their right to say what they want to, and our responsibility as a board to ALL the members,  come into conflict. 

Honey



Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 02:35:00 PM »
Thanks, Honeybear! For those who may not know, I work with several people whom I have known for years. We were each devastated by a narcissistic relationship but we were not broken! We met online when we were at our very worst and from there, sealed our friendship with face-to-face relationships.

 We are each committed not only to our friendship with one another, but also to our common purpose and devotion to and love for: the WoN Organization.

We have been through some ugly battles on message boards---especially when WoN was first organized in 2005. If you are curious, read the first part of this article on my blog: Narcissistic Continuum

I've written a few other articles about the struggles we've faced as a group and as individuals. The recovery process is never pretty. It can get ugly fast when people displace their emotional state of being onto a specific person who is then viewed as the source of all evil and unnatural states of being in our world and foreverafter henceforth diagnosed as a narcissist. This does not happen very often. I can count the number of times we have not been able to communicate effectively and come to an understanding and agreement with a member of our forum! Maybe three times since 2005?

When I/we cannot arrive at a mutual understanding of group boundaries protecting individual freedom, we may experience some turbulence. Occasionally, Talia-the-flight-attendant will offer oxygen masks to members of the forum. Breath. Breath deeply. Someone is having a anxiety attack and sucking the air out of the room. 

An upset forum member can be disorienting to people who might not understand the complexity of recovery. I wish I were able to reach everyone, calm everyone's anxiety, promise never to 'trigger' anyone, or to never fall short of Obama-communication-skills. I wish I could comfort each forum member and help her feel safe, and cared about, and loved. I wish there were a way to GROW as individuals and as a group, that didn't exacerbate defenses and cloud our perceptions so much that we didn't even realize we were transferring, displacing, regressing, acting out, splitting, defending ourselves from a threat that IS NOT there.

I wish we could avoid sticking the angry N's face on the leader of the forum.  =msn agony=

So, it has come to my attention that we have a Hateful Website discussing me, the horrible leader of WoN who gets folks to sign up so she can steal their words and ignore them and demand obedience from her loyal followers. *sigh* This has happened before and it will probably happen again though if I had the power to tuck each person under my wing and 'cluck' your problems away, I certainly would.

Usually, I Hate WoN websites are ignored as vitriolic rantings that will pass, because they do. When the person has worked through this particular stage of healing, she/he often contacts me and apologizes. Which I graciously accept because I understand how crazy 'healing' can be. I've been there, too. However, as managers, we have devoted years towards creating a safe and respectable forum. I have personally devoted a full year of my time creating additional blogs that will supplement our forum and help newbies as well as people like myself---oldies but not-quite-done-yet. Because of the time, money and 'soul' invested in the WoN organization, we have changed our advisory policy. We will ask angry site-owners to cease and desist. If this warning is ignored, we will take action. Lucky for WoN, my brother is an attorney.

We will not tolerate anyone attacking our organization and not because our widdle egos can't stand the insult. But because external hate sites destroy vulnerable members trust. Hate sites silence people. Disconnect them from one another. The intent to destroy a forum's credibility via character assasination interrupts people's healing process, right when they NEED connection to avoid becoming hateful and bitter, isolated and defensive. Hate sites feed on member's anxiety and hyper-vigilance, their vulnerability.

We have an amazing track record on WoN. This forum is managed by smart women, good women. Women who care enough to devote their free time and money towards sponsoring a recovery group. It would be SOOOOOO much easier to set up a blog and not do the work required building a community. It would be even easier to have a static website offering information, but not intimate support.

Because of our deep love for the WoN organization, we have decided as managers that our organization is worth protecting from slander and defamation. Haters beware. We will no longer ignore your intention to destroy the WoN organization or administrators.

Pass it on. Defamatory websites can be prosecuted. Unless people have a few thousand bucks to donate to the WoN organization (which I could seriously put to good use helping other people), our suggestion is to think very hard about attacking the integrity of our organization or administrators.

CZ
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 04:44:17 PM by CZBZ »
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline JennyWren

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 05:04:46 PM »
Hello WoN Copyright policy makers!!! Just to say I for one am not at all bothered what is done with anything I write as it is all total cobblers anyway. If I had anything world-changing to say that I wanted to keep for my very own self I would not write it on an open message board. Anonymously with a made-up name. So move it where you like, delete it, memorise-and-eat it.....ooooh.....I made a rhyme!!! Perhaps it`s NOT all total cobblers after all......No....actually it really is!

I have no clue what has been going on while I was up to my eyeballs in paint and sandpaper a few weeks back. Sounds like I timed that about right. But if the upshot of it all is a different or highlighted copyright policy....just to say....you are more than welcome to my countless blithering words CZ. And always have been.

I am here to learn from the massive wisdom, experience and enormous collective intelligence on this forum. I find myself compelled to offer my thoughts (such as they are) to others when their posts stir me up to respond. If I should write something of value for others troubled by Ns then I would be thrilled to meatballs. But I am not here to make a name for myself. And the heartfelt carefully thought-out fantastic responses that come from other posters seem to me to be working in a similar vein. Together we can grow and learn and beat the effects the various Ns have had inour lives. That is why I am here. I believe that is why you CZ and your team are here. And although I have no idea what incident/whatever has upset somebody, and I hope I have not insensitively steamrollered over anybody here....I just wanted to say I appreciate the support leant to me at a time when I have often been lost. Completely out of my depth and sinking. The kind-hearted people of WoN have always lent me their time and wisdom. And for that I am very grateful.

JennyWren

Offline Imogene

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 07:19:10 PM »
Cobblers!--you Brits have all the good colloquialisms.

CZ, are you asking for donations?

Offline betterdays

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 07:48:22 PM »
CZ, could you clarify?  I don't see a problem.  If you want to quote a member, that's not so big a deal, right?  If you are writing a book, then you might use quotes to illustrate points, but that could be done from any source, students, neighbors, etc. 

I don't know of any WoN detractors, but I do have a question--is there any link between you, CZ, and the Lynn of the "other" forum who also writes about fairy tales?  Myth and folk tales are common material  in psych circles, but I'm wondering if that's what you are talking about.  Are you being plagiarized?

This site has been a help to me in ways you cannot fail to understand, since we share the common experience of falseness and deceit.  Most people do not get it. So, quote me all you want, I doubt I have any magic bullets and most of the time, not even anything very applicable to say.  My goal is to learn and be constructive. If my thoughts are not going to help, and my experience is not similar, I don't post.  Once in a while I try to point out something, but it often has been illustrated in a previous post.  Women here are intelligent, wise, and resourceful, and diverse.  The spirit of healing and support is what strikes me the most.
"Sometimes I like awake at night and ask, 'Where did I go wrong?'  Then a voice says to me, 'This is going to take more than one night.'"---Charles Schultz

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 10:22:58 PM »
And here I thought my message was as clear as Idaho trout streams. ha! Thanks for asking questions, though. It helps me clarify my points so everyone understands exactly where we stand as an organization.

I hope everyone heard one thing though: We Love WoN. We love working with women. We love what we do, creating an inviting and supportive environment. We love sharing the knowledge about pathological relationships. And we love connecting with people straggling into our forum exactly the way we did when we met in cyberspace.

I am not asking for donations. It took a minute for me to see where that question came from.  =msn tongue= And sure enough, it was the conclusion of my article about "Hate Sites" and defamatory law suits. What I meant was that 'if' the current situation should escalate beyond resolution, a law suit might bring enough money to hang chandeliers on our website. No one wants it to get to this point so my hope and my prayer is that this message will be heard and the problem will be managed in a mature and Christian manner.

But Imogene, should I need donations, I will be upfront and honest about it. My retirement budget includes a category for WoN. That is how deeply committed I am (and advisors are) to WoN.

In times like this, one might question why we sit at our keyboards but hey, This Too Shall Pass.

No donations please!


Hugs,
CZ
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline monique94550

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 10:25:33 PM »
CZ, I don't know anything about the copyright issues and/or the hate websites, but I do know you and the other advisors/leaders have my 100% support, trust, and love.

Monique

Offline Imogene

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 10:46:47 PM »
Hey, CZ.

My query has nothing to do with the hate-fest stuff.  It comes from the fact that you've mentioned funding WoN a few times recently.  (This subtle mind-reading stuff--it's mildly problematic.  On the other hand, sometimes this instinct has led me to offer much-needed help or support or whatever to a person who needed it but was afraid to ask. So I like to reality check.)   I appreciate that you'd be upfront about telling us if and when you do need help.  This board is seeing me through an awful time and really helping me in a way nothing else has.  You deserve a lot of credit for that, and you should not let the fact that a few individuals have issues get to you. 

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 11:10:24 PM »
Hi dear Monique! You changed your avatar! Not that the former image wasn't funny in a horror film sort of way, but considering the way this day has gone, it's rather nice not seeing a chef's knife in a mad woman's hands.  =msn tongue= I very much appreciate your support. It's comforting to know that people see the 'real' CZ and the 'real' advisory team. Like the rest of you, we are normal women with normal lives and though SydneyFireworks and I have both retired, the other advisors work full-time and then some. None of us receives any compensation or FAME, ha!

As I've told disgruntled forum members before (members who needed a boundary check and didn't like getting one), try running your own forum before you become a critic. It does wonders for your ego. ha!! I learned that lesson the hard way----like most lessons I need to learn.

Dear betterdays,

I am not being plagiarized nor have I been hugely concerned about copyrighting my posts  =msn agony= ---obviously. I've written more than 75000 messages since 2002. I have been accused of plagiarizing others. This recent incident with a former WoN member suggests that as a forum manager, I steal people's words (to what benefit i might ask since nothing brings financial gain!). I do hope my critics are not wearing tin foil hats but you gotta wonder sometimes.


To All,

The real issue, is that when we are 'breaking the silence', we are nervous, anxious, fearful. We might even border on being paranoid. It's scary. We talk about the narcissist and we have dreams about falling through the center of the world or being punished for speaking the truth. There were times when I was 'terrified', absolutely terrified about opening the closed doors of my life.

I did it anyway. I laid awake some nights.

I believe people are 'feeling' anxious and frightened but the object to fear is NOT ME. It isn't. I'm not a bone-chilling, dominatrix who flits from one message board to another, looking for the next catchy phrase so I can...'what?' What would I do with the next catchy phrase someone wrote? Or the next great and original idea I won't make money on.  =msn tongue=  Good Lord.

Let me state this as clearly as possible--hopefully loud enough to boom through the galaxy and ricochet off planets:

I have NO interest in stealing anyone's ideas or words OR husband. (I just threw that last bit in, just in case.....ha!)

If you are afraid to post, just coast.

Picture me with my hand on the Bible and the other hand raised in the air, "I, CZ, hereby swear under oath of God, that I will never steal anyone's words or steal their ideas and I will never ever steal another woman's man."

Hugs,
CZ
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2011, 11:20:41 PM »
Dear Imogene,

Referring to 'money' is tied to recent criticisms about the WoN forum. I'd like to be as clear as possible with everyone who fears someone might make money off their words or ideas or story or situation or whatever. This is also a perennial issue on recovery forums. When 'money' comes up a forum manager can:

1-Ignore it
2-Address it
3-Talk it to death
4-Bore people with long and cryptic explanations

I prefer Door Number Four.  =msn tongue=

Thanks for your support and kindness, Imogene. In the past, we have ignored people's preposterous allegations because gosh, you don't do what we have done for nearly nine years without developing a fairly stable and healthy ego. Sometimes you have to draw a boundary on aggression and it's never a simple matter.

Hugs,
CZ
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 11:35:59 PM by CZBZ »
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline JennyWren

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 02:20:44 AM »
"I have NO interest in stealing anyone's ideas or words OR husband" - CZ

Oh please CZ would you make an exception just this once and steal my husband? He is hardly any trouble at all (!!!???!!) Just feed him like a King, agree with everything he says, admire him endlessly, and enjoy the withering words of his mother every five seconds. That`s not much to ask. In return, you will benefit greatly from endless critisism, blame for even the slightest or imagined problem, an enormous burden of guilt and a ruthless attack on your self esteem. Once in a lifetime offer. Going cheap. Always read the small print.

CZ, as others have said, WoN is a unique and invaluable place. Your input is full of balance, depth and compassion. And delivered in a hold-no-punches non-patronising way. Plus you often have me laughing my socks off on days when I really really need to and have had problems raising a smile. I am very VERY glad you and the other advisor`s invest so much time and effort. Collectively, your compassion shines through. And you never talk a load of "cobblers" (There. That`s got another bonkers Brit-word on the record for a second time)

Keep going just-as-you-are. Pllllllllleeeeease!
Love Jen

Offline yesIam

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 06:39:00 AM »
I rarely post here, but I read nearly every day.  I'm just posting to say that this is the best forum I've ever see/read/participated in...bar none.

The mega-drama to which this thread responds is very, very sad to witness.

Agreed, it is a boundary issue. I followed the precipitating "events" and could find nothing offensive on the part of administrator...

still, it is sad.

Thank you for this amazing place of support and healing.
 =msn heart=

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 04:20:30 PM »
"Oh please CZ would you make an exception just this once and steal my husband?" ~JennyWren

Sorry, Jen. As much as I would like to accommodate your wishes, there is no freaking way on earth, in hell, or even heaven, that I'd consider taking that man off your hands! There has to be a maximum quota for how many rat bazturds a woman has to deal with in one lifetime.

Gosh, you made me laugh though! Right out loud while browsing the forum on my iphone. Thanks for the laugh and bless your heart for gifting this dreary thread with comic relief.


Hugs,
CZ =msn heart=
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 04:43:19 PM »
Thanks for posting, yesIam! I appreciate hearing from members who have followed this story.  =msn heart=

Witnessing a forum member's struggles is painful--especially if you made a connection with him or her. How best to handle the situation for everyone's best welfare is my job and our challenge as seasoned administrators. It is extremely troublesome for people who have not been online for very long.

For those who have participated in recovery forums (especially Adult /Abused Children), similar situations are less confusing. People realize that working through an abusive childhood will be problematic. Healing is rough for everyone but it's especially difficult for children of narcissists. If anyone has participated in 12-step, they've also witnessed similar breakdowns but it's not so easy to rant outside the 12-step meeting and be taken seriously! So truly, we know this is not personal.

I know it's not about me. It's not about WoN.

It is not about anybody on this forum or any situation that may have occurred in the past.

It is about setting limits on what people can write on the Internet.

Defamatory blogs are serious problems when anonymous people attack websites, organizations, or businesses without restraint. This problem is being addressed with litigation because sometimes you cannot appeal to common decency or reason. The only thing that gets through to some folks, is money. If it costs $$$ to slander an organization, well, that might put  brakes on the retaliation.

In the best of situations, it 'might' wake them up, break through their unconscious defenses and initiate a new stage of growth. That is my wishful Pollyanna talking.

When compassion and reason fail, call a lawyer. Isn't that a sad state of affairs today?


Hugs,
CZ

"As social networking sites and internet blogs continue to increase in both popularity and use, the opportunities for defamatory and libelous actions increase proportionally. Defamation, sometimes called “defamation of character”, is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person’s reputation. Slander is generally spoken defamation, while ‘libel’ is written. Blogs or social networks in which defamatory statements are written or recorded present several potential sources of liability and recovery for the person whose character was defamed. In cases where the defamation is proved, damages are presumed and often enforced with liberality..." ~Defamation and Slander on the Internet

« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 05:02:33 PM by CZBZ »
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline changedspirit

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 04:49:44 PM »
Hey CZ and my Won amazing support.......I love the sight and CZ's wisdom along with everyone else.....in the spring we had a weather trauma here in the northeast and my basement went into ultra flood zone and I had to go into the physical survival mode and basically deal with insurance, house trauma survival and just stopped alot of extra stuff including WON posting.....but i have been reading and absorbing almost everyday.  I felt it important to come back on and post and state that I feel from the bottom of my heart and soul that this is definitely a SAFE HAVEN and I am so grateful and honor this amazing resource... and I am now  putting the pieces of the basement fallout back together  and will begin to make my presence back here to my home..with gratitude and thanks to all --  ChangedSpirit

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2011, 05:00:57 PM »

Welcome back, changedspirit! What a mess you've been dealing with!  I hope insurance covered your losses and you didn't lose too many precious things in your basement. People often store their memorabilia like photographs and letters in the basement. When it floods, everything is ruined so I sure hope you weren't one of the Basement Archivists.  =msn heart=

I love that you love the site and that you love the collective wisdom of this group. When I have a problem even if it doesn't merit posting on the board, I come into the Grand hall (imagine chandeliers, giant white fireplace, see image above) and just soak up the energy. I am serious.

Love to you and to all who have made WoN what it is today!

CZ
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline smp

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2011, 07:48:13 PM »
CZBZ - You are welcome to any and all of my words - I wouldn't wish the n almost out of my life on anybody!!. Here on WON - I have found a safe haven, no matter what, I have received nothing less than validation, caring, and support. So much different than what I experience in the world these days.

I have to say, I cracked up with your "I'm not a bone-chilling, dominatrix" just not what I imagined - especially with your avatar!! great "mind movie!!

I am glad to know the advisers will not tolerate any "hate" from others - keeps all of us safe. You have worked long and hard to provide this site for people like me who were so very lost and confused. It brought clarity to what I was actually dealing with. This site gives me strength, gives me a new perspective when I have tunnel vision. When I am feeling down, or just not sure which way to go - I know I can come here and leave with my burdens lifted - not by anyone telling me what to do, but because I know there is hope and I do have choices. To know others have traveled this path before me, (and I am deeply sorry anyone of you had to) and are coming through to the "other side" of the intense nightmare - gives me immense hope.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 08:10:51 AM by smp »
Now - bring me that horizon

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2011, 09:01:00 PM »
Dear smp,

I'll take you at your word and right after posting this message, your comments will be on The WoN Connection. Have you read this page, yet?

"Together, we have WoN." IT has been a truly rewarding experience pulling that site together after years of talking with amazing women, like yourself. The kind who can ride an angry bull and tether calves at the same time.  =msn tongue= The kind of women who can make Filet Mignon and serve it in the dining room on a table she refinished herself and ten chairs upholstered by hand, then whip up cherries jubilee and carry it to sixteen dinner guests before the flames go out. Resilient women with  steel blue wills and minds of their own yet they know how to love and love deeply. Yup. That's a WoN woman for ya.

Hugs,
CZ
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline too_many

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2011, 09:04:45 PM »
Yikes, CZ! That's not me - I'm doing well if I slice and steam a head of broccoli =msn tongue= - can I still stay?
Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.
 

             -- Wm. Shakespeare, "Measure for Measure"

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2011, 09:12:18 PM »
Well, let's see. Can you set that head of broccoli on fire? If you can scorch it over the stove and still eat it without complaint, then yes. You belong here. I never said the filet mignon was edible, nor that the cherries jubilee weren't burnt to a crisp...)


Hugs,
CZ
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister

Offline too_many

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2011, 09:23:06 PM »
Well, I haven't set broccoli alight yet, but I have boiled a (nonwhistling!) tea kettle dry, so that will have to do, because I mean to stay regardless. :)
Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.
 

             -- Wm. Shakespeare, "Measure for Measure"

Offline JennyWren

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2011, 02:39:55 AM »
I have caused a fire in the microwave before...does that count? Big flames and everything, lots of smoke...the full works! Tip....do not microwave a Pie on full power for 30mins thinking you have used the Convection oven setting. Unless you have a fire extinguisher.

I have also scorched broccoli many times. There is no end to my abilty to carbonize food.

Offline Freezer Burned

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Re: The WoN Copyright
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2011, 09:58:44 AM »
So, it has come to my attention that we have a Hateful Website discussing me . . .
(((((CZ)))))

I'm sorry you have to endure stuff like that. I have been wanting to say so, but didn't want to start a thread and bring unnecessary or unwanted attention to the situation.
 
You have the patience of a saint, when I had a forum my policy was - Behave or Be Banned! It never ceases to amaze me how people blow into someone's privately owned forum (club house) and think they have "rights" as if it was a public street corner. I am glad to be able to come into WoN and not have to see "cuckoo eggs" anymore, which has been bothering me for some time. It's one thing to post a link, it's quite another thing to "lay" a whole blogpost in someone else's forum.

When WoN was down for renovations I was clicking on other N related links and Lo and Behold a rant about you of all people! Well, haters gonna hate. She accused you of kicking her off of WoN, which I knew was a fabrication because I had already read the whole dreary mess on WoN where you gently asked her to adhere to the code of conduct and she got angry, accused you of kicking her out, picked up her toys and went home. . . To write a 10 page smear campaign (update, there are more spews, freaky, scary). I didn't read the whole thing, I have a short attention span and figured it was only more lies about you which would only make me feel sad.

Luv, Freezer Burned
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 10:58:48 AM by Freezer Burned »

Offline CZBZ

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Re: The WoN Copyright (this thread is not as boring as it sounds, ha!)
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2011, 02:42:03 PM »
Luv back, freezerburned! What a comfort to hear from someone who has known me for a long time! Didn't we meet on the NPD forum way back in, let's see...was it 2004 or something like that? If I try guessing the exact month, then you'll know for sure I'm getting O-L-D. Age is relative though. My 100-year-old Aunt says I'm a spring chicken.  =chicken2=

You've managed a group and you've watched WoN develop it's own style over the years. You know this job is not easy and you also know it's rewarding. When good folks do nothing, bad shite keeps happening. Isn't that how the cliche goes? So...we try to do something and the benefits are plenty, including Self-Growth. My desire was to be a voice for the victims of Ns and Ps and Cluster Bs...to offer a respite from the ignorance of everyday average people who don't know (nor never will maybe) what we have been through...offering advice that is doubly insulting because they are so blissfully stupid.  =msn tongue= =thumbs down= =big grin=

Sometimes, no matter how much we care, or share, or dare to 'love' people, it's not reciprocated. It might even be punished if we fail in the slightest for meeting their needs...you probably know this from managing a group. When we first organized WoN, we had a battle or two, always INCITED by Internet anonymity.

I was a volunteer secretary for a 12-step group along with being a sponsor, which I only mention because of the high probability for people to take offense since everyone is anxious, stressed, in a panic, freaking out, overwrought, regressing, displacing, venting and losing it. What helps a recovery group stick together are strict adherence to the rules PLUS face-to-face relationship. Sure, you are anonymous and people may not know your name BUT they know your face and that alone holds egos in check. There is some restraint on the part of each person in the group as a witness AND each person in the group recognizes the dangers of 'recovery'. We're advised about all the pitfalls where we can mess up...screw up...end up self-destructing and believe the WHOLE damn time that we're seeing things exactly as they are.

No. We are seeing through the child's eyes and reliving earlier dynamics. I can tell you, at the time, NOBODY can convince you otherwise, though. I have learned to respect our ability to self-deceive, to find explanations for our miserable, anxious feelings...explanations that made no sense in present time and yet, we were absolutely convinced that the lady in the apron was Satan's handmaiden. I have made mistakes assuming my perceptions were valid so my understanding comes from each point in the drama triangle: as the persecutor, the rescuer and the victim.

As I said in my prior message, the question becomes a legal one. How much and what can an anonymous person say or do without being prosecuted? Even in Berkeley, you need a permit to picket.  =msn tongue= On the Internet, all you need is a blog, some time, good key words and links. No permit required. No watch guard on hostility.

The Internet has been compared to the Wild, Wild West where people pack six-shooters and fire at anyone they please. Anonymity is like wearing a mask so nobody can hold you accountable. You don't worry about 'saving face' because you don't have one. Just go to YouTube. Read the comments. It's a free-for-all and innocent people are hurt by the insults, yet we say, "Well, its the Internet. It's not real." Or we say (as my family says to me 'cuz they can't imagine why I do what I do!), "If you go to cyberspace, you're asking to get shot." As if I set myself up to be attacked!! As if that makes aggression okay?!

Now that cyber-communication is becoming an integral part of our everyday lives, we must establish ethical rules of conduct for people who think that just because they are anonymous, they can attack, slander, and libel anyone they don't agree with. We don't have a grasp on how to enforce social order in cyberspace but clearly, we have to do something.

I have tracked several stories about people managing websites (businesses) and having their credibility undermined by 'gossip'. Malicious gossip that was intended to punish the owner for some crime committed against the supposed victim. They lost their businesses. Over one person starting a blog that accused them of god-only-knows-what. One case in Florida (as I recall) awarded six million dollars to the business owner because of a libelous blog! Sure, that was an outrageous award that the blog owner could never pay but it stands as a warning to people that the Internet is shared social space no different than your local community. You cannot walk into the library and insult, harass and demean the librarian without getting arrested. Why should you be able to do that in cyber communities?

On the Internet, it's harder to discern between fact and fiction. It can take years to recover from something like this. I know because it happened before and it took several years to restore our credibility. Our best defense is to stop ignoring the aggression hoping it will go away and stand up for what is right and ethical. How was that for a Tuesday afternoon essay?  =big grin=

Luv,
CZ
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 03:39:47 PM by CZBZ »
“The moment a woman comes home to herself, the moment she knows that she has become a person of influence, an artist of her life, a sculptor of her universe, a person with rights and responsibilities who is respected and recognized, the resurrection of the world begins.” ~Joan Chittister
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