The more I learn...the more I realise how frightening it must be to be an N

[JennyWren]

Well....I have been doing more reading about Ns and why they behave in the bizarre ways they do...and why they can`t just bl**dy well listen...and why they have to blame everyone else for everything.....and blah-de-blah-de-blah. And the more I unearth to myself about N-minds and the way they are trapped in their own N-reality of fear and delusion and paranoia....I find myself looking at NH with pity and sorrow. Can`t do a thing about it. But there it is.

What a waste of precious life. What a maddening impossible thing to have to witness. You can see how wildly warped they are....and you can do nothing. NOTHING! I hate not being able to work out ways round things. There is ALWAYS a way. Except this time there isn`t. For the first time ever ever EVER. I can`t do a thing. I can`t budge NH an inch. I can`t get make it better. I`m going to bed. Just wanted a quick rave before the nightmares!!!

[Legs]

Well, please for the love of all that's holy, please do expound on this. If they don't have a conscience or empathy or human understanding, then how bad can it really BE for them. PLEASE convince me they are miserable 'cos this whole thing has caused me to go around the bend. (that's straight into Crazytown, if you're wondering)

Seriously, I think just recently I have realized I'm never going to get over this or past it through it, so any little crumb you can throw my way to convince me that somehow, their lies are miserable, then please do toss. Except you are probably asleep right now.

Legs who is overwhelmed by this financial crap.......I positively HATE numbers

[JennyWren]

Oooooh...no.....AAAARGHHH!!!....NO....Ignore me.

I`m doing that thing again. I`m thinking how I would feel if I were in an N-ish head. But if i were in an N-ish head and feeling fear and so forth I wouldn`t go and beat the emotional cr*p out of everyone else.

(I did go to bed...but the pre-sleep alpha-waves SCREAMED "NO....you stupid pea-brain....you`ve done it again...Ns do not think like that." Bottom line is that I just can`t get my head round it. It doesn`t make any blasted sense.

Still frustrated that I can`t do a damned thing about it. But not feeling so soppy now.

Sorry Legs....go back to your rotten spiteful numbers...they will make more sense than I am tonight.

[rossignolchante]

and the way they are trapped in their own N-reality of fear and delusion and paranoia...
What a waste of precious life.

You know Jenny, I have felt the same way.  Maybe because of being very empathetic, I had those feelings of great sadness for the person my exNbf could have been, if whatever that happened to him as a child hadn't occurred.

But then I also had to remind myself that he has been an adult for much longer now, and has chosen not to take any responsibility for his disorder, even after repeated hurts inflicted on others.

I think he did undergo severe stress when his double life scam was upended, and both me and OW left him on the spot.  He claimed that he wasn't able to sleep at night, and that he was depressed, while telling me that the reason he didn't break up with me or her was that he had a kind heart, and didn't want to hurt us.  I lashed into him on that one, telling him that he was NOT DEPRESSED and that I've worked and known depressed people and they don't have a single good thing to say about themselves.  This is surely a foreign concept to him. lol.  But I'm sure he experienced extreme anxiety as his "stability" was taken away from him in one fell swoop.

So even though I feel sad about what happened to make him like he is, now I must judge him based on his actions, and know that I can never trust or respect him again.  But I totally get where you are coming from, feeling that it must be an awful way to live, and what a waste. 

[confused]

Uh uh. Noooooo. No.

I'm not of the opinion that these creatures deserve my attention, or compassion, and that any occasional feelings of sympathy for my X NPD/BPD bf are misguided.

In my experience, (many, if not all of) these guys are monsters, who should be avoided... 

for our own sanity and health.



My X has had MANY MANY opportunities to turn his life around (including my PAYING for a therapist for him---ARGH!) without ANY real apparent remorse on his part, for the torment that he inflicted on me and every other person who dared love him.

[NewWings4MeNow]

Jenny,

To confused's point, as you're reading and learning about how different an N/P's mindset and wiring really is, if you have the stomach for it extend your search and scan a bit on some police/law enforcement/criminal minds psych sites.  You'll find verifying, and alarming, parallels.

This suggestion isn't meant to go into a dangeously black place, to throw up flags or suggest anything about N/Ps all being hard-over only in one smidge of the spectrum.  Not so. 

John Edwards, Arnold, to name two of gazillions ....  Behaviors that go beyond societal norms but that are so well hidden/padded/protected by loyal lieutenants in webs of such conscious deceptions and plans that keep them just this side of illegal -- usually.  Or not ....  Lack of conscience about implications of harm to others and a relentless drive to make simple things warpedly complicated and unworkable, to make simple truths filled with motive to gain power over.

I don't think it's frightening to be an N/P.  I think it's frightening to deal with them and to see, on their faces, how utterly unafraid and unimpacted they are as they inflict.  I think it's sad, tragic and grievous to be a marginal N/P who knows they're not like everybody else and who floats back and forth between being caring/empathetic and utterly hardened/sadistic.  It's THOSE guys who are the most unpredictable, to me, and who endanger the most people because they're just floating within the general population, undetected by many and scanning for their next targets for whatever.  Kinda like the matrix pasty boys.

NewWings4MeNow

[SusyP14]

Well, please for the love of all that's holy, please do expound on this. If they don't have a conscience or empathy or human understanding, then how bad can it really BE for them. PLEASE convince me they are miserable 'cos this whole thing has caused me to go around the bend. (that's straight into Crazytown, if you're wondering)

Legs who is overwhelmed by this financial crap.......I positively HATE numbers

See if this helps ... short ...5 minutes ...

http://blog.thenarcissistinyourlife.com/2011/05/29/the-narcissists-psychological-emptiness.aspx?ref=rss

[MoreMyself]

No, no, no.  I bought into that for the first decade of marriage.  My NXH was an abused child, abandoned by his birth mother who actually pushed him out the door at age 4 along with his suitcase and left him standing there waiting for bio Dad to collect him.  She wouldn't see him again by her choice for 12 years.  His stepmother drank and locked him in the basement, his father womanised and partied and ignored him and his GM elevated him to a little prince (she told me she did it to compensate so he wouldn't be 'all mixed up'.  Her treatment just confused him even more and really messed him up). 

BUT.  We all grow up.  We all become adults and get to make our own choices.  The N for whatever reason remains emotionally undeveloped but they still make choices. Their choices almost always involve taking advantage of other people for their own purposes.  Feeling sorry for them just sets us up to continue to give them supply which feeds their behaviours.  The best thing anyone can ever do for oneself is to walk away and feel no sympathy for them. Having observed my NXH for 30 years, I believe he is happy with who he is, and sometimes when he 'wins' over other people he's absolutely delighted with himself.  Much more so than a normie.   

And might I just add that when I heard that my NXH's aunt (in her 70s) carrying on about the awful childhood NXH endured (he was in his 50s at the time), I felt really angry.  He is no longer a little boy, but a man who has gone on to live a selfish life where he mostly gets his own way.  What a load of crap to be continuing to treat him like it's all excusable due to inadequate parenting.  When does it end?  If his aunt lives to be 100 and he is 80, will she still be treating him like a 6 year old and heaping sympathy on him, and excusing his behaviours?  And how utterly ridiculous that will be! 

[bellelang83]

John Edwards, Arnold, to name two of gazillions ....  Behaviors that go beyond societal norms but that are so well hidden/padded/protected by loyal lieutenants in webs of such conscious deceptions and plans that keep them just this side of illegal -- usually. 
NewWings4MeNow

I just looked into the news article today detailing the fraud John Edwards has been charged with and you're right NewWings, I have read about these sorts of people all the time but in the past, I wouldn't have bat an eyelid at what the underlying connections might be between this and say someone like Bernie Madoff. Now all these seemingly innocuous pieces are coming together to form a greater picture to this disjointed NPD puzzle. And it is very much a process of pulling the blinders off and making sense of this entire pathology. Its very much an awakening process. It's a liberating process albiet somewhat frightening at the same time. Robert Hare (world expert on Ps) makes note of the fact that Ps often use language in very discrepant ways. In one article he mentions that their limbic brain register emotional words in a different way to that of normal people. They tend to have neutral value on emotional words. He hypothesized that it could be the reason they don't process emotions the same way we do. He says its good to look at the way Ns/Ps use words because that gives a real insight into their pathology. John Edwards when he had been convicted on 6 accounts of fraud and was asked to say something after his indictment in regards to using $840,000 to cover up an extra marital affair he had, said ''I did not break the law and I never ever thought that I was breaking the law,'' Hare says, since words are mere semantics to them they can often sort words in an arrangement to suit their purposes whilst riding roughshod over the actual emotional content of what is being said. In this case, his extreme denial comes across as mere delusion but when its expressed articulately by a man in a pin striped suit, nobody dares question the apparent contradiction in what is being said. My exNBf always loved the suit as well, he always said it was the perfect disguise for shoplifting.

[JennyWren]

Hi everyone. Having "slept on it"......for a bit anyway....I wake this morning with a different perspective.

I had spent the day yesterday researching about how personality disorders can have their roots in the inability to reconcile the two "object representations" where a little child will store "good stuff" and "scary stuff" about their care-giver. In NHs case....his raving Nmother. It was a huge revelation to me....because NH has never been diagnosed or even assessed for any psychological issue. If I had ever suggested it you would have heard the disdainful laughter from Jupiter. For I am the one with all the "issues" in his mind. I have struggled therefore to commit my mind to the idea that he is indeed dangerously Narcissistic.....let alone with the full blown personality disorder.

I still am very aware that I have no right to label him up. But here`s the thing (I repeat myself here as I mentioned this on another thread - apologies!) My NH speaks glowingly of his mother when he was a child. He says her "love" was a wonderful protective warm place. But he also speaks of her REAL character which has come out over the years....not just towards me...but to his non-N brother for example....and when he does so, he NEVER refers to her as "Mummy". Always by her Christian name. He sees her as two separate entities...and says so quite openly. He says he choses to keep his happy memories of his mother in one place...and consider her spiteful arrogant behaviour as a different person.

I think therefore, that yesterday I began to see someone in my NH who is very ill. I began to see him as having no choice but to be such a self-centred fear-driven piece of torturing sickness. And a brick wall that is unshiftable. I KNOW he told his "therapist" (Who was actually a marriage guidance counsellor he had tried to recruit to trap me into having him back) I know he told her that he clings onto the "happy" memories of his mother...and that was his "safe place" in his mind. And that he told her how evil she had been towards me as the woman who had stolen her darling youngest son.  All the Counsellor could respond with was that he should have broken free of her control years ago....and he needed to just take that step now, as a grown man. Through this Counsellor....his mother got all the blame for our marriage going wrong....and me of course. But how could she know any better. I would not go near the Marriage Counselling sessions because I instinctively knew I would be eaten alive. I was completely immersed in the "fog" at the time.

So I guess what I am saying here is that my understanding of my NH took a quantum leap yesterday.....threw all the puzzle pieces in the air....and while they were there...my default empathy/compassion feelings kicked in. And I thought about how HORRIBLE it would be to be cut off from other humans so far that you can trample all over them and not understand or care.

I apologise if what I wrote yesterday was upsetting or appeared crazy! I really am struggling with this stuff. I have researched Ps a little a while back....and found that NH has a terrifying amount of Charasmatic P characteristics. I had always thought of a Psychopath as a mass-murdering power-crazed nut-case. And would never have considered NH even vaguely a P-ish character.

But here`s the thing....I am a tenacious problem solver. I want to find ways round things if I can`t solve them. And I just can`t. The more I look, the worse it gets. And I just want to hide under the duvet. I suppose I do still pity NH in a way....but not in the soppy empathetic way I lurched into when I started this post. More as a waste of human life. And a waste of my (and your!) time.

Thankyou for your responses everyone...and for being gentle with me!

[Legs]

See if this helps ... short ...5 minutes ...

http://blog.thenarcissistinyourlife.com/2011/05/29/the-narcissists-psychological-emptiness.aspx?ref=rss

Ok, I know I'm just about totally loopy after being up for three days trying to do a year long expense sheet in Excel (which I had not used in over a year) for Attorney Girl. She wants it at the crack 'o dawn for our hearing tomorrow. I just this minute found the folder of my credit card receipts. The cats had hidden it from me and then sometime in the night got up and put it on THE TOP OF THE FRIDGE!!!!!BAD CATS!!!

But, I can't see the video at the link you gave me, SusyP. Probably my vision is so clouded by pages of numbers that I have gone blind. And I HATE, HATE even "simple" math. I have number dyslexia and reverse and flop numbers all the time. It is agony for me to have to do a simple bank balance. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, poor me.


Please wish me well tomorrow. If that Judge does not give me spousal support for the duration of this hearing, I will be moving in with smp and living in her huge garage and starting my own leather wearing, motorcycle riding, dominatrix on speed club and making my living in a whole different way. I hope she lives close to her state capitol so I get plenty of politicians and attorneys as my clients.


Legs the Loopy

[Imogene]

You're fine, Jen.  No need to apologize for trying to make sense of what you're been through.  As long as you're not blaming yourself, I also don't see any harm in throwing compassion your husband's way.  Narcissists are MISERABLE when they aren't getting supply and when they have to detach from their primary sources.  They have no inner resources to draw on.  That is to be pitied, just like any other handicap in my opinion.  It doesn't change my view that your husband thoughtlessly abandoned you and your girls and refuses to listen and is planning to use the court to make a case against your parenting.  It doesn't change yours, either, right?  That's all that matters.  I think you're doing a fantastic job understanding who he is and what he thinks.  I do believe it's helpful.  And by the way--that business of referring to his mother in two separate ways.  I think it's called splitting.  He probably split you off as well and turned you into the bad mother.  It's all he can do.  Emotionally, he's about six years old.  Weird stuff. 

[monique94550]

Imogene,

They teach us in AA that resentments only harm us, not the people we hold resentments against.

So if I can have compassion for the Ns in my life due to the fact that they are doomed to never advance spiritually or emotionally in this lifetime, while at the same time being realistic and keeping myself safe from them, then that's probably the healthiest path for me to walk.

My AA sponsor suggested I thank God every day for the Ns in my life, because they are the reason I'm learning self-love in this lifetime.

Monique

[confused]

I understand that feeling compassion for someone who has abused me is supposed to allow me to further heal, but, to tell the truth, I've been doing that my whole life, and it hasn't been working for me, or--as far as I can tell--for them either.

It seems to contribute to my pretending that my 'relationships" with these people were OK, that there were just a few "misunderstandings" etc. This is like something my X would tell me (or other people) about what happened in our "relationship."  It's time for me to start HONORING myself and what I KNOW to be true.

In my experience, it hasn't helped the Ns in  my life either. I agree with you, MoreMyself. It's like enabling.

My X also had a horrible childhood, and for most of my contact with him, I DID excuse (or at least explain) his behavior with that, but the fact is, I had a horrible childhood too!

[Imogene]

I don't think it's supposed to allow you to heal, confused.  I never believed that, nor did I believe in this business of having to forgive.  In my opinion, anyone who tells you how you have to heal is shifting the blame on to your shoulders and re-victimizing you, because they are telling you that you're deficient--which was already the narcissist's message.  And for sure, compassion is not going to help the narcissist one iota, unless they think it is going to buy them a time share or get them laid. 

All I'm saying is that if you can feel compassion without hating yourself, then there is nothing wrong with this, and you have no reason to apologize.   

[monique94550]

Yes, confused, the key for me is to be able to balance compassion with realism!  That these people are NOT SAFE, and I need to avoid them like the plague.  It took me some time to understand that acceptance doesn't mean I approve, or that acceptance means I continue to be vulnerable to them.

But to Imogene's point, I'm not sure I understand.  If my car was hit by another car, and it wasn't my fault, I'm still the one who has to go to the hospital, take the medication, have the surgery, and do the physical therapy if I want to heal.  The problem was caused by someone else, but the solution is my responsibility.  It's not about placing the blame on me for the problem.  But, darn it, I do have the responsibility to heal if I want to live my life fully again (and hopefully better than before!).

I'm not sure if we're talking about semantics here.  Forgiving is not forgetting.  I don't advocate forgetting, but forgiving sets me free, and that's what I want is joy and freedom.

Monique, Hippie Girl

Monique

[Imogene]

Monique, my point is just that this is an individual choice.  For instance, I was on one other board a few years ago with intelligent, self-aware women like the ones here, but there the women had formed a strong consensus that No Contact was essential to healing.  I think it can be helpful, but I also know from personal experience that it can freeze the situation full strength, leaving you to deal with all the emotions at a later time.  But maybe that's what you need to do!

I don't understand the forgiveness thing in a traditional sense.  I have my own concept of forgiveness which is empathy post-detachment.  But your perspective on all this is admirable, and I respect it quite a bit.   

[notakennedy]

I do understand, JennyWren, how in the process of coming to terms with the gradual breakdown of marriage to an N, one struggles to understand them better, to rationlise the irrational, to see the good not only the bad in them.  The fact that they have such distorted views of themselves can make you feel sorry for them - that they aren't able to form healthy relationships, that they appear maladjusted and deeply insecure. There's certainly no shame in that, it simply illustrates your own sensitivity and ability to forgive and ultimately move on to a better space yourself. I don't mean negate what you have been through or are going through or excuse them their behaviour, but simply to allow you to process in the best way towards a personal healing. I guess it's individual, and it's about what you need to do, which has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome for NH as we all understand our empathy is unlikely to bring about change in them.  So in actuality, its not about them at all. I totally agree with Monique, to forgive is one thing, but we should not suppress or forget where we have been - in the hope that we will never find ourselves in anything like the same situation again, and that somewhere down the track we will realise what the experiences have taught us about ourselves and the wisdom and strength and humanity which we have gained as the result. 

[JennyWren]

My NH has helped me enormously today by sending two of his very special e-mails within the space of 2 hours blaming me for his having to take court action to make his daughters see him. (They have told me he will have to render them unconscious before they will go anywhere with him!)

I had sent last e-mail ever from me -I have had ENOUGH- saying that as he was mis-understanding, mis-representing or not listening to anything I said, I would therefore welcome any further communication to be via my lawyer.

His first reply stated that everybody knows that breakdowns in communication are always a two-way thing. (aka - my fault)

The second just rambled on about how legal action was his only option and that I had started it. He really is 6years old isn`t he?

So my compassion for him is evaporating pretty quick. The pity is still there though. He is such a complete baby. But thinks he is so superior.

I suppose everyone will have different ways of dealing with their image of the Ns in their lives. And for me anyway....I have just found out that my ability to feel compassion is directly proportional to how much contact I have with NH. There is so much of a toxic trail left behind after reading NHs messages you could generate electricity off me at the moment. I am so wound up, because I can`t get him to hear...or even acknowledege what I am saying....which is essentially "Please give your daughters time, and hear their voices".  And all he can do is say "Well, you`re not listening to me then double with-a-cherry-on-the-top!"

I want to re-name this thread....the more words that spew out of my NH, the more I want to superglue his lips together, and sew his hands up his sleeve so he can`t type. Or make him wear big pink fluffy mittens.

I have learnt a lot from considering all the different ideas on forgiveness and compassion. It`s such a personal thing I guess. And for me at least unsettlingly fluid right now. Thankyou for your patience.  I am struggling right now, and really appreciate your thoughts. This "It`s not my fault...it`s yours...live with it" attitude has been the constant weapon of choice for NH. He is wielding it at me, but although it isn`t making me feel to blame any more.....I do feel physically sick and shaky. A real physical reaction in breaking free of his emotional control.

Trying to keep chin up!
Jen

[practicaljude]

But here`s the thing....I am a tenacious problem solver. I want to find ways round things if I can`t solve them. And I just can`t. The more I look, the worse it gets. And I just want to hide under the duvet. I suppose I do still pity NH in a way....but not in the soppy empathetic way I lurched into when I started this post. More as a waste of human life. And a waste of my (and your!) time.

Suzy – Thanks for the audio clip…she says it all, doesn’t she?

Jenny,
No need to apologize for feeling empathetic.  Being the empathetic, problem solver you are is your beauty, your strength, and a portion of your internal light.  Your light helps to see the ‘big picture’, answers all questions and helps to provide closure; your inner peace.

Struggling with being a problem solver and always finding resolution is part of the process.  Internalizing I was powerless to “fix’ him and powerless to share, bargain, and negotiate with him was totally devastating.  I pulled from my education, my experience, and my resources and nothing seemed to work and I did this for a long time. 

The more I read, the sicker I felt.  I’ve always said I needed to take what I read in “small doses” because the reality of their unconscious processes is something that twisted my thinking inside out.  For years I worked with depressed patients who were helped with therapy and/or antidepressants. For years I worked with psychotic patients who were helped with antipsychotics. And, for years I took some pride in knowing I had the verbal/physical/behavioral skills to help those with psychiatric problems.  Then, I fell in love with a narcissist and he broke me; he gave me the personal experience I wouldn’t find in any book.

Sometime back I came to the forum and apologized, too. I apologized for not seeing things clearly.  I remember saying, “I should know better.”  I apologized for attempting to be of ‘his mind’ so I could understand him better and help him.  The beauty of this is it takes learning about his mind (in small doses) to learn we were not wrong.  Our actions and reactions are based in reality and we are not wrong. It’s nothing to apologize for and yet I do understand how it does make way for more grieving.

We are powerless to change them, but we hold all the personal power to change ‘us’ - Not change who we are but change how we see ourselves in relation to the narcissist. As you said, it seems on the surface it was all a waste of your precious time but as time goes on you’ll use your problem solving skills to help yourself heal from the devastation. And, as you read and things appear more bleak, please know your light shines brightly, Jenny, and it’s guiding you to more wisdom, confidence and inner peace. 

 
Jude         

[NewWings4MeNow]

This is to bellelang's post above.

The John Edwards quote you posted is a prime example of N/Ps "defining reality", or "redefining reality" to their purpose.  They think that if they say something loud enough, to enough people and long enough, that if they exhaust folks mentally and verbally around themselves, that people will cave in to their new truths. 

It's the classic "emperor's new clothes" syndrome. 

Psychopaths in suits. 

And yes, I've also read, here and elsewhere, that they process emotional words differently and don't attach the historical, loyalty, loss and value meanings to them that others do.  First time I experienced anything like this was when d was one, XNH had fought, I packed the car and got as far as the end of the driveway then went back home.  I walked into the house and XNH was utterly emotionally untouched.  Unreactive.  No upset, no worry, no sense of loss at all.  A portent ....

What you've read is exactly why I focus so much on analyses of the words/phrases folks post on WoN that their N/Ps have used -- because they select carefully, they tell us who they really are if we're really listening for meaning and intention, and
do/say little to nothing "by accident". 

Quite an eye-opener.

NewWings4MeNow

[fdh]

I have  no idea if it is frightening to be  my exNH. He seems happy enough. He recently married the woman he left our family for. But too, since leaving to live with her, he has been devoid of all emotions towards our children. He says he has zero desire to see me, speak to me, or think about me.

I dunno... 24 years of marriage, kids, ... I truly thought things were pretty great. But, this was  MY marriage. It very obvious was not the same marriage he was in  ! . I think "separate realities" or "side by side universe" might be applicable. 

What seems most apparent to me, is that I got the good end of the deal here. I believe I had a great marriage, to a man who was really a very wonderful husband, and very good father. At least until the boys hit their teens (note here: this is when boys begin to significantly differentiate from their dad, and most assuredly, do not provide too much "N-supply").  Once he met his "soulmate/cosmic-twin/mirror-image" in the form of an  (adoring single woman), 15 years younger than moi, he turned into the savage  from plaNet N.

In our 3 sessions of "divorce therapy" (most certainly it was not marriage therapy), NH was unable to recall ANY good things about our marriage. None...   zero.. zippo. But, he was very clear, whatever it was he was feeling, was due to my  innate awfulness. HOW can a spouse, and the mother of ones' children be viewed as "rotten to the core" (what he said I was).

My brain does not work like this. AT ALL! I am the queen of shades of gray, giving people the benefit of the doubt, and not sweating the small stuff. So, my life tends to be pretty sweet.  For whatever the reason, exNH has become kind of a parody of an OCD, somewhat emasculated  , victimized  , whatever he is. Which is pretty much the opposite of who I knew him to be. I think of him now as the "anti-H" ... and I figure if this is what his  (soulmate) is attracted to. Which is good.  She  is most welcome to  him.  And I think they are actually pretty well matched    +  = 

For me,  hell would be a place where you believe you hate  people you once loved. Double hell  is when you hate people who loved you. So, I honestly do wish  much happiness in his life. Just not at my expense, or as the recipient of his .

Mostly, I know  is on his unique  . I do not anticipate being by his side!

( the new icons!)

[JennyWren]

Dear Practicaljude,

Your post has me rushing for the kleenex! That you have understood so well and astutely verbalised my process has helped immeasurably. I am genuinely inspired by your words and heartened that my instinct to understand and problem solve CAN help me through ultimately. Not by altering NHs behaviour at all, but by healing myself...understanding and moving forward. I know I have a long way to go, and some treacherous mountains to climb and bottomless valleys to peek into as far as I dare. But I have my metaphorical hiking boots on and a large thermos flask of determination in my backpack. And your thoughts have lightened my load Practicaljude. I am truly grateful. I`ve gone all poetic and symbollic again....I have an unfailing tendency to stride off into constant analogy when emotional.

With huge respect,
Jen 

[JennyWren]

Oh fdh, you have been very very busy! "   +  =  " That is quote of the decade!!!

My daughter was struggling with algebra yesterday. But this is top notch stuff.

How mind-spinningly vile to have your world turned upside down and inside out and have to pick up the pieces.

In ellobarating upon your most excellent equation, I would only say ( +  ) X  =                 

[honeybearII]

You know what, Jenny?  There was a long time, even while going through the D&D and being dumped on by my NH, when I truly felt sorry for him.  I thought he just didn't UNDERSTAND what he was throwing away - 30 years of marriage, a good family life, great friends, a great job, the respect of many, many people.  I thought that he must be SUFFERING some kind of internal breakdown and if I or ANYONE could just get through to him, he could change.

Then, during one of the many discussions we had during this time he said to me, "I guess I really ought to try to find out why I SET OUT TO DESTROY the one person who stuck by me and loved me in spite of all the crap".  That person was ME.

But DID HE TRY TO FIND OUT???  Absolutely not.  Nothing was ever done and in fact it was a devastating revelation to me that what he had done and continued to do to me was DELIBERATE.  He was not acting out of some "inner drive" that caused him to do and say the things he did.  It was thought-out and deliberate.

At that point, it was an eye-opener for me because I had NEVER seen him as deliberately evil in his actions.  I thought he was being driven by some inner compulsion he didn't understand.  But that one statement made me finally and totally "get it".  HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE HAD DONE AND WAS DOING AND DID IT ANYWAY.

Compassion for him?  Nah.  He just turned around, moved on, and life is a again a big bowl of cherries for him.  Good for him.  As for me?  I don't waste a second of compassion for him because he SIMPLY DOESN'T CARE.  The hurt, the emotional devastation, the break-up of several families, the loss of job and friends and respect?  He just walked away and started over and all the new people in his life think he is better than chips.

I save my compassion for people who deserve it.
Honey