Am I the only guy here?

[zero]

I just realized it seems like I'm the only guy here.  Not that that's bad or anything, but how can that be just by coincidence?

If I'm wrong please let me know. 

[Legs]

Hey Zero,
 There have been and may still be some guys here....post away.

Legs

[Imogene]

That's so funny.  I was going to ask if you were a guy when you started your last thread, but it just sounded. . . wrong somehow. 

To answer your question, my impression is that all the oft-posting members are female.  But I saw someone with the screen name Andre post in the bibliography section, and he also sounds like a guy.  There are probably other guys who sign on but don't end up commenting much.

It's not a coincidence.  It's also not by policy.  It's a self-selecting population, would be my guess.
 

[betterdays]

Had no idea you are a male.  Post away, there are women here whose N's are female, too.  Andre sounds like a guy.

[zero]

Legs... of course lol I never meant to imply that I felt unwelcome or anything, or even that it makes any difference to me one way or the other.  It just seemed strange but not in a suspicious way. 

Imogene - That is funny.  What gave you the idea to ask before you decided not to?

Also I'm not sure I completely understand why it would be a self-selecting population (though obviously it IS lol).  I mean, it's true that more males end up N's so there would be more females here from a spousal perspective... but you'd think with a more or less even m/f split among ACONs the total percentage of narc victims wouldn't be so lopsided.  Oh well, like I said the reality obviously is what it is; I'm just thinking out loud here. 

[zero]

Had no idea you are a male.

Yeah but I also seem to be one of the relatively few ACONs here, as opposed to a parter or ex with an N as most here also seem to be.  My father and both my grandmothers are/were N's but the rest of my family is totally oblivious to the whole thing.

[betterdays]

My impression is that many ACONS went on to marry N's, and it is the N's that are the subject of their posts.  I feel in the minority sometimes because my family is not N, but we have a hereditary health condition that caused me to be unable to function at full speed. Until my diagnosis came at age 41, I was trying all the wrong things to feel better, i.e., hard exercise, vegetarianism, forcing myself to keep a schedule that was killing me.  One of the N books I read listed vulnerable populations, and "chronically ill" was there.  Not all of us fit models set forth in the literature. If I could have left sooner, I would have. There are others here who also do not have N FOOS.

So, even though I do not know what it is like to have an N parent, others' posts help me understand my daughter's experience.  You may find it beneficial to be here, since the effective ways to deal with NPD are the same for any N.

[monique94550]

Welcome zero.  As it was said before, "Post away!"  And hopefully soon we'll be encouraging you to change your screen name from zero to at least a positive number!!   

Monique

[zero]

My impression is that many ACONS went on to marry N's, and it is the N's that are the subject of their posts.  I feel in the minority sometimes because my family is not N, but we have a hereditary health condition that caused me to be unable to function at full speed. Until my diagnosis came at age 41, I was trying all the wrong things to feel better, i.e., hard exercise, vegetarianism, forcing myself to keep a schedule that was killing me.  One of the N books I read listed vulnerable populations, and "chronically ill" was there.  Not all of us fit models set forth in the literature. If I could have left sooner, I would have. There are others here who also do not have N FOOS.

So, even though I do not know what it is like to have an N parent, others' posts help me understand my daughter's experience.  You may find it beneficial to be here, since the effective ways to deal with NPD are the same for any N.

That's a good point and I can't believe it didn't cross my mind as I was writing my other reply.  Even within my own family, I can see that the "has partNer" and "has NFOO" labels are far from mutually exclusive.

Do you happen to remember which book it was btw?  I've had some theories about this (vulnerable populations) myself but I haven't seen it addressed in any book so far.

[CZBZ]

Hi Zero,

There's a few men on our forum right now. But not many! As far as ACONs go, we haven't divided our forum into specific categories like a section for ACONs and one for Daughters of N-mothers, etc. etc. It works best, in my opinion, to keep everyone on the same General Board. A lot of time, in fact most of the time, people don't realize their Family-of-Origin was narcissistic. We learn from each other on the board.

Maybe other men will feel more comfortable on the forum if they find out another man has dared enter the WoN kitchen.  We certainly talk about narcissistic females on this forum but you're right, the majority of active posters are women. Usually on N-forums, the majority of posters are women but it's true, WoN doesn't have as many men as some forums do.

Have you been on other narcissism forums? Did you notice a gender ratio difference? Even on a forum dealing with the Midlife Crisis, the vast majority of posters were women. Any ideas about why that might be? We have another site called The WoN Connection that features research about Tending and Befriending: women's response to stress. So it has seemed natural for women to create online communities so they could 'tend and befriend' during crises. That might be the idea behind self-selection---that women form groups to counter the isolation and anxiety.

Anyway, Welcome to WoN, Zero. I look forward to reading your 'story'. What brought you to WoN?  Your father or grandmothers or did you have an adult relationship that didn't work out?


Hugs,
CZ

[inflatedheart]

Please keep posting. It is good to have other experiences here!

[zero]

Anyway, Welcome to WoN, Zero. I look forward to reading your 'story'. What brought you to WoN?  Your father or grandmothers or did you have an adult relationship that didn't work out?

My first post on WoN: http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7991.msg33918.html#msg33918 tells the story at least somewhat.  My investigation into my father's behavior was what led me to start researching narcissism several months ago and soon after all the pieces started falling into place about a lot of other peculiar things I'd noticed in my family.  Sad as it is to say I haven't even been in a relationship yet, but that may be for the best as I still have some healing to do before I'm ready to BE in a functional relationship.  My brother is my dad's golden child/enabler still after all this time and I can already tell how it's affected his relationships so far... he seems to subconsciously gravitate toward women who cheat on him and otherwise take advantage of him.  At first I didn't make anything of that, but now (like so many other things) it makes perfect sense.

[zero]

I never considered to stop posting here lol.. I don't know where people keep getting that idea.    Thanks for the encouragement nonetheless.

[inflatedheart]

I never considered to stop posting here lol.. I don't know where people keep getting that idea.    Thanks for the encouragement nonetheless.

Haha, I guess we assumed that you're uncomfortable or that you'd want some male camaraderie? Sorry that we jumped to conclusions.

[Imogene]

What made me think you were probably male is the way you spoke about your mother in the thread about going NC with the rest of your family.  I decided not to ask you about it because you have been sort of self-protective in your posts (just my impression, maybe inaccurate) and it felt wrong to interrogate you.

betterdays is right, many of us are ACONs and spouses/former spouses of narcissists.  A lot of us are facing the break-up of long-term marriages, which is a grueling experience, especially when children and nasty divorce settlement issues are involved.  I could not have made it through this ordeal without posting here everyday. 

You and I have a lot in common as ACONs.  My brother was the golden child, and my same-sex parent (mother) is the narcissistic one.  I was NC off and on with my parents and am still NC with my brother.  I just don't post as often about those experiences, except when giving advice to someone younger than myself (generally) who is just going through the experience of figuring out why their childhood was so awful and they have such a low opinion of themselves.

[MoreMyself]

Welcome, zero.  I was on another forum a few years ago where there were a few men posting who were dealing with wives or ex-wives who were narcissistic.  It was great to get their point of view as some of the issues are a bit different.  Children, for instance.  If they had kids together the main issue was usually how to protect the kids from being used/abused by the N mother, or how to get more access, etc.  There were still more women posting than men but that seems to apply to a lot of these forums were issues are very emotional.  Maybe some men feel uncomfortable with revealing emotions or discussing their feelings?

[JennyWren]

Hi again Zero. I knew were male, but didn`t mention it because it didn`t seem important or relevant. There was just "something" about the first post I read of yours. It did strike me at the time, and about other WoN members too, that the way people write can tell you all sorts of stuff about them.

And then I got to thinking about how much of what you learn about people comes from the content of a verbal exchange, and how much from the visual stuff, tone of voice, eye contact and so on.

AND THEN I got to thinking about how when my NH writes stuff down it is grammatically horrific, to the point where it doesn`t even make sense...and the more you read it the less sense it makes. So he must rely on the body language stuff or something.

AND THEN I got to thinking that I really should just quit it with thinking about stuff so much.


I have also wondered, not only why males are scarce, but about the nature of the WoN members, in that I wonder if NFOOs create...or Ns select for partners... certain kinds of people. Often those who think a lot. Sadly. OR...is it that the WoN forum selects for those kinds of people? Very interesting...but I have no answers. Only more questions.

[Imogene]

Oh my God, Jen.

This is also true of my husband.  He has a PhD degree and an important academic career, but his writing makes no sense.  In particular the transitions are bizarre non-sequitors.  When he was starting out I used to edit his papers and help him write his grant proposals (this is one of the things that makes my blood pressure sky rocket just to think about it), and it was tough going.  I tutored for years to help pay the bills in graduate school, and he is the kind of tutee I would positively DREAD having.  Frankly, the only writers as draining as him were ESL students whose original languages were Asian.  I mean, I would work sometimes on his introductory pages for HOURS.  Sometimes a single sentence would take an hour to unravel.

I never thought that would be a point of commonality to share on a narcissist board.  But you know, I bet it has something to do with their self-absorption.  They know what they're saying, and they don't give a damn about communicating it to anyone else.  By the way, he's also an embarrassingly poor public speaker (he thinks he is great) and terribly tone deaf.

Zero, sorry to hijack your thread! 

[too_many]

Imogene - So I take it your husband has no interest in literature?  I had been wondering... That's always been my rule for myself in (possibly!) avoiding an N - if you don't get literature, you aren't going to get me, but it hasn't exactly led to romantic success either.  Everyone has always told me it's a ridiculous idea/standard, but having learned about narcissism, I think I've gone back to it... I can have friends who don't get it, but a lifetime partner??

[zero]

Imogene - So I take it your husband has no interest in literature?  I had been wondering... That's always been my rule for myself in (possibly!) avoiding an N - if you don't get literature, you aren't going to get me

You're gonna need more than that.  My ndad for one reads quite a bit.  Not that I've ever tried to gauge his actual comprehension of the books he reads.

[JennyWren]

too_many - My NH has NO interest in any kind of literature. The only books he ever reads are from the "humour" section. Other than that it is strictly car magazines. I tried buying him novels etc for gifts...but gave up. He got bored and said they were too long.

Imogene - that is FREAKY! I had to edit all NHs e-mails and letters for his work. It was so hard to do...because each sentence made no sense in it`s own right. It would SOUND like it should. But it just didn`t . And there was never any logical sequence to the text. I would also end up re-writing from scratch...as once I understood what he wanted to say, it was far easier to start again than fiddle with his word-maze! How strange. I will think some more on that.

(sorry Zero, to go off on a tangent)

[zero]

Often those who think a lot. Sadly. OR...is it that the WoN forum selects for those kinds of people? Very interesting...but I have no answers. Only more questions.

I don't think the Ns go out of their way to select people who think a lot; in my case it was the constant thoughts and persistent research which led me to realize what my dad is in the first place.  If he knew of this I doubt he'd consider any of it desirable, and he's always been generally disapproving and suspicious toward me anyway.  Rather I think they typically choose people who have a large capacity for feeling and reading others' emotions.. so much so that even if they DO think a lot their sense of empathy is strong enough to overpower it.  These people are more likely to keep falling for the Ns elaborate acting jobs and to keep blaming themselves, thinking "I can change him", etc.  My mom is like that.

[zero]

(sorry Zero, to go off on a tangent)

It doesn't bother me.  Tangent away.

[betterdays]

STBXNH wrote a dissertation, but only reads comics and the occasional Dan Brown type novel.  He, too, writes in "word salad", which means nonsense, cliches, and contradictions.  When I asked why he did not write a book about his psych practice, he said, "I've read enough, and I hate writing".   He usually handed me the paper and told me there was an article on thus and such, but when I asked what the gist of it was, he would say he just read the headline.  As far as I can tell, he just kept track of things so he could do what I call cocktail party talk--very superficial.

[JennyWren]

Thanks Zero! - I shall shoot of tangentially in a second, but wanted first to react to your comment :

"Rather I think they typically choose people who have a large capacity for feeling and reading others' emotions.. so much so that even if they DO think a lot their sense of empathy is strong enough to overpower it.  These people are more likely to keep falling for the Ns elaborate acting jobs and to keep blaming themselves, thinking "I can change him", etc.  My mom is like that" .....hmmmmmm.....BIG RED EMBARRASSED FACE! You just described me.

My daughters both feel no real connection with their dad. They say they were never taken in by his Mr Nice Guy act. Every situation is different I know....but I can`t get my head around whether this is because they spotted stuff I didn`t...or if the Mr Nice Guy act was not aimed at them in the same way....or a combination of the two.

From my point of view, "Mr Nice Guy" was exceptionally good at holding me to blame for everything. But it was a double act...because I am rubbish at blaming other people. Even when it is clearly their fault. I think perhaps for children growing up, and who have very contrasting parents....one who is completely un-empathetic...and the other tuned to their feelings....it will make the child look a little harder at the "difficult" parent. I don`t know. I`m just guessing. But I am very glad that Nparents can`t always charm their children as they would like. And that you have understood it Zero.


(I think I will start a new thread about Ns and their crazy inability to write a sentence that has meaning of any kind!....Your thread is too interesting to hi-jack further!)