stop me from going down the "what if" and "if only" trail

[JennyWren]

  See, in my mind my Xgf just needed love and unconditional positive regard to bring her out of her "shell" sort of speak, I convinced myself that I could help her to realize she could trust people and in turn she would open up and be her real self.  I was so empathetic to her FOO issues, her past abuse, etc..  I told myself I was strong enough to handle whatever she could dish out....

Hi Vega_Rising and welcome!!

What you have written here is a pretty good description of my marriage!  Only it took me two decades to work out that it wasn`t gonna happen!!!! The stuff Ns dish out really hurts so deeply. And you may be surprised, as I have been, how incredibly similar people`s experiences of Ns are. You are in the right place to grow and learn, as well as to offer your own insights.

The fog is really a nasty place. But it does clear.

[alatariel]

Thanx for your post, Vega.  It's nice to know I'm not alone in staying around an N for the wrong reasons.  (not that there are any right reasons, but you KWIM)

As a voracious reader with a good memory, I'm a fountain of useless information, quotes and folk sayings.  My ex frieNd used to get mad when she'd be complaining of some "unique" ailment, situation, or emotional state she found herself in and I'd recite a quote or saying about it.  She didn't want to know that other ppl have gone through the same things she did, b/c she was so much more special and important than anyone else.

I, OTOH, love to know that I'm not alone.  I find comfort in the knowledge that someone else has been there, and I'm interested in how they handled it so I can learn to deal with things better or differently.

[Vega_Rising]

Thanks JennyWren!  I'm glad to have found this forum.

Yep, I admit that I was with her for the "wrong" reasons, I have to face some of my codependent/narcissism bs for sure. In my mind I was being self-less, so that she could flourish and grow.  I suppose this wasn't my place to do, I am taking responsibility for that now, I am no innocent victim.

Just a heads up, this could be triggering for some folks.

Alaterial- I too am a voracious reader; however, I "abandoned" my other interests while I was in the relationship. She became my number 1 focus. I feel embarrassed to admit that I became so focused on her.

From the first time I felt that "sting", I tried talking w/ her about it, like normal people do. lol.  I used I-statements, then asked her to clarify, etc. This is usually successful with most people but not w/ her.  When she threw the ball back at me (in an attack), I was so stunned, I froze! I didn't know how to respond. My head was spinning! So confused. What just happened? What did I do wrong? How did I hurt her?

My experience in other relationships taught me that if I explained how the other person's actions/words/ tone of voice affected me, then she would understand me better and we would have a wonderful exchange and the issue would be resolved...la la la
Uh, not happening!
She had a repertoire of retorts such as, "I was just joking." and " you are always blaming me for something" or "I feel like you are attacking me."
 
That's when I knew something was seriously wrong.  It seemed that she didn't care about my feelings.
How did I deal with that....man...I kept reading, I talked to my best friend, I cried a lot, went to therapy, cried more, and kept confronting her on behavior that was hurtful to me. Despite my assertiveness in asking for what I needed/wanted in the relationship, she was crafty and often I capitulated to get the love I craved. 
How humiliating.
Let's just say that I had to fight for every crumb, every shred of respect, recognition, compliment, show of affection.  I felt that she made me earn all of those things. After all, people came to her, not the other way around.
So, I'm not sure if this helps. I hope I didn't overstep my bounds on your thread, just let me know as I am learning the rules here.

Peace,
Vega_Rising

[JennyWren]

, I am no innocent victim.

Hmmmmm!!! Permission to disagree a little smidge???????  Please humour me on this...I`m not trying to ram my thoughts down your throat...it`s just that after relationships with Ns...we are so programmed to be in the wrong and to blame...I think we have to be very careful what we blame ourselves for....and I would just encourage you to consider very objectively your role..and the lack of choices you possibly had.

Obviously, I don`t know you inside out and backwards...but just be very careful before you haul yourself over the coals for being treated in an Nish way by an N.

Ask yourself this Vega_Rising.....if you had been in a relationship with a non-N....would your behaviour be considered worthy of such criticism? And if the N had been in a relationship with someone else...would she have behaved any better?

Just because you loved her and wanted to make your relationship better for you both does not make you wrong. It makes you very normal indeed from where I`m standing.

Anyway....I hope this doesn`t have the sound of someone jumping up and down at you. That`s not my intention.

And double sorry to alatariel for taking your thread on a detour for a bit. 

[Vega_Rising]

Alaterial,
After some more thought on your last post, I have to say that my Xgf did some very similar things in regard to "one-upping" me and other people.  Case in point, her injury (physical or emotional) was always more painful, her illness more debilitating, her day more interesting, her_______more _____ than mine or anyone else's. Constant competition.
 I'm glad that we don't have to put so much energy into that anymore.  Congratz! Go US!

On another note, I don't want to hijack / detour your post any further so I will post up a new thread to respond to Jenny_Wren and continue that conversation there.

Peace,

VR

[betterdays]

I think we are all undeserving  targets, whether it is from our own personality traits, chronic illness that affects your ability to leave, social constructs in our countries, or just plain love and devotion.  Let's not confuse any of that with the ability to con anyone and lie. We are not the problem, although we may have our own problems. 

Some of us do not come from NFOO's and did not have an N r/s before the current snake.  We can all be as different as night and day, an N can figure out how to work not just us, but anyone.  We see it in their other targets. All you have to do is be within striking range. That doesn't mean you are not a human with some flaws.  I simply do not buy that anyone here is a weak mess that plays into this.
 
Also, the more an N can work the system and gain social standing, the less likely you are to find any help, even in a women's shelter or the police.  I know whereof I speak.

I am currently watching N massage yet another female police chief in our area, who has had a traumatic childhood, and is in therapy with him.  One of her support staff is a longtime friend of mine who called to tell me N was coming to the office to say hi to her in the middle of the day.  Kosher for a therapist to drop by your place of employment with food????  She's big enough to have worked her way to the top, but who's to say her childhood makes her any more vulnerable than any other human?  No, she just happened to pick the wrong therapist.  The answer to the problem is not to be the wall of invulnerability that has no cracks.

The answer is to eliminate N's, and I think Legs has the right idea--Thelma and Louise style.  Unfortunately, that is in opposition to all else I believe.  Now I'll play my meditation cd's to deal with the cognitive dissonance. 

[alatariel]

No worries about "hijacking" this thread, each and every post here has something in it that I want to learn from.    As I said, it comforts me to know someone else has been there, and that you all get it when I talk about things the N's in my life have done and ways they have messed with my head.  Nobody that I know IRL has a clue.  They understand that my XNH is an alcoholic and that my XfrieNd treated me badly, but they will never comprehend either what life was like with an N nor why I stuck around as long as I did, when I'm supposedly an intelligent, educated, independent, liberated woman.