did your N's criticize the most irrelevant things?

[alatariel]

I just happened to remember the troll being very strongly critical of even the stupidest and most irrelevant things about me.  For example, one day she threw a weird fit about the way I make a cup of coffee.  First I add the sugar and milk to my cup, then fill it the rest of the way with coffee.  Well, she fills her cup with coffee, then adds the milk and sugar. She was so upset about the way I make my coffee, that she actually took my cup away from me, made the coffee for me, and spent like 45 minutes going on about how I do it wrong.

I even asked her, "Why do you care?  You're not drinking my coffee."  Her only answer was that there's a wrong way, and a right way, and her's is the right way. 

[Dandelion]

Yes! My father was not pleased with me putting on my clothes the way I did. I took on pants first and then blouse and he wanted me to do it the other way around. I still to this day do it like he wanted me to. It really doesn't matter now, but I remember his "You are doing it backwards!" WTF???

Actually I think it's a sign of the anxiety every N carries within - the risk of detecting the void that is there instead of a real personality.It makes them very rigid. Things has to be done in a certain way to make sense...

Mette

[seeingthelight]

ExN used to criticize me about pointing out his flaws....he would be in the middle of telling me what he didn't like about me and then when I mentioned he did the same thing it got turned around to why was I always trying to make it about me????

"There you go again, why do you always have to keep score?"

[NewWings4MeNow]

After we split up, I made a list of the 79 things XNPH had said in the last 6-12 months of our marriage that he didn't like about me.

They included that suddenly, after 12 years together, my sharp toenails (which I'd always kept clipped short) bothered him in bed ....

I'd never heard those things before.

It's written often that such constant criticisms about small things are a major sign of the impending end of a R.

As seeingthelight has said, I noticed then that XNPH was keeping score about what each of us did/didn't do in overt ways that I'd never seen before.

NewWings4MeNow

[Never again]

Oh yes, very much so. The most ridiculous small things, like the way or the place I would put my fork on the table, the fact that I would eat my cake before drinking my coffee instead of vice versa, using my teaspoon to eat the froth off my cappuccino (yum!), not putting enough salt on my vegetables (that's the vegetables on *my* plate, not the 'communal' ones)  .. Lots of food-related stuff, come to think of it. And yes, I too used to ask "What do you care??"

I don't remember my actual misdemeanours so much any more (I remember that they were endless, though) as his derisory tone .. Often he wouldn't criticise the act specifically but just ask "*Why* did you put that there?", "*Why* are you doing that?"  It was all in the tone, which seemed to be actually saying "How could you possibly be so stupid?"

He was like some kind of a beastie thing hovering over my shoulder and ready to pounce at the slightest sign of imperfection, and when he couldn't find a suitable imperfection he simply invented one ..

Sigh. It really was all very tiring.
Never again

[seeingthelight]

Never again - it is ALL very tiring and confusing...

I think the one that baffled me the most - when I told ExN that I was resentful of him getting to stay up all night, sleep all day, nap when he wanted, shower when he wanted, go out when he wanted, without ever having to consider our baby - his response was simply "Isn't that why you're on maternity leave?"

Okay, so how many couples have the chance to be home together for the first year of their childs life...who can equally share in their daily care, can give the other person a break to shower or go out alone or even, god forbid, sleep????

The f#cked up part is that now he is going for custody claiming that he was equally a part of Grace's care and that he was a stay at home dad....YEAH!!!! you stayed at home but you did F*CK all dickwad!!

(enough...needed to get that anger out a bit)

seeingthelight

[notakennedy]

NH drying the dishes ..... inspects every item I have washed as if he's a Sargeant Major inspecting the troops, holds each fork up in front of him, purses his lips ... ugh.  I am tempted to run him through with an eggy knife. He doesn't say anything but the criticism is implicit.  I can't be trusted with a dishcloth. Oh and picking bits of fluff off my clothes for me (while I am wearing them), again doesn't say anything, but you just know he's inspecting me for any little thing he can find to criticise. God forbid that I should present scruffily when I am out with him, therefore letting the side down....  . There are more important things going on in the world out there, wake up NH!!!!!!!!!!

[tango3]

The f#cked up part is that now he is going for custody claiming that he was equally a part of Grace's care and that he was a stay at home dad..

I'm guessing he wasn't a "stay-at-home dad" he was an UNEMPLOYED dad - big difference!  However N's just looooove to re-write history.  According to my beloved ex-N - I did nothing for 23 years - he raised his children, cooked dinner for them, drove them wherever they needed to go, cleaned the house, did their laundry, did all the yardwork, all this and he worked 100 hours a week.  I did nothing, in fact I'm pretty convinced now, that he managed, against all biological norms, to actually give birth to them too.  Making me utterly redundant.  I really don't know what I was doing during those 23 years, must have imagined changing all those diapers, doing all that laundry, all that cooking and cleaning and driving.  Heck I even imagined being pregnant and giving birth.

Welcome to N's fantasy land  

[MoreMyself]

The Hobbit became increasingly critical over the years.  It got to the point where I couldn't say good morning, it looks like a nice day.  Because he'd say that it was going to rain and walk away.  His favourite way of phrasing was "Do you have to....?"  Insert whatever you like there.  As in Do you have to leave that clothes hamper there for several days?  (Answer, if he'd ever help put the clothes away it wouldn't be left there). 

I used to think he had an obsessive compulsive personality.  If I left things out and he was upset, he wouldn't put them away where they belonged.  He'd just find the first available closet or shelf and jam everything in so tightly that I'd have trouble getting it out.  I believe it comes from a need to control.  They see themselves as superior, with their superior facade and knowledge that goes with it.  Why, or why won't we just listen to them and do what we are told?  Because they obviously know better!

[pinkpearl]

My Nmother once criticized me for using too much dental floss.  My own dental floss, that I paid for.

So, yeah, it got pretty irrelevant at times.

[alatariel]

NH drying the dishes ..... inspects every item I have washed as if he's a Sargeant Major inspecting the troops, holds each fork up in front of him, purses his lips ... ugh.  I am tempted to run him through with an eggy knife. He doesn't say anything but the criticism is implicit.  I can't be trusted with a dishcloth. Oh and picking bits of fluff off my clothes for me (while I am wearing them), again doesn't say anything, but you just know he's inspecting me for any little thing he can find to criticise. God forbid that I should present scruffily when I am out with him, therefore letting the side down....  . There are more important things going on in the world out there, wake up NH!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, my, gravy, does that remind me of dickhead!  He used to "clean at me", if I hadn't done housework to his satisfaction or on his schedule, he'd do it in such a way as to make sure I knew it was meant as criticism, despite the fact that he wouldn't say a word.

[Snowbird]

  His favourite way of phrasing was "Do you have to....?"  Insert whatever you like there.  As in Do you have to leave that clothes hamper there for several days?   

Oh, that would have been so mild as to be innocuous for Captain Bligh. He would never be that indirect. His assaults would vary, from year to year and depending on the situation and how pizzed he was about life in general.
But here, for example he might come up with:

- Only an idiot would wash the clothes and then not put them away.
- If you were my secretary I would have fired you by now.
- If you need help in the house you should get a job so you can pay someone else.
- Put those kids to work! (he would call 3-4-times a day on school break with this).

Other, generalized statements not directly involved with such things as an errant hamper might include:
- I never knew you were so incompetent.
- You make my life miserable.
- Only an idiot would load the dishwasher this way (you see a theme here?)

One day when I had made a huge batch of homemade vegetable beef soup he walked in and the house was a mess (I had three preschoolers at the time, and the soup took all afternoon).
He sneered and told me "A moron could keep the house clean and make a batch of soup!" So I took a sharpie and wrote on the side of my pot "MORON SOUP" where it stayed for years. Of course it made him mad and he denied ever saying it...

I learned to time our dinner so that it was ready to put on the table as soon as he got home. Not because he would expect or demand it (although once, early on,  when I hadn't started dinner, he raged 'I shouldn't have to work all day AND come home and make my own dinner!!!' But that was rare.)
No, the reason I would scramble to get dinner finished before he walked in is because he would go straight to the kitchen and start taking over. He would lift lids and stir things, and announce to the kids it was time to sit down. Not even asking me what we were having, how much time was left, whether the rice was done or was there something in the oven...nope, he just acted as though he were the one to spend the better part of the afternoon putting dinner on for eight people, and he was calling the shots.

It really drove me crazy.

The piece de resistance came a year ago during what I see now as his ultimate meltdown. This was the same day he raged at my 15 year old and physically hurt him, leading to his getting reported to child services. But earlier that day he was raging at me and came up with this gem:
"You broke your marriage vows because you haven't kept the house up to my expectations!!"

Soo.....after thirty years the truth comes out. When we got married he was hiring me and I was his employee.

[Rosemary]

Tango ,i got the same "you never worked Bla bla Bla "Look whos talking !!! i couldnt work otherwise the govt would have taken my pay off of his UNEMPLOYMENT money HIS fault not mine he made it impossible to work .
Also he drank a lot if i said anything it was" Well i havent seen you stop drinking ,you like a drink " yes but not constantly until i ran out of money 2 at the most he would drink strong beer and a bottle of whisky etc etc Also i got blamed for not wanting S=x. how can you   S==g with a limp dick   i mean the nerve of the man 

[seeingthelight]

I did nothing for 23 years - he raised his children, cooked dinner for them, drove them wherever they needed to go, cleaned the house, did their laundry, did all the yardwork, all this and he worked 100 hours a week.  I did nothing, in fact I'm pretty convinced now, that he managed, against all biological norms, to actually give birth to them too

Welcome to N's fantasy land

  I can see my situation getting there...he did actually point out one day that I basically do nothing all day...ahhhh...I asked him what else he wanted me to do besides, holding, changing, feeding our newborn, occupying her...buying groceries, making him dinner, doing the dishes (all while watching/feeding/caring for said newborn)

He has eczema so used this as an excuse to get out of almost everything dusty, dirty, work related...at 9-1/2 months pregnant he had me lugging boxes around - we just moved in together 3 weeks prior to our d's birth - in order to get our apartment in order...and yet when I left him 11 months later, all his closet stuff was still laying around our bedroom and I had to organize HIS closet so our daughter could crawl on our bedroom floor...

omg...I am remembering too much crap...the things he allowed me to do while late in my pregnancy all while he sat around drinking beer.

<enter numerous expletives here> 

[alatariel]

One day when I had made a huge batch of homemade vegetable beef soup he walked in and the house was a mess (I had three preschoolers at the time, and the soup took all afternoon).
He sneered and told me "A moron could keep the house clean and make a batch of soup!" So I took a sharpie and wrote on the side of my pot "MORON SOUP" where it stayed for years. Of course it made him mad and he denied ever saying it...

OMGROFLMAO!!!    I so needed a good laugh right now, especially at an N's expense!!  You are brilliant! 

[CZBZ]

Wow. What a thread!!

My X never paid me enough attention to notice whether my shirt was on backwards or not. He wasn't home at dinnertime often enough to lift lids or stir pots. He couldn't remember his kid's birth dates so he'd never say he took care of the kids better than I. He tried saying he chose a new woman to be with because she worked and I didn't (she was his personal assistant in a high-tech firm). But whenever he hinted to anyone that knew us, that CZ didn't work, their shocked looks told him his lie would get him nowhere (and ruin his credibility completely). And SO...the busy busy brain of the self-justifying narcissist came up with a new twist on why his wife deserved to be replaced:
 
He criticized me for "deskilling" him. You know, being so competent he didn't dare compete with me in the kitchen so here he was, a grown man, and he didn't know how to shop, do bills, cook food, hang out with the kids, etc. He had to leave because I had deskilled the poor rat bazturd. I wonder how long it took him to learn how to use a grocery cart? Must have been horribly frightening the first time he went to the produce department by himself.  

So he never denied my 'value' per se but he did rob it of any meaning. Just a job. Like any other job. gggrrrrrrr...That really hurts when your life is given a dollar value and you know that had you chosen a career, you'd be earning far more than minimim wage after thirty-some years and yet, that's what nannies are paid. I wish I could have charged him for every executive dinner I had to sit through. Of course, even when I looked absolutely smashing, he found something to criticize---like the topics i started at the dinner table or how I acted around Mr. HotShotFancyPants from Sweden. If I was so perfect there was nothing to criticize, he'd say, "you really think you look great, don't you?"

haha...YES.
 
Hugs,
CZ

[Snowbird]

OMGROFLMAO!!!    I so needed a good laugh right now, especially at an N's expense!!  You are brilliant! 

I'm glad someone appreciates it! But it didn't seem too funny at the time In fact it was one of the more painful memories of the early years, as it gradually dawned on me what I was dealing with.
But now, in retrospect....it fits neatly on my list of things to remember when I need resolve, now that I'm getting OUT! 

He wasn't home at dinnertime often enough to lift lids or stir pots.

Funny how little things can differ, yet in the big picture they are so much the same....and reading from the same playbook.
In our house dinner was a sacred ritual. We all had to eat together, every night, and it would take the better part of the evening. This was true also of weekends and any other time he might have been home from work; breakfast lunch and dinner on those days. It was exhausting. No one could get himself a snack or a bowl of cereal without dear old dad announcing that it was time to eat and instructing someone to set the table, while deriding the snacker that he should not only think of himself but should get out food and offer it to everyone (meaning dad).

I know at some level he meant well, having heard how healthy families eat together and all (and it was like that in his FOO). But he took it to new levels of rigidity. One time I was a couple of days postpartum and he had taken a week off to help with the older kids. I was in bed with the baby and I heard him call that breakfast was ready. I was thinking, oh good, he's feeding the kids. Then he came into our room and admonished, 'didn't you hear me call you for breakfast?" He was expecting me to pick up my sore bleeding body and sit at the table for the ritual because he said so.

Since he's been gone we've kind of gone overboard in the other direction. I make a simple meal in the afternoon, and have it ready for the kids when they come home from school since that's when they're hungry anyway. I put everything out and they help themselves, and we may or may not eat together at the same table or even the same time. And we have these nice, long relaxing evenings now.
 Occasionally I will insist we all eat together....but then it feels like a big deal. We are trying to get away from ritual!

 

I wonder how long it took him to learn how to use a grocery cart? Must have been horribly frightening the first time he went to the produce department by himself.

I wonder the same thing, except he's living with his N-mommy. I don't ask too many questions...

[MoreMyself]

Oh, the memories this brings back!  The Hobbit once emptied the dishwasher after I stacked it, saying that I didn't know how to do it properly and showing me how to maximise the space.  Perhaps he took Dishwasher Stacking 101 at university, because he certainly lied when he said he studied Economics so he must have been studying something else.

nMother has a phrase "Didn't anyone ever teach you to.....?"  Once it was hanging out the wash, another time making applesauce.  Apparently I just wasn't up to her standard.  Mealtimes as a family became intolerable because of the Hobbit's never-ending domination of the conversation.  If one of the boys started talking about his day at school the Hobbit would talk over him, recounting stories of his own prowess at something or other at high school (30 years ago)!  So my boys started eating in their rooms, in front of their computers.  I didn't fight it because honestly I couldn't stand the Hobbit at dinnertime.  He turned into The Restaurant Critic.  He would say that the chicken was good but the rice overcooked, or some such variation, drawing my attention to the inadequacies of my cooking.  It is my opinion that criticism at dinnertime about the food or any aspect of how it is cooked is a prelude to divorce.  Any partner who does that and won't stop even after being asked to (as I did with the Hobbit over and over) is asking for trouble.

[alatariel]

Snowbird, I didn't mean to laugh at your pain, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. 

I was just in a really terrible mood, and I thought your solution to your horrid ex's comment about the soup was brilliant and hysterical.  Instead of crumbling (like I would have done) or freaking out, you turned it into something you could deal with.  I wish I could be that quick on the uptake, but I usually think of something funny and sarcastically brilliant I could do long after the fact.

[Snowbird]

Snowbird, I didn't mean to laugh at your pain, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. 

I was just in a really terrible mood, and I thought your solution to your horrid ex's comment about the soup was brilliant and hysterical.  Instead of crumbling (like I would have done) or freaking out, you turned it into something you could deal with.  I wish I could be that quick on the uptake, but I usually think of something funny and sarcastically brilliant I could do long after the fact.

Oh no, don't worry, I didn't take it the wrong way! I meant that it was painful at the time and I didn't see my response as brilliant or hilarious....I meant it sincerely that I'm glad you appreciate it! Helps me put things into (ridiculous) perspective.
But at the time---oh so long ago, when I was young and more feisty than I became after he beat me down for a couple more decades----I still had a little fight in me. I did it because I was so shocked and angry, not because I was feeling particularly witty. And I was surely punished for having an independent brain and standing up for myself.

But you are so right: it's definitely something to look back on and laugh about....which I need to do more of!!
And I'm glad I can come here and express myself and find humor--and relief! as I fully realize what I am getting away from.

[daisyk9292]

N mom always criticized me for every little thing.

- Wearing my hair in a pony tail - (I didn't have a "good" face for one) No matter if it's 110 degrees.
- No matter if we are at home or out somewhere, I talked too loud. "Why don't you have a soft voice like a lady?"
- I walked or stepped too hard. "Why don't you walk nice, like a lady?"
- If I closed a drawer or door, I did it too rough. "You are such a rough neck"
- I was also,  "too sensitive" with "no sense of humor" when jokes were cracked at my expense.

N douchebag exBF I EA with, well we weren't married nor lived together. THANK YOU GOD.

But once we were exchanging emails and I said I needed to start dinner. He asked what I was making. I said "stuffed green peppers" These are my D's favorite. His response:

"Oh YUCK!! Heartburn city!!!" This makes me VERY happy he married someone else.

I do remember him saying to me, his wife didn't clean the house right at al, ever. He always had to go back and "reclean" everything. She couldn't even clean a toilet the right way.

Good lord, I see how I was wishing for the nightmare!!!!! Living with THAT! NO THANKS!!!

My H and I definitely have our share of issues. But he never criticized little things about me. He always appreciated ANYTHING I cooked. It could be shite on a shingle he'd gladly eat it up.

He never noticed anything about me though. In the 20 yrs he's known me, my hair has been blonde, brown, red, black, short, long, highlighted. He's never once said a thing about my hair.

For his company Christmas parties or executive functions, I always stressed out about finding the right dress, shoes, the hair etc. He never put that pressure on me, I did it to myself. But I tried to look as good as I possibly could.

I never once got "You look pretty" or anything even close. Not even "You look nice."

The only time H ever said anything about how I looked was on our wedding day. I think he said looked nice that day.

Other than that he never noticed anything good or bad really. He just accepted me as is. Which is kind of nice. Dull, but nice.

[Ball of Sunshine]

Alatariel - I love that you make your coffee that way! I thought I was the only weirdo. It just makes it easier for me, because the act of pouring the coffee in stirs it up!

Anyway - I was a bit of a skater back in the day and I enjoyed dressing up occasionally, but I am much more comfy in a t-shirt and jeans (usually have a long-sleeved shirt on underneath unless it's hot - yeah, I'm one of those). I had this lime green bag (purse) that I loved and used all the time. Lord Farquaad constantly took me through the Coach bag area of the Navy exchange (he is active duty, I'm prior active) and would encourage me to get a new nice purse. For Mother's Day he got me a Coach purse and a clutch (I wanted a massage gift cert). He insisted it was because he knew I'd never get it for myself (duh - I didn't want those).

He constantly criticized my hair, clothes, nails, and would point out EVERY pimple that would surface. I rarely broke out before my N came around - even as a teen. And now that I'm not around him very often, my skin is very clear - until he comes around again. I folded the towels wrong in the beginning. I didn't make PB&J right half the time. He was recruiting for a while and he would rarely be home in time for dinner, so I would make a plate and stick it in the microwave so I could clean the kitchen. Well, it didn't happen on occasion and he got so "upset" and "hurt." Apparently that meant I didn't love him. It didn't matter that I was getting up in the morning, getting our two daughters ready, driving 15-20 minutes to take them to daycare, going to school myself (full-time accounting major), picking them up from daycare, driving home, doing all the evening stuff (play, dinner, baths, and  bedtime routine), and then cleaning up. Did I mention that I also made sure all the bills were paid and that I took care of ALL the shopping? So, if I was a little tired, I didn't love him.

All he would do when he was home was lay on the couch, eat, sleep, and poop. Seriously, a big baby. He was definitely entitled to EVERYTHING. He would get irate if a store didn't give him a discount. He would switch price tags on stuff (never when I was around because he knew I'd get mad). He would be upset with me for not trying to get discounts. Lord Farquaad would get sooooo offended if someone questioned him or his integrity.

We've been separated for about a year and everything I have done to try to move on has been "just to get back at him" and "an eye for an eye." All my actions are because of what he does. I only started dating because he has been sleeping with everything. Haha. I'm really trying NOT to try to understand their logic. N's have no remorse, empathy, or feelings. Oh, and now he can't give me everything and leave him with nothing because he has to think of himself and the girls. I have custody of the girls! 

Sorry! I know this was long...still trying to get everything out!

[JennyWren]

Oh for shame  .....I feel I must confess...I too am an evil "Husband De-skiller".

Many decades I plotted the demise of BigBird`s ability to twist the Washing Machine programmer dial and hit the "On" button. Oh how I exalted at his inability to sew a button on a shirt. I hypnotised him nightly so as he was entirely unable to so much as boil an egg. (Being a BigBird this is probably some form of perverted cannibalism anyhow!)

How evil of me to repress his overwhelming desire to help around the home by beating him with a big stick daily until he only ever lay about on the couch watching TV....or "played" on the internet.

WHAT ARE THEY LIKE????? De-skilling indeed.

Probably the most disproportionate complaint BigBird attacked me with was the way I speak. BigBird and his terribly British upper class drawl did not approve of my "Common" accent. Oh boy did he go on about it. He "wouldn`t have got where he is today if he spoke like THAT!"

It was a dopey thing to pick on because I couldn`t give a stuff....even when I liked BigBird I thought that was a stupid thing to say.

[Dandelion]

I'd like to apply for membership of the de-skiller club.

I swing between laughing and feeling the hairs on my arms standing up.

One time, the elevator in my fathers building didn't work and he and his wife lived on the fifth floor. She had been grocery shopping and came home carrying 4 bags filled to the edge with stuff. He was lying in on the couch watching a movie and when she walked in huffing and puffing, he looked at her - didn't get up to help - but said: "But honey, why didn't you go twice instead?! You really aren't very smart!"

And yes, I am a de-skiller - but that makes perfect sense if children of N's are codependent!

[CZBZ]

Are we de-skillers, really? Did we do too much or were we excelling at our tasks and taking responsibility for our commitments? If you excel, or even if you do a pretty good job (having worked on your dyfunctional perfectionism  ), the narcissist will view your success as his/her failure. The better you get at what you do, the more he/she criticizes to knock you down a peg or two. Everything to a narcissist is a threat to their superiority. Even your ability to pick a juicy cantaloupe. They insist you pick a juicy cantaloupe or they'll call you incompetent cantaloupe picker. So you read a book on picking cantaloupes and bring home the sweetest fruit of the vine you can find and you still get criticized. It can make a person feel helpless and crazy.

The more skilled you are at anything, the more satisfying it is for narcissists to undermine your confidence and ruin your satisfaction.

As I've lived around people in normal relationships, I've come to believe that you cannot do too much for other people IF other people are reciprocating equally. The only time this system breaks down is when one party continues doing more than their share. People take turns doing too much for each other in times of trubble---like sickness, for example. People step in and exhaust themselves helping out because they believe (unconsciously for the most part) that their efforts are being bankrolled for the future when their partner will do too much to help them. Unfortunately, narcissists are keeping a watchful eye on how much they are 'getting' for what they are 'giving' so you don't want to get sick and stop pulling your share of the load. The other problem is that narcissists are so self-centered, they are NOT recognizing your contributions---only magnifying their own. This is the serious defect of the N-disorder, don't you think? That they only see themselves and not others?

So perhaps the narcissist IS doing a lot to contribute to your partnership/family/etc. And to you, his/her contribution increased your trust so you were willing to do as much as you could in the belief he/she was committed to the longterm. What you do not realize is that the narcissist is doing some kind of fancy math: Whatever he or she does is automatically doubled and whatever you do is minimized in half. 

When I look at the longterm relationships in my family, I'd say each person did too much for the other. Yea, this is a twist on codependency literature accusing people of doing too much, loving too much, forgiving too much---literature that puts responsibility on the shoulders of those who do 'too much' without examining those who do too little.  I cannot imagine a healthy world without those who do too much for others and maybe...in a small way, make up for the takers who do too little.

I can say that when I started learning about codependency, I felt so bad about a 'female' value system I had grown up admiring yet was now being criticized as dysfunctional. The real issue to examine is the pathological person destroying people's most valued beliefs and their lovely pro-social personality traits and skills. I hated feeling like I had to count my contributions and hours and make sure i wasn't doing too much in order to 'heal' my codependency. It robbed me of joy and passion for being who I was most naturally. I finally said "Phluck it all. Call me a de-skiller, a do-gooder, a woman who loves too much. It's fine." I took back my womanly-identifications and have been happier ever since. Not trubble-free by any means, but more confident in my skin.

What has changed for me though is this: I can spot pathological personalities much faster and I am not hndered by a much more problematic situation than co-dependency: ignorance about pathological narcissism. That is where 'I" needed to focus my attention. I am committed to helping other people learn about pathology, too. 

I should maybe be posting on the new thread about codependency but let me just say something right now and I'll copy it over: I am sick and tired of pro-social ideals being nit-picked and trashed instead of ripping a new azzhole in the tit-for-tatting narcissist. Most of the time, women are the ones being criticized and mocked as codependent which undermines her self-esteem and trashes her valued beliefs, her identity.

In a society that is becoming increasingly narcissistic, it is NO surprise to me that altruistic, generous, even self-sacrificing behaviors would be criticized as 'sick'. We idealize self-reliance, self-promotion, self-love to our detriment as a society.

Learning about the narcissistic continuum and learning about pathology helped me MORE than the sum total of all the codependency books in my library and there are quite a damn few! Seriously! When asked what was wrong with me to have ended up with a narc for thirty years, I say: "I did not know about personality disorders."

My story is not everyone's story; however, my approach is to educate people about pathology and dysfunctional systems---and THEN encourage people to focus on themselves and their reactions to the pathological personality. Others may have a different approach to the problem from mine but this is how my process has evolved.


Hugs,
CZ