"Fake it till you make it"... WDYT?

[alatariel]

Do you think it's possible that, even if we don't feel healthy, even if we hurt deeply and want to hide and run from the world and believe the aftermath of the horrid N-relationship is truly our own fault, that if we ACT healthy and happy and normal, we will eventually BE that way?

I realize that most of us were faking a lot of the time, pretending things were normal for outsiders, and that faking didn't work out in the long run.  Well, maybe other ppl never knew HOW bad it was, so it worked on that level, but we still weren't as "together" as we faked being, and we were never going to be, considering that the N's never knew THEY were faking, too.

But maybe now that WE are the only ones faking it, and we're doing it not to cover for the N but for our sake and our kids' sake, maybe we can eventually make it true?

Did any of that make sense? 

[Rosemary]

Makes sense to me alatariel  ,they say if you believe in something it brings it closer to you .makes your surroundings better ,and maybe will make us feel better too
surround ourselves with the xmas spirit for now 

[pearlsb4swine]

I have some mixed feelings about that "fake it till you make it" slogan.  I think it makes some sense on a very simple level, when trying to make decisions about how to get through the day.  When you are in terrible pain about an N relationship and you just want to curl up in bed and you get up anyway and take a shower and put on makeup and take care of the kids, go to work, etc.  It's a way to prime the pump and get yourself going.  And it does make you feel better, and taking care of the business of life increases your self esteem.  I understand there is a study that shows that smiling in and of itself lifts your spirits.  So sometimes the behavior comes first, and the emotions follow.

BUT.....I have a visceral negative response to it as well.  Because it's a big slogan in AA, and my stbxnh was all about the faking it and not so much about part of AA that calls for scrupulous honesty.  So it makes me recoil a bit.

Alaterial....you are not faking it.   You may feel fake sometimes when you try some healthy new behavior.  That's not faking it.  You are really DOING it.  And the long term effects will be there. 

I get discouraged when I think of how my marriage turned out, after all those years of working on myself, and therapy, and self help books!!  But when i think of where I really was 30 years ago.....I have come a long, long way.  As opposed to my stbxnh, who is just older, but otherwise unchanged.


Pearls

[Imogene]

I think there is some validity to this.  The experience of accommodating to a personality disordered individual often leads to depression, and depression leads to inactivity.  So forcing yourself to do things even if you don't feel like it is good self-therapy. 

But if you are reacting to other people's expectations that you be happy and more active, or if you think you simply need to be "more positive," well, then, I don't think that's as effective.

[alatariel]

It sounds as if all of you are saying that it depends on your motivation for "faking it".  If you're faking it b/c someone else wants you to, then it's not going to work, but if you're faking b/c YOU want or need to, it has a better chance?

I guess it's like laundry.  I really have an aversion to folding laundry, for some reason.  And when I was with dickhead, and folding laundry b/c he expected it to be done, there were times when I just couldn't force myself to do it, no matter how much I knew I would hate how passive-aggressively he would "fold at me" later.  Now, however, it's MY laundry, in MY house, I'm the only one who's going to fold it, and I force myself to do it b/c I KNOW I will feel better once it's done.

[notakennedy]

I was just thinking this morning that my thinking has become quite anxious and negative lately, and how much I have worked at overcoming this tendency only to have it come back and bite me again. I've started overreacting to some of NH's behaviour again even though I had made great progress in terms of detaching myself from it.  So I got to thinking, I should simply dismiss each of those negative thoughts as they occur, like it is impossible not to have them, but possible to acknowledge them for what they are (fear based) and consciously dispense with them and try to replace with something a little more positive. That's not faking it, that's making a conscious decision to do things differently.  So each time you act positively, there're no smoke and mirrors, you're actually DOING IT!  We're human and we've gotten very used to certain patterns of behaviour as the result of living in the shadow of N, but I really believe the moment you choose to 'fake it', you've actually made a postive leap forward out of that despair. Affirmation and repetition is everything.

[overwhelmed]

My take on this is....fake it....as in you don't have to "feel" it to rationally know it.  But you can't fake what you haven't educated yourself on and grasp, rationally.  With that being said, fake it til you make it, yes....I believe.  But there is a step before a person can.  That step is seeing that their thinking is twisted such as when ending a relationship with an N.  I rationally know and understand exactly what happened.  I see his behaviors, who he really is, how tangled up things are in my head.  I am in touch with the straight part of it all, with it untangled.  But in a snap, the irrational, tangled up thing can make it's way into my EMOTIONS.  I may "feel" a certain way until I focus and see what really is.  This is where I could apply fake it until I make it.  There will be a day it doesn't need to be focused on in order for me to not "feel" those tangled up things.  Until then, there are times I can fake it because underneath the unhealthy messages, I KNOW even on the days I don't "feel" it's true.  How I feel isn't how it factually happened or why or is.

[Legs]

Um, no. I do not think acting happy will make you happy though I have had plenty of people tell me that it will. I think that is utter BS and if you can't be honest with yourself and your own feelings, then you're really missing the point.


I can see "acting happy" when you're shopping at the market and that nice man picked out the perfect melon for you, and letting some idiot into line when they apparently missed the "merge: sign and I can see laughing and joking with the markert clerk because you have for years, and maybe that is faking it, but I think it's just mannerly. They don't know you've been kicked in the teeth (and they don't care)


I am not even sure I think you should get out of bed unless you have to....I have read a couple of books lately that were about living outside your feelings...and how we don't have to react to our feelings. Then why even bother? If we aren't even entitled to admikt and feel our own FEELINGS, then I think we should seriously think about just hanging it up.


I can see spreading on a nice thick patina of pleasantness when you are forced to be with other people, but when you're not, be who you are, feel how you feel and think what you think.



Legs, seriously sick of all those damn puppies and rainbows and cupcakes and unicorns

[MoreMyself]

Well, not sure about that.  I think it is important to validate your true feelings, to let them come out and deal with them and not to 100% mask them, although there are social situations where it is necessary to do so.  Unfortunately we live in a society where we are supposed to put on a happy face, to make happiness our ultimate goal.  I read somewhere recently that happiness is not the natural human state.  That unhappiness and other negative emotions are equally normal.

But I do know this.  Carrying around and showing unhappiness 100% of the time is definitely not going to make you feel happy.  I guess the solution lies somewhere in between, in being honest to what you are feeling and identifying the triggers, as well as the ways to cope with it.  I like to go to the gym and work hard until sweat is pouring off me and I know why I am doing it.  It gives me that nice pleasant glow that lasts for hours, that feeling of contentment.  But I don't do it to excess.  So instead of faking happiness I just carry my bad mood off to the treadmill and jog it off.

[JennyWren]

Please note....the following is my opinion only....and I entirely accept that different people find different approaches helpful...and absolutely DO NOT intend to detract from anything which works for others.....

But....

Oh no no no no NO! Not for me.

Now I can act and do a performance of "normal person out doing the shopping being civil to people". I can do "normal neighbour making conversation while de-icing car windscreen"....Oh I can fake it. But it doesn`t help my inner state AT ALL. In fact.....it makes me worse.

Here`s how I see it. If I had been hit by a truck and broken my leg...I would not expect myself to do the 400m hurdles the next day. My leg is s*dding hurting thankyou...and it is going to have to heal before it can walk.

In the same way...a guy with a freaky personality disorder has spent most of my adult life removing all the healthy happy parts of my brain. Mentally I have been hit by a truck.....but it didn`t break my leg...it broke my heart.

So I will not be faking anything unless social niceties make that necessary. I will be polite and civil and all that...but I will not be rushing out to any parties or flinging myself about faking stuff.

And moreover....what is it that one is supposed to be faking? What are we all supposed to be like? Is there really not room in the world for a grumpy old git here and there? Or a misery guts who wants time alone sometimes? Must we all aspire to being perfection? Can`t we just be proud of what we really are instead of striving to be how we think we should be?

Urghh.....maybe I should just go to bed and shut up. Stopping first to kick some puppies and unicorns...splat some cupcakes....and mangle some rainbows for Legs.

[Legs]

I went to a year's worth of AA meetings...three different meetings, because an old friend of mine kept telling me how beneficial it was to her and others she has known. I even went twice a week sometimes and even three times one horrible week, and that idea of faking it until you make it and another idea they had of "acting as if" were two concepts that just never worked for me.

I dunno if it's because I don't really have to fake it or act "as if" in front of the cats, I don't have a job, I have no family here, have removed myself from almost all contact with anyone or else Lucifer removed me by spreading a bucket of lies about me to everyone we knew and still is.

 I found out today he has been to the University Police several times (which is really kind of crazy because they are still in the middle of an investigation of *his* activities at the med school) and he has been to the Sheriff's department (I don't know why because we both live inside the city limits) and apparently the regular police department and the District Attorney's office trying to have some sort of charges files against me.....the last complaint being that he believes *I* sent emails to people that had links to the news stories about him online.* Trouble is, that's not a crime. Nor is anything else he has complained about or at least he didn't have any evidence.

 Apparently he has become quite the laughing stock around the campus. I admit, I did have to run by and take a picture of his now empty office with his nameplate removed from the door and a picture of his lab door and someone had FINALLY scrubbed the happy face sticker off that door and removed his phone numbers, and maybe I'll include that pic when I send the P*n*s Pokey book to him.....still haven't decided whether to send it to his home or to his old address at the school in C/O his old chairman. Hell, maybe I should just send it straight to the Police department....sounds like that's where it's going to end up!


Here's the url to see the book, and I see a few other books on this page I might need to send to him or his ladyfriend.....or to his ladyfriend's husband maybe! I just sign it, "Love, Lucifer"

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=penis+pokey&x=17&y=14

or you can use:

http://tinyurl.com/6sjcslu




Ok, sorry.....off track a little. I guess he doesn't get it...every  time I hear abut another one of his crazy stupid chit, it just makes me think of another way I can jack with him. If that's the game he wants to play, I have finally snapped awake enough to play it through. I know I am dragging myself down to his level, but it's just so dang much FUN! Especially during this Lovely Season of Christmas and New Year's Cheer!

So, anyway...many people that I know and do respect have advised the "fake it till you make it" and the "act as i" stragegies, and I believe they must have worked for them or they wouldn't have encouraged me to try it. I know I sounded snotty about it a while ago, and I really just meant to say that neither of those things worked for me. I didn't know how to do that or couldn't understand how it would help me or maybe I was too crazed to even see what they were saying.


I can say for sure and certain, that the only things that have really worked for me are doing what I can when I can, and when I can't, I don't. I try to do nice things for myself that don't cost anything because I have zero money and I have had to change the things I have always done...the biggest thing being reading. I used to read 7-10 books a week, and I think I have maybe read a dozen in the last three years. It was my greatest pleasure and now I can't concentrate or remember anything I've read. The other thing people kept suggesting was to do something for others......no thanks. I don't want to add any stress to my life putting on a happy face and teaching people how to read or anything else. I have no interest in doing anything for anyone right now. I just want to be in my own little bubble.


And I just wanted to say that the one good thing I ***did*** hear in AA was, take what you need and leave the rest and I think that is a really great thought to pass on. I'm pretty sure that most people here are trying to help in their own way whenever they post something and I really didn't mean to sneer at this topic. I just never had to do it in my situation, but I can surely see how if you had kids or a family around or a job, you'd have to do those things sometimes just to survive.


And it's gross when you spend a week in bed and don't brush your teeth or take a bath, even though the cats don't seem to mind!



*Bingo!

Legs, up to no good

[Imogene]

The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas. 

Thanks for the best laugh I've had in months, Legs.

[Imogene]

I had another thought for you.  Isn't time to invent that coy but sexually vivacious Eva Braun of a woman-child (who has read all the hype and feels that Dr. Nasty was falsely accused) to step up and begin wooing him with gifts and letters?  You could hire a transsexual prostitute for the eventual meeting between these two love birds.  If you got him to wear a hidden camera, you could get more photos of Little Nasty to add to your collection.

 

[alatariel]

But... but... but...

chocolate cupcakes with cream-cheese frosting and sprinkles!  puppy breath! 

and we actually get rainbows and even double rainbows right outside my house several times a year...

Well, yeah, the "act as if" thing is repeated everywhere.  I see ppl posting similar sentiments on FB all the time, and I get that advice from ppl on a regular basis.  So, I guess I'm supposed to determine what it is I want in life and act as though it already exists?  I'm supposed to act as if I have a decent job?  How, when I don't actually have one?  I need to act as though I'm not permanently damaged by 41 years of emotional abuse?  How does someone like that act, b/c I have no idea.  I'm supposed to act as if my ex has already been run over by a bus?  Oh, wait, maybe I can do that, I know somebody who drives a bus...

Er.  Hold on.  Doesn't that last part violate the whole "karma"  and "threefold rule" thing, to ill-wish somebody?  Oh, well.  I guess that's off then.



Ok, seriously.  I do act like a "normal" person in public, chatting pleasantly with cashiers and coworkers about the weather, smiling at strangers, making babies giggle, petting dogs.  I get out of bed every single morning, and shower eventually.  I'm fortunate to have kids and cats, life CAN NOT come to a complete halt while I wallow in my misery b/c everyone needs to get off to school and be fed and cleaned up after.  And there are days when that knowledge is the only thing that keeps me going.

[pearlsb4swine]

Sometimes I need to fake it a little because I am by nature introverted, and also lazy.  I get so overwhelmed by even normal people and especially Ns.  I just want to cocoon in my house alone, and have to really push myself to take a shower, get dressed, do something with the day.  I just wander around the house in my dog hair covered bathrobe with a cup of coffee and look out the window.  And then I get disgusted with myself.  And bored.  And have trouble concentrating.  And spend hours reading all these threads and thinking and thinking.  About what I want my life to be now and how to get there.  It's easy to sneer at some of these slogans, for me anyway.  When I see how Ns distort them like they do everything else to their own advantage.

I try to be positive, but it's hard.  So much loss and grief to process.  And I am old and fat and broke.  And it's raining.

[overwhelmed]

Legs, you just warm up my warm spot.  I wouldn't deny my feelings either and agree with your blunt expressions that seem to make me smile.

I meant I could apply "fake" it to feelings that are twisted.  My thinking N is a SOB, isn't twisted.  Certainly, I don't express the true nature of that truth just anywhere.  For example, I wouldn't start making personality disorder claims to a judge in court regarding the egg. 

Now, when I get caught up in feeling guilt or feeling bad for the loads of things N accused me of while we were together, the turn arounds, etc.....THESE things are HIS.  I know they aren't mine to feel.  I rationally know he made a butt load of stuff mine that was his and I carried it.  So if I start feeling these things, I focus on the truth, the tricks of the N.  This doesn't necessarily make the "ick" feelings inside me go away even though I rationally know the deal.  So I can fake it until it goes away if I need be.  For example, I'd jump through hoops to prove to him I didn't lie about something he said I lied about.  Looking back, this was him who was feeling caught....he'd project and smear his character onto me while claiming he was me.  It worked.  I wasn't a worthless liar, I was way too honest.  He was.  I felt terrible when he wouldn't let me "prove" myself something I wasn't.  You think he ever attempted to prove himself with such energy?  of course not, his trick was to just put it on me, it's not on him if it's on me. 

Do I feel stuck, frustrated and at times, depressed from what all this person has and continues to force on me that I have to deal with?  court, being stuck in this state?  sure and that I feel.  I can't deny that.  Am I bitter?  yep.  That is an appropriate feeling to have given this situation.  I wouldn't deny an appropriate feeling.  He's done outrageous things, I'm outraged....outrageous crap is deserving of my outrage.  He's harmed my life in profound ways.  I'm not bitter regarding life in general but things surrounding him?  the aspects of my life I'm stuck in because of him?  absolutely.  And even if I got to move on as I wanted, I can't imagine looking back years later and not feeling bitter about the time frame surrounding him or him period.  It doesn't carry over to innocent people, good people in my life....but him?  Why would I ever feel anything but appropriate things surrounding him?  I know who and what he is.  I'm certainly not going to feel good things about him regardless of time gone by.  I don't aspire to.  I don't even hope to.  I don't even want to.  Evil that he is, I don't want that anywhere near my life.  I don't want to feel neutral to it

Years later, lets say our daughter has children or gets married.  Sure, I realize he may be present at things or events such as this.  I won't cause a scene but will I fake it?  Nope.  I will respect my daughters right to and keep my mouth shut.  But I won't go near him or even look in his direction.  That man will not get a word from me.  Not hello, nothing....not a glance, not even a dirty look.  I'm not going to fake like it's OK or feel I have to.  If someone is uncomfortable by my respecting their right to love someone evil, well.....that's not my causing that.  IT'S HIS.  It's uncomfortable because of who he is. I will not apologize for knowing it.  I will not unknow what I know.  And that's how I feel about that.

[Liftedup]

I hate that saying fake it til you make it. Its just more of the forced on plastic smiles and rest demanded in an amoral society. Also how many people do not share problems or have real relationships because of pressures like this? I don't dump my problems on everyone but do not feel like walking around like a big phony. The pressures of that actually add to any depression. I have told close friends that husband has a personality disorder. I do not hide it. If he is narcing it up, I just do my own thing. Some have been surprised by that, like Ill eat on my own at dinners etc. Tough. I do not feel like playing the games for anyone.

[Liftedup]

Sometimes I need to fake it a little because I am by nature introverted, and also lazy.  I get so overwhelmed by even normal people and especially Ns.  I just want to cocoon in my house alone, and have to really push myself to take a shower, get dressed, do something with the day.  I just wander around the house in my dog hair covered bathrobe with a cup of coffee and look out the window.  And then I get disgusted with myself.  And bored.  And have trouble concentrating.  And spend hours reading all these threads and thinking and thinking.  About what I want my life to be now and how to get there.  It's easy to sneer at some of these slogans, for me anyway.  When I see how Ns distort them like they do everything else to their own advantage.

I try to be positive, but it's hard.  So much loss and grief to process.  And I am old and fat and broke.  And it's raining.

I don't fit in with normal people, because I am old fat and broke too. I try to get what friends I can, but sometimes I have to withdraw from world too and sometimes health forces it. I sometimes get tired, don't get bored but just want to sleep. IF the weather is good I do not mind going out, and doing things but sometimes just feel tired. I do not feel like being what others want me to be anymore and have quit.

[JennyWren]

Imogene @ Legs.......

I had another thought for you.  Isn't time to invent that coy but sexually vivacious Eva Braun of a woman-child (who has read all the hype and feels that Dr. Nasty was falsely accused) to step up and begin wooing him with gifts and letters?  You could hire a transsexual prostitute for the eventual meeting between these two love birds.  If you got him to wear a hidden camera, you could get more photos of Little Nasty to add to your collection.

  Imogene....you are SO BAD!! What a delicious idea!  Of course.....Dr Nasty would have a zillion fantastical excuses as to why Little Nasty had to make an appearance. Some kind of experiment relating to the variety of uses for droopy mini-salami.

And....oh good grief....I now see why I have a problem with the whole "Fake it `til you make it thing". Seriously. It`s because THAT IS WHAT PIGGING Ns DO....they spend their WHOLE LIVES FAKING. Pretending to be human....studying normal humans so they can put on a performance. They fake it SO much.....they don`t even know what reality is any more. I want to keep my feet very secure in the truth. No faking.

Imogene....you cunning plan has enlightened me. 

[Legs]

Hell's bells! I totally forgot about Eva............maybe she'll appear after the holidays. After Lucifer has been further outed to everyone he has ever known and after the Married Prost!tute is outed at her job and to her husband friends and family.

 Oh, how I love facebook. My alter is friends with over 300 of her and her husband's friends and family......I might have to post that frame clipped out of the video that clearly shows her name and email address and say WTF? How could she do such a thing to her darling husband and embarras her kids and family like this. Has she gone insane to put this kind of identifying info into an email?


Who is this old dude she is writing such porno messages to.....and why has he been sending her money for years and years.............just intimate all kinds of stuff and (come to find out as they say up here) it can all be backed up with some nice court documents, some hotel receipts, airplane ticket purchases on Lucifers credit card, purchases made and sent to her along with identifying emails and receipts, copies of checks sent to her over the years, blah, blah of which copies will be sent to wh*re's husband timed to arrive just before Christmas day. I hope all of them have a really Happy New Year.


 I do delight in knowing that Lucifer has spent the last few months making a pest of himself all over town to every law enforcement agency he could think of and none of them apparently believed one word out of his mouth and one particular law enforcement agency apparently pretty much said if he bothered them again with allegations that he could not back up, then they might press charges against him.


 Apparently he is even considering taking on the university after the spectacular press on what happened to our "Pirate Football Coach" who was fired by the University......it pretty much came down to the fact that since Texas is a soverign state, they can't be sued. Oops. I guess Lucifer forgot that part .....plus, he retired. Ass.

Thanks for reminding me about Eva. I have to think of the perfect name and back story for my saucy  maiden. Ohhhhhhhhhh, he such an important man doing such valuable research on Alzheimers research (only that was all BS..........he was doing important porno research) and he felt like he had to leave his work because mean old University did not give him  chance to explain his other important E.D. research, not that he look like he personally involve in such as that..he look so young and handsome, I not believe my eyes when I see his age printed in paper. It is a crime what happen. He should sue them and make them give him back his position. He should be Chancellor of the Entire University!


Dog, that was kinda fun. Ok, after I am all done with my Christmas Destroyer Mission I will rethink Eva......


Legs, not a nice girl anymore nor ever again

[Dandelion]

Yes to Fake till you make it. The big problem is - most ACONs have no clue to what normal or truly happy is - how can you fake it if you don't know what it looks like!

If you truly know what it feels like to be and act yourself, to take yourself seriously, to listen to your gut feeling, to contain yourself at all times, to be at peace with your past, to find the balance between helping yourself and helping other, to establish long term friendships and lasting relations - if you know how all that feels and looks - please go ahead and show it to yourself and the world and I promise you it won't be long before you "make it". That's the whole point - to really be radiantly content, you MUST know what it feels like or else you cannot fool anyone - least of all yourself. So if you DO know how to fake it, you DO know how to make it 

[alatariel]

Dandelion, you're so right.  You'd have to be a superb actor to fake what you've never experienced!  I used to act in community theater, but I don't think I was ever that good.  I have absolutely no idea what "healthy" is like.  I know damn well what a "veneer of mental health" and a "thin veil of normality" look like, though.  I can fake those all day long.  I am so good at pretending everything's ok that I even fooled myself, for years.

[Rosemary]

Im just blocking it  out at the moment by being busy ,good job its a busy time of year .

have to start therapy  next Tuesday ~~~have an appointment  for an hour for an assessment  (think its him that needs to be assessed )
also i told doctor i didnt want the same counseller i had last time and guess what ? its the same woman .she made me feel worse before so im not hoping for much help,i dont feel like going     

[alatariel]

Rosemary, I'm sorry you're dealing with a bad counselor. I think there are few worse things than someone who is supposed to HELP us who has no idea how to do so and just makes us feel worse. 

[Rosemary]

Thankyou Alatariel ,its some years since i had her ,but i told doc i didnt want her this time !!!!
this is next tuesday ,she just makes me feel like crying ,certainly doesnt make me feel stronger ,and shes to do the assessment   to say what sort of treatment i need     

In U.K. you cant go and start talking about N.P.D.s they would think im mad ,ill have to skirt around the problems you know it will come out all jumbled   up i sps .