NMother trying to get me to respond. :-(

[HealingDaughter]

I'd been doing so well. Made it through Christmas and actually enjoyed myself this year rather than years past where I dreaded parts of it. And then this popped up today.

I went NC with my Nparents October 5th with a long letter that basically stated 'agree to these conditions and respect me by writing a letter in response through the mail or there will be no further contact'.

Not only have neither of them written me a letter and sent it by mail, my Nmother proceeded to try to contact me every way except by letter. Phone calls, e-mails, text messages, messages through other people. You name it, she has done everything BUT what I asked her to do. The tone has ranged from downright nasty to overdramatic expressions of how she can't live without me to self-righteous messages such as today's text message:
"God revealed to me this weekend that HE is my father and nothing I do or say can push him away. Also, HE told me very clearly that you are my gift from him. I am your mother and nothing you do or say can push me away. Unconditional love from GOD through me to my daughter! I love you, MOM"

Whatever she is invoking must not be the same God that I believe in because what she's done to me my entire life, the enmeshing, parentification, triangulation, gaslighting made me a suicidal wreck who didn't believe that I was allowed to have feelings. I was constantly told I was too sensitive, wrong, couldn't remember anything correctly, and told in more ways than one that I could never live up to my mother's image. I didn't believe I had a right to be happy. When I finally entered a true unconditional loving relationship with my husband was when I realized how messed up and toxic things are with my parents.

Anyway, this newest text message just really got under my skin. I want to cry, but I know I shouldn't. That is what my mother would want. She's just grasping for control because I'm gone and she has no narc supply left. After I went NC with her and my stepdad, they started spreading lies in our family that my husband was abusing me. That is just a small taste of how perverted and toxic they are. I'm trying so hard to be strong and not stoop to addressing her in any way because I know she would see it as a victory if I gave her any response at all. It's just hard to not let this screw up my day.

[Chime]

Oh, hey -- if you want to cry, if that's your authentic emotion -
then you cry!   
Don't let any thought of anyone else's opinions create a diversion; 
and you hang tight with these truly courageous attempts to take yourself back
I think you're amazing!
Chime

[Imogene]

I'm with Chime--cry if you want to.  Cry because you have such a parent so manipulative and vindictive that she would use God to shame you, rather than agree to your terms the way any loving and supportive parent who had hurt their child so badly would.  Cry because she FAILED you, not because she hurt you.  That's the truth in any case.  She is a failure as a parent, and that is a loss worthy of tears.

Any by the way, what a predictably narcissistic response to your letter.

[Rosemary]

Its so hard Healing Daughter ,with an N mother ,they dont listen at all.

you stick to what you want to do ,as you told them your conditions ,and they havent done what you asked .

I went through this with my N mum years ago .Its the liesthey are spreading about you too that get you .

You did well to get through xmas Healing     I hopeyou can get through this too (((hugs)))  

[pearlsb4swine]

  
Healing daughter, you go ahead and cry if that's what you feel.  Your mother is a typical N--trying to imply that she speaks for God!  Her "unconditional love" is neither love nor unconditional.  She got under your skin because that's what they do.  She is going to keep trying, to throw whatever she can think of at you that might make you cave in.

Stay strong. 

Pearls

[MoreMyself]

I'm sorry your Nmother got to you with her manipulation.  The good news is that it is so blatant you saw through it immediately.

My mother (high N and Histrionic traits) also aligns herself with 'God' or rather her peculiar definition of what that is.  After messing up her own health, getting medical procedures she didn't need and then taking out her anger on her children over the outcome, she suddenly had a religious spurt and played up the walking with God thing instead of accepting responsibility for her actions and apologising for the awful mess she made.  But here's the catch.  In the n's world, God is always on their side.  Never mind everybody else.  God agrees with the N and what they think and believe.  They just don't get it and never will. 

Another thing that my mother said was so devious that it took a while to process her meaning.  My older brother and I have done very well in life financially and have run our own businesses etc.  And it was hard work and took determination and commitment.  Recently my mother said that when we were born she asked God to bless each of us, and look what happened!  God did it!  God made us successful! 

Whooaa!  After leaving home at the age of 16, paying my own way every single step of the way for the next 45 years and working hard throughout my life, my nMother now wants to take that away from me and say that her and God were responsible? 

This God card that they play really gets the steam rising from the top of my head.

[inflatedheart]

HealingDaughter--

I, too, am recovering from N-parents and I understand your pain. I have limited contact with them at this point. I am slowly, but surely, working on going NC with them. This has been hard because my NM is dying, so I understand the contradictory feelings and the temptation to stuff away the feeling(s). It is important that ACONs (adult children of narcissists) learn to experience emotions authentically and independently of the narcissist. If we do everything in response to them, we are still revolving around them and letting them have control. It can be hard to figure out what is truly an authentic feeling and what has become a response to N. We often use words like "I should have..." / "I shouldn't..." because we been conditioned to be so self-critical instead of genuine, authentic, and self-determining. I used to use this phrase so much that DH made me start an "I should have.." jar and made me put in a quarter every time I said it. (Let's just say there was enough in there by the end of the month to pay the rent! ) It takes time and it's okay to make mistakes. Cry if you need to. 

I understand what you mean by "letting this ruin your day". It can be really hard to let go of the hurt. I often found myself reliving painful memories or feeling hurt for a longgggg time after they did something nasty to me. It often felt like that the pain would never go away. I found that I as I learned to feel authentically, dismantle the narcissism, and understand what my role was in the N-games, the hurt stopped lingering. (There will always be days where the pain is too great and it lingers for a very long time.) I know it is hard to move on afterwards but it does improve with time and work.

From what I've heard from other ACONS, the "spousal abuse" lie is common. When I cut off contact with my N-sis, she started spreading lies that DH was emotionally abusing me. She had even plotted to have my N-family to come and "confront" DH and take me to a battered women's shelter. Just pure insanity!!  She also sent me several, nasty harassing emails telling me what a "loser" DH was and listed off all of his bad qualities. In this email, she  complimented me (called me 'brilliant' and 'talented'; probably for contrast between myself and DH), but the fact that she has the "power" to make the ultimate discernment is what is so classically narcissistic. As if they are so powerful and omnipresent as to interpret the will of God, sanction/grant a person brilliancy or talent, or cure your "disease". I suspect that the Ns think they can use psychology (or religion in this case) as a protective barrier. If they can invoke these concepts, they're the ones doling out the diseases (or divine edicts) and if they're in control of these concepts, they believe it can't be used against them. It reinforces the viscous cycle of insecurity and vanity. In order to protect their fragile inner selves from experiencing criticism/pain, they must project their problems onto others and then elect themselves to positions of power and authority to bolster their egos. It seems that your NC letter really triggered their insecurities and they need you to make them feel secure and self-assured. Without their faithful supply and mirror, they feel worthless, fearful, and numb.

  You don't deserve to be treated that way! I'm keeping you in my thoughts, dear! 

[HealingDaughter]

I know my Nmother is feeling desperate. Just the swinging tone of the variety of communications I've received from her paints a sickly picture. At one point she said she feels paralyzed and can't do anything, that I'm making her sick because she's over 55 now and not doing so well anymore health-wise, which is really funny because one of the things she's always held over me is how much more fit she is than me. That has changed in the last three months apparently. She challenged me to a weight loss challenge a year and a half ago... and guess what? I have lost 45 lbs. She is still sitting within 5 lbs of where she started and up until going NC, she would regularly tout that she was still more fit than me, even though I'd lost the weight, could run 5 miles straight while she couldn't even run a quarter mile, and I believed her for most of that time until going NC! Then reality set in about how much she had been manipulating me and my thoughts about myself and it's like I suddenly had this huge boost to my self esteem from what it once was. I truly believe my eating disorder problems in my teens were largely a product of her chiding me over my weight and eating, telling me I could never live up to her level of fitness.

[alatariel]

I'm sorry she's trying to pull your strings.  Keep up the NC, b/c it sounds like that's working for you.

My n-mom pulled N-crap on me recently, too.  It hurts. Cry if you feel like crying, or pound pillows, or take a long walk to a deserted part of the woods and scream.

[Legs]

I know it's hard now, but I went completely NC with my two psychotic sisters three years ago...maybe 3 1/2, and it gets SO much easier eventually! The trick is, if you have ANY contact, you have to start all over again. I had the divorce to take my mind off of it somewhat, but I am so very, very grateful I did nt have either one of those two along for that ride to Crazytown.


It's like tying your shoes.......it's hard at first but then someone shows you Bunny Ears, and you're golden.


Every time you want to contact them and you don't, put a dollar in a jar or a nickle or whatever. Add that up at the end of the month and buy yourself a Mercedes or a Snicker or something.....a Snicker would actually be appropriate since they don't make a Snort bar, at least, not to my knowledge.



legs

[HealingDaughter]

hahaha... not a snickers. I already go to food when I'm emotional. I've had a bowl and a half of frozen yogurt today and blown my calories for today. Now maybe a pair of shoes or a new piece of jewelry... LOL. I could go for that, Legs!

[HealingDaughter]

Ugh. I hate this. I was feeling better after talking to my husband about all this and all of your responses and then I made the mistake of talking to a friend who I thought would understand. She didn't. Even though she's basically NC with her messed-up parents, she thinks I should restate boundaries and maybe let them know how we are. She just doesn't get how toxic they are. How they manipulate and how they will NEVER respect boundaries if they can't even respect my solitary boundary of only contacting me by letter. To me that's a pretty simple boundary. She seems to think that my mother has rationalized the calls and e-mails and texts as a proper means of contacting me.

She was the last person I expected to have to defend my position to. I mean she's still my friend, but I know I cannot share with her about this anymore because she hasn't done the research I have and she doesn't understand how any contact can be toxic. She seems to think that I should be able to teach my son that their behavior is inappropriate but still allow him to have contact with them and be ok. I don't want my son to ever be subjected to ANY of what I went through as a child and I know there is simply no way that can happen unless we are NC.

[JennyWren]

HealingDaughter.....what your friend doesn`t know....and will never know...is their are difficult parents....and THEN there are N parents, It`s a whole different league.

I am learning just not to discuss Ns with people who don`t have first hand experience....because to do so leaves me feeling so much worse. Totally invalidated.

An N parent believes you are their possession. The ploy of using God against those they wish to control seems pretty common. Of course...it is the ultimate in power.

I have had the bible quoted to me on various occasions by my in-laws to guilt me into doing as they wish. I find that just sickening. God doesn`t speak through them. How dare they pretend he does?

Hang on in there...this will get easier. But it will take time. Come post it all here...because we ALL understand. And support you TOTALLY. 

[MoreMyself]

Jenny is right.  An N parent actually does believe you are theirs, a part of them, to control.  My mother has actually said to me that we 'came' from her therefore she feels it is her right to give us advice (translation - tell us what to do).  A messed up parent, as in drugs, lifestyle choices, bad parenting skills, is a whole other matter. If they can repair their other problems, they might actually become parents that can respect boundaries.  An N parent who thinks of you as a spare body part is never going to respect boundaries with you.  And if it causes you stress to deal with them, the ultimate boundary is no contact which is unfortunately often the only thing that works to minimise the never-ending damage inflicted by an N.

I have a dear friend who I love but who actually said it was time to 'get over it'  meaning the damage inflicted on me by the Hobbit.  Needless to say this friend has a good marriage of over 30 years duration.  So of course she is never going to get it.  She has dealt with her partner's unemployment and subsequent ill health and she imagines that she too has had a hard time in her marriage so she believes she is qualified to give advice, probably the same way your friend thinks she is qualified to tell you how to handle the situation.  But they don't, because they are not Ns.

I would keep her as a friend but never discuss your parents with her again.  If she asks just say things are okay or some such other non-answer.

[inflatedheart]

After leaving home at the age of 16, paying my own way every single step of the way for the next 45 years and working hard throughout my life, my nMother now wants to take that away from me and say that her and God were responsible? 

This is wonderfully written, MoreMyself! It totally hits home for me as well. N's hate to see us thrive despite their every attempt to make us fail. The only way that they can cope is to attribute it to themselves! N-sis (who emotionally abused me and financially manipulated me) still believes that the one time she read over my college essay, let me stay in her apartment, and helped me with groceries et cetera is what "got me to where I am today". She believes that all of my excellent grades, awards, and scholarships can be attributed to a minuscule influence on my life. 

[nutella]

Below is an email both I and my D received  right after the divorce.  To place it in context, my D had been watching 4 children while Nmom went to bars 4-7 nights a week looking for someone new, right after her plastic job.  She found the village idiot and immediately moved him into the house.  D did not like the village idiot, but she is passive by nature.   When Nmom traded D for the village idiot and demanded "respect" because of her God given position, things took a turn for the worst.  Insecure village idiot joined the devaluing program and tried to whip D into line....

  One night, I get a call from hysterical D.  D said, "Nmom has kicked me out of the house".  I tried to call the N, it would not come to the phone.  N put my 15 year old son on the phone.  After repeated attempts to try and locate D (who was over 700 miles away) and talk with the N, I called the police.  After the cops showed up at D's home,  a Friend of D's volunteered where she was hiding (at another friend's house), and D was "arrested" for..... running away!

   D does not lie.  She stays silent or calls you an F******@###$$#.   She does not lie ( I am so lucky but unlucky in other ways)

Anyway, she came to see me for awhile.    We immediately  received this email (I have not taken the time to bold everything from the original MS word attachment) : 
-----------------------
______ POLICIES AND REGULATIONS . . . ACCORDING TO MOM
To speak the truth at all times . . . to respect and show kindness to all family members,
especially adults . . . to obey all adults and those left in charge. If these three rules can
be followed, there should be no need for additional rules; however, to clarify and to make
certain there are no misunderstandings . . .

1. Mom will be introduced to friends at her request prior to spending time at friends’
houses. She can also request another contact number in case of emergency
other than your cell phone. The evening curfew for the two oldest is 9:30pm on
weeknights, 11pm on Fridays (for Emma), 9:30 on Fridays (for Harrison unless it
is a special circumstance), and Saturday will be family night and thusly, there will
be no sleepovers, parties, visiting friends, ect. We will attend Church together
every Sunday morning.

2. Passwords on personal computers are forbidden. Mom will be allowed access to
to any computer at any time via her request.

3. Family responsibilities will be shared. This includes, but is not limited to,
supervision of younger children and chores. All daily chores will be
accomplished by 5pm.

4. Your rights are to be clothed, fed, and housed . . . everything else is a privilege.

5. When mom is at work, jumping on the trampoline and swimming in the pool is
forbidden. No one is allowed in the house without mom’s permission, especially
when she is not there. Mom will be notified if and when you want to leave the
house and to where you are going. You may not text or call after the fact.

6. Shawn is not allowed in the house unless mom allows him in the house,
which will be never.

7. During the school year, a C average will be maintained or all privileges will be
lost until your grades have been brought back to a C. Curfew during school days
will be 7pm. Fridays will be 10pm, unless otherwise stated by mom.

8. Mom has the right to say NO. Children do not have the right to question her NO.

9. Your rights are to be clothed, fed, and housed . . . everything else is a privilege
(repeated for emphasis).

10. These policies and regulations can and will be added to and amended solely by

the discretion of Mom. All of these can (again) be summed up in these three
principles. They are: To speak the truth at all times . . . to respect and show
kindness to all family members, especially adults . . . to obey all adults and those
left in charge. 
-------------------------------------------
  This seems reasonable to an N with a 17 year old girl.  What she does not take into account is that D watched those children for over a year.  She helped feed them, and she comforted them when her Nmom was "out"  late...very very late.   Nmom put quite stringent restrictions on D.  D was to be chaste,  "court" only.   
   Then D sees it all only applies only to her.  And on top of that, D lived it; Nmom did not. 

Anyway, does this email seem reasonable?   I think it is outrageous, especially given the circumstances.

   The N will appeal to Heaven and hell. 

[nutella]

BTW, I have a 19 year old virgin with no piercings of any kind, and no tattoos... she is also very bitter.   

[JennyWren]

Gob-smacked. 

Lets all lock our kids out....and then have them arrested. 

The desperate throws of an N who is trying with it`s every breath to cling on to it`s OverLord style control. Kids can be controlled when they are little.....but THEY GROW UP. Then they escape the barbed wire and watch towers....but instead of the N wondering WHY their kid wants to escape N-world control.... still the N builds bigger prisons with minefields and tanks and fearsome airbourne fire-power. These prisons are mental as much as physical.

An N does not understand that MAKING people do things will just breed resentment. They don`t understand about individuality and choice. They don`t understand that kids don`t remain two years old forever...and they`re gonna get minds of their own.

The way Ns parent is very revealing of the way they think generally. It shows how they can`t even conceive of trust....or love...or undividuality.

Non-N parents plan and consider how their kids will go off into the world and make their own choices. And invest in ensuring we have done what we can to help them make good choices......while the N parent is busy down in the cellar conceiving ways of chaining them to the radiator.

N parents don`t seem to understand that Kids grow up...into adults...more than capable of understanding events in their lives. Whether they like it or not.

[HealingDaughter]

Ha. My parents could have written that, Nutella. It amazes me how all the N's apparently read out of the same how-to book for A**holes. Rule number 1: Smother your children with rules and regulations so that they can never live up to your standards and you will always have a reason to tell them how wrong/horrible/lazy/useless/stupid they are so you can feel better about yourself.

[pearlsb4swine]

Nutella, that list of demands is outrageous.  Children are not prisoners of war.  Children are not house slaves.  Children are not self-polishing ornaments whose sole purpose is to make the N look good.  Children are not supposed to be broken like horses.....actually, I don't think horses should be broken like horses either.

If that is your N's attitude towards your daughter in an email that it has written carefully and had time to polish......I shudder to think of the abuse it can dish out when it thinks no one is looking.  My heart breaks for your daughter, and for you.

On the plus side, she has you.  You against the dark side.  My money is on you.

Pearls

[alatariel]

Nutella, that's a letter my "dad" could have written.  Those are similar to the rules I lived by as a teen, and couldn't wait to escape.  When I did escape, I went overboard and it took years to come back to some sense of normality and morals, and by then I was enmeshed with dickhead and living in his amoral world.

As a consequence, I'm probably not strict enough with my kids, but they are somehow decent kids anyway.  Maybe b/c I try to model decency and normality, which is something they aren't going to get from dickhead.

ITA with Pearls, it's you against the dark side, and I'm betting on you.

[HealingDaughter]

AGHHGHGHGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHG!!! My mother just texted me again!

"Love you please let me know you read my msg yesterday."

The woman does not GET IT! Changing phone numbers today. I am soooo tempted to text her back: "You have a funny way of showing it. I asked for boundaries and you refuse to honor them in the very simplest sense. If you really wanted contact with me you would have written the letter I asked you to and sent it by mail. Not tried to contact me every way EXCEPT for what I requested. That right there shows me that you don't care what I want."

Now I have not texted her... but man o man do I want to!

[HealingDaughter]

My husband just pointed out that my mother wouldn't even be able to process that message and because she couldn't understand it, she would take it as an opportunity to assume that I'm the stupid one who doesn't make sense and it would be one more thing to make her feel superior, like she stepped off her pedestal to extend grace to me and I wasn't smart enough to take it.

[whiteflag]

I relate to what you have written.

My story is a bit different in that my FOO is NF and Enabling M with N traits and hugely N sis....I have gone NC with all of them, but there are a few confusing things that I will post in another thread.  I am deciding not to hide so much on this forum---I hide on the forum like I hid in my life....scared to be seen, scared to share, scared to be ridiculed, so I stay small and hidden

I so relate to what you are saying in all respects and what your NM wrote is truly brutal and intended to mind control you.   Makes me very sad and I understand your desire to write back....  It is so dishonoring that she has tried to communicate with you in EVERY means (sans a stork of course) except for the one that you requested....you deserve to be seen, heard and respected....!

I thought of sharing this tidbit I found on a site that I frequent for inspiration...I do not know who wrote it:

I don't think I can link the image but this is what it said:

"Cry as hard as you want to, but just make sure when you're finished, you never cry for the same reason again."

I like this.

I also completely understand how you might feel gutted by your friends response.  I never talk about my life (NC and the mind numbing confusing guilt inducing way they appear to everyone else) to others....it makes me feel extremely lonely to keep it at bay, but lonely is better than the gutted feeling I get from the responses I typically receive...

People either blow off what I am saying as if it's nothing, or give me some typical advice, that confuses me and makes me feel guilty and self questioning...it is only on these forums that I feel validated (and yet i don't share).

Hang in there, know you are deserving   I am thankful for you that you have a loving husband!

huge support to you!  j

[CZBZ]

"God revealed to me this weekend that HE is my father and nothing I do or say can push him away. Also, HE told me very clearly that you are my gift from him. I am your mother and nothing you do or say can push me away. Unconditional love from GOD through me to my daughter! I love you, MOM"

Not the GOD CARD!! 

Can't these people see what they are doing? O I temporarily forgot. No, they can't! They hide beneath the robes of deity, looking at their own arse and pretending to themselves and others, that God is speaking to them because gosh darnit, they are JUST that special. ( I had a rougher Christmas than anticipated and the real troublemakers destroying the peace, were avid churchgoers. It's ironic that the kindest, most forgiving and peace-building siblings in my family don't even pretend to channel God. I've had the God card used against me so many times you'd think I'd be an atheist by now but I'm not. In fact, whenever someone pulls the God card on me, i feel sympathy for their pathetic powerlessness. It's a desperate attempt to make themselves look and feel superior. It is, once again, all about inflating their self-esteem.)

I like what Imogene wrote about using God to 'shame' you. That's a keeper-comment.  Oh the grand superiority of parents who unconditionally love their nasty (re: undeserving) children, eh? Aren't they special?! Aren't you not?

Back to your situation though: I feel that what your mother wrote is more about protecting herself from psychic pain than an indictment against you. She wraps herself in the robes of God, denying her pain, padding herself from the normal grief process every parent feels when a child 'individuates'. Narcissists cannot bear a child's criticism or rejection if they are heavily identified with, and invested in, the parenting role. After all, individuation threatens parental control over children as 'inferiors' (less powerful.)

She sounds very similar to the people in my life who see themselves as vessels of God's love, soothing themselves with grandiose feelings of unity with God, willing martyrs for the love of their children. I think about it like this: when a child ends the enmeshment, the enmeshing parent feels a void--a loss. Rather than tolerate that painful loss and work through it overtime, they fill themselves with spiritual grandiosity. They are basically 'covering up' the work they need to do to build a healthy and loving relationship with their child. This work is painful and ugly and dependent on self-reflection and self-awareness. I don't think narcissists can tolerate this ambiguous space of being imperfect parents, flawed human beings, both good and bad and sometimes ugly. Nor can they tolerate self-criticism which is fundamental to being a good enough parent. Accepting you were a good enough parent is a major accomplishment for most people, ha! But narcissists can't be 'good enough'...they have to be PERFECT which means of course, channeling angelic forces to defend themselves from a truth they cannot bear. If a child challenges their angelic image, then the child is blamed---not the golden calf.

I have utmost sympathy for parents who cannot sustain a child's individuation because when a child struggles free, it is a GIFT to his or her parents! An opportunity to create real love between them as individuals in their own right. As long as a child is enmeshed with the parent, doing everything they're expected to do, the parent is limited to loving themselves, if that makes sense. This self-love is challenged by a child's differences and it is a real blessing because it cracks wide the door on shallow and self-serving love substituting for the 'real thing.' It is too damn bad narcissistic parents cannot see the gift they are being given when a child confronts the narcissistic family system.

I think you have to love your parents in order to even do this work. You know, in your heart, that individuation does not destroy love---it is the foundation to love. You must keep doing the work you are doing, HealingDaughter. 


Hugs,
CZ