NMother trying to get me to respond. :-(

[Snowbird]

My husband just pointed out that my mother wouldn't even be able to process that message and because she couldn't understand it, she would take it as an opportunity to assume that I'm the stupid one who doesn't make sense and it would be one more thing to make her feel superior, like she stepped off her pedestal to extend grace to me and I wasn't smart enough to take it.

That sounds about right. I was about to reply to your previous post about texting her, suggesting you send her one last text---and then change your number!
But alas, I think your husband has her pegged. She won't get it and will somehow use it against you (at least in her own arrogant attitude, even if you never hear about it).

Your mom sounds like the way my stbxnh tries to control his kids by "reaching out" to them. My grown daughter is NC with her dad; he now respects those boundaries but only because he has an equal amount of contempt for her :-( (she is the one who reported him to child services for his abuse of her teenage brothers).

My oldest son who lives out of state has tried repeatedly to get through to his dad, meeting him for lunch when he is in town, and in a series of emails over the last few months. It's been like hitting his head against a brick wall! He was here over Christmas and had lunch with his dad, and the level of manipulation and shaming was so vile that now this son has also decide to go NC.

A little background: my oldest was by far the most abused by his dad, psychologically more than physically. He just left the military and wants to seek therapy before entering the job market, which I thought was a great idea, though a financial hardship. A couple of months ago I talked to his dad, who was spouting platitudes about how much he has changed, and how he would like to do more to "help people". I asked him if that might include helping his grown children...?

He said he'd help financially if our son would provide the invoice and he would ay the therapist directly. ok then...
So, come son's visit and lunch with his dad right before Christmas, reiterating his intention to help. He also told his dad that he was meeting him for lunch because he would not be going over there for Christmas. So far, so good...

On Christmas Eve, son gets summoned to his grandmother's house with the expectation he would drive the 30 miles and spend it with his dad's side of the family (he stopped in when he was here last year). Son did not go, nor did he reply to multiple texts on the 24th, having already stated he wasn't going, and not wanting to be harassed and manipulated.

On the 26th, son gets this email, reading, in part:
As we discussed over lunch I am happy to hear you are getting help.  Understand this has a cost.

I texted you on x-mas eve and called you, didn't get an answer.  (Reminds me of a general trend there) I had the presents and a card for you.  Would like to talk about this one on one.

As far as sending your therapist a check, we need to talk about you are doing long term for yourself.  I assume you want my help not just my money.

(...) I don't want a needy relationship with you, but a mutually edifying relationship, where we don't use each other but build each other up.  At some point I am sure this is the best for both of us.  We do not need a mediated relationship. The money is a secondary issue.

So, he is going back on his word, because son didn't jump through his hoops in just the right way. And accuse son of "using him" because he wants financial help--for problems he caused! After saying he would help.

We are all beyond disgusted with him. And like your mom it really irks him when people don't respond. But he can do what he likes...

[HealingDaughter]

CZ, Snowbird, and WhiteFlag....

Thank you for the encouragement. It is so hard to not want to defend myself. I know that my mother is really screwed up due to her childhood with a severely Nmother and I keep having to tell myself that is why she does not understand or comprehend how much she has played games with my head. I know I can't let her into my life in any way right now and quite possibly forever because it is always going to be detrimental to my emotional health and the well-being of my family unless by some great miracle of God she sees the truth about herself and gets help. I see no redeeming value to having a relationship with her, which is incredibly sad and I'm still mourning the realization that I will never have the loving relationship with her that I wanted and needed. She has objectified me continually... devaluing me and my feelings so much. I just know that I never want that to happen to my son and I know it would happen if we continue to allow my parents to be a part of his life.

I know I have faults as a parent. I'm not perfect and I really don't ever pretend to be. I refuse to pretend. I apologize to him when I get short with him because he's just being an almost-3-year-old. I pay particular attention to my wording and try hard to validate when he's upset about something. Instead of saying 'you're ok' I try to say 'it'll be ok' so that I really am not telling him how to feel. I'm incredibly sensitive to not perpetrating the devaluing I faced every day growing up.

I hate that I'm like this, that I still find myself second-guessing everything I do and feeling like I need to defend myself against the things she and my stepfather do. And then when I try to talk to my close friends about it, it can be a disaster because they simply don't conceive how much what happened has affected me. I try so hard not to be a victim and to learn from all of this. I know I would not be the person I am today if I had never gone through all of this, but sometimes it just really sucks to be in the here and now with all this emotion.

[JennyWren]

AGHHGHGHGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHG!!! My mother just texted me again!

"Love you please let me know you read my msg yesterday."

Please excuse me while I bang my head on the table repeatedly. 

Straight from the N handbook of "Bothering People who have asked you to LEAVE THEM ALONE for a bit"....comes typical N strategy number 43a...Which reads as follows...

"Having sent unwanted communications...the N must wait a period not exceeding a day or two...before pestering the recipient with a text, phone message or mail saying "Just checking you got my message".....or similar"

They all have access to this directive as it is standard procedure.

I mean....WHAT ON EARTH do they think could go wrong? OF COURSE you have received the stupid message. That`s how messages work.You send them to people and they receive them. 

But an N can`t take silence as an answer. They have to keep on prodding in the hope of getting a foot in the door and starting a torrent of guilt laden pressurising conversation. They just need an "in".


The comments above say it all. And I can`t add much.....except to say what a wonderful job you are doing under emotionally battering circumstances. 

[Snowbird]

Plus, you have to have a broken (or very old) phone to not be aware of receiving a text message. I mean, it's easy to overlook a voice mail, or not check email for a day or two. But who doesn't check their cell phone regularly? At least on mine (blackberry), there is a blinking light and a message icon on the screen indicating the number of texts received.

IMO this is yet another control tactic with a dig at your intelligence thrown in for good measure. 'Gee, mom, I had no idea I'd received a text message. Thanks for the heads up!'

They want to exert the control of making you acknowledge them. Even when they were told to back off.

[HealingDaughter]

Yep yep yep. She's forcing her presence upon me through text. Well... as of tomorrow, the only way she's going to be able to force her presence upon me any more is by showing up on my doorstep- which she might do eventually, but I have no qualms about calling the cops if she decides she isn't going to leave. She's made enough threatening remarks I think I might have a case for a restraining order if it comes down to it.

I'm changing my cell phone number! Woohoo!  Take that Vampira!

[alatariel]

Woohoo!  go for it!   

[Rosemary]

Yes HealingD  that works ,i was given an old phone by my daughter and dont use the old mobile .

only my kids have this new number and solicitor etc  .so the STBXNH  cant contact me that way anymore its BLISS !!!

[inflatedheart]

So, he is going back on his word, because son didn't jump through his hoops in just the right way. And accuse son of "using him" because he wants financial help--for problems he caused! After saying he would help.

 

This is so classically N and fits my parents to the tee. A lot of people don't agree that parents should help their adult children financially, but when that parent is an N, that child has never learned how to manage finances, was never allowed to be independent, or had any of their material needs meet or that child is thrust out into the world without guidance or support. Like I've mentioned in other posts, my N-parents wouldn't let me get a part time job in high school because they told me, "school is your job" and they make it clear that it was not "appropriate" for someone of "our stature" to be seen flipping burgers or making lattes. They wanted me to go to a really good college, so when I finally got into said college, I was suddenly on my own with no money, no transportation (they never allowed me to have a driver's license), no winter clothes for the Boston weather. I had to work three jobs in college just to get by. My N-parents are perfectly able to help and they could if they wanted to. They were just down right lazy. If I ever received help from them and I didn't use the money the "right way", suddenly I was a money-grabber, a "gold-digger" or something else equally as nasty. What they fail to see is that they never gave me the chance, from the beginning, to form solid financial skills and credit history. I'm guessing my grades would have been tons better had I not worked so much.
N-sis becomes an extension of them by telling everyone that my DH is just a loser who sits at home and plays video games all day. It is true that my husband had trouble finding work in rural Idaho. My skills were just more marketable and while I worked, he was extremely helpful at home. I guess you could say he was a "house husband"! 

This is a huge source of anger for me; the miserliness, the lying, the extravagant spending...just to shove it in my face that I'm a "failure" financially or something.

[inflatedheart]

Yep yep yep. She's forcing her presence upon me through text. Well... as of tomorrow, the only way she's going to be able to force her presence upon me any more is by showing up on my doorstep- which she might do eventually, but I have no qualms about calling the cops if she decides she isn't going to leave. She's made enough threatening remarks I think I might have a case for a restraining order if it comes down to it.

I'm changing my cell phone number! Woohoo!  Take that Vampira!

I like this name for your Momster! I think it's a keeper! I'm still working on the snarky names I for my N-parents. (Usually, it just comes out as B*tchface.)

I'm not sure what your relationship is like with your N-parents, but from personal experience, when you go NC with N's, confront them, or fail to give them the supply they want, they retaliate and can become very nasty. N-sis spread rumors that my DH was an unemployed, gold-digging, emotionally abusive loser and she plotted to have the family gang up on us and force me to leave him. She also called, texted, and emailed me repeatedly when I finally cut things off with her. DH had to threaten her with police intervention and/or restraining order to get her to stop. NM and NF showed up at my house after I told them that I never wanted to speak to them again, demanding that I accept financial and emotional manipulation instead of an apology. When I confronted NF about past child abuse, he SMILED(!) at me and said, "You just cry to get out things." (I will never forget this chilling memory as long I live!!) Then he told the whole family that I was batty and was "making it up", even though N-sis and brother know about and experienced the abuse, too.

My mistake was not being ready for the harassment and emotional manipulation they employ when cornered or jones'ing for supply. My advice: Have a plan and prepare yourself emotionally for tons of manipulation, intrusive N-proxies, and all manner of nastiness.

[Snowbird]

.A lot of people don't agree that parents should help their adult children financially, but when that parent is an N, that child has never learned how to manage finances, was never allowed to be independent, or had any of their material needs meet or that child is thrust out into the world without guidance or support.

I agree that giving financial help to adult children can be detrimental and actually slow their maturity. But that is for basic life necessities they should be providing for without help from mom & dad: rent, car, food, utilities. If you can't afford a house you live in an apartment, etc. But he is not asking for rent money; it was a specific request for help in seeking therapy after the the abuse he grew up with and more recently seeing his father removed from his home by a judge for ongoing abuse of his teenage siblings.

But then he helped very little financially even when they were young and living at home. My older kids were required to work all through school and pay for their own books and fees as well as any other expenses besides room and board. 'Miserly' doesn't begin to describe it, so we shouldn't be surprised at this latest rejection.

But the song-and-dance over the past year is how much he has 'changed' and how he now wants to 'help people'. Yeah, right.

It was very frustrating for me as their mom, because I always wanted to be generous and fair. But miserly Captain Bligh made that very difficult, calling us all ungrateful, and how the money was all his because he had earned it. At the beginning of his MLC meltdown, my daughter, who had just graduated college and was unemployed for a few months, was hired for a county job. She needed $100 to get fingerprinted and do a background check, so I loaned it to her.
When her dad found out, he called me a liar and a thief for giving my daughter money.

[HealingDaughter]

I'm not sure what your relationship is like with your N-parents, but from personal experience, when you go NC with N's, confront them, or fail to give them the supply they want, they retaliate and can become very nasty. N-sis spread rumors that my DH was an unemployed, gold-digging, emotionally abusive loser and she plotted to have the family gang up on us and force me to leave him. She also called, texted, and emailed me repeatedly when I finally cut things off with her.

Well, that has already started. I've had two very nasty rambling, multi-page e-mails, several 'I love you' brief emails, phone calls, and now the text messages, also pleading by proxy through other family members, ridiculous lies told to the rest of the family claiming my husband is an abusive lowlife who makes me a kept woman and I'm not allowed to disagree with him which is so UNBELIEVABLY ludicrous it's just crazy. The man taught me it was OKAY to disagree for the FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE!!!! He taught me it was perfectly natural to have dreams and desires of my own and that I should pursue those. He taught me I shouldn't have to live with guilt, shame, feeling worthless, or allow passive aggressive guilt-tripping from my mother.

Anyway... I know I'm about due for her to show up on my door step and demand a confrontation, but I'm fully prepared to call the police if she does. I refuse to be manipulated by her any longer and if I have to, I will gather the e-mails I have and the phone calls and text messages, threats, etc. and see what I can do to file for a protective order.

[Snowbird]

The man taught me it was OKAY to disagree for the FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE!!!! He taught me it was perfectly natural to have dreams and desires of my own and that I should pursue those. He taught me I shouldn't have to live with guilt, shame, feeling worthless, or allow passive aggressive guilt-tripping from my mother.

I am very happy for you after all you have been through. It sounds like he will be there to give you strength to do what you need to do regarding your N-mom.

Anyway... I know I'm about due for her to show up on my door step and demand a confrontation, but I'm fully prepared to call the police if she does. I refuse to be manipulated by her any longer and if I have to, I will gather the e-mails I have and the phone calls and text messages, threats, etc. and see what I can do to file for a protective order.

They may never learn, but you are doing this for you and your family. Go for it!!

[Imogene]

I feel for you, being harassed like that.  When I went NC with my pathologically narcissistic brother many years ago, I experienced similar harassment.  (Since X turned out to be a narcissist, too, it's hard to condemn them entirely for never liking him, but my whole family blamed X for the NC, rather than stopping to examine their own behavior.)  I can't even put into words the desperation and panic I felt when he would contact me.  It was like being hunted down--I literally felt like prey.  I hope for your sake that you don't need to file an order of protection, because once you go that route they will hold it against you FOREVER.  Maybe you could try having your husband run interference for you before it comes to that?  Or maybe she just won't come see you. 

It's funny.  When I went NC with my parents, they didn't even object.  I am just not that important to my mother, and my father is very passive and enabling.  They would protest this characterization very strongly if they read it, but it's the truth.

[HealingDaughter]

I was very very heavily enmeshed with my Nmother until I started to realize in my teens that she was contributing monumentally to the poor state of my self esteem with her constant comparisons and grinding it into my brain that I could never live up to her image because she was to be placed in the highest esteem, far above myself. I recognized it wasn't healthy and started distancing myself then, but she has always been uber-clingy to the point of feeling like she had to buy every kitschy 'mother and daughter' saying out there and have it plastered on all of the numerous unwanted gifts she gave me. I recognize it was her way of holding onto her idealistic vision of constant narc supply. It's like she snows herself and the world into believing we had this wonderful relationship, when it was really her hoarding over every aspect of my life to the point she controlled my major life decisions all the way down to what I wore. Every time I tried to distance and do things on my own, I was not praised for being independent and growing up, but rather for not paying attention to her and putting her emotional needs above my own. She 'NEEDED' me, to feel close to me. I didn't call her enough. I didn't want to spend time with her enough. I didn't do this or that. It's only gotten worse the more I've tried to have a life of my own. I made the biggest mistake of my life in moving back in with my parents after my husband and I got engaged. She literally drove me crazy and I believe it amplified the depression I was dealing with already. She searched my room, tried to reinstate a curfew, and even tried to limit how much I talked to my then-fiance/now hubby because I was having too much contact with him. She even caught onto the fact that I would come home so much happier after going out with my hubby that she started outwardly showing jealousy and threw a tantrum one night, saying that I should be just as happy with her and obviously used the opportunity to talk bad about my hubby. It was sick. Almost incestuous. I don't think friends would believe me if I told them half the things she's said to me. Ever since I've been married, she's taken every opportunity to put down my hubby, our marriage relationship, my decorating (because it's not her style), how I dress, how I parent, all the while praising us publicly for all else to see, but beating us over the head with her opinions privately. I do feel sorry for her. She is so desperately needy.

[MoreMyself]

It's funny.  When I went NC with my parents, they didn't even object.  I am just not that important to my mother, and my father is very passive and enabling.  They would protest this characterization very strongly if they read it, but it's the truth.

Ditto with my mother.  It's a bitter pill to swallow, because even now, into my 60s, part of me still really wants to believe that I matter in some way to my mother, that she thinks about me and wants to have a relationship.  But the truth is she doesn't.  In unguarded moments she would let slip things that confirmed it, such as telling me on my once-a-year visits halfway around the world to see her that I didn't need to bother coming as often.  That really got the point across - if a mother thinks seeing her daughter once a year is too often, then like Imogene's mother, I'm just not that important to her.

Now I see the good side of this ignoring behaviour - when I go NC for long periods of time she doesn't even notice.  No harrassment or guilt trips, so at least I don't have to deal with any of that. 

One thing I take comfort in, I'm nothing like her in the intensity of my own feelings and my commitment to my own sons.  If they needed me I would travel around the world for them.  I would miss them terribly if they cut me out of their lives.  So I work hard at building a mutually respectful relationship that we can all live with.  For me it's worth the effort. For my mother it isn't worth the bother to try to have any kind of mother-daughter relationship with me, or even friend-friend.  I'm just someone she knows and talks to occasionally.

[JennyWren]

Firstly HealingDaughter....many cyber-hugs for you  . What you are doing....even though you know it is right...takes a lot of courage. It is easy for the Ns to keep their claws in your emotions...because it seems to me that non-Ns that emerge from the NFOO fog are such deep feeling and sensitive creatures who the Ns have NO RIGHT even knowing. So more hearts for you....     

but my whole family blamed X for the NC, rather than stopping to examine their own behavior.)

This is the ridiculous N-thinking that makes dealing with them...or progressing with them in any positve way IMPOSSIBLE. BigBird`s NFOO have the same attitute to EVERY person who has gone NC with them....or done ANYTHING the N collective disapproves of..... It`s always so-and-so`s fault...and never anything to do with them being profoundly abusive and impossible people.

When BigBird broke the 11th commandment from his NMother "Thou shalt not speak to your father"...that was MY doing. When her own son refused to speak to the NFOO....that was HIS WIFE`S fault. Kids don`t want to see BigBird....that`s MY fault.

It just gives them another scapegoat for their relationship failures....even when they have a list of them as long as their arm...they still keep fobbing off the responsibility. NMiL now takes the position that all righteous Christians throughtout history have been persecuted....and she suffers these relationship failures because the rest of mankind are failures and the bright light of her wonderfulness frightens people...because they look so grubby beside her faultless purity. Or some such rot.