Sorry...still going!..an ickle question about Narcissistic Decompensation

[JennyWren]

Over Christmas I ran into a problem with "well meaning" relatives and friends.

I can explain in words of one syllable why I had to kick BigBird out...just a few examples of abuse does the trick.

But he has told one and all that he was acting out of character...he has told folks he was having a MLC...that his behaviour was outside of his control.

So....consequently...when he tells them he wanted to make amends SOooooooo bad that his feathers were singed from trying....they believe him.

His story is our marriage failed because I refused to go to Couples counselling. When he wanted only to be back together...blah-de-blah.


So....my question is...what are the signs that a person is undergoing the Narcissistic Decompensation thingy....and that this is something showing an underlying problem in their psychology?

It`s not that I want to go about trashing him to his friends and relations. I don`t care what they think. It`s just to get it straight in my head really.

BigBird`s behaviour...as with the other Ns whose behaviours people have explained on the thread about MLC...was actually very scary. Even more so looking back.

It is clear to me now that something was very very wrong.

[Imogene]

It's maddening, what they tell other people.  As I've mentioned before, X's best friend's mother owns--yes, is the CEO of--a multi-million dollar company that has a branch in my city.  I asked him to help me with a job.  If they wanted to, they could help, and I like to think that if they knew how X was behaving they would have helped.  It was a very reasonable request.  But instead, out of "loyalty" to X, they have frozen me out.  Um, why?  What did X tell them that would make these people refuse to help me?  I wasn't asking to hang out with them and badmouth X.  I just needed to support myself and my daughter.

Now, I have a pretty good idea what X could have said, because I had been having an emotional affair with a mutual friend of ours.  X knew about it, and while it was going on he facilitated it--that is, he indulged us.  We had never had a physical relationship, and the emotional connection had been over for some time, and X knew all that, too.  I was honest with him.  There was a time about six years ago when I thought we might actually sleep together, and at this time I seriously contemplated leaving X and not seeing this man again, either--just starting my life over, because it was clearly unhealthy, the whole thing.  But instead the moment passed, and we moved on.

But I suppose X could tell people that I stopped loving him or was using him.  It wouldn't be true, at least not the latter part.  I did stop loving X.  It was never because of the other man, though.  I honestly believe that the emotional affair kept me going in my marriage longer than I would otherwise have been.  Because it gave my feelings somewhere to go.  I was isolated here in Texas, and X was always X.  But I didn't see it.  When the emotional affair ended, the veil lifted, and I began to realize that I could not count on X to meet my emotional needs and that he simply preferred me in a state of abstraction; that X was the one who was using me as a prop for his ego.  I was depressed and beaten down by this time, but I had enough sense on some level to see that I was being mistreated.  That is, continuously lied to and appeased.  It was like walking through quicksand, being with him.   

This is a huge non-sequitur, and I apologize for the thread hijack.  It's taken me a long time not to feel confused because I was literally starved for affection--when I should have been so happy!--from the very beginning of the relationship, even in the time I thought it was a dream come true.  I am literally just starting to see what happened to me.

But I know what X would have said to others.  To his close friends he would say I didn't love him (untrue) and betrayed him; to more superficial friends he would say that it was mutual, because that is what he had the audacity to tell me to my face.  There is truth to all these charges, and that's why I came to this board like a dog with my tail between my legs, filled with self-blame.  But for the narcissism.  But for the narcissism.

Finally, to get to the point.  A narcissistic decompensation is simply that point when the narcissist can't maintain his facade anymore.  The mask doesn't just slip; it bursts off his face and shatters in a million pieces on the floor.  For X,  I think that moment came when the secretary didn't want him.  He was ready to jump ship, but instead he was leaping into thin air.  What can be worse for a narcissist than life without a big ole mirror?  And whose fault was it?  Mine.  He actually said to me, "She lost interest when she found out I was married."  Um, dude, she's met me and my daughter.  She works in your Department, not the planet Mars.  She knew you were married.  She wasn't interested in X because he's an ugly liar.  Clearly, a woman with more self-respect and good sense than me.

BigBird's decompensation probably has a lot to do with the public loss of his family and what that did to his image.  I think it must be a devastating narcissistic injury to him that your girls don't prefer him.  The fact that he is saying you are to blame for not going into counseling indicates that he is well aware of what the public wants to hear--and Brava to you for not falling for that trap. 

[JennyWren]

Imogene...thanks for that. I think I have it clearly in my head now...and I want it clearly in my head so I can hold on to my truth when BigBird`s oh-so-plausible lies start tripping me up with cognitive dissonance.

If I can KNOW in my heart what happened...it doesn`t matter what he says..and what others chose to believe. But I HAVE to have it straight in my head.

This was not just a little oops of an MLC after a lifetime of devoted servitude to me. Which is his story....or part of it.

This was a decompensation of an already disordered personality which I had endured for 20+ years.

With your unravelling understanding of your relationship with X....it sounds like, as for me, it begins to make sense only from a distance...physical distance...and chronological distance.

I think while you are with an N....you are up too close to see properly. And they are masters of clouding people`s minds with irrelevance and blame....and just sheer unhappiness.

When it comes to X steering people to his dark side...and their not extending you help that is completely within their power...that is just crazy-making. It`s so pointless. But an N is so busy protecting their own backside the whole time. And they are so worried that little snippets of truth will get out..so they cut us off at the pass. It`s a premeditated gagging order.

I know that is what BigBIrd has done with people. He has charmed them into believing his Poor Me story. And that`s fine. So long as I KNOW and hold firm with reality.

[MoreMyself]

Oh yes, the victim scenario.  The Hobbit played that one really well.  In fact he was genius at it because he really didn't feel anything.  So it was all acting and so very convincing.  Often when people really have been victimised they respond with outrage, anger and emotions.  But the Hobbit could be very reasonable and sadly tell people his side of the story, which they then tended to believe over that of someone who was being more emotional. 

As to the narcissistic decompensation, the Hobbit's occurred after we sold our business.  His facade included seeing himself as a big important businessman.  But after the sale of the business he was toast in the business community.  Turns out that no one wanted to hire him, partner with him or even go out to lunch with him.  His reaction was to turn his rages onto me more often, plus his sarcasm and verbal abuse.  I'd always been the kicking boy to his royal self but it accelerated and that is when I broke.  I wasn't going to take it anymore.  I defied him and stood up to his accusations.  His next response was to run away.  Coincidentally around that time he met up with someone he had worked with in Canada (before his being fired and running away from that situation).  Somehow in his mind that meeting made him believe that enough time had passed and he could go back to Canada and regain all his former (imagined) glory in the field he had worked in and been fired from 20 years before.  Only this time it wasn't going to include me or our sons.  He announced he was going to move there, buy an apartment, live there at least half of the year.  He didn't appear to care what happened to me.  He also moved a chunk of money from the sale of the company overseas.  I acted fast.  I got the bank to freeze the remainder of the funds which was in a business account with both our names on it.  I asked for a separation.  The rest is history.  At least I secured my financial future. 

I think his decompensation continued over the next few years.  He did go back to Canada, then returned to Australia, then moved all his possessions to Canada, then within 6 months came back without his possessions and said he was returning for good.  My sons said that he fought with nearly everybody in his family in Canada, thus his running back to Australia.  Within a month he had met the NW and bought the gold-digger a house and moved into it (along with her extended family who he now supports).  My sons get no financial support from him.  It appears that the NW and her family are shoring up his facade with false praise and other types of supply, thereby staving off any more decompensation and reaping the reward of getting him to pay some of their bills. It seems a rather precarious situation and only time will tell what happens next.

At least that's my understanding of how it narcissistic decompanesation happened in the case of the Hobbit.

[JennyWren]

Oh yes, the victim scenario.  The Hobbit played that one really well.  In fact he was genius at it because he really didn't feel anything.  So it was all acting and so very convincing.  Often when people really have been victimised they respond with outrage, anger and emotions.  But the Hobbit could be very reasonable and sadly tell people his side of the story, which they then tended to believe over that of someone who was being more emotional.

Owww...doesn`t it make you wanna SPIT NAILS! 

That`s so true...and just an unbearable irony...that to the outside world, the most convincing witness is the lying toerag with a polished performance. It is very attractive to snuggy up to and comfort a poor repentant man soooooo sad. Much more cozy than a distressed traumatised wife confused, outraged and spinning round trying to make sense of the madness and lies.

The one story is familiar and safe. The other asks for too much. Is too challenging to already held views....eg the N in question is so LOVELY 

To believe our story is to ask people to upend all that they know...or think they know...as we have had to do. We do it because we have to. But is is not a comfortable thing to do. So much easier to just chug along with a plausible story from the N...and a prize-winning performance of "Poor Me"


I think I get a clearer picture of what N decompensation can look like. For the Hobbit...the seed was planted with the removal of his right to strut around as the Big Businessman....but the downward slide snowballed, getting more wide-reaching as it went. The leap back to Canada is very interesting....this need to return to a time and place they believe was better....rather than build something new. (Rather like BigBird and the ex-gf)

It seems that as this decompensation effect spreads, their ACTUAL motivations come to the surface.....the act no longer wallpapers over the cracks...and the cracks become bottomless chasms.

He announced he was going to move there, buy an apartment, live there at least half of the year.  He didn't appear to care what happened to me.  He also moved a chunk of money from the sale of the company overseas.  I acted fast.  I got the bank to freeze the remainder of the funds which was in a business account with both our names on it.  I asked for a separation.  The rest is history.  At least I secured my financial future.

Like BigBird...when push came to shove..the Hobbit knew where his priorities lay. MONEY. Once they get past a certain point where their mask has slipped...it seems they just let rip. You know who they are...because you have seen...and they know you know. And that puts a whole new pressure on the decompensation process. They are going to have to make a choice here....are they going to be honest        .....ha ha ha ...and allow you to see them as they are.....or will they create a new reality in which your opinion no longer counts....and protect their false self form the world...and themselves.

There really is no choice there for an N. To be open and honest would lead to therapy and so on. Why would they want to do that?

So they dig their hole ever deeper. You...and anyone else who has seen their true face is immediately dispensable. They create a back story....you are bitter...you are confused and inadequate...WHATEVER works for them. The kids are being controlled....friends are being controlled. ANYTHING to stop the truth from surfacing and screeching "Hobbit...you are SICK!!!" in his ear.

As the process rolls out...the N creates deeper and more complex illusions and fantasies to keep his "Truth" in tact. It`s become a survival thing.

It also becomes a self-fullfilling prophesy. The N acts first out of his mean spirit...The Hobbit removes money....BigBird did the same. So...we react. We protect ourselves. What else can we do having seen that ANYTHING goes. And that fuels the decompensation fire. "Oh holy sh!t"...thinks the N....."SHE really IS an evil money-grabbing witch!".....and now the downward spiral picks up speed...not only does the N suspect we are nasty scheming hags....he now thinks he has evidence. And panics.

His world is now caving in...past the point of no return....and he can`t stop it. He has to work hard at creating a Brave New World of fantastical explanations and viewpoints. No wonder they all start to look so wrinkly and old.

I really think I have just about got to the bottom of my digging and excavating BigBird`s weeny brain now. I think I understand in fairly broad terms his motives and general weirdness. I`m sure I will get to digging again on and off. But I see these Ns as utterly tragic imposter's...con artists....seedy second hand car salesmen with no moral core....no core whatsoever. And the saddest thing is....the person they fool most successfully...is themself. 

[Legs]

<<Like BigBird...when push came to shove..the Hobbit knew where his priorities lay. MONEY. Once they get past a certain point where their mask has slipped...it seems they just let rip. You know who they are...because you have seen...and they know you know. And that puts a whole new pressure on the decompensation process. They are going to have to make a choice here....are they going to be honest        .....ha ha ha ...and allow you to see them as they are.....or will they create a new reality in which your opinion no longer counts....and protect their false self form the world...and themselves.>>


Ding! Ding! Ding! Give that pretty little wren a gold ring!  But not only does your opinion no longer count......now you are a "vindictive bipch" who was only ever after THEM for THEIR money. Not that they had any. I had to buy lucifer a truck right after we married because he got turned down for a 6,000 bank loan! He still has the truck of course and six other vehicles. I have a 12 year old car that I bought to replace a new car I had when I married that was wrecked..the insurance paid for it.

Whatever, "once you know the truth" is the critical statement. That allows them to go nutso trying everything they can to convince themselves and others that YOU are the Bad Witch and you always were...he was just taken in at first by your supposed "niceness".....they try and turn you into themselves. It's amazing and disgusting and unbelievable.


You are just about there Jenny as far as understanding...you can see how it happened but the one thing you'll never know for sure is why. Even if they tell you in a myriad of ways, you still cannot weave those half truths and outright lies into any kind of cohesive answer..you'll have glimpses and suppositions and you can make up a story in your head about what happened to cause whatever else but you will NEVER get to the core of their weirdness because they've spent decades covering it up..even from themselves! They probably don't even understand it, especially if they came out of the womb that way. That's just the way they are. They have a brain malfunction that no one can see because they've spent their lives covering it up.

So much better if they had the Blue Dot Judy Blume theory or whatever her name was...I should go look that up since it's been a million years since I read that....you know, where everyone has a colored dot on their forhead indicating the level of their sexual interest in their own sex? The n's could have an actual n on their foreheads denoting their "type" and "strength" of their n-ness....Lucifer's would cover his forehead all the way down to his wrinkled little pouch of a chin and all the way back to his scrawny neck.


Anyway, Jenny....here I am three years after discovering the real lucifer (I think I am going to stop capitalizing his name as well) and I am really no further along that I was at the beginning regarding the understanding. It just is. They just are. We'll never get it. You and I will wonder about it forever but we will never really know all the parts and pieces. Hopefully one day it'll be like standing on the land watching a ship go down on the horizon......you're too far away to help and what could you do anyway? Besides, the ship is full of monsters, so the best thing really is to hope it's far enough away so that none of them can make it to shore.



Legs

[CZBZ]

Hi Jenny,

As you know probably, i started out like most people do when a spouse is having an affair. I figured it was a midlife crisis like the ones I'd heard about on tv or read about in magazines. A midlife man sowing his wild oats and I should be patient and understanding to keep the marriage together 'cuz surely he'd come to his senses and return. And, like the wonderful people I met who were willing to talk about their affair OR their partners affair, I had no reason to believe my relationship was any different. I remember specifically though, several good friends talking with me about the unfolding of events post-infidelity and that was when I realized that something was very very different about my husband's midlife crisis. One minor point being that he wanted to kill me. This was my intuitive alert to something very wicked my way coming should I continue to use Self-help advice and "wait it out." I figure a lot of you heard the same alarm bells which is terribly disorienting when the person you have loved and trusted, suddenly turns on you like a rabid dog.

When the narcissist's compensatory defenses break down, let's call it the Cujo Effect. A Formerly fluffy St. Bernard goes mad with narcissistic rage. My husband's shocking pleasure in the face of my pain was very different from my friends who said their spouses were demonstrably sorrowful---even repentant having taken their troubles to counselors or therapists prior to telling their partner. When I'd tell them what was happening with my spouse, they were shocked. They could hardly believe what I was telling them. So luckily because of their reactions, I realized there was more to my story than 'spreading oats' and desperate girlfriend's  love notes.

There is an additional thing to watch for with narcissistic decompensation and that is paranoia. Did you notice that suddenly out of the blue, the narcissist suspected YOU of being manipulative, deceitful, even dangerous???!!!!***##!! The resultant cognitive dissonance will break your mind in half! I still have some of the notes my husbaNd wrote to himself during that time period because yes, I snooped. It was unbelievable to see me described as a con-artist sucking off his money for thirty years which was in fact, delusional. My gosh, we didn't have a pot to pizz in for many of those years. He was not only paranoid about his own wife and family, he saw persecution in the workplace----poor old worn-out guy carrying the burden of corporate greed taking advantage of him for decades. He began to choose friends that agreed with his 'beliefs' which mean he had to select an entire NEW group of friends because those who had known us for years would counter his beliefs.

Because his narcissistic defenses were unable to compensate for an onslaught of criticism and failure, he was unable to cope with any criticism from me. Even if it was gentle criticism, or the sadness in my eyes because of his infidelity. Talking about his failure in marriage and at work was akin to throwing a stick of dynamite in his face. He had to run to those who sustained his grandiosity (fantasy!).

This too, was very different from my peers who were recovering from affairs (either their own or their spouse's). I figure most people's self-esteem takes a nosedive when they betray a spouse but they have enough ego strength to tolerate the ego hit and may in fact, be humbled by the experience, grateful to let go of their perfect self and create an even-more loving relationship with the spouse who did not abandon them at the first sign of trouble. Narcissists lack such ego-strength so when their defenses break down, they are flooded with fears of complete annihilation. It is a fear that ought be respected. We may not understand it fully but to the narcissist, our attempts to reach them are interpreted as malicious. They can't tell you that and it doesn't even make sense when your intuition is telling you that but you need to pay attention to your gut and stop listening to self-help advice that is NOT intended for pathological relationships!

When narcissistic defenses break down, the narcissist often becomes unbearably grandiose--in ways you may never have seen them act before.  You may even wonder how you put up with such an azzhole for so many years. (other people will certainly wonder that!) But the truth is that narcissists can get worse as they age. Their narcissistic defenses can't keep up with life's vicissitudes. 

Not all narcissists get worse with age, at least research suggests this to be true. So when a crisis of some kind occurs (or perhaps the N realizes he or she is getting old and never fulfilled their grandiose fantasies), they may reveal their underlying grandiosity that had been there all along.

Along with this fragile state of being, their aggression increases, coupled with paranoid reactions to anyone who does not SUSTAIN their narcissism. What used to be anger or a temper tantrum, has turned into rage.

I'm so glad your still asking questions, Jenny. I see that my spontaneous article on decompensation is on the first page of google links...I should take some time to include a bibilography and clean up the verbiage! I read a lot ( A LOT) and then put the ideas into laypeople language by telling my story and how theories fit in with 'real life'. But I oughta be more careful if a message is being read out of message board context.

Hugs,
CZ

[Imogene]

That message you wrote is posted as an article on the MLC board, CZ.  That's where I first came across it (there's another good article called "Monster" that also resonates for me).

You must have been psychologically more healthy than me, because I really blamed myself.  It's complicated both because of the emotional affair I had and because I am quick tempered.  But everything you write here rings true for me--the rage, the utter lack of remorse, the paranoia, the blame.  What fun times they were!

[CZBZ]

Imogene,

Is it different from this article that is listed on search engines? http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php?topic=6778.0

I haven't been to the midlife forum in ages and didn't know anything I'd written had been posted as an article. I'd like to review what I wrote though.

I figure that one reason why I caught on and learned so quickly at the time, is because I had started unraveling the 'web' of my childhood in 1989. My X left about ten years later. I figure the unraveling of my narcissistic marriage was caused by the family-of-origin work i did in '89. I did not know this would be the consequence of my work. But of course it would be! I changed without realizing the significant changes taking place in myself but believed, because of his 'support', that our marriage would be stronger than ever. This belief, however unfounded it may have been, allowed me to break through the 'false self', the perfectionism, the straight-jacket preventing me from being myself! Funny how life works, isn't it?

I also have very emotionally resilient folks in my family line. One side is afflicted with mood disorders that I believe are biologically based and inherited. Luckily, I managed to escape that burden. At this point, one of my sibs is decompensating which is no surprise. She has never gone to therapy nor seen the need to work on her psychological wounds and now, at 55, she's unraveling. Because of what she is going through, I'm interested in the midlife crisis again. I hope she makes it out the other side before she destroys her life.


Hugs,
CZ

[Imogene]

Yes, I think that's it.  It's on a scroll down page of articles about midlife crisis or mlc and narcissism?  I don't remember, and I couldn't find the site when I just looked.  Your forum was linked to it, though, which is how I found this place.

[CZBZ]

I highly respect Pat Gaudette who manages the Midlife Crisis forum. She was an exemplary role model for organizing a community differently than typical N-forums. Maybe I'll email her and ask about this article. It's strange writing something as quickly as I generally write messages and then seeing it on google!  Or is that just my perfectionism speaking?

I appreciate your validation, Imogene. It means a lot to me. 

Hugs,
CZ

[JennyWren]

......now you are a "vindictive bipch" who was only ever after THEM for THEIR money. Not that they had any. I had to buy lucifer a truck right after we married because he got turned down for a 6,000 bank loan! He still has the truck of course and six other vehicles. I have a 12 year old car that I bought to replace a new car I had when I married that was wrecked..the insurance paid for it.

Gold-digger that I am....when I first went out with BigBird....I was 17. He refused to live with his revolting mother.....and was lodging with family friends. His mother kept the maintenance payments his father sent for BigBird...so MY MOTHER paid for BigBird`s clothes out of kindness!!! BigBird`s car was SOOOO astonishingly cr*p.....you actually had to hold the passenger door shut to close the drivers side..or else it would pop out of its socket. It regularly ran out of fuel because the gauge was busted.

Oh yeah....I was after his money alright! No wonder he latched onto me...and my TOO GENEROUS family.

Whatever, "once you know the truth" is the critical statement. That allows them to go nutso trying everything they can to convince themselves and others that YOU are the Bad Witch and you always were...he was just taken in at first by your supposed "niceness".....they try and turn you into themselves. It's amazing and disgusting and unbelievable.

I guess....since they spend so long pretending to be Mr Nice Guy....when in fact they are Mr Obnoxious Sh!t...it is no surprise that they suspect us of being utter bazturds. It`s perfectly plausible to them. They must wonder all the time if we are really three times worse than them. When we are obliviously just being normal...and exactly who we are.

The stupid little pratts must think everyone is a facade like them.

When the narcissist's compensatory defenses break down, let's call it the Cujo Effect. A Formerly fluffy St. Bernard goes mad with narcissistic rage.

CZ....thanks for feeding my insatiable appetite for understanding! Something just keeps pushing me on to look under all the stones. I like to understand things. And this is.....a little challenging! 

The above quote describes precisely what I saw. His very face was unfamiliar to me. His anger and fear and panic made him wild and unpredictable.

By "compensatory defenses"....are we talking about the N`s abilities to act out the False Self performance. The "Good Boy" act? So.....this ability breaks down....and the rather more unpleasant side comes out.

Don`t we all do that when we....for example....get to the end of our tether. Like this evening....when the kids were whingeing on about how much pizza they had compared to one another...and I found myself just losing it over pizza....and wildly insisting that they just eat mine while they`re at it....and having a hissy fit.

Is it a similar event to that....only just so much more to come out. So much more at stake.

I am letting out my irritation that the kids are greedy over pizza.....while BigBird is letting out his whole life.

Something triggers the N to just say "To h*ll with this game......it`s not working for me"....and then they "let it all hang out".

Is that why it is called "DE-compensation"....because it is the letting down of compensatory defences?....I think the penny is dropping here. 

There is an additional thing to watch for with narcissistic decompensation and that is paranoia. Did you notice that suddenly out of the blue, the narcissist suspected YOU of being manipulative, deceitful, even dangerous???!!!!***##!! The resultant cognitive dissonance will break your mind in half! I still have some of the notes my husbaNd wrote to himself during that time period because yes, I snooped.

This bit was HORRIBLE.

The first really nasty evidence of this was when he was organising his six month "trial run" at living "by himself"  . He announced to me.....very aggressively...that he would have the girls every other weekend and one school night each week. Without thinking...I just reacted (but perfectly calmly...and I thought reasonably) that that might not be very stable for the girls...and that if they didn`t feel comfortable with that....it shouldn`t happen.

Honestly....you would have thought that I had just announced I was Hitler reincarnated. He started hopping about the kitchen like a small scalded frog. He was actually screeching....and his eyes were bulging in that way only an N can when they have totally lost it.

He`s screeching "O M G....you are trying to ostracize me from MY OWN CHILDREN....I don`t believe it...how could you....this is disgusting..." blah-de-blah.

I stared momentarily open mouthed in horror.Thinking "WHAT is he talking about?"....before leaping into default "Calm idiotic hysterical man down" mode. But it was too late....by now I am "Just like his mother". Which...of course....was his innermost fear he had been harbouring.

This was the first of many such performances. I was a money-grabbing using manipulative b!tch. I had never loved him. I was just like his N mother. I was abused as a child. I was having a nervous breakdown. You name it...I was it.

And yet....this behaviour was interspersed with proclamations of how lovely and kind and patient and loving I was. I guess this was a nice little Splitting Demonstration. But it really made my head spin. While my broken heart clammered to keep beating.

Not a fun combination.

This was why I can join you on the "Naughty Step" where the snoopers sit.  Snooping was my only hope of understanding what was REALLY going on. Like you....I found some pretty shocking stuff. A bottomless pit of selfish nasty-think.

So...I am interested in the idea that...once the dam of Narcissistic defences is breached...watch out....coz it`s gonna blow! There must come a point when the pressure builds behind those defences....and the seepage can no longer be maintained. Then BOOM.

Beyond that point...everything is trashed...and attempts to help the N actually make it worse...why would they need help from YOU? Are you saying something is WRONG with them?...No....clearly there is something wrong with YOU.

I found the whole "MLC" behaviour thing profoundly disturbing. And I think I am only now beginning to realise how much. As you say....a man who you have known intimately for decades suddenly becomes a deranged illogical and dangerous man in front of your eyes. And you are blamed for it.

I suspect I will come back to this one. Repeatedly. I still see his contorted fearful face in my mind as though it were yesterday.

I really have gone on a bit. Apologies 

[Snowbird]

Jenny wrote:
This was the first of many such performances. I was a money-grabbing using manipulative b!tch. I had never loved him. I was just like his N mother. I was abused as a child. I was having a nervous breakdown. You name it...I was it.

And yet....this behaviour was interspersed with proclamations of how lovely and kind and patient and loving I was. I guess this was a nice little Splitting Demonstration. But it really made my head spin. While my broken heart clammered to keep beating.

Not a fun combination.

My hat's off to you, Jenny, for seeing this and making your exit in a timely manner. The above could also be said about my stbxnh, Captain Bligh,,,,,but alas, the performance took place over a number of years before I was able to escape it.

The anger, judgment and criticism were really there all along, but the N-rage began in earnest----now that I think of it---not long after he turned 40.  Hmmm, seems to be a pattern here.
The first real instance of rage had me quivering in a sobbing blob on the kitchen floor. Looking back, it was a real turning point in the "marriage".

Unfortunately, that was only a little past the halfway point ultimately, and I hung on for another 12 years. I not only had several children including a couple of preschoolers and one still in diapers, but because of his successful isolation he imposed on me I was 2000 miles from my family and any "friends" were marital friends who saw his act/mask and wouldn't believe me.

He went on to spend the next decade+ blaming me for everything that went wrong on the house, with the kids, etc, etc, suspicious and accusing....and then turning on the charm when it suited his purpose. Always his purpose!

Frankly I don't know how I made it through in one piece to this point, but here I am, looking forward. 
But all this talk of Decompensation made me realize in retrospect there really was a definite line of demarcation.
I'm happy for those who can get out of the FOG in time 

[JennyWren]

Hi Snowbird! I guess these covert Ns are as individual in the way they emerge from their disguises as snowflakes...though much colder....and more inert. 

To elaborate on BigBird`s metamorphosis from covert abusive N...to raging maniac...

He was ALWAYS an N....always controlling....always emotionally abusive...sometimes verbally...with the odd rage thrown into the mix. Right from the very beginning. And I stayed with him....for all the familiar NFog reasons.

I see the marriage as "death by a thousand cuts" for me....for 20 years....and the previous 4 years I had been his girlfriend before we married. Then he got out his machine gun...jumped out of his covert bunker...and made it perfectly obvious what he was.

This thread is me still fumbling about trying to understand the leap out of the bunker (the decompensation)....which was terrifying. HOWEVER...the positive side of it was that it FORCED me to start a long old hike out of the two decades of fog....climb out of the psychological well BigBird had dug for me and carefully lowered me into...all the while stroking my hair so thoughtfully about how sick and inadequate I was.

The more I get clear of the Fog....the more like some whacky psycho film the marriage becomes. Only not extreme enough...not enough evidence for anyone to see but me....and those who have also been through it.

I wish I could say that I got out in good time. I wish I could say that I had had enough sense....or intuition....or whatever to see what was happening. I didn`t.

All I knew was that I was desperately lonely....very unhappy....very isolated....feeling like a failure as a wife...a failure as a mother...a failure as a human. Slowly but surely these things crept up on me. I was not even consciously aware of any of it. I do remember a dawning realisation that I would...at some point...need to get out. I had fuzzy ideas of waiting until the girls were independent...and then just walking out. I felt this would be the ultimate admission of my failures....but I also knew that BigBird was draining the life out of me. I just didn`t see it clearly....and none of it registered in a tangible conscious way.

I dumped all the problems at my own door...because BigBird had carefully explained all that was wrong with me. I didn`t know about projection. Or mirroring. Or gaslighting...or any of these other abuses Ns live by...so I earnestly sucked it all up. And dumped it all on my own head.

I DID know that I thought BigBird a very selfish man. A very unsupportive man. And a terrible father. But...as he had established....it was ME that brought these things out of him. 

If BigBird had remained in his covert hideout.....I have no idea what would have become of me. He really was just so corrosive...jabbing away at me...while smiling his adoration...and performing his flawless Mr Nice Guy act to one and all.

Two things contrived to save me. Firstly BigBird`s profoundly troubling decompensation/ N-style MLC....and secondly the fact that BOTH my daughters saw their father through unblinkered eyes. Even when I was STILL trying to fix the "Happy Family"....they both insisted that their Ndad be chucked out. That was a real eyeopener!!!

I think i have to understand the relationship in terms of the general every day N abuse for countless years.....and THEN a phase of decompensation, when his behaviour degenerated with speed and shocking consequences.

[CZBZ]

You've got it, Jenny! Narcissistic decompensation sounds high-falutin' and technical. It's just a fancy way of saying someone's defenses can't keep up with the onslaught of reality. Consider grandiosity (one of the defining features of narcissism). I'll bet everyone can identify with grandiosity more or less to some degree. The idea that you will write the next best seller when you've never even kept a diary might be a good example. Or your aspirations to be the next World Leader for Peace when you can't even get along with your sister could be another example.

As long as you can keep up the pretense that you are awesome and superior, the best of the best, top dog---no problem. Your narcissism remains unchecked because your life mirrors your grandiosity. I figure that is why many long-term Ns were able to slide under the radar for so long---they WERE moving up the ladder, increasing their status, achieving the success they expected to have. They could be nice to us 'underlings' as long as their narcissism wasn't challenged.

When, however, real events in life threaten grandiosity (overt or covert grandiosity), narcissistic defenses break down. That's decompensation---but using the term 'break down' works just as well and doesn't sound intimidating . 

This is one reason why I think narcissists decompensate/break down at midlife. They must admit their limitations as we all do...challenge those grandiose fantasies which may never have been acknowledged consciously. They believe, whether overtly expressed or not, that they are destined for fame-and-fortune. When they don't achieve the status they believe they deserve, we hear them bemoaning their station in life, their lousy menial job when they should be running the company, their crappy family comprised of everyday people who aren't on the cover of Time, and you know the drill...all the ways their grandiose self goes unrecognized by the idiotic herd. All us sheeples who are so weak we don't mind being sheeples.

Fame and fortune was theirs to be had were it not for (fill in the blanks) because along with narcissistic decompensation comes BLAME. Fingers pointing outward. Or in your face as many of us experienced. The big fat finger of red-faced fury blaming YOU for all that ails the narcissist, every failure, every set-back, every mistake.

When narcissists are more of the shy type (covert narcissism), they may very likely become depressed. Even clinically depressed. This was our consensus on WoN even though literature suggested  narcissism was an anti-dote to depression and narcissists were not prone to depression. I stored a research article in the narcissism library yesterday that corroborates what WE discovered by talking to each other. I wonder if covert narcissists are even aware of their self-aggrandizement? But it's there...you'll know it when they can't adjust to being 'average'. Even death, the great leveler of us all, is a narcissistic injury to the pathological personality.

Like you Jenny, my X compared me to his wicked stepmother and the only thing she and I had in common was our gender. When he told me I was like his mother, it floored me. Stunned me. I was defenseless for awhile because I tried to make sense of an accusation that was nonsensical. He was scary at that point, really frightening. The underlying rage projected onto me was irrational. It was the rage of a pre-rational infant flailing his fists at a cold and rejecting world.

There are some inner children that ought never be released from the well.  Whenever I watch The Ring, I think of all the pathological narcissists in our world that should keep a lid on their inner child. That means: keep those defenses in top-notch condition: You are the best! You are superior! All hail to the Chief!


Hugs,
CZ

[Imogene]

I wasn't compared to his mother.  I just BECAME her.  He had a certain horrible voice he used to imitate her grandiosity, and suddenly he was using that voice to imitate me.  And faults though I have, grandiosity is not one of them.  Not that is needs to make actual sense.  To them it makes psychological sense, as they cycle from good mom to bad mom.

The awful thing is, I started feeling like his mother.  Like the mother of an angry, hateful teenager who sits holed up in his room with the earphones on. 

X is still a child.  He bought my daughter a fleece she wanted, that was expensive.  He told her she could have it if they didn't go out to eat for the next four nights.  Then he told her she had to wear it whenever she was at his house, no matter what.  She's spending the night there tonight.  I checked the weather, and it's going to be pretty cold tomorrow.  So I had her wear her winter coat, because she walks to school at 7:30 in the morning from his place.  She needs a real coat, not a fleece.  She was very upset, saying that he would be mad at her--for disobeying his order that she be improperly dressed for the weather.  Like a kid playing house, he makes up rules that don't have any logic to them.  I don't want to get in a power struggle with him, but where basic safety and common sense are at stake, I have to draw a line.

Sorry--a bit off topic.  I think this mother/child thing is central to the midlife decompensation thing, though.  They never grew up even though they have learned how to do adult things.  At midlife they reject the authoritative role they secretly relied on your assuming, because they could only learn to do so much.  They're not like a man who reverts to his teenage years by dating young women and buying a sports car.  They are not sowing their last wild oats.  Instead, they were pretending to be adults.  Left to their own devices, they barely know how to be children, as X's "disciplinary tactics" with my daughter show.  They don't know how to BE.  That's what makes them so dangerous.

[Liftedup]

I read somewhere the Ns unravel with age.

I wish I could remember where, but as they AGE they GET WORSE,

and this may be what happened.

Midlife crisis my foot.

Midlife crises are where people EXAMINE THEMSELVES. Heck I am in ONE now. I am not even sure Narcs can have one!!

They never grow up. That is what I am contending with. They stay perpetual children and in my case, mine wants to drag me down down down.

Mine I think could be cracking up watching the career fade away, and realizing he never achieved the fame and name, that he built his whole life up on.

One person I know here told me, he elevates himself above others, he seems himself as 'BETTER", I said you got that right.

Looks like some of you are facing what I am, the OUTSIDERS always believe the N.

They have the charm to FOOL.

It took me 6 months to even describe to the companion aide the real deal with him.

They will blame you.

Often the victim remains outside, while outsiders blame them, they believe every word that comes out of the Ns mouth.

Mine acts like he worships me in public....'He really loves you"

which makes my life harder in even telling people, "hey this really sucks behind closed doors, he is not the husband you all think he is."

Yeah I am used to the rich people working at great companies who refuse to help and let you sink in unemployment. Even N father worked at high level job and refused me a mere secretary job after college, though I was poorer then dirt. They do nothing to really help elevate others. I think they like keeping whoever they can poor, so they can have more power with the money.

[Liftedup]

When the narcissist's compensatory defenses break down, let's call it the Cujo Effect. A Formerly fluffy St. Bernard goes mad with narcissistic rage. My husband's shocking pleasure in the face of my pain was very different from my friends who said their spouses were demonstrably sorrowful---even repentant having taken their troubles to counselors or therapists prior to telling their partner. When I'd tell them what was happening with my spouse, they were shocked. They could hardly believe what I was telling them. So luckily because of their reactions, I realized there was more to my story than 'spreading oats' and desperate girlfriend's  love notes.

I have seen CUJO come out and yeah its scary.

They go from fluffy to frothing at the mouth in a instant.

Mine goes ballistic when I tell the truth about what he is.

They have no empathy. I have been sick, and if he wasn't getting his supply he will act all pissed.

Sorry yours cheated on you.

For me any cheating is a dealbreaker. I still think he is LOOKING. In his case, he is so poor no one will have him. There is this one woman he is constantly texting. She lives far away but is enamored of him big time.

I feel for anyone who went through that, that had to be so painful.

[alatariel]

He had a certain horrible voice he used to imitate her grandiosity, and suddenly he was using that voice to imitate me.

   Holy crap!  I thought dickhead was the only one who did this!!     That's it, exactly, he used the same nasty, voice to imitate me that he always used to imitate and mock his vile mother. 

[lavender]

stbxnh loves to play at being the martyr and he does it so very well...there are only a few of us who are privvy to his real self and the rest of the world believes he is a hard working and hard done by loyal family man..."cough-splutter-choke-gag!"

[inflatedheart]

They go from fluffy to frothing at the mouth in a instant.

Mine goes ballistic when I tell the truth about what he is.

They have no empathy. I have been sick, and if he wasn't getting his supply he will act all pissed.

Were we separated at birth? 

NM used to, pathetically, shift from total martyr ["Oh I just CAN'T do this..won't you help me? I'm just no good at this stuff...I am terrible at everything..why do you love me?"] to, the  rageful and hateful ["You don't think I'm any good! All I'm good at is cooking and cleaning, is that it?! That's what you want me to! BE A PROFESSIONAL MAID. I HATE YOU!"] in literally seconds. You can't even get a word in because they're diva'ing in and out of character. At some point I just throw my hands up and let her ruminate! No use in trying to do anything about it. Either way, I'm not going to give her what she wanted!

[MoreMyself]

I have read this thread with great interest as it occurred to me that there was a good chance, if Narcissistic Decompensation had not happened with the Hobbit, we might still be together.  Because for 30 years I had turned myself inside out to make things work.  And I was getting older and like everyone, didn't really want to face old age on my own.  Better the devil you know than none at all, so to speak.  But this new phase of his made up my mind for me.  As CZ said, I got blamed for holding him back, because he said he could have achieved great things if I hadn't held him back.  Which left me speechless, in pain.  I had given up my own career, followed him halfway around the world, stayed home to raise his children, gone to his stupid dinners and played the supporting wife with no opinions of my own.  When he wanted to buy a business I'd supported him in that, even though I'd had reservations.  When he wasn't doing well with it and he asked me to come in and run admin and finance, again I didn't want to, but I wanted to support his decision and help him succeed.  To be blamed, then for some imaginary failure where he could have been truly great (I'm not even sure how he defined that), it caused so much more pain than finding those condoms in his travel kit.

But I digress.  What I wanted to ask is if anyone here has or is staying with their N through Narcissistic Decompensation?  What happens afterwards?  Does the N revert back to more normal behaviours?  Or spiral more and more into rages/blaming and whatever other tools they have in their Decompensation toolbox.  The literature on ageing Ns is contradictory.  Some says that research shows that they soften and get less narcissistic.  Anecdotal evidence from this website (and the two others I have been on) says the opposite, that they become more hardened into their narcissism, more difficult.  SInce most of us have left or are in the process of leaving, I might not get an answer.

After the Hobbit left, there were five years of behaviours that were off the chart with him.  Multiple attempts to start a new career, many different women, moving several times from country to country.  Bragging wildly to our sons about what he was doing.  Then two years ago he came back for good, met a woman and a month later bought her a house and they moved in together.  He now appears to have simply recreated a very similar version to what we had, the domesticity, the life in the suburbs (after complaining to me for years that he hated the burbs).  Her adult son has even moved in with them, replacing I suppose our own adult sons who he also complained that he hated having live with us.  He has bought a business but not of the size of the one we had, has set up a retirement fund after refusing to start one with me (I know this because the bank sent the confirmation email to his old email address which is still mine).  What was the point of it all, if he has gone straight back to what we had?  Does he ever wonder, in a fleeting reflective moment, about his own role in this hurrican that he caused?  I already know the answer, which is no, of course not.  In his mind it was me that destroyed everything.

[tango3]

Moremyself I too would probably still be living in misery if Toad hadn't gone through MLC and decompensation.  Like you I'd given up a good career, travelled half way around the world, had his two children, sacrificed everything to support him.  Stuck with him when he put us $100K in debt.  I reluctantly supported his desire to buy the business, like you I ended up having to work for him to get him out of the mess he made with the finances, and then when things were going smoothly (i.e. he was making money) he decamped. 

He went back to his FOO living out on LI (a place he claimed he always detested and never wanted to live), moved in with my replacement who was supplied by his sister, into a tiny, ranch house (I'm sure he's busy improving it), and is now living, in his mind, this awesome life with people who "appreciate" him.  Yeah whatever.   Oh and he got himself a dog (the dogs were one of his major complaints - well yeah if I'd actually had a HUSBAND maybe I wouldn't have needed to immerse myself in the dogs to fill the void).

And no, I don't think he has ever reflected on what he has done.  In him mind he was justified because I am just this horrible, malicious, bipch

[JennyWren]

I have read this thread with great interest as it occurred to me that there was a good chance, if Narcissistic Decompensation had not happened with the Hobbit, we might still be together. 

It is with that chilling thought in mind that I have been thinking about this MLC/decompensation stuff. It makes me run ice cold to think how I would have become so utterly and desperately depressed at feeling a total failure...while using every shred of energy left to try to make things better.....and then I just know there would HAVE to come a point when just to look at my weary sad countenance would be enough to have BigBird make "alternative arrangements" in any case.... "MLC" or no "MLC".

What I wanted to ask is if anyone here has or is staying with their N through Narcissistic Decompensation?  What happens afterwards?  Does the N revert back to more normal behaviours?  Or spiral more and more into rages/blaming and whatever other tools they have in their Decompensation toolbox. 

Well...here`s a whole new avenue to explore...and a mighty dark and forbidding one too! I know Julia has written about her XNs eventual improvement in attitude towards her since his MLC. But I don`t recall any other examples of anyone experiencing anything but more trouble than ever.

I think theoretically...an N...once their compensatory mechanisms have broken down..and they have gone through the wild and scary bit....the N could find new compensatory mechanisms to hide behind....and hold up a shiny new self to the world. But we...the witches that we now are...would not be allowed near enough to peek.

I suspect...though I base this on absolutely nothing other than instinct and guesswork....I guess that once the N has lost his/her marbles so markedly...they are just going to end up with an even more convoluted warped false self and back story to hide behind. Ever more daft explanations for the sh!t trail they leave behind them.

I imagine that the only thing that might stop this downward spiral into pompous ridiculousness (such as my NMiL...who I continually mention is now so deluded she thinks she is God`s best mate. )...would be a spectacular MLC that leads to some kind of unavoidable intervention by medical professionals...a diagnosis...and an actual desire for help.

I think BigBird came within a gnat`s donger of reaching out. And I do believe if mad-gf had not been there coaxing him to come to her with a trail of M&Ms...like E.T......I do believe he might have sought help. He was frightened. And sometimes he would just cry and say he didn`t know what was happening to him....and he wanted it to stop.

But when you have a choice between your wife offering to support you to face your demons square on...and a mad-gf acting like a teen cheerleader toward the captain of the football team...well....it`s not much of a choice is it?

Don`t get me wrong here...I am MUCH better off this way. What a miserable existence to be still embroiled in BigBird`s world. But...I would have done it.

So...what happens afterwards is probably largely dependent on how successful the N is at creating a whole new afterlife. A new creation of themselves. And whatever they create...we will be swatted like flies in the new order. How could they hold two opposing realities side by side?

And...oh no!...a new thought has popped into my head...and I am wondering if the depth of the decompensation thingy is proportional to the depth of N-ness of the N?

If the N has very elaborate compensatory defences...then...as they were broken down...it would be a spectacular affair. The greater the defenses...the bigger the "MLC" explosions...and fear...and anger...and confusion.

It is actually a very horrible thing NPD. Though so many of us have been saved by a narcissistic MLC....it is NASTY.

 

In him mind he was justified because I am just this horrible, malicious, bipch

And this is the most horrible thing of all...though we can grow to understand what happened....they never will. And part of their ignorance is that...in order to forge ahead..with their heads so firmly shoved up their own butts...we are the perennial villain. When in fact...we were the best chance at real life they ever had. And they trampled us into the mud.

Oh dear. How depressing. 

[tango3]

Not really depressing Jenny   Because we, (and I mean us collectively on WoN) are much better human beings than our N's could EVER hope to be.  We aren't trampled into the mud (except in the N's disordered minds), like phoenixes we rise from the ashes of our dead marriage/relationships - for us it is a re-birth - wiser, more compassionate and better people than we were before