so, what still bugs you about N-behavior?

[alatariel]

Some recent posts got me to wondering what still bugs each of us about N behavior.  What niggling thing do you find it impossible to wrap your head around?

For me, it's wondering how much of their actions are conscious.  Does dickhead really sit there and think, "I'm going to leave her sitting around waiting and wondering every day whether I'm coming to get the kids or what time I'm bringing them home.  That way, she can't make plans and she doesn't dare leave the house in case she's not there when I drop them off.  And if she doesn't accommodate, I get the bonus of being mad at her for it and making her feel like crap."

I mean, really?  Does anyone actually think like that?  Is he even smart enough to figure that out?  But it's so obviously a control issue, he's so blatantly trying to control my life by doing this, can it possibly be unconscious on his part?

[Legs]

Did he plan it all from the start? I'd have to say yes, because he had a girlfriend before we'd even gotten married! An old girlfriend all the way back from the time when his fist wife died/was dying. Either he was with her from before she actually died or else he took up with her immediately following..like the day of the funeral probably.....

I think he knew I had admired him and liked him and his family, and I think he thought "Hey, she'd be perfect." he said during our "courtship" that I was an "open book"....all the better for him. He wanted someone that would be true without having to bother to do that himself.


Maybe Lucifer was just a philanderer, but when the truth came out, that's really when I saw the Huge n that he was only I didn't know what that was...I thought he'd had a stroke or some kind of brain disease or medical event. I can't go into all that again because I appear to be in the middle of yet another giant depression where all I can bear to do is stay in bed and ove-rmedicate.


I really must get some booze or some illegal drugs or something. Is it the moon? She's almost full and they do say people get wackadoodle right now.

Plus, I have been sick off and on since Christmas with some weirdo stomach thing that includes some other symptoms that just don't make any sense, so I have decided it's a stress thing. Why I am so stressed I do not know except that I dearly hate the entire time period between Thanksgiving and Valentine's Day. One more month.

A friend of mine thinks I have S.A.D., but she doesn't understand that would be impossible to have here in West Texas as the sun shines about 360 days a year. I am so slef-occupied and not in a good way. I just keep thinking what a waste of time all of this is and why even bother. It's not going to ever end well for anyone, least of all me.


I am not going to bump myself off  because I would never willingly give Lucifer that kind of delight ever again in his nasty remaining days, but if it wasn't for that I swear I don't think I'd bother to get dressed. Which is my big plan for the day...take a bath, get dressed and then we'll see.

Maybe I cut back too much on my Prozac but really, I can barely get into anything to wear and I feel like a huge pig made from lard. How I wish I could manage to make myself do SOMETHING like my dear Ala......I read about her bike and it makes me <shiver> and not with annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnticipation.

So my lovely Chix......I wonder why it is that I only post here when I'm in the depths of despair or feeling pretty dang good..there is no  middle ground with me. I am still as manic depressive as the come it seems or else I feel leaded and zombielike..........I don't seem to have any "normal" anymore. Blah, blah....tres boring.


But I do still wonder about what was real and what wasn't. Have tried my best to Discount It All or at least believe that Lucifer and I were operating at such different levels that it really doesn't even bear thinking about. I can never ever get to the place where I can understand what he was thinking because he thinks like a shark or a mass murderer or in some way that I just can't comprehend.


Anyway, yes. It's been over three years since I found out about his Secret Life and somedays I still cannot believe the Entire Thing.


Legs

[kindheart]

Gee, so many things do! 
a.  The total lack of caring about my feelings.
b. The total lack of remorse.
c. The total lumping of blame and guilt on my shoulders when I did nothing wrong.
d. The betrayal.
e. The total denial of events that happened.
f.  The verbal abuse.

And yet, I still miss my "frieNd".  No, I rephrase that - I miss the person I thought she was.  Its a total mind bending experience.

[CZBZ]

"What niggling thing do you find it impossible to wrap your head around?" !Alatariel

Their obliviousness. Their total self-absorption. Their inability to introspect and CHANGE. Going around and around the same damn problem for year after year and never noticing they were the cause of their problems. The unbelievable ability to 'relate' to people for decades, yet callously discard them.

Depending on the degree of narcissism we're talking about, I'd say the most baffling and frustrating thing is the narcissist's lack of self-awareness. They hurt people and they don't know it so they don't stop.

With a pathological narcissist, the most baffling thing is their awareness. They hurt people and they know it and they won't stop.

GREAT question!


Hugs,
CZ

[Imogene]

The sense of entitlement.
Their insistence that YOU believe the lie.
The absence of a sense of humor about themselves.
The self-righteousness.
The lack of remorse.
The perception that they know best about things they know nothing about.
The subtle bullying.
The self-pity.

Etc.

[NewWings4MeNow]

All the lists here put together.

Well, I could say how much they do NOT care, how much they know what they're doing.

But what bugs me about N-behavior, given that they wander within society, is that our educational system doesn't teach kids that there are different ways people are taught and grow up and are wired.  I guess this is so that (American) kids aren't taught that the world is an unsafe place, but most of the rest of the world already makes their kids aware that aspects of the world are not safe. 

For me the icing is The Lying, The Lying and The Lying -- and why they don't suffer more explicit social consequences for how egregiously it occurs.  This would not have happened in, oh, Plymouth, Mass in the 1600s ....  Yes, I'm archaic.  Moreso by the year.

NewWings4MeNow

[MoreMyself]

Their obliviousness to the fact that their behaviour is not normal.  And the other side of the coin, their conviction that the behaviour of others is always at fault and often abnormal. 

NewWings, interesting what you said about Plymouth Mass in the 1600s.  I traced ancestry back to then and got interested in reading the original court records of the Plymouth court.  In one case the body of a child was found in the mother's house, with only the mother there.  There was evidence of violence.  At the time it was believed that a murderer would show their guilt if they could not touch the body.  So they brought the body and the mother into court and asked her to prove she was innocent by touching it.

What struck me in reading this was how easy it would have been for a psychopath to fool everybody.  Of course when they did determine a person was guilty they were very speedy in dispensing the death penalty. No appeals or waiting on death row.  But I think I know what you mean.  Their villages were closed societies and people didn't just move from one to another easily.  So I would agree that someone with a propensity to lying would soon be discovered and probably ostracised or even forced out.

[Rosemary]

The Lies Lies Lies ALL the LIES
also i never knew what he was saying ,when he was talking about something ,it was all disjointed thinking .

my mind was following the first part >>>then it would flit to something else unconnected to the first part  ,this is how it went on ,so at the end of conversation i never knew what he had said ????
All part of the confusing you !!!
Just like someone put up about the letter her N wrote when he left her  that was disjointed too  .

Having No feelings Cold and cruel  no empathy at all .

[JennyWren]

What bugs still bugs me about N behaviour?

I can tell you EXACTLY what is bugging me RIGHT NOW!

Even when you work your butt off trying to make sense of all their little revolting ways outlined above.....THEY STILL KEEP ON BOTHERING YOU EVERY THREE SECONDS.

That`s what bugs me...why won`t they go away?????? 

[Legs]

It's midnight there! Why is he bothering you now?????????? Khan't yew jost say Flock Off Big Bird and stop bugging me!!!!!!!!


legs

[inflatedheart]

Projection. I am still trying to understand it. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Intellectually, I can understand the concept but I really struggle to identify it and resist it!

[JennyWren]

I completely agree about projection.

I can follow the process of how it works...and I can imagine having a lot of stuff you are uncomfortable about...but the bit where you can actually dump it all on somebody else and detach it from your self is so surreal.

I see it at work in all the Ns...and the best way I can relate to it is with the realisation that I do it too!......In that I endow BigBird with humanity he does not possess....because it is second nature to me. My projection is an assumption I make that BigBird thinks like me...and so his projection is probably something like that...but on a bigger scale and with a whole dramatic production and extensive back story imagined up to prop up his delusions.

It is still bizarre. and terribly confusing when you get lost in the projections and don`t know where you end and the projections start.

[JennyWren]

PS.....Legs....BigBird wasn`t bothering me AT midnight...he had bothered me via the medium of the cursed e-mail earlier in the evening....and I was still fuming. His interfering rabid blabberings are like stoking me with rocket fuel....it takes a while to burn off!

[pearlsb4swine]

Projection is a big one all right.  Because I simply can't relate to it. 

My xnh once told me he thought my hair was thinning.  I hadn't noticed anything, so I mentioned it to my hairdresser, who looked at me like I was nuts.  We referred to my hair as "the pelt" because of the way it grew.  Of course it was his hair that was thinning.  The crazy thing was, he actually had me wondering if I was losing my hair!! 

It's so bizarre.   

Pearls

[alatariel]

The first time troll discarded me, when she wanted to reconcile she accused me of pushing myself on her and trying to make our friendship into something more.  The odd thing was, at that time I didn't feel "that way" about her, I just saw us as platonic friends. I was gobsmacked and shocked b/c I didn't think I had done that! It didn't agree with "my" reality at all. I actually remember thinking "that's projection".  But I ignored myself, I didn't think "regular" ppl engaged in projection, I thought it was just a symptom that existed in psych textbooks and only ppl with a dxd psychological problem did it.  I convinced myself that her "projection" was based on how things looked from her perspective, and that maybe it was valid for her, and who was I to say any different?  So I accepted it.

[lavender]

Although there are many things about N behaviour that baffle me...one of the most bizarre examples is how **** can switch from a loving devoted husband to a psychopath in a nano-second and then back again just as quick if the "wrong" is "righted" ...eventually it made it kinda fun to push his buttons and watch this instant transformation...
secondly. their dedication to being right all the time even when they are so obviously wrong...

[Legs]

****...............I don't know WHAT that is, but I'm going to urban slang to find it..might have to go to Brit/Oz slang page.........


I never got far enough with Lucifer to realize you could wind them up like a toy and watch them go.......in retrospect, if I'd known everything all at once, it would have been a spectacularly different show on my part, but really..it's better that it all happened the way it did 'cos I still think I might have done some crazy thing like removing his eyes with toothpicks and slicing his you-know-what into slivers and weaving a potholder out of it, but I'd need a really small pot for that thing to work.


Legs

[Rosemary]

Ha Ha Ha The potholder Legs !!!
**** in U.K. is short for Golliwog a Black doll toy .Its a derogatory word for a coloured person or a foreigner  here .
In Oz i dont know maybe the same meaning 

[Legs]

Ooooooooooooooh, so it can be used as a general form of insult, no matter the color of the skin. Maybe like "gay" here...kids say that about stuff instead of people....like if a parade is on tv, they'll say "that's gay."

and what is a "Prat"???? I love that word but don't know what it means exactly..I know it's not nice


I think it's interesting how the meaning of slang terms can change from country to country. Here, we might use the old fashioned term "fanny" to refer to someone's rear end...usually a female fanny. For some reason, I've never heard a male's rear called a fanny. It's old-fashioned and probably considered a little mosre socially acceptable than "butt" or "ass"


Ok, so when my sister lived outside London, she was inside her little local market/Post Office and her daughter was across the aisle (she was about 4-5) jacking around with something and my sister said, "Katie! Stop that and get your fanny over here!"


She said there was like a stunned silence in the store and later on one of her neighbors told her that "fanny" meant vagina or vulva or whatever you want to call that part. Now she says "twat" which is another rude version of the same thing, and here "twat" is ALWAYS used for the female sex organ, but you chix call guys "twats".....so I wonder if calling a guy a twat is like us calling a man a p*ssy or a b!tch...like in addition to insulting them , you are implying they have feminine parts. which to me is insulting to us GIRLS!



Legs, who does like her slang

[inflatedheart]

Ha Ha Ha The potholder Legs !!!
**** in U.K. is short for Golliwog a Black doll toy .Its a derogatory word for a coloured person or a foreigner  here .
In Oz i dont know maybe the same meaning

I'm probably going to get slammed for saying this, but do you think this is an acceptable term to be throwing around? You have no idea who you may be talking to in this forum. I think that there are limits to the "code names" we give to the N's in our lives. I would never refer to a past boyfriend who was Black as "N*gger" simply because he was an N and treated me like crud. Using those kinds of words hurt other people who may or may not be immediately present in our lives and perpetuates the same behaviors and attitudes that allow Ns to walk all over us. It denies people the right to dignity and human worth. "Golliwog" is stereotypical caricature. Check out this website for more information on black face and minstrelsy: http://black-face.com/
Please don't use terms like that. It is extremely offensive.

[Legs]

Language is so weird, especially when you cross nationalities. If you said your n was "black hearted" no one would care. I think it's odd how people in the gay and lesbian communities refer to each other...fag and Bull dyke and you name it and they use them really as more of a descriptive, affectionate term....maybe like some blacks use the N word for some people and they are fine saying it themselves but don't want others to say that word.


I actually have a friend who called me her little niggah as if I was her little sister! I mean, she used it as a welcoming term and sort of a way to treat me like a relative. I finally told her that maybe she should not do that because it gave me the idea that that word was ok to use in certain circles......same as for certain gay terms. They can say it but we better not unless we are in that lifestyle. Personally, I think if people who "are" a certain thing and can be offended by other people using a word, then they should not use it, but that's just me.


Legs, still interested in slang and how it changes from culture to culture

[Rosemary]

Inflated heart   , i didnt use the word ,someone else did ,and i was just explaining to legs what it means in U.K. Slang as she wanted to know.
Im sorry to have offended you it wasnt meant to be offensive .

[inflatedheart]

I think it's odd how people in the gay and lesbian communities refer to each other...fag and Bull dyke and you name it and they use them really as more of a descriptive, affectionate term....maybe like some blacks use the N word for some people and they are fine saying it themselves but don't want others to say that word.

As a member of the Queer community, I can attest that this is a term that many have reclaimed and been empowered by. It is a completely different argument when you talk about personal preferences and community-member usage.  I agree with you that language varies and it is always respectful to use terminology that respects the dignity and humanity of the people you are referring to. You will never get it wrong if you use respectful language. I am not a member of the Black community, therefore, my usage of historically racist and derogatory words will have a very powerful and painful effect on others.

I'm not pointing the finger at a particular user but I have seen this word used by others in this thread who may or may not know what it means and I appreciate Rosemary's  willingness to share the definition with Legs.  It is important that the racist undertones of this term is explained, not just the definition, which is why I showed posted the website. I want to encourage us to choose N code-names that are respectful of the history of global racism and slavery.

[Chime]

interesting what you said about Plymouth Mass in the 1600s.  I traced ancestry back to then and got interested in reading the original court records of the Plymouth court. 

Great story!
and hey -- we might be related! 
ancestors to Plymouth and SouthHold Long Island, NY 1632
one of mine was branded in Sussex Co. with an H for heratic, on his hand for being an, OMG, Quaker!   
musta lied to get on the boat
 
Chime

[Chime]

"Your chances of \'finally\' getting it right are vanishingly small. At the end of the day the narcissist will walk free and you will remain in chains, not the other way round."
wow InflatedHeart
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