With all I know-Still SHOCKED at the atrocities N's get away with in plain sight

[daisyk9292]

I seriously have very difficult time that N's, get away with all they get away with. What is THAT???

I've had some very solid days for a stretch, BUT I AM NOW BACK TO LOSING IT!!!! 

Just saying "There are some things in life we'll never understand" IS NOT CUTTING IT FOR ME ANYMORE!!!!

OVERWHELMING URGE TO EMAIL N'S SCHOOL DISTRICT AND RANT LIKE A CRAZY WOMAN OVER THIS HORRID HORRID MONSTER!!!

But as crazy as I am, I know it will get me nowhere,except for others seeing my CRAZINESS out of context,  and the N looking like the victim of stalking mad woman.

Seriously,my entire life - I step out of line even one time and I'm called on it in one way or another. Besides from my own conscience -

 I'm told PRONTO by life whether it be from a consequence of the action or a person directly stating to me, YOU'RE OUT OF LINE! To the point where I became a person afraid to do anything. Paralyzed by fear of messing up, causing others harm, inconvenience, losing their love and approval.

N'S - From where I'm standing get away with horrid, horrid, nightmarish actions towards others, and NOTHING?? NADA. In fact my N seems to be getting more popular and loved by the minute because of his rock band.

Who I see now, who he is NOW - Is not the same person he was with 4 years ago. If THIS guy had showed up, I would've run for the freakin hills screaming!! He looks like he's been lifting weights, big buff arms, tight black t-shirt, tattoos, he went from 40 something lost and lonely soul - To a I don't even know what??

I felt what happened with him was bad enough, but now seeing and hearing what I am about him today, it's making the entire thing worse.

I have become an obsessed mad woman over this man and what I've experienced with him. He's off getting laid, having fun, and being a respected school principal. I'm in misery, day in and day misery. My precious daughter not having a mom who is 100% because her mother is so dysfunctional over allowing this HORRID MONSTER back in to her life!!!

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No justice? Drives me freaking out of my mind!!!!

I know that SOME get there due. I know that SOME get sloppy and the pathology causes them trouble eventually.

But how many know how to make it work. Permanently! An entire lifetime of them causing harm to others without EVER being stopped. Until of course they die of natural causes. But what about the ripple effects of damage done?

It fills me with such rage and sorrow, it almost feels unbearable sometimes.

And painful, painful confession, I wrote him an email in Oct. after hearing he was having an affair with a teacher at his school. I told him I forgive him for what he's done to me (as in you won't destroy me) even though he didn't deserve it, I'm choosing to anyway.

I told him I knew about his new affair, that I will never understand how he could live his life this way. The damage he's caused me and my family. On and on, and I only caused myself more humiliation and pain, because it went to a monster, who got yet ANOTHER good laugh at my expense I'm sure.

I'm so seriously screwed. I'm thinking I may be getting closer and closer to the mental hospital instead of closer to healing.

I'm very frightened.

[HealingDaughter]

Daisy,

First of all, (((Hugs))) Are you able to go to a therapist at all? You've got to choose to 'let go of the rope' as someone told me. No amount of telling this horrible creature what he is doing is wrong is going to help and you can't do anything about what he does to snow other people into believing his schtick. You can only be responsible for yourself and your daughter. Take care of yourself. This guy deserves as little of your head space as possible.

Ns feed off of our pain and conflict, any contact at all with them, negative or positive feeds their ego and I can guarantee you that he feeds off of any contact you have with him. Don't give the man the time of day, do the bare minimum. Focus on where you want your life to go. The things you want to do. I know you came from Nparents too, so I think I'm correct in saying that it's hard for you to focus on yourself without feeling guilty, but you deserve to! You need to! Take care of yourself, please!!! 

[alatariel]

Seriously,my entire life - I step out of line even one time and I'm called on it in one way or another. Besides from my own conscience -

 I'm told PRONTO by life whether it be from a consequence of the action or a person directly stating to me, YOU'RE OUT OF LINE! To the point where I became a person afraid to do anything. Paralyzed by fear of messing up, causing others harm, inconvenience, losing their love and approval.

Have we met?  B/c I think you're living my life.

I KWYM about N's falling in a puddle of shite and coming up smelling like roses.  I struggle every day with the fact that troll is out there enjoying her life, her good job and all her friends-and-relations, while I sit home alone and talk to my cats.  I struggle every day knowing that dickhead is receiving all sorts of help from the same gov't agencies that threw their hands in the air and turned their back when I asked for it.  Who looks like the crazy one here? 

It's an unbalanced world, that's for sure.  And the saying that "nice guys finish last" sure applies, at least as far as I can tell.  So, yeah, this post is less-than-helpful.  I wonder every day how they can get out of bed and look at themselves in the mirror, b/c I know for a fact that I couldn't if I did any of the things they do w/o even caring.

That's part of what I meant in my post about "when do I get to be right".  I'd love to have some of that sure-and-certain knowledge that any and everything they do is justified, right, and going to work out.  And if it doesn't, oh well, someone else will have to pick up the pieces.  I'd love to be arrogant.  I'd love to walk into a job interview and tell them they're going to hire me, or know that I can break laws with impunity b/c I'll just talk my way out of punishment.  I'd love to sit back and orchestrate and boss everyone around and watch them scurry to do my bidding or make me happy or stay in my good graces.  He1l, I'd love it for my good graces to actually matter to anyone!

What I wouldn't love, or even like, is to treat other ppl like disposable objects.  Or to believe the end justifies the means.   Or to know that I got where I was b/c I stepped on and ruined other ppl.  Or to knowingly cause someone to suffer and not care b/c I got what I wanted.

[daisyk9292]

HD - Yes I've been in therapy for quite some time now. I'm just caught in a bad cycle at the moment, so I'm vomiting it all out here on WoN. Like CZ wrote on a thread once, "secrets make us sick" well my big secret is I wrote the douchebag, poured out my heart and soul, from one human being to anoth.... to N!!!!

I did tell my thereapist after I did it, but I've been keeping it from here, and well, perhaps I was ready to let it go by writing about it here. I'm hoping it will kick him out of my head because being on here and writing has dislodged him before!

Yes alatariel - You get it. I agree with you I'd never want to be like N's. But I'd love to be a person who an N wouldn't go after, Someone who sends off a vibe of "I'm a good person, I know it, but if you try to mess with me you'll be sorry you did" something like that. Instead I seem to give off the scent of "ATTENTION ALL N'S SUPPLY IS NOW AVAILABLE, SUPPLY NOW AVAILABLE!!!!"

[alatariel]

Well, now that I recognize an N for what it is, I can manage to stay away from them.  Unfortunately, my version of staying away involves scurrying off to hide in a corner like the mouse that I am.  I avoid, I don't confront.  But I'd like to be able to stand up to them, and I'd love to have that aura of "don't fork with me", instead of having a target painted on my forehead.

[CZBZ]

Oh I see...you did what I did! My big secret was apologizing to my husbaNd for being abusive to him.  I figured an apology would get the reciprocal-responsibility-thingie going. It didn't. Just proved to him that his persecutory delusions were true. I probably felt that (hard to know for sure what I was feeling or thinking back then) my husbaNd would redeem my guilty soul for not being perfect. I did lose my temper now and then and out of exasperation, used the f-word to express my frustration.  Which, in my crazy way of thinking back then, made me as guilty as the man who used the f-word to shame me in front of our children...to put me in my place.

 I also told him I forgave him which incited his wrath because my forgiveness implied he had made a mistake and was seeking 'my' redemptive blessings.

So you sent your rat bazturd a loving note hoping to alleviate your guilt and receive his blessings of redemption? Sounds absolutely and perfectly normal for the N-relatioNship.

I have learned to contain my emotions and that is one of the finest lessons learned on WoN. I didn't even know what emotional containment was but I sure knew the consequences if I didn't. It is a skill that can be learned and MUST be learned so we aren't self-destructing all over the place. If I feel like I need redemption, there's far better places to seek closure than granting this power to the narcissist. Feeling the need to purge can be contained long enough to restore our sanity. 

You may be feeling like a victim again even though you felt empowered when you sent him the letter, right? He didn't respond as you'd hoped and instead, turned the tables upside-down again. Well, that's a narcissist for ya.

One reason why I continue to believe in the afterlife is because it's the only place where justice is served.  Religious beliefs can help us come to peace with our lives when justice fails on Earth.

Because of so many years passing while talking with people like yourself, I also believe that a form of justice IS served as narcissists age. They aren't called "The Tragic Man" for no reason. Their lives are tragic because of their failed relationships with other people, their families, their workplace, with themselves. The way to leave our frustration with injustice behind is to make a better life for ourselves. That is, as you know, easier said than done. 

Sometimes we 'envy' the narcissist because he or she appears to get away with things that we can't. Either we get caught (some of us are soooooooo unlucky!) or our conscience stops us. It helped me to examine my own 'envy' at my X's complete disregard for others and his total devotion to himself. Envy is an icky word and we don't like owning up to it but nonetheless, it was there. How come HE got to be Humphrey Bogart when I was stuck playing Betty Boop??? Movies were great catalysts for my feelings. Or fairy tales (yea? Bet you couldn't have guessed) because in the end, the villain got his just desserts. I needed the arts to keep my feelings moving and offer me hope that at some point, justice would be served. But it would not come about at my hands...in fact, I finally realized that the narcissist is his or her own hangman. They destroy themselves in an attempt to destroy others.

Hugs,
CZ

[daisyk9292]

You know when I post something like this I feel terror at what the response will be? GET OUT OF HERE DAISY!! WE DON'T NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU ON HERE!!

In closing on my email to N I wrote something like: I'd really like to believe this has all been some misunderstanding between the two of us and just to heal and make amends. But if you can't be nice then I'd rather not hear from you all. Not hearing from you could be the greatest act of love you show me.

Well he showed me!!! LOL

I AM A TOTAL WHACK JOB!!! I want to hear from you but I really don't want to hear from you! LOL

 But I know I'll find forgiveness for myself for doing it. I slipped, I'm human, can't undo it. So what choice have I got really?

As far as justice - I have thought about the age thing CZ. Not even N's can stop father time. Evenutally all humans reach a "limit" situation, where they have absolutely no control over what happens. Even N's. My N was all about control. Is all about control. I suppose most if not all are. I've had my control issues too. But I've learned that there are some things simply out of my control. Something greater than us ultimately has the final say, even if it's just nature and the aging process. At 42, I need 8 hours of sleep, I need structure, I need downtime, I need to keep up with my daughter, I need exercise, I need to focus on healthy eating habits.

At 45, I don't know how the N does it. Work full time, parent his son, be a good husband, play gigs all weekend and chase skirts. But something tells me he can't go on this way forever. He can't be giving appropriately to his relationships because mathematically it just doesn't add up in my head. But this is really none of my god damn business.

Ugh, I just hate him. Yes, I said HATE. I don't love him I HATE him. It's bad to hate isn't it?  Oh well, it is what it is.

Thanks everyone.

[HealingDaughter]

Daisy, I hope you took my prior post as nothing other than supportive of you. You are not a whackjob... I promise! All of us have been there to some degree. I'm so sorry you're in a bad cycle right now. Never ever feel like you can't say something here on WoN!!!

[alatariel]

Daisy, I've been on other message boards where "GTFO" would be the response you'd get to admitting you are human and made a mistake.  This isn't one of them.  I may have only been here for 6 months, but I know for a sure-and-certain fact that CZ wouldn't tolerate that, and neither would anyone else.

I may not want my N's back or think I'm ever going to get closure from them, but that doesn't mean I haven't made mistakes regarding them.  After all, I answered that text that turned out to have been from the troll.  And I still haven't told dickhead again that I don't want him in my house b/c I refuse to start a fight in front of the boys.

I'm beginning to think there is no "right" way to handle ppl who are just "wrong". 

[Imogene]

Daisy--
I feel the same way whenever I post about the emotional affair I had while X and I were together.  It's taken me a lot of time to realize that I simply had to look away from what was happening to me in my marriage and pin it on something else.  But I still feel deeply ashamed about it and like such a bad person.  Yet when I read your posts, all I see is a trusting, honest woman who wanted to be loved.

[daisyk9292]

HD - I absolutely did take it as supportive!   As far as my feelings of fear that I'm going to be "scolded" or invalidated in some way, well that's MY problem. It's just what I'm used to getting whenever I would allow myself to express anything. It's probably a PTSD symptom. Spill it, let it all out, then cover my head and wait for the punishment I will get for doing so.

But time and time again on WoN I'm proven wrong. I'm very grateful that I am too. I'm so grateful to you and all the teachers on here. I may be making slow progress, I may be back sliding some, but thank goodness for WoN. Don't know what I'd do without it. 

[daisyk9292]

Imogene - Your post just reduced me to sobs. I'm not posting this to make you feel bad. I'm just wondering why? My first thoughts are, "Yes I trusted him and wanted to be loved and I believed I was, and now I feel so horribly stupid." The more I learn about him the more stupid I feel. The more humiliated I become.

I am deeply ashamed I made him a priority over my daughter and my H. It would feel less so, had it been for real love, even though it would end up hurting others, but at least there would have been something that came from it. I know that sounds awful perhaps. I don't know.

 But the only person who gained a thing was the N. Well I guess we all gained a lot knowledge in a way. But it still stinks for my little family. We have really been going through it. All 3 of us. It's good for my H and I to face what we haven't in our own relationship.

I just isolate the relationship I had with the N, and think "Why didn't he leave me be?" "I left him alone for 20 years, let him go, why did he need to do this?"

I guess because he could.

[CZBZ]

"when I post something like this I feel terror at what the response will be? GET OUT OF HERE DAISY!! WE DON'T NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU ON HERE!! "

Ha!! Well, dear Daisy, I believe that the way to counter narcissism and change our behavior, is with non-narcissistic relationships. Then we will notice the difference and change our automatic, patterned reactions. You cannot change your patterns if you don't even know you have them so first, you need to build new relationships that are NOT like the old. That means it's very important for your support group to counter your walking-on-eggshells beliefs.   

Unfortunately, people may understand the logistics of narcissistic relationships, write about healing with footnotes and documentation; but they don't know how to create and live in non-narcissistic relationships. If a community lacks tolerance for imperfect members, if it punishes people for making mistakes, if people can be cast out without notice, well...tell me what there is to be learned there? It's the same damn relationship we're leaving!

I figure 'familiarity with dysfunctional behavior' is why narcissistic communities feel comfortable. They're may even be more popular, too because nothing is more entertaining (or addictive) and distracting, than drama...never knowing when someone might say or do the wrong thing and get a 'whippin'.

Well...we are grownups here and it's time to break those dysfunctional patterns in our lives and that includes experiencing normal relationships. Even cyber-relationships!

P.S. I've never found it useful to beat up on forum members, ha! Y'all do such a fine job of that on your own!

Hugs,
CZ

[Imogene]

Daisy,
I know what you're going through.  It gets better; it just takes time.  One thing I want to say is that, from all I've read here, you sound like a good, caring mom.  I doubt you neglected your daughter as much as you think.  The whole thing just looks so huge to you; it's hard to see it any other way.

[pearlsb4swine]

Daisy, Daisy, stop beating yourself up!   If we all knew how to handle narcissists perfectly and beat them at their game every time we would be on different web sites learning, I don't know, to speak Russian or something.

You just wrote yours a letter.  I met with mine in a donut shop and had a massive sobfest.  I made a total spectacle of myself.  But everyone here was supportive.  And I was being honest and saying what I had to say.  It was a waste of time as far as healing things with the N.  But I figure it's all part of our process.  Even painful things can move you forward.  There is no shame in it for me, even if my N lapped up all that delicious supply, because it's not about him any more.  It's about me and my processing my feelings and getting on with my life.  You do what you have to do.

I can relate to the offering of an apology to kind of prime the pump.  You know, I apologized for all the air that I was breathing, just to show the N how it was done.  I cajoled.  I pleaded.  I would have happily stood on my head if I thought it would make that relationship work.  There is no shame in that.  I didn't hurt anyone besides myself, and the harm I did to myself was not intentional. I did the best I could for myself at the time.  Thank God that time is over and I can do better for myself today.

As far as the lack of justice and fairness in the world......it is painfully true that we do not get to see enough justice to satisfy us in this world.  Like CZ says, that's what an afterlife is for.  That's my belief and it works for me.  That in the afterlife, every tear is wiped away, every hurt is healed, every person made whole.  Including the tears and hurts and injuries caused by narcissism.  There, my xnh will finally understand me, and love me, and spend all eternity peeling grapes for me.  Something like that anyway.   

Pearls

[daisyk9292]

Gee I'm now a thriver. Funny but I feel anything but!! LOL

[CZBZ]

"There, my xnh will finally understand me, and love me, and spend all eternity peeling grapes for me.  Something like that anyway."

ROFL!!

CZ

p.s. The perfect punishment for my X? Standing on his feet baking Oreos for time and all eternity.

[Proud2B]

Daisy,
The only thing I found even remotely surprising is that you wrote your exN an email in OCT, and just now posted about it!  Which probably means you've been beating yourself up over it ever since. 

Every single one of us has done things we've regretted when the relationship with our respective exN's is in the final death throes.     

Rest assured, no one here is going to chastise you for that  WON is one of the safest places on the planet.

And you're right about how sometimes, at least for a while, N's seem to live a charmed life.  But in the end, there's no such thing as a 'free lunch'.  I really do believe they pay the ultimate price.  If we're lucky, we might even have the chance to witness "karma" in action.  If we wait long enough.

Kindly,
Proud2B

 

[Proud2B]

Ohhhhhh CZ!  On his feet baking Oreos for eternity??????

Pearls.....peeling grapes????

Delicious!!!!!!!

Proud2B

[Rosemary]

The truth is Daisy when you come from a Nfoo  your always looking for Love ,I know i was and was  easy prey for a N

There is No Shame in looking for Love Daisy  its natural .


Its the Ns who are NOT NATURAL and never will be .Whoever he goes with will get the same treatment  every time .
He couldnt make you HAPPY NORMALLY HAPPY because  hes  ABNORMAL he has a DISORDER a terrible DISORDER he cant change but you can ,and you can LOVE in a NORMAL way .     

[daisyk9292]

I love Oreos. Way too much!! I don't care what N does in the afterlife. But I'd like to believe in an afterlife. I'd like to believe I'll meet you fine humans someday. I'd like to have faith in something again. I think WoN is helping me with that. Can we have a convention of sorts someday??

You all seem to fabulous not to know in person. Ha! A girl can dream can't she?

*sigh* another day lost in emotional turmoil. But at least I wasn't alone. I'm still beating myself up for feeling like such a taker on here. I want to offer comfort and support to others. But I feel so sorely lacking in that area. I'm going to try to do better. After all focusing on others might be a tad helpful!

Thanks for today to ALL of you. I'd like to share a quote I've found that I really love.

Courage is the most important of all virtues, because without it we can't practice any other virtue with consistency - Maya Angelou

It takes courage for me to open up and spill my guts on here, and it is met with such compassion. What a blessing.

[MoreMyself]

Great advice offered here, Daisy, so I'm not going to offer any more.  But I am going to confess what I did.  After the Hobbit moved out I won two tickets to a theatre performance.  So like an idiot I called him and asked if he'd go with me.  Because of course we'd always gone together to any theatre outings.  He mumbled something about already having something on that night.  And I got it, I really got it.  I felt shamed and embarrassed.  I was just an annoyance and he was no doubt thinking I was the last person he'd want to spend any time with.  No Contact began for real from my side after that phone call.  Now it seems like such a small normal thing for me to have done.  But it caused me such shame that I did it.

Our only real fault is trying to find the normal person under that facade.  Maybe it's there, I don't know.  Some experts appear to claim so.  I could never dredge it out of the Hobbit.

I did want to recount a tale of an ageing N.  Not the Hobbit, but his father (and secondarily his brother).  Hobbit Senior has had two wives walk out on him in anger.  He has been alienated from one daughter for her entire life.  He was suddenly transferred out of a bank job in a small city and moved across the country when one of his employees reported him to head office for having an affair with a married customer.  He moved in with an N woman who was 10 years older and what a piece of work she was.  She used the bait of driving a Jaguar so he thought she was rich.  Turns out she'd been divorced five times and the Jaguar was a residue of a divorce settlement.  She had lost her money in bad investments and wanted his bank pension.  She got Alzheimer's and his life really was hell for the last year they lived together until her family put her in nursing care.  Last year he had a stroke.  He couldn't live on his own.  He begged any of his five children to take him in.  None would.  The Hobbit flew over and got him into a nursing home but after that washed his hands of him.  He is now the sad, lonely pathetic old man that he deserves to be after treating so many people so badly all his life.

The younger brother seemed to be Teflon Hobbit.  Nothing stuck to him from his manipulations which included theft from family members, bankruptcy, male prostitution, a failed marriage (yes to a woman).  Then he tested HIV positive.  He is in some kind of remission but smokes pot every day (legally, apparently, for the cancer).  He has no money, having lived off other people all his life because of his charm and looks, which are now gone.  He is legally blind.  He is totally pathetic and people avoid him because all he does is show them albums of naked pictures of himself as a young handsome man, and then tell them stories of how many people he had relations with (he is a somatic N).

Both of these men had so many friends during their good years that they seldom bothered with family.  Now the friends have gone and the family couldn't care less.  Sometimes they do get what is coming to them. 

What irritated me was accepting that I had no power to extract any revenge on the Hobbit as he sailed away into whatever the future holds for him.  All I could do was go NC and it has worked really well for me but it took a lot of resolve to hold to it at times.

[daisyk9292]

MM - Thanks for sharing this with me.  I do realize that many eventually pay for their behavior. In one form or another. It's just right now all I can see is the N I was involved with flourishing and it's painful. I wish it weren't. I wish I could just forget about him, let it go and let life take care of it. It's going to anyway. I can't do anything!! All I can do is work on ME.

Clearly I haven't been practicing NC very well. First with the email I sent, but also with Facebook. I have access to a lot of different things regarding him because he's in a band and they have a "fan" page. UGH!!! I haven't visited HIS band page, but I am able to go to other band pages of people he is friends with and learn about what he's doing, upcoming shows he has, and a benefit rock concert HE planned to raise money for homeless animals. Isn't he just Mr. Wonderful?? I'm sure getting attention while he's on stage and getting more female admirers has nothing to do with his wanting to raise money for the poor animals.

I digress...

NC = NO CONTACT That says to me, I can't look at ANYTHING that is even REMOTELY related in any way shape or form regarding the N. I have to practice this and really behave as if he doesn't exist, there's nothing for me to see or that I need to see. There are no answers for me there. Just pain and confusion.  Just let it go. and stay the HELL off FACEBOOK!!

When I get the urge to FACEBOOK, I'll just read on WoN until it passes. Like right now!!

I feel like I've had the flew all day today and have done nothing but vomit. Vomit up this horrid experience and all the horrid feelings that have come from it.

[JennyWren]

Dear Daisy  ....the master self-criticiser!!! 

It`s late here....and I really must get to bed....but I have just scan-read this thread...which has hurtled to ENORMOUS lengths...as if to show WoN`s solidarity with you...and care for you.

I am merely going to add my confession.....after BigBird`s "MLC"...which involved behaviour I felt obliged to report to the police...and while he was living away.....I e-mailed him DAILY between November and February. I also made him a Chrismas cake....multiple meals for his freezer...Bought him Christmas presents etc.

Looking back.....I have no idea why I continued. All I got back was a bunch of stuff about how everything was his mother`s fault...and then...when I continued trying to encourage him to look at himself....it became my fault. And very nasty indeed.

Ns work by manipulating your emotions. They know every button to press...and their tendrils drill deeply. They are emeshed with your every thought. Until we chose to start untangling them. Which takes time.

Give yourself a break.....you are going forwards up a tricky path. Sometimes you might trip. Always give us a shout. So many people here want to hold out a hand to you dear daisy. You are doing great 

[JennyWren]

PS...I am still guilty of Facebook stalking. Nearly every day. Bad me.