Therapist says I have to tell my friend...

[Imogene]

Even though everyone on the board knows there was some malice in what she did, there would be no point in demanding an apology, because then you are accusing her of malice, which will put her on the defensive.  I would say, "When you showed Z that photo, it made me feel bad.  Could you do me a favor and delete it from your phone, please?"  Try not to make a big deal out of it--but also don't back peddle or blame yourself for being overly sensitive or whatever.  Just see how she deals with direct, sincere request. 

Her text back to you was strike two, in my book.  (Showing the photo was strike one.)  She turned your laudable goals into being "anal" and then made it all about her, "I'm taking a poll."  I don't know.  She sounds more narcissistic every time you post a new interaction with her.

[daisyk9292]

Yes Rosemary she gets funnier by the minute. Now she texts me "I wanna be more anal, but I don't want to be unhealthy. I don't want to go "crazy" and make all those around me go "crazy" make sense to you?"  I want to tell her TOO LATE!!!!! LOL

[Rosemary]

yes daisy she is the CRAZY one  ,id ignore that txt

[daisyk9292]

Too late Rosemary I already did with, "I don't know anyone who isn't a little crazy in their own way. That's why I try to do what's
 best for ME, as long as it doesn't hurt others in the process.  If anyone wants to judge, then it's more than likely because of their own issues"

Silence....

[Rosemary]

Thats a good answer daisy 

[daisyk9292]

Thanks friend. 

[Julia]

Daisy,

You are doing great at figuring out what you want versus need from this r/s. Stay strong in believing that you deserve to be heard and respected and you will be a strong role model for your daughter when she needs to lean this.  Now just a tiny bit more background on boundaries. There are two parts to every boundary: setting = saying it, and then knowing what you will say and do if they don't respect your boundary. 

So, the saying it part: you could get her alone at a fairly calm time and say


"There's something I need to tell you, and as my friend, I really need you to listen to what I have to say.  I was very shocked when you showed the picture of me to C. I felt embarrassed/humiliated. I want you to agree to delete that photo so this will never happen again. I do not think I can let this go until I know for sure that the photo has been deleted."

Now about the possible outcomes..... We all hope that she listens and then says "Here is why I thought it was OK, but I respect your feelings, so  I will delete the photo". But we know that she may instead blow up and start blaming you for everything you have ever done that has ever bothered her.  She might even make some stuff up, or blame you for some things that she actually did to you. If that happens...well try to keep your sense of humor, the kind that JennyWren has about her XN. Imagine yourself coming back to tell us all about it, and take note of the exact shade of red her face becomes.

And before you talk to her, decide what your bottom line is on the outcome if she goes ballistic. Are you willing for the friendship to 1) end, 2) be put on hold (like a separation for friends), or 3) Tell her that you will not listen to her shouting, and she can contact you when she is able to talk about it.

Julia

[daisyk9292]

Thank you Julia. I've copied this down, and will begin to practice in the mirror. lol This may sound corny to some, and I'm far from a deeply religious person. But, one thing I say to myself every single time,  before I'm expected to present a project in front of an entire class is "God I know you're with me and will pull me through." I do very well in class presentations.     I will the say the same thing before my sit down with her.

I still haven't heard a peep from her today, since that last text I sent earlier. I may be completely paranoid, but I did feel like she was A. calling me Anal for wanting more structure in my life. B. Then insinuating if you are like that you're crazy and make other crazy, meaning I MUST be crazy!  Grrrrrr.

The entire point of creating structure for myself, is so that I'm LESS stressed, depressed, anxious and crazy! Therefore being a much more pleasant person to be around which makes others feel less crazy. DUH!!!!!!!!

Thanks everyone, I'll let you know how it goes.

[CZBZ]

"Her response" You sound like me, I've been thinkin I'm gettin too anal in my old age. I'm takin a poll from all of my close friends... do u think I'm too anal? A does. "" ~Daisy

Triangulation. Ns can't live without it. It's how they fake 'intimacy' with you as the listener by speaking 'secretly' about another person.

What a shitty thing to say. I think a LOT of people do this who aren't Ns so if you don't leap into the triangle with them, they'll thank you for it later. But with a N? I don't think they know how to have relationships without triangulating people against each other.

And I notice she wrote "my close friends." She's a little bit seductive, Daisy (not in a sexual way) because she 'lures' you into feeling close to her. Ns are very much like this, you know...they make people feel special and like a 'confidant' .
 
CZ
 

[daisyk9292]

CZ - I found it very strange she included A in that text. I also believe she does use triangulation with her friends. Like I said, she manages to keep us all in her little compartments, and then picks who she wants to include when. The more I think about it, the majority of get togethers has been in 3's! Her, me, and a different friend.  I'm really starting to get creeped out here.

One more question I have is about initiating a get together. She's been doing all of the initiating since the night she left my house. Because I haven't really been motivated to spend a lot of time with her. Now this photo incident has happened. After today's back and forth texting, and not having heard from here, I'm wondering when/if she'll initiate getting together again any time soon? Should I pick a day and ask her?

Also, if we can't fit anything in our schedules over the next week or so, could a phone call be a plan B? Or should I wait until we're face to face, no matter how long it takes?

I know I'm high maintenance 

Thank you.

[alatariel]

Of course she's being "silent", you didn't give her the answer she wanted to her text.  She wanted you to participate in her triangulation, "of course you're not crazy, and screw A if she thinks you're too anal," or something like that.  You derailed her with your calm text about your own feelings.  Now she's off chasing better supply for a while, but she'll come 'round again when you least want her to.

[daisyk9292]

 O/T from the main issue in this thread.

Well it was bound to happen. The iNfection from my friend has now reached the relationship with my H. We got into a tiff last night. He knows all about the happenings over the last several months. I was talking with him about it last night, his patience ran out.  (I admit I need to learn when to hold off and save some for just therapy and WoN). He stopped, looked at me and said, "How many hours have you spent on this frieNd issue?"

I instantly felt judged then ashamed. I said loudly something like "You just NEVER understand!" I stormed off in a huff. After a few minutes of cooling off, I returned with an apology for lashing out. Then I sat down and explained to him that the big issue isn't really about my frieNd. The big issue is my needing to learn how to develop and maintain healthy relationships with others and protect myself when that's not possible. I need to learn this, with family, with friends, with co-workers (when I get back in to the workforce) with EVERYONE.

I told him this isn't an easy fix. This is a repeated pattern, that's caused a lot of problems in my life. I told him I needed his support not judgement. I told him I will speak to him about it less than I have and use the other supports I have in place. Then he said, "I believe I can do better with helping you and being more understanding" I don't believe he can. Nor do I believe I should expect him to. But this has been OUR pattern. Going both ways.

There are plenty of ways we can support each other and help each other. But it became really clear to me, that stuff like this isn't one of them. He can't "fix" this or me. Only I can.

[CZBZ]

"If we can't fit anything in our schedules over the next week or so, could a phone call be a plan B?"

You know what, Daisy? If you are comfortable with a phone call, then try that. I like face-to-face for many reasons, not the least of which is actually seeing/experiencing your friend's reactions. We miss facial cues and body language when we're talking on the phone. Knowing more about 'her' reactions will benefit your relationship in the future. We don't even realize everything we're picking up on face-to-face, and we might never know everything we 'know', ya know? 

My boundaries get a little too loose on the telephone so perhaps my advice is clouded by my own subjectivity? It's easy to 'imagine' the other person's reactions when you're on the phone with them. Or to assume they're in agreement when actually they're sticking out their tongue and pretending to vomit. LOL...j'est kiddin' with ya, although I have been known to do that before. I am no----------------------------> 


You wrote: "I instantly felt judged then ashamed."

It's amazing you could 'name' your feelings! That is progress, really! We get upset and storm off and apologize and never in this patterned reaction, are we able to 'name' the feelings causing our reaction.

Because you were being vulnerable and 'needy' with your husband, his comment was invalidating and hurtful as it would be to anyone! He probably didn't mean to hurt your feelings or 'invalidate' you, so he offered to be more understanding in the future.

You can imagine how a narcissist would react---he'd blame you for getting angry at him (perceived criticism). Your husband sounds like a pretty nice guy, Daisy--even if he struggles with empathy a little bit. That can actually be a GOOD thing because it forces you to make connections elsewhere and meet your emotional needs yourself! In his own way, he encourages you to build a strong network of friends which is a good thing...it will serve you well throughout your life!

Hugs,
CZ

[daisyk9292]

Thanks CZ- HA! That's funny about sticking the tongue out. I'd prefer to have a talk with her in person. I'm sure I'll get the chance to see her soon.

Your husband sounds like a pretty nice guy, Daisy

He is. He's been kinder and more supportive to me than anyone. He is a tad lacking in empathy, and he has had a big problem with lying in the past. But not lying in N sense to get something, more like "If she knows the truth, it will disappoint her, cause her upset, I'll lose her" kind of thing. It is manipulative, but it's because he cares about me I think, not because he cares about himself more. I don't know if that makes sense. I find it so difficult to explain.

I know the feelings I get from his behaviors even the hurtful ones are not at all the same feelings as I have had with N's. Even the judgement and shameful feelings are different in their texture. The N's I've experienced, it's all been pretty much the same, it's a unique experience all on its own.

[MoreMyself]

I have only brothers, only sons.  I understand about men.  They have a need to be fixers.  If they can't fix it then they don't want to talk about it.  They don't understand why we don't feel the same and why we waste time (in their view) analysing and discussing.  I think you're right to not expect much of your husband in that way.  He actually did offer to be more understanding, even though you are quite right that he can't be, because it just isn't in the male DNA to keep going back to emotional issues.

CZ's description of phone expressions made me laugh.  The Hobbit used to do that.  He'd be talking to someone on the phone, sounding quite reasonable, but rolling his eyes and actually sticking the tip of his tongue out (he did a modified tongue motion when he was showing contempt).