Controversial topic- New Online Dating Service

[daisyk9292]

but of course we are
not the "we" of this community, but society
we are normalizing things that our gut says are 'wrong'
the 2 youngest ones who stood up were the scariest aspect for me
they're the future
for those without a moral compass, these shows (etc)
make this stuff acceptable
even tho they're theoretically meant to be topics for unbiased discussion  ha!

it's like Machiavelli; Ayn Rand
or any other "philosopher" of that ilk
are seeping their way into the mainstream in ever more effective/affective ways
it's disgusting!

an ever more peeved
Chime

I agree. I think this is what depresses me the most. People are turning colder and colder.

[CZBZ]

I detest Ayn Rand. When I was a young woman, Atlas Shrugged appealed to me because I was enmeshed with my parents and hadn't lived enough of life to know how interconnected we all are. I can relate to the precarious narcissism our youth are dealing with because I've been there myself and it took a few crises to knock sense into me.  And it hurt.

We could start a thread and talk about Ayn Rand if anyone is interested in doing that. Or we can let this thread meander into Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead and Objectivism if Talia doesn't mind. What we have to be cautious about though is splitting members against each other since Ayn Rand pontificated on the merits of capitalism.

In a society that is being defined as 'increasingly narcissistic', it is no wonder advocates of selfishness are glorified as heroes. As Elsa Ronningstam suggests in her  narcissism studies, people may need to suffer a set-back, a failure, a crisis--in order to shatter their narcissism. I fear that's where we're headed with so much self-promotion and self-adoration being normalized today. But hey, I've lived through a series of crises and I'm still here---more aware and grateful than ever. Jeanne Twenge mentioned in her video (featured on The WoN Connection), that the current financial crisis has helped people redirect their lives towards more meaningful and satisfying venues than materialism.

Sometimes, as sad as it may be to write this, it takes a crisis to break through our narcissism.  When I write about 'our narcissism', please do not pathologize yourself or me.  Narcissism is on a continuum from healthy to unhealthy and all the way to pathological. A crisis will not shatter the pathological's narcissism---it will increase their defenses and worsen the situation. What Ronningstam calls a 'corrosive experience.'

Did I take us far enough off-track to get lost in the forest? 
 

CZ
 

[talia]

I fear that's where we're headed with so much self-promotion and self-adoration being normalized today.

That's what I've been thinking about the past few days after reading the comments. Forgive me, (wondering if I've been living under a rock)....LOL. I've heard of Ayn Rand, but honestly, not very knowledgeable. The article you shared peaked my interest, CZ. I have to work, but I look forward to reading it when I return and any further discussion,whether here, or an a new thread.

But hey, I've lived through a series of crises and I'm still here---more aware and grateful than ever. Jeanne Twenge mentioned in her video (featured on The WoN Connection), that the current financial crisis has helped people redirect their lives towards more meaningful and satisfying venues than materialism.

This is of particular interest to me as financial crisis is looming, given the company I work for has declared bankruptcy and restructuring is going to be painful for many. Trying not to get engulfed by the feelings of doom and gloom and fear.  Becoming frustrated and angered by the "normalization", if you will, of pathological corporate greed and the atrocities allowed because they are legal. As with the previous discussion related to today's culture of online dating.Is it right? Ethical? Moral? Just how far will this go?

I apologize for skipping out right now. On my way to work.
talia
 

[talia]

Well, CZ, I can see why Ayn Rand is so controversial. I can see where some of her writings/statements can be taken out of context and used as a means to justify certain behaviors. I admit, I find her writings(a fairly shallow reviewing) confusing and head spinning. Perhaps, her ideas too complex for me to grasp or it's difficult for me, at this time, to focus intently to analyze with clarity.

One thing that stands out for me, is her absolute conviction that altruism is the root of evil. Her stance is very black and white. While she explains herself and defends this position, I think there's an argument against her definition(s).


I can see if collective altruism is brought about through fear(even threatening to one's survival) to serve the values(rational only to those in power), then yes, I see her point to a degree. I wouldn't call it altruism, but rather a forced allegiance(for example... to a gov't).

I don't buy her rigid definitions of altruism. Not knowing much about Ayn Ryand, I'd say there's one quality, though, that seems to be lacking. A quality that cannot be brought about through rational thinking/reason alone.

Empathy. If a person doesn't have it, know it, feel it......Then one understands "why" she would write this.

Now there is one word—a single word—which can blast the morality of altruism out of existence and which it cannot withstand—the word: “Why?” Why must man live for the sake of others? Why must he be a sacrificial animal? Why is that the good? There is no earthly reason for it—and, ladies and gentlemen, in the whole history of philosophy no earthly reason has ever been given.

Geez, if I were drowning and there was only one person around who might be able to save me, I would hope that person was nothing like Ayn Rand.

Hugs,
talia




 

[daisyk9292]

Wow. Just a wild guess she never had any kids. lol

I also agree, I don't think preaching altruism and self sacrifice, for a select few in the world to remain in positions of power is a good thing at all.

I've seen some on my FB page actually "like" the Ayn Rand page and quote her, or more commonly quote from Atlas Shrugged. These are people who are into things like The Secret, and manifesting your best life blah, blah, blahbiddy blah.

I think where the average joe gets confused on the Ayn Rand stuff without really understanding how extreme she was, is boundary setting. Setting healthy boundaries, and getting your needs met.

I think many people who are like me, who feel they have self sacrificed a tad much in their FOO's, with friends, at work, they feel like powerless doormats, so they swing into "OH, I can be a selfish azzhole and it's okay. See these famous writers say it's so" In fact it will make me a BETTER, mom, wife, friend, sister, employee, to show people I no longer want to make myself suffer by caring about you, I'm going to make myself happy, then when I do, I'll be able to be much nicer to be around and care for you more. We will all benefit from my self-ish ness.

That's my take on it.