YOU are out of this world SPECIAL!

[CZBZ]

"To remind myself that I am OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD SPECIAL"

Wow, Daisy. Your thread sent me on a research tangent. I added several new articles about self-esteem in our Narcissism library.

Are we really so ridiculous as adults, that we'd title an exercise "I am OUT OF THIS WORLD special?" What? Are we reinvesting in the space program now? Out of this World Special? Is that a new height to achieve now that every single person on Earth is special? We've conquered Earth so now we're striving for galactic validation? How silly...deluded and arrogant. How about investing five million dollars into a critical thinking program!!!!! The first place to start: the adults. Before anyone is granted status as an adult, they have to take at least one Critical Thinking Course.

I really think after pondering this whole phenomenon while raising a child with disabilities that telling kids they are SPECIAL ad nausea, is all about making the adults feel better. To hell with whether it's good for the kids or not. How do Mom and Dad feel? It's not easy raising children with disabilities but how "I" feel about my child's limitations is for 'me to deal with' in a mature and do-no-harm-to-others manner. How "I" feel is best left to myself without trying to make myself feel better by pumping up the child.

I know this precarious place as the recipient of my X's over-the-moon compliments that were, after all, all about himself. As long as he could convince himself that "I" was special, his narcissism remained unchecked. Make sense? Even if his self-esteem was 'flagging', he could build me up and feel better about himself. So I think parental narcissism demands their children be idealized so the parents feel 'special'. I mean, when a child is truly special, a parent can vicariously feel special, too. After all, they gave birth to the little genius.

I don't know what I would do in your shoes, smp. I'd be a rebel-teacher, that's for sure.


Hugs,
CZ

[CZBZ]

O gosh! I forgot to add the links I found yesterday. There are a couple of audio interviews on NPR (national public radio) that are well-worth listening to. NPR doesn't archive every interview so if you're interested, set some time aside to listen before the interviews disappear.

NPR audio presentations:

Why Not Fail?: Children, Grades and Self-Esteem

Some British schools want to erase "Failure" off report cards — in favor of "deferred success." The idea is to spare the self-esteem of struggling or indifferent students. But is a good self-image the product of praise or real achievement? Neal Conan and guests discuss what really builds self-esteem in children.

Guests:Jennifer Crocker, professor, University of Michigan Department of Psychology; Thomas Phelan, author, Self-Esteem Revolutions in Children: Understanding and Managing the Critical Transitions in Your Child's Life; Michelle Borba, educator and writer on issues of children and self-esteem


Spring Break: About Sexuality or Self-Esteem?

Los Angeles Times columnist Meghan Daum talks about her article "Raunch Is Rebranded as 'Confidence,'" where she laments the binge drinking and bikini-clad contests that have come to characterize college spring break. She says today's young women are equating attractiveness with self-worth.

"What's happening on spring break beaches isn't just boys being boys and girls going wild," Daum writes. "It's young people, women especially, deciding that the way to measure their readiness for the adult world is not in terms of education or emotional maturity but sexual desirability."


Study: Adoption Not Harmful to Child's Self-Esteem

"New research challenges the common perception that adoption negatively impacts a child's self-esteem. A study by a Dutch researcher shows that adopted children tend to overcome developmental and emotional problems, and achieve a normal level of self-esteem."


Parent Sues School over Student's Poor Grade

“The parents of a high school student in West Virginia sue a teacher and the school board because their daughter got an 'F' on her biology project. Gina Barreca, professor of English literature and feminist theory at the University of Connecticut, talks about the case.”

(Gina Barreca is a professor at the University of Connecticut and the author of "Babes in Boyland: A Personal History of Co-Education in the Ivy League." She also writes about current issues and education. She joins us from her office at the University of Connecticut. )

[JennyWren]

Well...the SoapBox has come in for a darn good battering....as it should....and so I shall have my rant upon it now if you will please extend me your patience. Once again. 

smp...reading your post...and the raving loony need to give out 18 awards for example.. makes me want to eat my laptop so I wont know about such nonsense. It appears to be everywhere. And this is dangerous stuff. I mean....it seems so well meaning and harmless to give out awards...but when it leads to kids coming to class with a raging fever so as to get an attendance award...well...then you know the good intentions have gone haywire.

But that`s not the most dangerous bit. To my mind...and I could be exhibiting N paranoia here....like snow-blindness...but actually BigBird blindness....but...doesn`t all this fantasizing about how special kids are...and putting them high upon their golden pedestals sound an awful lot like the process of creating a Golden Child? Doesn`t it discourage acknowledging who a child REALLY is...top themselves and to their parents and general fan club?

Sure....everybody has unique and wonderful things about them. But equally we are all uniquely cr*p at some stuff too. I say...let kids be cr*p at stuff...and show them it doesn`t bl**dy well matter. If they are rubbish...so what? Sure....we want to encourage them in the things they do well at....but that is NOT everything.

I hope my post about the Sports stuff wasn`t terribly insensitive...because I know a lot of people do get picked on by pig-ignorant bullies. And that is a hideous experience. But I just don`t think that is a reason to make EVERYONE artificially a winner. We should not protect kids from ALL failure. (Of course we should intervene with chronic bullying....which is a separate matter)  They have to come to terms with stuff crashing and burning.

As parents it`s all too easy to be so worried about their little feelings....and be so cut up about that little bottom lip trembling....that we want to stop them feeling failure. Or attempting things they can`t do. I let mine go ar$e over t!t all the time. And then picked them up and brushed them off and loved them just the same. My kids don`t mind being hopeless at certain things. And I never dreamt of calling them "Out of this world special".

I will probably have a crack team from Social Services bungee jump from helicopters and remove my children now for neglect.

[Legs]

Legs, STFU since you don't have any brats of your own, but I'm with Jenny on this. I was utter crap at every sport except volleyball and basketball, but it didn't matter because I was such an arteest from my first day at school plus I could forge any parent's name like nobody's business...ah, my reckless teenage years where I would forge the occasional car title when it came out of the junkyard...old Porche's mainly. Not stolen, but repurposed.

I was crap at math cos no one ever taught me how to subtract or borrow numbers, but I read at a college level by the time I was 10, so everyone thought I just didn't want to DO math until I got a perfect 800 on the verbal part of the SAT's (long ago ancient test that I don't think they even do anymore) and a lovely 200 on the math section. Now this was in my senior year in Highschool, so it was too late for me, but blah, blah............doesn't matter but I agree with Jenny~~~~ every kid is good at one thing at least and so let them be good at that and then they can maybe DO that in their life and not all think they need to be petroleum engineers.



Legs

[Rosemary]

Legs being another ARteest im with you on the forging of signatures im very good at that
even on Ds P**Sp*** as she wasnt around at the time it needed signing  HA

Yes i believe the kids should be bad at somethings  its too ridiculous for words to award everyone a prize .

how do you know  to appreciate when you really do well      how confusing for them  not to fail sometimes

[smp]

CZ - I am in the classroom for the kids - someone needs to be. I am a firm believer in tough love, respect, effort, and consequences. I can not tell you how many times I have had complaints to the district office that their "little darlings" have always been on Honor Roll until me! I fight for my kids - We had a reading program for 11 years - it was call "Success For All,"  Sounds good, uh? Their premise was if a kid "felt successful they would then BE successful." Still sounds good, uh? But in order to convince them they were successful the teachers were forbidden to give a grade under 70%! Even if the kid just wrote their name on the paper, I fought that one all 11 years. Then there was confusion with parents - if a sixth grade student was in a second grade reading class, and being successful, why in the heck was this rotten teacher giving them an F in reading at grade level?  I have gotten myself in so much trouble through the years - I just can not sit still and take it - doesn't help that I am pretty darn blunt either.

I almost fell out of my chair reading about some British schools taking off Failure and replacing it with "Deferred Success." OMG - that is just way too funny. I do wonder about the  today's young women are equating attractiveness with self-worth," that seems to sum up how I felt about my daughter when she got her boob job last year. Being an old hippie - I just do not understand. I can remember a number of years ago in sixth grade - I had my students research careers and do a report - one girl said she didn't need a career - she was blonde and had long legs - what did she need a career for? Sad part of it, her mom agreed with her. And yes, I made her research one anyway!

It is a tough thing to do - but it reminds me so much of being a mom - and my heart is so into it. But, yeah - I do get into tons of trouble due to being outspoken!

[daisyk9292]

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x453/DaisyK919/299724_291296297567368_208899849140347_981514_1290611662_n.jpg

 

[smp]

Must be the long legged blonde from my class!! Thanks Daisy, I had wondered what happened to her!

[daisyk9292]

CZ - thanks for posting the articles on self esteem. I plan to go through them all. I was looking at them on the other thread as well.

After my EA with the N, when I reached the "oh shite" moment of realizing I had really been taken for a fool, I was devastated and hurt beyond belief.
Someone I shared my pain with said to me, "This is about self esteem" - meaning I didn't have any or it was so low, and that is why I was in the position I was in. That devastated me even more. If I were a person with healthy self esteem, then this wouldn't have happened to me? So, again, it points back to me. It was ALL my fault.

 I began a quest on how to heal my self esteem. My first book was Nathaniel Brandens 6 Pillars or was it 7? Well, it didn't help much. But eventually, self esteem research lead me to learning about narcissism.

All I know at this point, is when I do well at something, such as my returning to school, I feel very proud of the accomplishment. When I disprove something I've believed about myself for so long, such as "I am too stupid to ever get a college degree" I feel very proud of that. I work hard to get my A's. When I get the dean's list letter every term, I hang it on my fridge for a week. Then the next term I'm back to square one. I have to earn it all over again.

I read something the other day I really liked: "You're not as good as the best thing you've ever done, and you're not as bad as the worst thing you've ever done"

[daisyk9292]

That was especially for you smp!! Glad you liked it!!

[loved2much]

  
For many years now, I teach music to kids in several performance programs in California.  I have all ages and levels of talented kids to work with.  Your post made me remember a child who had ADD and required more attention than others. He was difficult.   Over the years I witnessed a remarkable change in him.  The first year he acted out so much that the other children resented him and he quit the class.  However he came to their performances and complimented his classmates.  That told me that there was someone there with great character.  I told him to come to my camp and we'd play some music together.  He came by my camp and the NX was there and was not 'nice' to him and told him to go away....a guy friend of mine witnessed this and told the NX that 'you have no soul!'  The kid and I met up and we had ice cream and visited the many artist vendors and I would introduce him to my friends as one of my students.  I found out from his Grandparents that this child had a horrible home life and the attention that I gave him was very nurturing.  When I returned to my camp the NX complained to me as if it was my fault that "a kid was here looking for you and I told him to go away and your friend said that "I have no soul".  (I ignored that incident when I should not have!)

The second year when the kid was in my class he still required a lot of my attention but was much better and played Bach on violin and mandolin.  He performed with the class and then there was an issue with the kids and he quit...but he still came to the show and complimented the kids that performed.  He came by my camp and we played music and I showed him my dulcimer and he picked it up real quick and could play songs on it...so I gave him one.

The next time he was in my class I asked him to be my class assistant and he performed with the class the entire weekend and we hung out together and watched other concerts and I know that I made a difference in this kids life.  He loves me and I love him and we play music together as friends.  He was only 11 and was better company at music festivals than the NX ever was.  I didn't realize that until tonight when I read this thread and thought about my music camp from last summer.

[daisyk9292]

loved2much - What a beautiful story. It's funny how many twists and turns these threads can take. I'm glad this one gave you happy thoughts about connecting with a child through your music. Thanks for sharing that. 

[RB22]

Loved2much,

  I loved reading the story of your young friend.

He wasn't good at music, but he never gave up his passion for music.  He was better at music than fitting in a class situation. 

Helping him find a way to express and enjoy his passion... awesome!

[RB22]

If we don't teach kids how to handle small rejections how will they handle the big rejections.

A former friend has a son the same age as my older D's.  He was in my D's kindergarten class....a few weeks after school started, my D came home asking does she HAVE to play with C?  I asked why she asked me this?  her answer was he wanted to play with her on the playground and she wanted to play with her friends.  Then she didn't have to play with him, if she didn't want to.  OK.

A couple of weeks go by... and she doesn't want to go to school.. not sick.. etc.  Finally get out of her that C keeps trying to take her away from her friends.  Eventually it comes down to.. her explaining that C has decided she is HIS girlfriend and she is to play with him and give him kisses.  So when she doesn't cooperate, he tries to pull her into the bushes for a kiss. 

I marched my very unhappy arse to the teacher... who thought it was CUTE!... But told me (and my D, who I brought with me) that anytime she didn't want to play with him and he got mad.. to come get the teacher.  crisis averted.. not so.

My D followed the teacher protocols.. and nothing happened.  So I march my even more unhappy arse to the principals office.. and had a conference with her.   Again nothing came of it. 

after a few more school visits... I finally wanted a meeting between the other kids parents and my daughters parents and the school admin.  We got it.... and I got an awakening.  HIS parents thought NOTHING of this kid trying to pull my d into the bushes to kiss.  Dad was sitting there like a peacock, his kid was going after "HIS woman".  Those were the words he used.

I lost it... and asked the principal "Tell me so I can explain to  my daughter  how many times does she have to say "NO"  before it sticks.   Because I was always taught, when a girl told a boy "no"  THAT should be respected." 

Principal went ashen... and called the kids in.. told the boy this behavior was to stop... and apologized to my D.   She dealt with the other parents.... (this ruined my friendship with mom) and apologized to me.  Her D had been date raped at college and her D kept telling her attacker 'no'.  The guy never served time and her D was made out to be the one who was wrong.  This situation got her thinking about how her D's attacker might have been in kindergarten.

[Imogene]

Good for you, RB!  On a side note, my daughter is so frustrated this year because all the girls want to do is chase after boys and try to kiss them.  She has no interest in that and says she is tired to hearing from the boys, too, who attempt to get her to talk the girls out of chasing them.  I told her she is just going to have to wait it out, because soon the kids won't have any interest in each other (at least for a few years!), and that's when girls can really bond and become close friends.  I bet some of those boys enjoy this game but that others feel harassed and bothered by it.  And this is generally a school where kids are kind to each other, with few instances of bullying.  But is too bad we can't do a better job of teaching basic respect.

[daisyk9292]

Oh my goodness RB. I just simply can't imagine this happening! My D would be absolutely crazy if that happened to her! I made the big mistake of asking my D once, do you think so and so is cute? A boy on a TV show she likes. She just looked at me and said, "Yeah, I guess"

I said, "Do you like boys?" She looked at me and said, "I like them, but I don't LIKE them, like them"

She said, "I don't ever want to be married or have any kids. I just want to be a marine biologist and help the dolphins, either that or a fashion designer"

WORKS FOR ME!!!!! LOL

[alatariel]

Loved2much- what a fantastic story!  I'm so glad you were able to make such a positive difference for that kid. 

RB- good for you for sticking to your point and making that point so well to the principal 

[CZBZ]

Lovely stories by lovely people. Thank you for sharing a little bit of your life with us. I believe just ONE person can make all the difference in someone's self-esteem, their sense of placement and worth in a huge old world that's becoming less communal than ever.  Our choices in life can make a positive difference in someone's life...in fact, just NOTICING someone else's existence can make a positive difference in their life. I really feel for all those 'lost' kids who never realized their value, and worth...their true self.  And i am glad to know that I talk everyday with people like yourselves because you do see others and you do seize the opportunity to act like ADULTS and take care of our younger generation instead of focusing entirely on yourself.

I really hate guys that are jealous of a child's need to be provided for and cared for by grownups. This was one of the hurdles in my own marriage when my husband cried over being neglected because I insisted on caring for my nephew (who has Aspergers). Shitomighty man, grow the F up! Yes. We got divorced after that conversation.

ANYWAY......I'm posting again on this thread because the past few days have turned up some interesting links on self-esteem. And I've been thinking about it more than usual, too. So with self-esteem being on my mind, I noticed something about my nephew and wanted to report-in to you good folks to see if you've noticed the same thing with people who really DO suffer from low self-esteem (I think, call me jaded, that a lot of ns say they have low self-esteem because it makes people try harder to please them and forgive them). My nephew has problems knowing what 'he' wants. What his preferences are. He will often choose to do something simply because he knows the other person prefers doing that.

So I ask him, "What do YOU want, Michael?" And he doesn't know. I've been working with him on identifying what he's feeling but since he has Aspergers, it's hard to know if this is a self-esteem problem or a neurological problem. His willingness to 'please' other people certainly makes it easier to get along with him yet I worry that he is overly focused on what other people want without defining what he wants. It's such a balance, isn't it?

So let me ask those of you who are interested in this topic. What do you think signs of low self-esteem look like? How does low self-esteem manifest itself in someone? From my own experience, my self-worth plummeted when my marriage ended and everything I used to measure my competence and 'place' in this world fell apart. I felt lower than a grease spot for awhile. But This Too Passeth-ed. If you were looking at a child and measuring whether or not they suffered from low self-esteem, what would the Red Flags be?


Hugs,
CZ

[alatariel]

I think one of the red flags for low self-esteem in kids is an inability to finish things, or often to even get started.  They're overwhelmed by thoughts of failure, so they lack the confidence to try things.  A feeling of futility and learned helplessness, "it won't be good enough, so why bother".

[daisyk9292]

I agree with alatariel. I believe my chronic low self esteem stems from childhood. I don't want to be one of those "Oh I had an awful childhood" people, but facts are facts.

Fact - I took dancing/gymnastics from 3yrs of age until 9, until it abruptly ended. I was good at both too. My mom's story is that I complained a lot about going, didn't like it and wanted to quit. This is a lie. My parents couldn't afford to pay the fees. I remember in 3rd grade my good friend asking me why I no longer was at dance class, and I told her "My parents say it's too expensive" when I got home later that day, my mom had found out, and I can't remember exactly what she said, but I took a good verbal lashing!

Fact - I wanted to play drums. Mom said "absolutely not" my second choice, flute, teacher said, "You're mouth isn't shaped right" I was told I would be learning the saxophone. I have nothing personal against the sax, but I didn't want to play it. I ended up quitting.

Fact - I was never really good at sports. I tried softball, I sucked, I  quit.

Fact - I started doing poorly in school in 3rd grade. I remember needing help and crying, but my parents refused to help me. I stopped trying all that hard myself, struggled all the way through high school. Was told I'm lazy etc. So never developed any good academic qualities.

So by adulthood, I had nothing I could claim as an interest or that made me feel was "my thing" I had friends who were cheerleaders, musicians, athletes, or very successful academically.

If I could have been supported and encouraged to have learned ANYTHING, that I also really enjoyed doing and was good at, I think I would have higher self esteem.

Nothing were I had to win any awards for, or publicly perform, or be the best at. Just something where I was able to say to myself, "Hey I can do this! I love doing it too"

Help kids find something, anything that they can feel confident doing and that they enjoy. Sports, music, arts and crafts, cooking, photography, gardening, writing, computers, ANYTHING. I believe this is really key.

 My daughter took dance and still takes gymnastics. She stinks at both! We kept her going in gymnastics because it helps strengthen her core which helps with fine motor skills. She knows she's not good and will never be in competition.

We started her on keyboard lessons a few years ago. This is something is IS very good at. She's very talented, I don't have to push her to practice, she LOVES sitting down and playing. She played on stage at her school's talent show last year. I know it made her feel good to show her particular talent.

So that's my experience and take on children and self esteem.

[Imogene]

This is a tough one.  I'm not sure if my daughter has low self-esteem.  She is very moody and sensitive by nature, and as such reacts to even the most subtle cue.  So it is easy for her to feel criticized and to tend toward perfectionism.  But she is quick to volunteer answers in class and does well in school and her extracurriculars, and I think she has a very good sense of her abilities--all of which correlate with higher self-esteem.  I'm sure that X and I both have harmed her self-esteem simply by having inappropriate expectations for her.  I thought she was gifted and suffered from a lack of intrinsic motivation for a long time, because when you put advanced material in front of her, she does it with the same ease as less advanced material.  I think that is more due to how her brain developed than anything else, though.  Not to say she isn't intelligent, but her emotional intelligence has lagged way behind, and she needs the emotional intelligence to do well in school, because it is so bound up in the elementary school curriculum.

Just thinking out loud.  To answer your question, low self esteem in kids shows in their "shyness" (unwillingness to perform certain tasks), procrastination, negative self talk, sadness about social failure, perceived or real.

My daughter's school does an excellent job of building esteem appropriately.  They have a full-time counselor who teaches a session to each class once every other week.  Her teachers use a reward system based on "catching the kids being good," which is age appropriate positive discipline that rewards self-reliance.  I could think of many other examples that are imbedded in the curriculum, but suffice it it say that emotional intelligence is extremely important to the principal there, and without sacrificing on academics, she really strives to make kids comfortable and loved.  Teachers do hug--how awful it would be if they couldn't.  Everybody knows the kids by name.  The lobby is full of animals that the kids help take care of; they paint murals for the buildings and help in the vegetable gardens.  I have seen very few vestiges of the self-esteem movement but a lot of positive role modeling for what it takes to be a good citizen.

Make kids feel competent.  Give them mostly just right tasks and a few challenges.  Be absolutely uncompromising on some values--you don't belittle others, you don't lie or cheat, etc.  That's how you build self-esteem, not by making kids think that everyone's a winner. 

Okay, off the box.  This is one of my favorite topics, though.

[alatariel]

My older son is very smart, but hasn't been doing his homework.  He has a bad case of what I like to call "7th grade disease".  This is the grade here where they stop holding the kids' hands so much.  The kids are expected to keep track of their own assignments for all their classes, and turn them in on time and up to standard.  And the sheer amount of homework increases significantly.  Consequently, a lot of kids fall behind on it, b/c they don't keep organized, don't get constant reminders, and the teachers don't do as much chasing them down looking for work that was due.  Add that to the beginning of the "hormone years" and the cocky "I don't have to do this b/c I already know this stuff" attitude that a lot of smart kids get, and you get the picture.

In my son's case, he also suffers from low self-esteem due to his own perfectionism.  So many academic things come easy to him that anything he can't do right off the bat frustrates him and he just gives up right away.  If he can't be perfect, he doesn't want to try.

So, with help from his former 3rd grade teacher (who was his favorite teacher ever) we concocted a scheme: she asked him to tutor one of her 3rd graders who is way behind the rest of her class.  This seems to be doing the trick.  It's boosting my son's self-esteem b/c he can feel genuinely competent helping the little girl, the girl loves the attention from an older kid, and my son is doing his homework while she works on hers.  And, he gets extra-credit for this, which helps him feel better about himself.

[CZBZ]

A new article on PsychologyToday: What Really Strengthens Self-Esteem by MARGARITA TARTAKOVSKY, M.S.

She also wrote Signs of Low Self-esteem "Wholesome self-esteem is the conviction that one is as worthwhile as anyone else, but not more so. On one hand, we feel a quiet gladness to be who we are and a sense of dignity that comes from realizing that we share what all humans possess — intrinsic worth. On the other hand, those with self-esteem remain humble, realizing that everyone has much to learn and that we are all really in the same boat."

[alatariel]

I saw a sign in the middle school where I subbed today that I liked, it said, "Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something". 

I like that message a lot better than "You are out of this world special".