What are the chances of THAT?

[CZBZ]

"Anyhow....so I sit down in my lowly chair of interrogation....and it doesn`t escape my notice that a halogen light bulb in the ceiling just happens to be directed right into my eyes...so I am ready for the full waterboarding experience.....and the Dreaded Job Centre Screen is powered up to display all the no jobs advertised this week....a sinister smile spreads across the face of my vengeful foe...." ~JennyWren

ROFLMAO!!! O my gosh, you've made my day a lot easier. Laughing keeps me sane. Maybe it's that way for everyone, especially when your life is a lemon and the bureaucrats insist on following their tried-and-true recipes for lemon-aid. LOL...Since my nephew has a 'disability', I get the honors of attending social services meetings with him and rare it is that the person assigned to his 'case', wants to know anything more than what's required on his/her checklist.

When one woman actually asked him questions requiring more than yes or no, we both said how "NICE" she was all the way back to our car which was parked forty miles away in the designated space for clients. ha! j'est kiddin', though I had to take off my shoes to make the trek and now I wear Nikes to every appointment. Just wanted to commiserate with you on 'the system' for which I feel slightly guilty but thank GOODNESS we even HAVE a 'human welfare' system for people who FALL Through the CRACKS. (He has Aspergers. He isn't even aware of all the swirling relational complications, the emotional nuances. Sometimes I think Aspergers can be a 'blessing'. ha!!)

I appreciated your complete history on the 'mad' girlfriend and am ONCE AGAIN, shocked at the similarities so many of us have in common when the X finds his or her match in a mentally disturbed soulmate. Need I say more? You can take pride in being the one who got left and that's pretty fair to say, I think! When my X was trying to 'save' his damsel in distress (who also insinuated she was being abused, sexually emotionally, etc.), the therapist said that the Strong One is the person who's left behind which didn't feel like an intelligent remark to me at all, since my knees were buckling over concerns about the future and our kids and our finances and our home and our extended family who-would-be-heartbroken.

I believe that narcissists are the easiest marks in the world if a woman cries 'rape' or 'abuse'. They cannot resist being the knight-in-shining-armor (feeling emasculated when the wife at home seems a little too competent and sane in comparison to the needy-greedy-OW). The 'other woman' in this type of triangle, might be even more interested in 'winning' against the wife than wining her new bed partner. My X's soulmate (i do believe they've married but nobody knows for sure), "NEEDED" him and I didn't need him and maybe most of you were told the same thing?? And like you, Jenny, he even suggested we put her up in the home library for the weekend rather than pay for a hotel since we were drawing from our 'joint money' at the time. 

"It's helped to realize that they need me to be the scapegoat for things to function in their relationship.  It's quite sick.  They cannot accept any responsibility for things falling apart with visitation.  As far as I can see, exN found someone who is also very interested in creating a facade of perfection." ~BlueSky

YOU've GOT IT! That is the whole key to staying sane----recognizing your role as the 'scapegoat' in the drama triangle. Whenever there is any friction between your X and his NewWife, all they have to do is point their attention your direction and voila, they've BONDED again. Since narcissists have difficulty (or incapable of) seeing resolving conflicts with themselves and others, the easy way out is Scapegoating someone else.

I also feel that in your case, BlueSky, your x-husbaNd likely met up with his counterpart---the borderline. Her desire to destroy the 'other woman/wife' is legion. Its the stuff movies are made of. Normal women do NOT act like that...they just do NOT. In her case, it sure seems to me that she figured out a way to have him ALL TO HERSELF. First---destroy the mother and then make visitation miserable, too. Then blame the mother for all of it. I am so sorry your've been treated so viciously, Bluesky. I  fear however, that your situation is more common than people want to know because it is so tempting for society to find a scapegoat: the scorned woman.  That is how much we WANT to believe our illusions (true love, soulmates, and all that narcissistic stuff nightmares are made of).


Hugs,
CZ

[JennyWren]

Imogene....I could happily stick a zillion stink-bombs through the letterbox of whatever Ministry has seen fit to make their (I am sure well-meaning) announcement about children`s rights to see fathers specifically NOW.

BigBird`s entire fantasy is based on the idea that I am the blocking force keeping his loving daughters from the waiting arms of him and mad -gf.

Mad-gf could not have kids of her own with her husband, despite repeated IVF. She had a phase of drug use and heavy drinking....and though it is none of my business....I hope that she and BigBird don`t try and have kids. To bring a little life into this mess would be just plain tragic.

It seems then that mediation is his goal.

Mediation with who? Because I don`t care how often the girls see him if they want to. This has nothing to do with me. I don`t stop them from seeing him. I don`t bad-mouth him to them (though they do to me). I WON`T make them see him.

What is the point in mediation with me?

For sure I will NEVER sit in a room with that man and a mediator. Though I will happily speak to one on my own. And explain precisely why.

The girls for their part are both articulate and clear in their feelings towards their father should the process ask for their input.

I am so sick of BigBird right at this very moment. I hope he gets stuck in the snow in his stupid car like he does EVERY year because he is so stupid. And he never takes a shovel because he is so arrogant. I hope he has to trek for miles across the frozen wastes and falls down a crevice and gets eaten by ravenous rats with stinky breath.

[JennyWren]

My X's soulmate (i do believe they've married but nobody knows for sure), "NEEDED" him and I didn't need him and maybe most of you were told the same thing??

I never looked at it like that...but absolutely YES. BigBird loved the neediness. Made him feel special and indespensible. Yuck.

I wish I could just bow out of this little drama they are acting in. But I can`t. They need their villain.

[CZBZ]

I dunno Jenny...these narcissistic men seem to NEED to be NEEDED. Which puts a normal woman in an impossible bind because the more comptent/mature you become, the more of a threat you are to their retarded immaturity. It's like they suddenly see you as the dominatrix although it's the borderline girlfriend who's wearing leather. She cracks the whip and they jump.

Your X got himself 'in' over his head and I applaud you for holding him accountable. The easy way out, what family members want to believe that it's either Jenny or the Girlfriend who ruined his life. For some damn reason, we treat these men like little boys who need to be coddled. you've done really well holding on to your sanity and placing responsibility exactly where it belonged.

(He made the choice  to "rescue" her when she told him about her 'sex life'. What a grown man would have done were he to be told a similar thing, is encourage her to get treatment, file charges against her husband,  or refer her to his wife who was much better with that sort of thing.  His boundaries were just as lousy as hers when she started talking about her married sex life. (titillating to him though, to be sure)

He certainly would not consider putting himself in the role of 'potential rapist' in case the madwoman decided HE has taken advantage of her.

I figure your X was thinking his brain cells silly trying to find his way out of the Web they wove together. Ten cents says he's already considered how far she would go to get what she wanted. (My x's soulmate threatened sexual harassment charges if he didn't leave his family. I know that for a certainty.) In a way, these kNights-N-shiNing-armor make the best of it which means: rather than blaming themselves, they blame their wife and unfortunately---society backs up their insanity!! It can be really hard getting them to break through their narcissism when society finds no fault with leaving a family for a soulmate.

(I also think your X will demand his legal rights to see his children as a way to prove his innocence...Ns are hellbent to prove to everyone (but mostly themselves) that they are good guys. They will try to justify EVERY lousy thing they've done. If a N truly loved his/her kids, they'd never dump-and-run for what they perceived to be 'true love'.

Our world is rife with sentimental illusions.


CZ
 

[RB22]

I got the 'she needs me and you don't' speech.  along with the ILYBINILWY speech, and the 'soulmate' talk. 

The d&d leads to villification, and if the New squeeze is a crazy... she will go to extra lengths to prove her love to him... and those extra lengths will be at your expense.  And in some cases, she will want him to prove his undying love to her  - at your expense.   

The only way to win..  pay them no attention and carry on.   It isn't easy, in fact when she is yelling things across the street as you pass by... in fact it is almost impossible NOT to say something.  But THINK about this...

If you were an innocent bystander going down the same street, if you saw someone yelling stuff to the person on the other side of the street, who would you rather walk by...a person walking shaking their head at the crazy on the other side, or someone yelling back at the person who started the yelling.    Now who would you rather be... the one thought sane (and picked on, who gains a smile and a nod from a stranger)  or the one the stranger avoids.

By not confronting them (when they get like this) it's as If the rest of my community thinks my X married the crazy. He has done all he can to tell everyone I am the crazy one and his lovely bride is the bees knees.  But her (and His) actions prove to the bystanders  that the crazy one is yelling and the sane one is just walking by minding her own business....when she is attacked.   

Oh and the added benefit.. the more I ignored the crazy...the crazier she got.  It was almost as if she NEEDED to matter to ME.  It was more important to her that I was upset than anything to do with him.  I don't get that... but then to get that I would need to be in her head... and she is scary... not going into that crazy redheads thoughts.

It messes with X's public image.... it gives his public the truth.  I don't think X sees it... but then again he has a blind eye when it comes to NW.

[JennyWren]

CZ....there`s a lot in your post that clarifies and crystallises my thoughts.

The gf did (I think) threaten BigBird in some way....because he did once carefully explain to me that emails could easily be forged....and that if I got post from Australia....a huge fat envelope....then I should bear in mind that gf was smart....and very much capable of stitching him up.

I still have printed copies of three of her emails to him that BigBird printed out to show me. The language is like a badly written cheap romance fiction. "I can feel your thoughts from 2000 miles away"  I cant quite believe that he showed them to me. He doesn`t know I still have them.

And your last point is the very root of the matter....which I would do well to remember as the days pass. If he loved his daughters so much....and if he spent so much time insisting I was a wonderful person...and only red hot passion was missing....then he left his kids for a more exciting sex life. That`s the bottom line.

The d&d leads to vilification, and if the New squeeze is a crazy... she will go to extra lengths to prove her love to him... and those extra lengths will be at your expense.  And in some cases, she will want him to prove his undying love to her  - at your expense.   

I think this is indeed the case here too. It is another thing that...although I can understand with my head....it means nothing to my heart. I can`t relate to it. But I do believe it. It is breathtakingly weird isn`t it?

I completely subscribe to the idea of rising above any provocation....not sinking to her level. I was walking through town the other day....when into my head popped the scenario of mad-gf suddenly appearing before me....a blaze of furious flying ginger hair....and spouting venomous fury over victimising her beloved BigBird. Although in my mind`s eye...the temptation to deck her with a carefully aimed right hook is IMMENSE!...I did settle on the idea that the way to annoy her most would be a total disinterest. So I am pre-planning my most nonchalant look.

You know what? They`re all out there aren`t they? It`s bizarre. So bizarre.

[BlueSky]

I thought it interesting that when nw figured out I was reading her blog (I was going to ask for full custody and was reading it to find out what they were doing) she had a huge fit.  Said she was going to make her blog private and that people would have to be on her list to read it.  Then she found out that she could only have 100 people - so she decided against it.  She loved having more than 100 people visiting her blog.  She then put up pics from their wedding and explained that it was to ward off me. 

I kind of wonder if one reason she kept her blog public was because she thought it was a way to get at me.  I haven't gone to her blog and read it in 3 years.  Interesting to think she may still be tying herself in knots to make her life look perfect in case I'm still reading.  I think she may be an N herself.

I have a blog I sometimes write on and I did an experiment one day - I posted the one pic I had from the wedding (forgot I had it).  The number of hits on my blog went up dramatically.  I think she or her friends are keeping an eye on me.

I really like the idea of staying calm and ignoring the weirdness - it would make them look crazier!

[MoreMyself]

Reading all the posts a thought popped into my mind.  It might be worthless, in which case disregard.  Mad gf wants to be you.  She got the man, she got the sex, whatever.  Now all she has to do is become a better mother than you are.  In her mind it might be something she really believes she can do, win your daughters over and show herself to BigBird as a superior mother hen.

Could it be her almost completely behind this latest push to mediate and get more exposure to your daughters?  Because even the Hobbit listened when the counsellor told him that forcing our youngest to move into his bachelor pad was not good for our son.  Even the Hobbit, with his shrivelled peanut brain from too many years of clogging it with cholesterol laden Big Macs got that clear.  If he had forced the issue with our son then the future would be fraught with conflict and hostility.  He chose the path of least resistance and has just faded out of our lives instead. Is BB so stupid that he can't grasp that basic concept, that you can't force your children to love and respect you?

I have learned that a lot of second wives struggle to live up to what they think the first wife had.  Whether it be looks, or personality, career, or mothering skills.  They are curiously jealous of a woman who got left behind, afraid perhaps that one day their mask will fall off the their man will look at them and see them as an inferior replacement.  It makes no sense because we are the ones who got left and replaced, but nonetheless there seems to be insecurity in a lot of replacement wives.

[BlueSky]

Interesting thought....  I know in my case, nw was quite insecure and really seemed to have a hard time with the idea that several people in exN's extended family were still in contact with me and had positive feelings towards me.  I hadn't thought it possible she was jealous of me....still not so sure on that point.  But I do think insecurity may drive them quite a bit.  Maybe the thought is, "I've got to be better so he doesn't leave me like he left her."

[JennyWren]

ooo-er  There may well be an element of that.

BigBird helpfully told me what a WONDERFUL person mad-gf is...how everyone just adores her...which is why her friends supposedly refer to her as "Angel of the Earth"...and her email was "PrincessPrecious@whatever" Barf city or what?

He also told me how the girls would love her...because she is the kindest most loving warm person imaginable.

I did tell him in return that she sounded utterly insane to me. I guess that won`t have helped. 

She couldn`t have kids of her own. She will definitely want to more than fill my shoes. Be better than me. Bigbird told me many times how he wasn`t that keen on her to look at "You`re way better than what`s in Australia!" That`s SO romantic. They should have that message on Valentine Cards.

Sadly for her.....BigBird can not introduce her to the non-N faction of his family...because he told them she had nothing to do with the marriage breaking up...and he did nothing at all but a few catch-up-with-old-friend messages....and I was just making a fuss. The non-Ns are good people...I still see them...and they are kind, understanding and supportive of me....and "disappointed" in him. She will not find it easy to win places in hearts there. And Bigbird always liked when his people loved me.

NMiL hated every fibre of my being and will be having a field day. Mad-gf will undoubtedly be "in" there....and wanting to prove that all the problems were ME. GoldenBoy and his wife are an unknown. After two decades...I had made inroads there. But I think it would be easy for mad-gf to dazzle those away with her love and support for little brother BigBird.....and declaring how wonderful they all are.

She may well be feeling terribly insecure. Clearly she is not a particularly grounded person...to say the least.

Furthermore...BigBird ALWAYS....always always always REPEATEDLY said he could never understand people who started relationships while they were with another person...because they should always be wondering if the person would do the same to them later on. Er...BigBird....mad-gf was MARRIED. As were you. Tosser.

There is an added dimension here. When ickle BigBird was 15....and his brothers were 18 and 21...NMiL DID alienate them from their father who had left. She forbade them to see him. And they obeyed.

BigBird is convinced he is in the role of his non-N father. HOWEVER...the father (being non-N....and desperately hurt and miserable after a long marriage with a nasty N)...stepped back completely and waited. He moved abroad. He did not push his sons. I think the delusional BigBird must know in his teny-weeny plastic heart that that is the way to go. I personally believe that would bear him fruit.

But he is very silly...and easily lead. And if mad-gf can not take the tears...if the need to be marvelous saviour is great...it gives her a project.

When it makes matters worse...and it will be clear even to the stupidest of birds it has....she will be in the dog house. Heaven only knows where it goes from there.

When BigBird tried to get me to sign a "legal" document his NBrother wrote about how if he left he was NOT abandoning the girls....he later ACTUALLY said he was sorry for doing such a silly thing....his BROTHER MADE HIM.

What a total utter twonk.

[RB22]

Reading all the posts a thought popped into my mind.  It might be worthless, in which case disregard.  Mad gf wants to be you.  She got the man, she got the sex, whatever.  Now all she has to do is become a better mother than you are.  In her mind it might be something she really believes she can do, win your daughters over and show herself to BigBird as a superior mother hen.
I have learned that a lot of second wives struggle to live up to what they think the first wife had.  Whether it be looks, or personality, career, or mothering skills.  They are curiously jealous of a woman who got left behind, afraid perhaps that one day their mask will fall off the their man will look at them and see them as an inferior replacement.  It makes no sense because we are the ones who got left and replaced, but nonetheless there seems to be insecurity in a lot of replacement wives.

\

Interesting thought....  I know in my case, nw was quite insecure and really seemed to have a hard time with the idea that several people in exN's extended family were still in contact with me and had positive feelings towards me.  I hadn't thought it possible she was jealous of me....still not so sure on that point.  But I do think insecurity may drive them quite a bit.  Maybe the thought is, "I've got to be better so he doesn't leave me like he left her."

Above are my theories for why NW is the way she is toward me.  I was friends with XMIL and XFIL, till X made it very clear to them that if they had contact with me - he would have NO Contact wtih them! He let them know that by his actions toward his beloved sister.  She is my BF, we grew close in our relationship during our marriage.  She refused to give up on our friendship, so he gave up his sister.  Sister comes to visit, and he doesn't even make the effort to extend an invitation to stay at his house.  I am her back up plan... after him.   For the last few years, she has stayed with me and her parents, heck even MY mother one year to keep his anger toward her down.  Then she stopped pretzelling herself for him and we now enjoy our friendship again. 

After 8 years of us being divorced and X being married to NW this sort of stuff would be in the past.  But it isn't.   

Example, Last January X, NW and I were at the same sporting event for D.  I went for a trip to the ladies room and while washing my hands I look up and in the mirror reflection NW is closing the door to the stall behind me and sticks her tongue out at me!  It about sums up how she feels about me.

Side note, I have been dating a guy for the last several years. He has an X wife (no kids)  up until recently they were employed by the same employer-different (nearby) locations, and a lot of people in common.  I would never dream of treating her this way.   I keep that in mind when I see some of the stuff that the New spouse does, And I do NOT consider myself a secure person.  I find this stuff strange.... really strange. 

I should NOT matter to NW.  That is how I feel.

[alatariel]

Don't forget that the N will sense and exploit mad GF's insecurity about you.  The N probably holds things about you over her head.  "Jenny always made the most wonderful lasagna, too bad nobody can ever duplicate her recipe", and similar statements that leave her head spinning.  Maybe he even keeps family pics of you all, with some lame excuse like, "this is my favorite pic of the girls, and, after all, she IS their mother".

[CZBZ]

"Angel of the Earth...Clearly she is not a particularly grounded person...to say the least. " ~JW

I have been told that my X's new "Angel of the Earth" is kind, lovable, friendly to a fault, and never counters my X, even when he is ranting himself into a coronary over global conspiracy theories. As my kids have told me, "Mom, you used to take Dad on when he ranted like a mad man." 

Which was reassuring since hindsight + recovery forums can make us feel as though we must have been doormats to have stayed with these   

When we are not grounded in reality and morally anchored to principles and values, we may look like angels to some people, but we're devils in disguise. I dunno where that came from. LOLLOL... But basically, I think the more grounded in reality we are, the more angelic we become.

I will think about what i just wrote...ha...cuz sometimes things just pop out of nowhere when we're writing!


Hugs,
CZ

[JennyWren]

It`s an interesting...if a little "Twighlight Zone"-ish...dynamic...the N and NW relationship.

He needs to be needed.....and delights in the supply.

She needs him...and will do whatever it takes to mirror for him.

In this curious ballet...NOTHING is real. And yet it is trumpeted throughout the land as True Love....unique and written in the stars.

Ability to not argue of course...from all these Angels of the Earth...is very highly prized. And I failed dismally on that score.

I was not so much an Angel of the Earth.....as a Big Mouth at the Kitchen Sink.

[MoreMyself]

Example, Last January X, NW and I were at the same sporting event for D.  I went for a trip to the ladies room and while washing my hands I look up and in the mirror reflection NW is closing the door to the stall behind me and sticks her tongue out at me!  It about sums up how she feels about me.

X married a ten year old!  Is that legal where you live?

Seriously, who does that except someone who is completely immature.  And of course the N.  The Hobbit used to do a modified tongue routine where he'd stick out the tip of his tongue them make a smirky little face and wobble to and fro.  And you wonder why I call him the Hobbit?

As for True Love, excuse me while I go and throw up in my compost bin.  There should be a required high school course called "True Love is Only Hormones".  We get wired to reproduce at as young an age as possible and our screwed up society has decided to throw a blanket over that to hide it, embroidered with hearts and arrows, and call it lurv, lurv, lurv.  I wish somebody had told me to forget about True Love and Soul Mates and just pick a partner who was kind and considerate and compassionate (and not always talking about himself).

[CZBZ]

"As for True Love, excuse me while I go and throw up in my compost bin.  There should be a required high school course called "True Love is Only Hormones".  We get wired to reproduce at as young an age as possible and our screwed up society has decided to throw a blanket over that to hide it, embroidered with hearts and arrows, and call it lurv, lurv, lurv.  I wish somebody had told me to forget about True Love and Soul Mates and just pick a partner who was kind and considerate and compassionate (and not always talking about himself)."

Hahaha!!!!!!!

CZ
 

[JennyWren]

I had some perplexing "chats" with BigBird on the subject of LOVE over the years.

It seems to me....when processing all his bizarre little statements....from "You don`t get jealous when I talk about other women...therefore you don`t love me"...to...."The electricity has gone".....to...."It`s your job to make me happy"....the impression of what LOVE is to him is quite unfathomable.

It is a large part ownership and possession. Some element seems to be pride in having a partner he perceives others envy. Partly somebody to make you feel important and needed.

I remember during one conversation...after we`d been married ten years or so....talking to him about how love changes over time....and becomes something deeper and more profound. The trust (oh dear!!!  ) that develops. The shared experiences. Blah de blah. He STARED at me open mouthed. You could have driven a steam train round his lower jaw and he wouldn`t have noticed.

Then he made some speech about fireworks and sex...and it became clear we were approaching the subject from ever-so-slightly different angles!

The Disney/Hollywood image of True Love has much to answer for. I don`t know if anyone ever watched the film "The Notebook"....but that is BigBird and mad-gfs Special Film. The plot entails some silly girl finding her True Love as a teenager...and inevitably jumping about in the barn with him...and they weren`t playing hopscotch if you know what I mean....but then Bad Nasty Parents say Lover Boy is not good enough for her and she marries some other poor bazturd....who...by the end of the film she has dumped like a hot potato to Be with True Love

BigBird watched this film while he was cyber-dating mad-gf. He cried and sobbed and carried on...so moving did he find it. And now I know why.

[notakennedy]

JW, my immediate reaction to the job on offer was one of true karma in action, if only it didn't pose such difficulties as disguises and possible impending litigation for perverting the course of N-justice ... but wouldn't it have been FUN to somehow hit the delete button or accidentally tripping with the BB Goes Mad in OZ files whilst passing the shredding machine, minutes before the next hearing was about to be called, necessitating much more frantic research from the mad GF in order to put their whole sad and distorted case together in the five minutes before the judge said, well if you can't present your case, I hold you in contempt of court and ban the both of you to ... let's say .... Darwin (with apologies to anyone who lives in Darwin, including my youngest brother .. sorry, bro ....) where they might just be washed into the mouths of waiting crocs in the next hurricane.  And I've gone too far!! (again  )

[JennyWren]

You can never....ever go too far where Ns are concerned  But you have to watch out for Tango when crocs are involved. She is smitten. 

It would have been worth the prison sentence just to be sitting nonchalantly in BigBird`s lawyer`s front office thoroughly transfixed with the database...and with a wad of files marked "BigBird" under my left hand...on which I had scrawled huge male appendages with beards and silly hats....and the word "NOB"....and a hangman`s noose.

How many seconds before he turned ultra violet with rage and spontaneously combusted?

[Rosemary]