My PTSD is back - with a vengeance

[Dandelion]

Yeah...sucks...I had it leave while living with my husband and my family in law. Now that Husband is sick with depression there is no room for me in his life and he can't feel a thing, no love or anything and he doesn't need me, but his mom (!).
The whole family has turned their backs on me for setting my foot down and choosing me instead of staying with Husband. After trying to make him see that he was not well for several years, he got admitted to psych ward after I moved and is now out but in recovery and his empathy is gone. Through the last 2 months I have asked him "What do you need?" several times and he says "I need you to be here", but when I have booked tickets and am on my way, he changes his mind and needs his mom more or is too stressed. I can't help him.
My dad killed himself 3 months ago and last week I got a letter proving that it was not my blog about growing up with an N dad that made him take his life, he planned it for 2 years. In august he writes a last will letter, but never sends it - and he didn't know about my blog by then. So the horrible bitches who took care of him in the last 6 years WAS coached to tell the press that he killed himself because of my blog.
Moving has been hard too. As I am a psychotherapist, I can't take my clients with me 800 km away, so I have to start over building a new pratise - with zero money during a repression.

I have great friends here who support me and help me in every way, but it still isn't enough to keep me sound it seems.

Before I met my husband I had nightmares EVERY night, dreaming of murder, loss and fear. I have been jumpy and irritated all my life up until I started studying psychotherapy and "came home" to myself. I slept 4-5 hours most nights and woke up with a terrible feeling of something wrong.
And I'm back to that. Also being hauled over by other peoples emotions has been really bad these last few months - I can't seem to distinguish what's mine and what's not.
Of course I can't have clients for the time being, that would be unethical, so that doesn't really help my financial situation 
I never really thought about it, but I talked to a psychiatrist and he pointed out to me that my symptoms has been and are signs of some degree of PTSD.

It's unnerving - I feel stuck in my emotions and my fear and no tools from my education are helpful other than breathe deep and take long walks - but it's not enough. I talk to my friends about how I feel and what is going on and they are somewhat shocked that I manage to get out of bed every morning - and I agree - it's a miracle some mornings.

I have read several places that growing up with N's can do that to you and that EMDR should be really helpful. So last week I found an EMDR therapist and I am going to see her today. I actually feel excited.

Any of you have tried EMDR? What's your experience with it?

Hugs
Mette

[Chime]

   Hey there Mette

I am sorry about this turn in your emotions.  I remember how strong you were feeling just a little while ago.  I believe you'll get back there again in time. 
I was told I'm in trauma as well.  For different reasons, but I can relate to what you're going through.  I haven't tried EMDR, but other people here have.  I am sure they'll jump in soon to tell you what they can.  (check out PearlsB4Swine's journal)
I might recommend that in the meantime, you read Trauma and Recovery by Judith Lewis Herman.  (and if you do read it, I'd love to chat with you about it)  I love your 'breathe and walk' comment.  It's so true.  I find it helps me to take inventory of the things that help me (or don't).  The things that helped me most were: my kids, my dogs, walks, tea, my job, my therapist, CZs blog, this forum, the book I mentioned above along with In Sheep's Clothing by George Simon and just about anything by Barbara Ehrenreich.  Keeping a more strict routine helped me too.  If I took away commitments, I'd stay in bed all day with dreaded spinning thoughts stuck in my head.   
I understand what you're going through. 
You hang in there {{{{Mette!}}}}
Here's a flower for you 
 
Chime

[CZBZ]

(((((Dandelion)))))

I can testify to the trauma of ending connections, severing relationships with people I had trusted. At the time of my divorce, whilst suffering ptsd and not knowing it, I had to be around people almost 100% of the time. I needed people to sit with me, sleep with me, eat meals with me (although I could not hold down solid food for weeks). I needed reassurance that I wasn't alone even though my head told me it was ridiculous. Thoughts like, "Get over yourself! You are a grown woman who has lived in foreign countries for heavens sakes!" I did a fine job humiliating myself for needing people the way I did, as if I were a newborn baby who couldn't sooth herself in the crib. If you are criticizing yourself like this, at least you know you aren't alone. I am not a wimp but ptsd shook me to the core of my very being...back to pre-cognitive feelings and it was terrifying.

I did not do EMDR because I did not know about EMDR. Several forum members have reported positive results from professional EMDR, practiced by a qualified therapist. I would love to follow your story as you participate in EMDR sessions, if you are inclined to write about it.

I think the most helpful thing for me was being around other people. That included hanging out on the message board for hours and hours at a time. Or just having the window open. It was a touchstone for me...a way to feel safe and connected to people when family members could not be around.

I am quite independent. I need large amounts of alone time. I am always engaged in a creative project of some kind, requiring solitude. I was caught completely off-guard by my powerful drive to be with people during this period of recovery. I didn't know what was going on though...because I did not know how to use a computer and find out.  After six months, I was back on my feet. I'm sure this period in my life would have been shortened had I known about ptsd, message boards, emdr, and therapy.   

How'd therapy go today?


Hugs,
CZ
 

[Dandelion]

Thanks for replying <3

It was fine - just sort of a pre-meeting where we got to know each other. Sessions only last 45 minutes with psychologists here, so it was over really quick. She wanted to know my story and I was cheeky enough to ask her to read my book =P

I told her that I was impatient and she did some grounding exercises with me that really helped. So we have planned 3 sessions - one every monday for the next three weeks. She says that we have to know each other well, before engaging in EMDR. So I would love to hear from others, if this has been their experience as well

Tonight I had a meeting with an old aqauintince (sp?) of my dads - they always hated each other. He is one the most reknowned atrologists here and he offered to make me a horoscope for the rext few years - I said yes and told him that I was really mostly interested in the good stuff.

He was totally freaked out by my horoscope. He says I am a VERY rare person, my constallations are insanely good and the next three years - starting august this year should be filled with love and money. I should travel with my expertise - the planets are very positive on that now, so if anyone needs a speaker or teacher on self-esteem or emotional incest, let me know! =P

I kept thinking that he probably just wanted a roll in the hay. lol...somewhat suspicious for the time being...who can blame me! 

Do we have a specific forum for treatments or do I just post here?

hugs
Mette

[Chime]

did you check out Pearl's journal?
Chime

[Dandelion]

Now I have - thank you so much for pointing me in that direction. It sounds fantastic and I can't wait to get it going
I think "Desensitisation" is the key word for EMDR - which would be just lovely for me

I think of TFT and EFT when I read Perlz's journal - I have a friend who uses that and it involves both tapping and eye movements - maybe they are related, but it seems to work no matter what does the trick!

Mette

[Chime]

oh, good!
keep us posted if you would...
maybe start an EMDR thread?
hugs
Chime

[pearlsb4swine]

Hi Dandelion!  Just catching up here.  I have a bad head cold and so am a little behind.

I am very enthusiastic about EMDR.  It has helped me a lot.  I've done the eye movements and the tapping.  Both work for me.  The psychologist I work with does know me quite well, as he has seen me on and off for years.  I think what it's doing for me is about integration---letting me know on an emotional level what I already know on a cognitive level, if that makes sense.   

I am on  a leave from my job right now, and trying to spend some time focusing on myself and getting myself in better shape to deal with and perhaps even enjoy life.

I so relate to what CZ said--I spend a lot of time here.  A lot.  And it's not about the lurking.  It's about posting.  Lurking doesn't do it.  The actual writing, the exchange with others is what does it.  Healing is not a spectator sport.  You have to actually do it.   

You have done a heroic amount of work already Mette.  I hope the EMDR is the key for you that it's been for me, to bring you to the next step on your journey.

Pearls

[Dandelion]

Thank you Pearls   

[Proud2B]

Dandelion,
There are lots of good posts and advice here already, so I don't have much to add in that regards, other than to say when I read your post about needing people, it called to mind the old saying about when trouble strikes, men retreat to their caves.  Women go to the well.  I always interpreted the well as the place that women gather together. 

I also wonder that maybe in the depths of his depression, reaching out to him mom rather than his wife does make some kind of sense.  It's probably no reflection on you, just more of the mother/son dynamic.  My son has done the same thing - the last surgery he had he wanted me there rather than his wife, whom he loves dearly.  I was a little surprised.  When I asked him why he said, "Because you've never missed one yet" - ER visits, surgeries etc.           

No doubt growing up with an N parent would deeply wound a child.  To think that it wouldn't seems, well, absurd.  I am glad the EMDR is working for you.   

Proud2B

[Dandelion]

Sorry, no - Proud - in my world it does not make sense. Being a grown-up you nurture the relations you are in and you shift your priorities to the people you are creating a family with. You do NOT seek your mom over your wife - especially not when wife has been neglected for 3-4 years. You do not use your children as parents and you do not use parents as spouses.

It does not reflect on me - it reflects on him - and his mom, who obviously does not want him to grow up (and this is not ment as a subtle hint to you)
She married an autistic man and can't have a grown-up conversation with him. Thomas was ill as a teenager and his mother tended to him for a year and saved his life. So of course they are close - BUT - she uses him for adult conversation and he uses her as his primary relative and it is wrong on so many levels I cannot begin to describe it.

All my life I have chosen men who had something more important than me in their life; fishing, working, friends, sex - or mom. I didn't see that until 6 months ago - I thought this time I got it right - but I guess not. And no -  - I am not a primadonna who can't stand that her husband has things he wants for himself.  I encourage that, but it has to be within reason. One guy went fishing on the day of my mothers funeral - because it was the only weekend in a year where salmon could be caught in big numbers or something like that. That's what we're talking about - I am not some "You can't do your own thing"-b.i.t.c.h

Sorry went of a limb there - nothing to do with you, just hit a nerve there 

[Dandelion]

Ok...wow...I really got mad there...had to write again since it really hit me - thank you very much Proud!

My parents in law became me the family I always wanted for 8 years.
When I couldn't bear to live with Thomas anymore after having tried to get him in treatment for years and being neglected and rejected, I chose to move away. My MIL told me "If you move, you loose this whole family". Somehow I really didn't think she meant it, but it was true. I have called her and wished her merry xmas and she just blamed me for his depression and that he was in the psych ward. I have written his brothers and wished them merry xmas and they never returned it. So from one second to another I was an outcast because I dared draw a line, set boundaries and protect myself. Sounds really dysfunctional...

My anger is really sorrow. I am sad that I have lost what I thought was my family, a nest, warm love and healthy relations. I have lost my home, my family, my husband, my father, my practise - and to not loose me as well, I had to make that choice. I am crying  mourning the loss of my life as it was.

This is the same feeling as I had when I was standing next to my mom, tugging her sleeve, begging her to talk to me, see me and prioritize me, be with me, but she was too busy drinking beer and reading the paper. Every day. All day.

And yes. I DO have a fear inside me of being a dramaqueen, expecting people to always prioritize me, to be an N and demand attention - I can feel that - it scares the crap out of me. So I have work to do there - again. Have to find out how to hold on to the fact that it is ok for me to be prioritized, to be important, to be loved more than other women in that special mans life, special to someone, to be the secondmost important thing in a mans life. And if I believe it it does not make me an N, it makes me valuable - to me and to others.

Lol, I really know a lot about self-esteem - I have been fighting this battle for 25 years. Maybe it's time to write book no 2 - "How to keep your self-esteem in a relationship" 

Can't wait till monday - I hope we're gonna do EMDR so I can find out if it's good for me as well

Hugs to you all
Dandelion

[alatariel]

That's a hard one, Dandelion, for us ACONs to learn when it IS ok to expect someone to put us first.

Troll used to accuse me of being selfish and "weird" or "awkward" for expecting her to put me first on occasion.  Now, we weren't "in a relationship", but we were supposed to be FRIENDS.  And I know that, when I'm with a friend, I put them first.  I don't talk on the phone, I don't ignore them and talk to everyone else around me, I don't ditch them at a party and go off to pursue someone more interesting, I don't sit and play a video game while someone is at my house, nor do I watch TV and ask them to be quiet.

But, asking troll to extend these same courtesies to me was like asking fish to grow feathers and start living in trees.  I was accused of being selfish for asking.  And I believed her.  I questioned whether I was a selfish narcissist.  I thought I was asking for something unreasonable.  I assumed that anyone who had as many friends as she does would know about these things, and how ppl should act.

It wasn't until I recognized some of my own issues, that I realized that when I was with her, I was recreating my own childhood, in which the ppl around me treated me as a nuisance to be dealt with as quickly as possible so they could get on with their real lives.

And now my ex is implying that I'm too busy with my life to adequately deal with my son's homework issues, which is a nice example of projection, eh?

[Proud2B]

Dandelion,
I'm sorry to have set something off in you.  I was speaking more from a point of view of healthy relationships without knowing what your MIL had said., er, threatened.

I can soooo relate to feelings of abandonment and wanting desparately to be seen, heard, and nurtured just a tiny, tiny bit, and not getting it.

You're one heckuva strong woman to have survived so much loss.  You have us rooting for you.

Hang in there. 

(((((Hugs))))),
Proud2B

[Dandelion]

Dear Proud

Do not apologize for triggering me! It is MY feeling so it is MY responsibility
And being triggered on a forum like this were I can feel safe is a gift <3

[nomom4me]

Hi.  new here but wow, going through some of the exact same stuff.  I just started with an EMDR therapist, my mom is a classic N and has been telling relative to call me to tell me I should give her a "fresh start".  Fresh starts go sour quick if it's still the same old schtick.  My mother will not take any accountability for anything, she never asks questions, she just announces her preferences.  As a result, the woman only knows me as the extension of herself she wants me to be and really does not know me at all.

[JennyWren]

Hi nomom4me 

Sorry to hear about your NMom. And her attempts to use others to lure you in. You will find many similar experiences shared here....and I hope you will find all the insight here really revealing and helpful.
The lack of accountability you mention in your post is so impossible to deal with and get past. And yet they just don`t see it.

[Imogene]

Dandelion,
I have been reading your posts and listening, taking things in.  Only because you are a therapist do I say this to you--your moods have been very unstable, swinging from one extreme to the next, and I can only imagine the strength of the feelings underlying them.  It's clear that you are under a GREAT deal of stress, and look at the reasons: you told the truth about your father in a very public forum; he committed suicide; you became notorious for that; you just are completing a book; you have separated from your husband; he was institutionalized.  I mean, HOLY COW.  It must seem that every time you speak your truth the sky falls down.  I am glad you are seeking help for yourself and posting here.  I hope the EMDR gives you some peace.

[newglasses]

Hugs to you Dandelion,  My PTSD began to clear the instant I discovered NPD.  I'd had the PTSD RAGE, overreaction, nerves on the surface and actually raised my voice (never done before) kind of PTSD for three years but it wasn't until I googled "emotional abuse" and discovered NPD that all the pieces clicked in a matter of 20 minutes.  I had not had any idea what was wrong with me.  I knew I was furious, for good reasons, at my X, but didn't even realize the emotional, mental and verbal abuse I'd suffered.  So just the discovery allowed healing to begin.  That makes me useless at helping any of you that were so much smarter and figured out what was going on.  It wasn't gone instantly but I also started getting out in a "quality" way.  I started working as an unpaid "intern" one day a week at a friend's florist shop.  They were in financial straights and I was jobless anyway.  But it became a way to be with enjoyable people in a laid back atmosphere.  It also helped stir the creative side of me that had never found a "safe", positive reinforcemented outlet.   

Welcome nomom4me.  As I learn more about NPD from the wise ones here on WoN I've realized that my mom, if not a true N, was a little N-ish during my childhood.  She installed all the buttons needed to make me perfect N-supply.  Now the NXH still haunts my life but I'm the ONLY caretaker for elderly mom.  She's become totally N in old age.  So I'm going to have to start "dealing" with those issues soon.  We're building to critical mass. 
Feel free to share.

Thinking of you Dandelion,
newglasses

[nomom4me]

Dandelion, I have read a bunch of your posts and I see allot of the same issues I have in your posts.  My mom was a beauty in her youth, I was skinny and smart and capable in my 20's and she resented me for it. Maybe she still does, I never know what decade she is living in.  When I was 14 she told me my father took his own life, I had found him at 4 and tried to wake him up.  He was BP and overdosed, no one in my family talks about him.  When my mother told me she said she had never read the coroner report before, and just told me as she was dropping me off at my preppy private high school one day. My family all think I was too young to remember.  My mother has a monopoly on suffering and "did her best to protect" her kids.

I'm wondering, given your background why you chose EMDR?  Also, if it's not prying may I ask what the PTSD is from?  Even a general answer would help me, is it the specific event of your fathers death or more than that?  My boyfriend diagnosed my PTSD when I didn't want to leave the apt on september 11, I mean this past september - 10 years later.  I was worried I would faint, I fainted when it happened and it does seem silly now that I am writing it.  I guess I don't know what PTSD feels like or how EMDR works.  My dominant feelings these days are anger at my family, I think sometimes I get set off - early this week I saw a picture on a news site of the twin towers burning and I've been a little more sensitive since, is that PTSD? 

My acupuncturist and a massage therapist keep urging me to try EFT and somatic type therapies, anyone who touches my back and knows about those things can tell I am carrying allot of crap around with me.  A therapist with a full schedule suggested the EMDR therapist I saw this week, it was just a first meeting so I'm not sure what I am getting into yet, I'm concerned that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

[Dandelion]

@Imogene Thank you, I appriciate it so much. I see the mood changes very clearly - I am driven round on stage by others emotions and can't control it - it's hard to hold on. I am working on that - not trying to control it, but trying to give myself fysical and mental TLC. I wake up every morning with a horrible feeling in my gut. I know it is from nightmares and it's part of the PTSD - my hands are shaking and I can't seem to find peace. So right after breakfast I take a looong brisk walk and then meditate on something nice.
Accepting that I am in the shitter and there's no way to control it, is part of my process. I like like alcoholics, one day at a time and am thankful for the fact that my friends are close here where I live now and they back me up. Half of them are psychotherapists, so they are sometimes also harsh to me and tell me truths I need to hear - it's very valuable for me. (Like "Right now it sounds to me as you are defending Jellyfish. How do you feel that is necessary?" I love my friends 

I am in a life crisis, grief over my many losses fill me and I have to accept that. I wonder if it would be a good idea to reinstate the thing were you wear black for a period to signal your grief to your surroundings.

Thank you for seeing me 

[Dandelion]

@nomom4me

I chose EMDR because I have around 250 therapy hours behind me and there are some things the body remembers that you cannot talk your way out of.

I remember the little girl, just a few years old. When her father was around, she was jumpy, had a knot og fear in her gut and her shoulders were so high up, they were covering her ears. Despite this, no one saw me.

My body remembers these things, just as it remembers seeing women being beaten, sees his face, torn with demonic anger spit hateful words at anyone who crossed him (I have started giving speeches about my new book and I do this to exemplify, but I can't seem to get it as evil as him - I guess that's  really a good sign hehe)

I was angry like you once. I have talked my way out of that somewhere along the line. But we are different. So it might not be able for you to talk your way out of the anger. To me it was helpful to find out that the anger was really directed at me - for letting others let me down, for not kicking and screaming till someone saw me and understood that I needed help. Then I could let the anger go. It was a revelation for me - ever since, I can turn anger around and look at it as an emotion that is about me not being my best friend. If someone lets me down, I get angry if I let them. When someone lets me down, it's not because of me, it's because of them, so being angry at them is really pointless. This is one of the best lessons I have learned.

But some feelings can't be dealt with like that - they are in the body and I have to help me body let go of them. I have tight thies - always. Once, a gynecologist told me I could never have kids if I didn't loosen up. Very mean even though his intention was maybe good.'
This is something that my body remembers and I cannot talk it out, so I have to do something else, like EFT or EMDR. As a really experienced therapy-user I am open to any and all methods that people find useful. And when I googled ACON, tension and therapy I found EMDR.

My PTSD is reinacted - I actually think i have enough on my platter to get it today, but I know it's the old shite coming back because the feelings are exactly the same. I got PTSD from living in a warzone emotionally. I never knew when bombs would fall - my father would beat his GF up and go on a rage attack on someone who made a remark that didn't suit him.
I never knew how drunk my mother were - if we were going to have dinner or not. She would drive her car pissdrunk and I would sit in the back, clinging to one of the doors staring madly through the window to magically prevent an accident from happening. I never set my foot down. I never said no. I never asked for help. I never cried. A childhood in total chaos where grownup were mostly enemies of each other and where I never knew what would happen next.
That can give kids PTSD - and I got it. All  the symtoms were there.

Hugs

[nomom4me]

Dandelion, I totally feel you on growing up in chaos.  I remember taping a piece of paper over a hole my dad punched in a wall and trying to act casual about it. I know he hit my mom in front of me.  I don't think I blamed myself, I just wanted to get out.  I can remember running away and no one noticing, a little italian lady down the street was my best friend.  She has an adopted son who was incarcerated for abusing her recently, but she is always so positive when I see her.  So happy, we used to bake and garden and those are still ways I can self-sooth.  I guess I started making my own logical family very early. In my 30's I've been more isolated, it feels like it was so much easier to surround myself with people in my 20's and teens. 

My mom is always in lecture mode, she called me after I moved in with my boyfriend to give me a list of reasons why I should not start a garden on my terrace.  After going through various imagined scenarios (like dirt falling on a neighbor) she offered to buy me a lemon tree for my new home.  I thought about being stuck out on the terrace with her and getting a lecture on fertilizers, and I totally felt my jaw and neck start to tense up, these are migraine triggers so it's a priority in my healthcare that I not get into these situations. When my mom gets going on fertilizers, you would think she is asking me if I am on birth control.  But I'm not even sure my mom believes in birth control, she had 6 kids with a violent BP.

When my body relaxes (not very often) memories do come up but it's not the really ugly stuff, just being stuck in a car with her and trying not to hear her.  I have tense thighs too, I am not sure what thats from. 

Pardon my tangents, I've been medicating.  Back to PTSD and EMT/ EMDR, from my experience it's usually linked to a specific thought or behavior, I did a ETF type of treatment for smoking cessation.  I'm not sure how this type of therapy works on something more general, or long-term like years of shrill lectures.  It's all over my body, even as a kid in ballet I could never arch my neck back very far.  I've had xrays and acupuncture and there are massagers all over my apartment but I can't seem to control my shoulder stress, the same kind of shoulders up feeling you described.  It started happening in my first therapy session, I could see the therapist noticed that I was trying to massage it back down.  I try to track that pain and it's all over my back and the memories are just general childhood chaos, or financial stress.  I tell myself I am safe now but I don't think my body knows what that feels like.  I've had massage therapists notice it and say they can feel layers of emotional stuff and that it's safe to let it out but I don't know what safe or relaxed feels like.  The EFT I tried was the tapping type, I've seen videos on youtube of people doing like a full body shake that people do in seminar-type group settings.  I've tried to find comprehensive info online but it all seems directed at doing seminars, I'd really like to know what I am getting into before signing up for that.  I'm not sure how EMDR would work on so many memories, from my (limited) knowledge of these therapies it seems most effective with specific events.  Can it be focused on a person?  I know that sounds blame-ey but with setting boundaries I take accountability for my own actions, and what is most frustrating with my mother is that she won't. It seems like a tall order to fix that with some eye movements, I can see working out old memories but this is still happening.

Thanks for the info it helps to see that I'm not the only person carrying this stuff in my body.