Dear all,
Recently, Louise Gallagher (she will always be
Ellie to us) was asked to speak at TedxCalgary. Quite an honor, isn't it? She has grown from a confused and hurt woman to the wonderful speaker, author and confident woman she is today. I am inspired by her willingness to put her story in the public eye and risk pointing fingers, criticism, and blame. It's never easy to talk about the mistakes we made, especially in a society that idealizes perfection.
Her video is currently featured on
The WoN Connection. Be sure to take a few minutes and listen to what Ellie/Louise has to say about helping ourselves by helping others.
Ellie was an active member of WoN during the initial stages of her 'healing'. I wanted to feature some of her messages on a thread today because she mentions 'message boards' in her Ted Talk...how forums allowed her to
give and in so doing, restore a healthy love for herself
because of her service. I found the following thread on Forgiveness, originally posted in 2005. Most of you will not know the members posting on this thread (except for me of course. I'm kinda like a comfy old sofa you can't bear to get rid of).
This thread seemed most pertinent to our current discussions about narcissistic mothers.
I hope you enjoy this thread and her video on
The WoN Connection.If you do not want to read this whole thread but would like to comment on Ellie/Louise's video, please feel free to do that! I'm sure she'd love to hear what WoN members had to say about her 'talk'.
Hugs all,
CZ
On Forgiveness and Trust
by Ellie (Louise Gallagher)
Originally posted in 2005
From: Ellie50301 (Original Message) Sent: 9/19/2005 9:12 PM When first I got my life back I knew that to be forgiven by my daughters, I needed first to forgive myself. How could I ask them to forgive me if I felt I was unworthy of my own forgiveness? And so, I chose forgiveness. To forgive myself I had to give up blaming, shaming, denigrating myself. I had to lovingly embrace the wounded, battered woman I was and give her space to breathe and time to heal. Forgiveness.
It was the first step.
Trust was next.
Coming through that time and space where up was down and down was inside out, I didn't trust myself to know what side of the street I was on, let alone my name or if I could trust someone else to remember it -- if I trusted them enough to tell them. It wasn't that I didn't trust the world, it's that I didn't trust myself in this world. How could I trust myself to be conscious, to know what I was doing when what I had been doing had caused such pain and grief in my life and the lives of those I loved?
I came to the forums. I posted and read and shared and cried and learned and grew. I kept posting and others kept posting back and supporting me and caring for me and accepting me, just the way I was. And so, I learned to trust. Myself and others. Here.
Recently, my mother pulled one of her all too familiar dramas that had me questioning myself, my sanity, my ability to be a loving daughter. My daughters and I debated at length about what to do. Her birthday was coming. She was expecting us to be there. They decided to go. I continued to deliberate. I came here. I shared. I sought your input. I chose to go.
I wrote to tell her my decision. I told her that 'if my daughters can forgive you then I can learn from them.'
My mother is a victim. She has lived her life pinioned to the scabbard of her right to claim her victim-hood without interference from those who would have her claim her power. To my mother, I am a threat. She doesn't seek my forgiveness. She wants my collusion in honouring the sacredness of her victim's place.
And therein is the truth for me.
I can forgive the P for what he did. I can forgive my mother, just as my daughters forgave me. The difference is, trust.
Forgiveness helps me. It washes away the anger, freeing me to move with grace and dignity through my life. When I say, 'I forgive you', I am not saying, 'I trust you'. I'm simply stating my choice to do what is loving and caring for me. To live unencumbered of the anger and regret I feel when I carry unforgiveness in my heart.
Reciprocity is not necessary for me to be forgiving or forgiven, but when I honour my daughters’ forgiveness, I pay tribute to their gift by being all that I am meant to be in freedom. And thus, I demonstrate my trustworthiness in every action, deed and word by staying true to who I am. By being congruent, authentic, empowered, alive.
Trust requires reciprocity. I trust myself based on my values, my principles, my integrity, my honesty, my truth. I choose to trust another as long as my values, principles, integrity, honesty and truth are not compromised. I trusted the P and ended up stuffing compromise after compromise into my values to try to force-fit the unacceptable into my life.
With my mother, there is no trust. She does not trust me to honour her victim’s role. And I do not trust her to turn up without playing the victim. It is not that I do not love her. It is that I do not trust her and I do not trust myself around her.
I am empowered when I trust my instincts, my knowledge, my 'knowing'. I am empowered when I trust myself to turn up for me, in all my beauty, warts and all, without fear that I will be abused.
This latest escapade with my mother taught me that it's time to quit putting myself in places where I need to forgive another for being who they are.
Only I can keep myself from being abused by acknowledging, I do not trust her. I can be loving, because being loving is a reflection of me. To give her my trust, however, would compromise my essence, it would undermine the value I place on my life. And I cannot do that. I cannot be abused unless I trust the untrustworthy. I cannot accept the unacceptable unless I choose to ignore the truth. And the truth is. I do not trust her.
Sad. But true.
Ellie
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 9/20/2005 5:13 PM Hi Ellie,
I hope you are doing well today. I posted to you this morning and then AOL ate it.
I'm very sorry you are going through a hard time with your mother and it is so natural that you should have pain around her. That you have the capacity to change is incredible considering all that you have been through.
You have demonstrated to your daughters that you are available to them.
It sounds like your mother is very fear based. She won't change--and if she has been awful to you I am not sure you OWE her forgiveness. At some point I realized that both my father and father did pretty crappy jobs and if I was their employer, they'da been fired.
We are so quick to toss the word "forgiveness" around which is a GREAT ideal. But it's also imperative that anger gets in the door before that. Anger lets me know I've had a boundary violation but I was raised to THINK that anger was almost a sin.
My mother will often say "oh, can't you just forgive me"--and what she means is, "can't you just forget that I was horrible to you".
The idea of forgiveness is cool if we have a person who does not perpetrate any further harms our way. Otherwise we run into a loop of "I'm sorry" and then "BONK" and then "I'm sorry" and then "BONK".
Forgiveness is for you. The battered dictionary says forgiveness is "to cease to feel resentment towards another". This can ONLY be accomplished via acceptance and NOT the idea that the other person is going to change and be nicer or whatever. Indifference is a form of forgiveness. So is NO CONTACT. It is saying that you are valuable enough to walk away.
You rock, Ellie and I just hope you know that your mom is a hopeless case IF she is still out there violating the right for your soul to feel free and open and loving.
I know you are good at all this stuff but your post made my heart break--maybe I am off base but I wanted to respond to let you know that I hear you and that you are okay the way that you are--k?
Love&Light, dg
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 9/20/2005 5:16 PM OMG, I love that I wrote "father and father"...YAY FREUD.
From: CZBZ Sent: 9/20/2005 5:43 PM "It is that I do not trust her and I do not trust myself around her."
Do you realize how much work we have to do on ourselves to even be aware we do not trust ourselves or the parent who is not trustworthy? Most of us laugh about regressing to the emotional maturity of a child at family reunions when all the siblings go unconscious during dinner. By going unconscious I mean, all the dynamics of childhood race for first place, pushing and shoving each other like little kids finally getting a change to escape. We go to the reunion about 5'8" tall and fifty years old; and we drive home about three feet tall and about...oh, I'd say about five or six years of age would be maximum.
Until we can grieve the unfinished business of those loss-years, we might act without thinking; or act in ways that are irrational since 'that was then and this is now.'
Having a parent who refuses to be responsible for the inevitable pain they inflict on their children, makes our process of self-healing much more difficult. Nothing has raised my consciousness of the human condition more, than reading story after story from people just like you. People who's parents are so self-absorbed they cannot get outside of themselves to connect intimately (and trustingly) with their children. How does one heal oneself from a loss as great as this?
Bringing your truth into consciousness is a painful process. Until we do however, we can't heal, nor accept, nor forgive ourselves. I read something the other day that seemed very insightful considering the simplicity of the quote. It went like this: "Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past." Maybe that is what we are doing when we accept the limitations of a parent and stand firmly in reality as it is, not as we would like it to be.
Bless your heart, Ellie. Never underestimate the amount of courage it takes to stare truth in the face without the comfort of illusions softening our angst temporarily while keeping us trapped in a samsara of grief and pain.
Love you so much,
CZBZ
From: Ellie50301 Sent: 9/20/2005 6:15 PM Ahhhh DG -- this is priceless -- I realized that both my father and father (and yes, I know, even in spite of Freud, that you meant 'mother') did pretty crappy jobs and if I was their employer, they'da been fired. Firing here would be a relief. My angst has come because she is back from visiting my sister on the coast and I haven't called. Now, there is that voice within saying -- you should call Ellie. But my mind says -- now wait a minute, she has clearly stated that contact with you causes her pain, so why not respect her wish for peace?
LOL -- I know her comment was made to be dramatic and to cause me to feel guilty -- but I'm tired of her games. My mother never, ever asks me to forgive her as in her mind, she has never ever done wrong. But, she will suggest we let bygones be bygones, but as you so clearly put it -- Bonk. I forgive you. Bonk. I forgive you is the pattern of our relationship (except it's me who's expected to apologize and it's me who keeps getting bonked.)
You heard my sorrow well, DG. And I appreciate your kind and comforting -- and insightful and kind of funny at times! words. I love the humour of Bonk. I'm sorry. I'll remind myself next time I'm speaking to her that what she's really saying is -- here's a Bonk, now say you're sorry for making me hurt you. -- then again. She has never ever believed she's hurt me -- even when she has!
LOL -- Thank you my friend. You have added light to a dark subject for me and eased the burden of wondering -- what do I do next. Sometimes, the safest and most healing action is to do nothing.
Love and light to you DG. You are luminous.
Thank you.
Ellie
From: Ellie50301 Sent: 9/20/2005 6:35 PM CZ! Do you realize that my mother is about the only person on this earth with whom I can regress to my 13 year old in minutes? LOL -- I have progressed from 5 to 13! Now that's progress.
I love the quote -- it is so true. Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past.
I was thinking about this after dropping my daughter at college this morning. She had asked me the other day about what I thought she should do about her job -- her program is very very busy. She's in drama and for the next 2 months will be spending about 60 hours a week at school. I asked if she had gone into her employer and shown them her schedule to see if they could accomodate her or not. "You don't understand." she yelled back. That conversation didn't go well.
It quickly digressed into how angry she is at me still about the P stuff. LOL -- I suggested she was on her own with dealing with that one as given the past two years and our journey together, any anger she was carrying was by choice and I was not responsible for her choices.
Which naturally led to my not trusting her to make good choices -- or so she said as she repeated, "You don't understand."
I looked at her and replied. "You're right honey. I don't understand what this conversation is about."
She gave me 'the look', got out of the car, threw an 'I love you' in the wind and walked into the school. And I went on with my day.
I got home later and she was already back. I went into her bedroom to say hello and she said. "There's something on the kitchen counter for you."
She had bought me a bottle of my favourite red wine.
I went back into her bedroom, where she sat with a sheepish smile on her face working at her computer. I put my arms around her shoulders and said, "I love you too honey. And I understand."
She smiled and said, "I know."
Between us, there was no need for apologies. No need for the conversation to go anywhere else but into the past.
With my mother. there is the need for her to constantly push my buttons to see if I will respond, and to play her victim's role so that I will turn in my supplicant role of apologizing just to get over whatever the angst was. That is our relationship -- and given my relationship with my daughters, I know I am capable of much, much more.
My mother is very jealous of my relationship with my daughters. She has often stated, "You never confide in me."
And she's right.
To confide in her would mean I trust her -- and I come back to where I was. I do not trust her. And I do not trust myself with her. Confiding in her would mean, leaving myself open to her attack. And when I am left open to her attack. I regress. It's instantaneous. It's automatic. It's debilitating.
Thank you CZ -- your response and DG's words have helped me understand why I am angst ridden about not calling her since her return trip.
I am worried about the pain I am causing her by not calling -- but it is not pain based on her realization that our relationship is a two-way street that is clogged by her refusal to accept the past was of both our making. Her pain is based on the belief that I am responsible for her pain because I am wrong to be who I am -- and someone has to be responsible for her pain, because she sure the heck can't be.
I am not wrong to be who I am. And I am right to want to be free of that samsara of grief and pain that comes when I pretend that she will honour my essence by treating me with the respect and courtesy I extend to her -- when I'm acting my age and not reacting from my past.
And -- do you by any chance have a picture of a samsara of grief and pain? Cause I'd sure like to see what that beast looks like. Bet it's one hearty meal!
Love you too so much CZ. Your place in my heart continues to fill me with joy.
Ellie
From: growingintomyself Sent: 9/20/2005 6:46 PM Ellie, I know your position My mother is a flaming N as is my sister. I will never trust them as it would be very bad for my health and I dont need that with the XHN to deal with. Do I forgive them?? Well its like the DR.Sam statement about dealing with an object. The N treats one like an object. Can you forgive your TV set? Thinking of this mental image has helped me.
I never had a mother or sister who I could confide in. I watch my sister skeeming to take over her money when she dies, yet they are joined at the hip. I had to deal with forgiveness with the XHN as well. I know that our religious teaching indicates to us that we should forgive but............I have to save myself first then... I can look to the needs of others without conpromising myself!.........I sounds like you have a good communication system with your children... They talk to you and you listen.....that is really great!.. I basically ignore my mother when she plays the victim role......my son .. answers her back in a respectful but reality confronting way. ......good luck (too bad that we couldnt pick our parents!).....growing
From: Ellie50301 Sent: 9/20/2005 8:55 PM lol Growing -- I'm sure my mother would say too bad she couldn't pick her daughter! Then again -- she's got two caring daughters .... and then she's got me.
I like the reality confronting way. My daughters are also respectful -- but my mother tends to target my youngest (17) which is what caused this latest kerfuffle.
Thanks Growing -- good luck to you too!.
I thanked my eldest daughter not long ago after she had spent 2 hours confiding with me. She asked me why? And I told her that all my life I had yearned for a relationship like this with my mother -- and now, I could let it go. I don't need it. I've created it with my daughters and what a wonderful blessing it is.
Love and hugs,
Ellie
From: Dirtgirl65 Sent: 9/20/2005 9:59 PM Hi Ellie,
I'm glad to read that your spirits are up. Never understimate the power of umbilical attachments.
You wrote about feeling angst over not calling your mother and also, guilt. Guilt is supposed to be anger at an unconscious demand. Your mother says one thing--but means another. Very confusing.
I wonder if you aren't really intuitive here. Are you? If your mother tends to not feel her own feelings--for whatever reason--likely you or another sibling got this gig.
It was really great to read about your very healthy rapport with your daughters.
Someone once told me: "It's never too late to have a happy childhood". I love that one.
I hope you find joy in your day.
Love&Light, dg
From: Cornfield10 Sent: 12/13/2005 5:29 AM I am beginning to understand this now. I know that my daughter does not accept my victimhood and wants me to leave, but she won't say that. I know that I do not want to leave a sick man, but I need to stay away from him, and he is in hovering mode now. I am writing this for my own benefit and no one will probably read it hidden here, but it is necessary that I write down the reality that I am facing. I am beginning to understand that I can forgive him and forget him most of the time. It is getting easier to forget the responsibility of caring for him. I need to put him in a mental "nursing home" because he will never get well. I must keep him from abusing me. I know that I must do certain things for sanity's sake. I am a responsible person. I can do this. Cornfield
From: RestNowChild Sent: 12/13/2005 7:49 AM Hi Corn,
I read what you wrote. I can appreciate what you are saying! I think the idea of putting him in a "mental nursing home" is a good idea, because you really are right, he will not get better. This was harder for me to accept than anything else. They don't get better. I think many of them even get worse every day.
Love and empathy,
Rest
From: i_was_blind Sent: 12/13/2005 10:30 AM This little nugget popped out at me from DirtGirl: "Forgiveness is for you. The battered dictionary says forgiveness is "to cease to feel resentment towards another". This can ONLY be accomplished via acceptance and NOT the idea that the other person is going to change and be nicer or whatever. Indifference is a form of forgiveness. So is NO CONTACT. It is saying that you are valuable enough to walk away. DirtGirl"
For me - for now, forgiveness is Acceptance/No Contact. Accepting things as they are and protecting myself from my xNH through NC.
Perhaps for you Corn it could be Acceptance/Indifference. Accepting things as they are and protecting yourself through indifference.
Blind
From: growingintomyself Sent: 12/13/2005 12:39 PM Ellie, I also have the victim mother who sets up very distructive senerios and then plays victim but....onto forgiveness. I think that forgiveness is finially letting go of the anger that is so distructive to us, but before getting rid of that anger , it takes a long time to admit that we are angry, deal with it, and then let it ago. Its not just about forgiving in my opinion. It took me a lifetime for my N sister and mother but I am letting it go. The XHN is past history(I was really surprised that he could still set me off but hey...its a process......I look at the pathetic XHN now. The man I tried to build my card house around and see who he really is....I am more than what he was or ever will be....you Ellie are here and striving to grow and understand.....that is what we are all about!!!!!!.....love and hugs.....growing
From: SadieWu Sent: 12/13/2005 1:52 PM I think one of the hardest, yet most empowering steps we take in the process of a relationship with any N is the day we face the truth that they aren't going to change, so if we want things to be different, we must take the steps to change ourselves. As for forgiveness, I think there is a huge difference between forgiving and forgetting. The Ns always play that guilt card of saying we should forget and move on, but I don't believe that's a true principle. Forgiving is the process of moving on without resentment and bitterness. That allows us to not stay stuck where we are. But if we allow ourselves to forget, I believe we run the risk of repeating our same mistakes, or being taken advantage of in the same ways, again and again. So forgive for yourself, but don't ever forget.
I was about 19 when I figured that out with my N father. It saved me in so many ways with my relationship with him. Unfortunately it didn't educate me on how to spot the N husband coming my way. But now that I am finally ready to leave this relationship, I have been able to draw upon many of the lessons learned in my youth to help me leave without so much bitterness and to forgive more readily. That has been a blessing to both myself and to my children.
Sometimes I think that Ns can't change because if they truly could ever grasp what they have done, what pain they have caused, and the repercussions of their actions, that would be such a living hell for them, and there's no way they could ever make it right. I think part of the sickness just won't let them ever face that truth. And so many of their supporters don't want to face the truth of what they are either, (i.e. siblings, parents, children, whatever). Sometimes that leaves those of us who are trying to face it in a very lonely place. I have never understood that, because it seems to me, from my experience, that the time I spent denying the truth was a much more painful way to live than once I began living with the reality. I don't understand how come people don't realize you can still love an N --- parent, sibling, spouse--- even when you realize what they are, and feel sorry for what they are, what they are doing to those around them, and choose to remove yourself from contact from them so that you don't have to be exposed to their abuse. You don''t have to hate them in order to do that. You can just make a healtier, happier choice once you realize what they are and that they aren't going to change. It's that emotional roller coaster of hoping, hurting, and getting stomped on that's hard---not reality.
So much for my two bits.
Sadie
From: growingintomyself Sent: 12/13/2005 7:48 PM Sadie, I found that your "two bits" are profound. It is amazing about how an N can tell us that "that was in the past" and we should just forget about it Hah! They can do this cause they are morphs. They will morph into anything that they think will bring them a good N source. (N/P) That's how we are confused and fooled. But...no more for me!!! I have a very suave XHN but I can't let my guard down one second.
This man almost strangled me and showed not one bit of emotion. I was shaking when I called a womans abuse hotline. He was more concerned about his image and who I would tell. I told the world. I am still holding out on his main job . How can I forget......... but I can forgive. First I had to forgive myself for feeling like I did something wrong in divorcing the N while my N mother told me that I should have done something (then I had to deal with N mother and N sister!) When I stumbled onto the N world , I was afraid of Ns I dated an N but I dumped him thanks to many supportive people like CZ who taught me to read between the lines.
Do I forgive him? I really have to to move on. I let go of the anger and I let go of the rage. Once I do this, I dont see the paper dragon or the cardboard man. I see a pathetic little man with no empathy and a superficial charm which I can now see through. I am now beyond being intimidated by the N........but then I become a threat to him and I do watch my back!!! We are all getting there...love and light ....growing
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Topic: Louise Gallagher: Lessons in Love: How Volunteering Save My Life (Read 90 times)
